So not a whole lot of surprises but really enjoyable nonetheless.
So...RIP Grant Ward? It certainly looked like he was dead, but I could maybe see them revealing that the parasite brought him back or kept him alive, or that there's otherwise still at least some of the real Ward there, and have him basically reassert himself after the parasite is gone.
On the other hand, I've felt for a while that there's a good chance that Season 3 would be Ward's swan song, so I could see that being it for him and then Brett Dalton leaving the show after this season. For now I'm assuming Ward is dead. And I kind of hope there's not much of a time skip when we return because I think it would be a shame to miss seeing everyone's immediate reactions to find out about his death.
One nice surprise: Joey did not die. At first I thought he might actually take a bullet for Daisy, and then when got all excited about seemingly being bulletproof I was like "No don't say that you're going to suddenly get killed now!" So it's nice that that didn't happen.
I'm sure something is going to be left..
. Will's memories were still there to remember fitz and the entitiy came out and said will died protecting gemma, Ward may be 'dead' from a physical standpoint and I can see him start mortifing or something as time goes on, but hes probably going to be mentally at least somewhat there. Ward without a personality isnt really worth the paycheck cause it could have been any random marine that got taken and returned.
whatever it was had time to get from Crispy McNoLongerUseful to DeadWard, revive as him, and make it to the portal in time, given that Fitz was quite clear on the "MARINES, WE ARE LEAVING" aspect of time sensitivity and Coulson taking the time to leisurely finish off Ward.
Maybe that slug thing is fast and having a broken rib cage didn't slow down ZombieWard much, but from the timing on the show we're still talking like a minute or two tops, presumably less.
Didn't Daisy slump against Mac, possibly passing out? I wasn't under the impression she was sustaining the portal at the time.
But that's simply nitpicking, and didn't detract from my appreciation of what happened at all.
That was my interpretation. They wisely didn't show the actual details of that event, so there's just enough logical wiggle room for the viewer to make up something superficially plausible.
The show is usually pretty good at the use of the tactical hand wave.
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kaceypwe stayed bright as lightningwe sang loud as thunderRegistered Userregular
So not a whole lot of surprises but really enjoyable nonetheless.
So...RIP Grant Ward? It certainly looked like he was dead, but I could maybe see them revealing that the parasite brought him back or kept him alive, or that there's otherwise still at least some of the real Ward there, and have him basically reassert himself after the parasite is gone.
On the other hand, I've felt for a while that there's a good chance that Season 3 would be Ward's swan song, so I could see that being it for him and then Brett Dalton leaving the show after this season. For now I'm assuming Ward is dead. And I kind of hope there's not much of a time skip when we return because I think it would be a shame to miss seeing everyone's immediate reactions to find out about his death.
One nice surprise: Joey did not die. At first I thought he might actually take a bullet for Daisy, and then when got all excited about seemingly being bulletproof I was like "No don't say that you're going to suddenly get killed now!" So it's nice that that didn't happen.
I'm sure something is going to be left..
. Will's memories were still there to remember fitz and the entitiy came out and said will died protecting gemma, Ward may be 'dead' from a physical standpoint and I can see him start mortifing or something as time goes on, but hes probably going to be mentally at least somewhat there. Ward without a personality isnt really worth the paycheck cause it could have been any random marine that got taken and returned.
Yeah, that's largely what I assume, based on the same thing. I'm mostly interested to see whether
it's just memories, or whether other feelings, motivations, etc. are still in there. It's interesting to me that NotWill was just chilling on a bed down in Will's bunker when Fitz showed up. Did it know they were coming and was just playing the part? Did it just decide to move into Will's place out of convenience? Or was it drawn there legitimately because of remnants of the real Will?
Related note: It's...actually pretty sad that apparently Will was a real guy, and a good guy, who survived in a deadly alien wasteland for like 15 years before being killed and taken over by that thing.
As I said before, if he dies, it was earned. This was earned. He had it coming. Plot armor wears off etc. I'm glad they'll be keeping Dalton around for a bit longer, but I can't be sad about Ward getting killed.
As I said before, if he dies, it was earned. This was earned. He had it coming. Plot armor wears off etc. I'm glad they'll be keeping Dalton around for a bit longer, but I can't be sad about Ward getting killed.
In retrospect, they've spent the last few episodes tying off his remaining plotlines, summing up the character's entire arc, and had then him unequivocally cross a few more lines of no return. If they aren't done completely with Ward (I'm skeptical on that simply because he's still promoted as a core part of the show), I think they are at least done with this phase of his story.
It may even be as simple as that they shot it, but the effects budget or their available time to get the effects completed wouldn't cover completing that portion, or they just didn't have time to film things or couldn't figure out how to fit it into the episode so they cut it. I could easily see a situation where they have wrote the scene so that
Skye has to reopen the portal and holds it open through sheer willpower, Fitz and Coulson come through, UnWard reaches a hand through to try to grab one and pulls himself into the room. A running fight ensues, Coulson and Mac both order May to unleash the heavy weaponry, they make it to the pod and take off, leaving UnWard behind to be destroyed with the castle.
Something like that.
And then they either said "Whoops, we can't fit those scenes within the run time and can't cut anything else" or "Er, the budget only goes so far," or "the actors want to sleep at some point" or something like that and figured that this could be cut.
Thinking over the episode, a lot of the action and effects were subtle or implied. I strongly suspect that the episode was under budgetary pressure, and was quite possibly better for it.
Mac says that they need to take care of some Hydra soldiers in the way. Bobbi walks offscreen and fight noises happen. Simmons lets out Lash, and we just see the very start of the transformation. Even "Will" killing the Hydra soldiers was pretty simple in terms of choreography. Reuse of the castle set probably kept costs down, using the outdoor desert area again likely meant the same.
There were a lot of small, apparently simple effects, so it felt like a lot was happening, but I suspect that very little of it was particularly expensive.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
God DAMN!! that was an amazingly good episode. this season has been astounding so far, can't wait to see what they've got planned for the back half. thankfully we get season 2 of Agent Carter to keeps us entertained while we wait.
+1
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jefe414"My Other Drill Hole is a Teleporter"Mechagodzilla is Best GodzillaRegistered Userregular
This Lincoln/Daisy chemistry feels forced and not organic. While I was never too jazzed about the Fitz/Simmons romance, at least the compassion for each other is well done.
he doesn't seem all that powerful so far, but as Simmons said, he (it?) seems to have fallen from a state of greater power
possibly generated sandstorms, possibly just dramatic coincidence? definitely possession and resilience, not much strength or speed. if it can level/command civilizations, is it possible that this wormlike thing we saw emerging from the body is just one of potentially many? could it be like those gross worm dudes from early Star Trek TNG?
this was what i was thinking when it was talking about "they had the chance to be part of something beautiful"; it sounds like maybe the possession spread far and it was in control of a great deal of the world, and then the remaining survivors nuked the whole shebang to get rid of Mr. Hydra?
there's the talk about how it could drive people crazy, how it can smell blood, and the fact that Will's companions went nuts and attacked him - were they possessed? is there a telepathic element?
it's all very vague for now but i'm interested.
I missed the worm thing, because eyes. That makes me a bit happier as I was sitting there wondering how how it could menace a civilization yet not kill a single injured nerd.
I really like the idea that it's some kind of parasitic colony thing, because it seems like an ideal enemy for a show about spies, and a nice way to reinject some paranoia into the proceedings.
he doesn't seem all that powerful so far, but as Simmons said, he (it?) seems to have fallen from a state of greater power
possibly generated sandstorms, possibly just dramatic coincidence? definitely possession and resilience, not much strength or speed. if it can level/command civilizations, is it possible that this wormlike thing we saw emerging from the body is just one of potentially many? could it be like those gross worm dudes from early Star Trek TNG?
this was what i was thinking when it was talking about "they had the chance to be part of something beautiful"; it sounds like maybe the possession spread far and it was in control of a great deal of the world, and then the remaining survivors nuked the whole shebang to get rid of Mr. Hydra?
there's the talk about how it could drive people crazy, how it can smell blood, and the fact that Will's companions went nuts and attacked him - were they possessed? is there a telepathic element?
it's all very vague for now but i'm interested.
I missed the worm thing, because eyes. That makes me a bit happier as I was sitting there wondering how how it could menace a civilization yet not kill a single injured nerd.
I really like the idea that it's some kind of parasitic colony thing, because it seems like an ideal enemy for a show about spies, and a nice way to reinject some paranoia into the proceedings.
Hmmm,
a mind controlling worm?
Kneel before your God!
Or maybe it's the upgraded version.
Coincidence? I think not.
Well their Jaffa did like to say Kree alot...
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
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Just thinking out loud. Maybe Joey is just plain bulletproof. Not invincible or anything, but given how he seems to struggle to not melt things, it may be the case that fast moving metallic objects coming at him are just never going to not get melted.
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
They'll probably explain it as a natural extension of his autonomic responses coupled with his powers. If he doesn't know he's getting shot, I doubt he would be able to stop the bullets.
Then again, if he can "sense" metal objects then maybe that's possible, too.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I don't think Fitz saw something in Coulson so much as is dealing with having killed Simmons' lover. How can she ever know if he's telling the truth about Will being the thing, and he didn't just kill him to get him out of the way. Fitz be fucked, yo.
Fitz gave Coulson two looks that gave me the impression his perspective on Coulson was changing. Once immediately after Coulson killed Ward and just as the episode was ending while Fitz hugged Simmons.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Just thinking out loud. Maybe Joey is just plain bulletproof. Not invincible or anything, but given how he seems to struggle to not melt things, it may be the case that fast moving metallic objects coming at him are just never going to not get melted.
if his power keeps growing hes basically budget magneto
Just thinking out loud. Maybe Joey is just plain bulletproof. Not invincible or anything, but given how he seems to struggle to not melt things, it may be the case that fast moving metallic objects coming at him are just never going to not get melted.
if his power keeps growing hes basically budget magneto
only a gay husbando
so im pro this development
I really hope that he lasts the length of the show and gets confident in his powers without his personality ever really changing. So in season 7, he's still like 'OMG guys, I just melted a tank!'
Shadowhope on
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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But I really do like that we have a character who is all "Dude I have superpowers this is so tight!" Especially given his introduction as a guy who just wanted all this shit to go away. It's both a nice, subtle bit of character development, and also a thematic argument against knee-jerk removal of powers from anyone who decides, in the heat of the moment, that they don't want powers.
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He was lucky in that he didn't accidentally hurt or kill anyone. I'm also guessing that SHIELD is going to cover the cost of all the property damage he caused.
He was lucky in that he didn't accidentally hurt or kill anyone. I'm also guessing that SHIELD is going to cover the cost of all the property damage he caused.
Psh, SHIELD doesn't officially exist anymore. They probably just nope'd out of there and declared the guy missing or dead.
They'll probably explain it as a natural extension of his autonomic responses coupled with his powers. If he doesn't know he's getting shot, I doubt he would be able to stop the bullets.
Then again, if he can "sense" metal objects then maybe that's possible, too.
It's probably something simpler....the equivilent of losing control of his bladder when hes really scared.
Just thinking out loud. Maybe Joey is just plain bulletproof. Not invincible or anything, but given how he seems to struggle to not melt things, it may be the case that fast moving metallic objects coming at him are just never going to not get melted.
i'm wondering (unnecessarily) about the physics behind this! bullets from a handgun that get liquefied in midair would probably lose so much force as they spread from friction and etc. that they wouldn't hit very hard at all, but higher-caliber weaponry? i wonder
there's enough wiggle room that they could easily have him be mostly bulletproof or completely bulletproof or minimally bulletproof as the plot demands, certainly
This Lincoln/Daisy chemistry feels forced and not organic. While I was never too jazzed about the Fitz/Simmons romance, at least the compassion for each other is well done.
That's because Lincoln is the absolute worst. Maybe if they picked an actor who didn't have a smug smirk on his face 90% of the time things would be better. He's the Hayden Christensen of AoS.
RE: Ward -
I'm pretty sure Grant Ward is dead. While notWill's wound was bleeding, it also wasn't healing. There was a huge zombie chunk in his leg. My feeling is that DeathWorm keeps the organs/blood working/flowing, but not much else. At least, not on a planet all but bereft of resources. Seems like it may be easier for it to get a new host than repair its current one, based on what little we've seen.
Why do I get the feeling that things are moving towards Coulson leaving the show one way or another? He essentially selected his successor, he crossed the "don't let it get personal" line, and in a way, he's more broken now than he was post-TAHITI. At least there he still had the SHIELD ideal in his head and the reassurance of Fury after the first season was finished. Now, he's just... hurt. Emotionally and physically. I can see a blaze of glory ending for him.
I found no surprises in this episode, but that's basically because people in here covered just about every possible combination of plot twists, so I ain't gonna hold it against the show. What it lacked in shock factor it made up for in solid execution and really fun dialogue.
I really hope that NotWard keeps some of Ward's personality. Or becomes awesome in its own right. I'm sad about losing Ward as a character, but optimistic that they'll do something fun with him.
Honestly, this is an example of Agents of SHIELD just being better than most shows. There is almost never a wacky series of convenient hijinks that allows the bad guy to get away so he can keep being the big bad. AoS has consistently given audiences resolution of plotlines while also keeping the tension running and bringing in new things that just fit. Not killing Ward would have been bad writing because Coulson went all that way to do just that. That's what other shows do. AoS is the kind of show where your main character mercilessly crushes a man's chest cavity while watching the life drain from his eyes.
In fact, that opens a whole new conflict in the story because Fitz saw something in Coulson I'm guessing he's having trouble processing.
I found no surprises in this episode, but that's basically because people in here covered just about every possible combination of plot twists, so I ain't gonna hold it against the show. What it lacked in shock factor it made up for in solid execution and really fun dialogue.
I really hope that NotWard keeps some of Ward's personality. Or becomes awesome in its own right. I'm sad about losing Ward as a character, but optimistic that they'll do something fun with him.
Honestly, this is an example of Agents of SHIELD just being better than most shows. There is almost never a wacky series of convenient hijinks that allows the bad guy to get away so he can keep being the big bad. AoS has consistently given audiences resolution of plotlines while also keeping the tension running and bringing in new things that just fit. Not killing Ward would have been bad writing because Coulson went all that way to do just that. That's what other shows do. AoS is the kind of show where your main character mercilessly crushes a man's chest cavity while watching the life drain from his eyes.
In fact, that opens a whole new conflict in the story because Fitz saw something in Coulson I'm guessing he's having trouble processing.
@Nova_C I actually made the comment while watching
Ah that's a bit of a cop out but clever writing. They got rid of Coulson's gun so he can't kill Ward now be--oh shit.
He uh. Uses the worm thing. To take the skills of others.
:hydra:
Or, he
gets resurrected by a sarcophagus but the side effect of bringing back someone who's been dead for so long is brain damage causing long term declarative memory loss.
Just thinking out loud. Maybe Joey is just plain bulletproof. Not invincible or anything, but given how he seems to struggle to not melt things, it may be the case that fast moving metallic objects coming at him are just never going to not get melted.
i'm wondering (unnecessarily) about the physics behind this! bullets from a handgun that get liquefied in midair would probably lose so much force as they spread from friction and etc. that they wouldn't hit very hard at all, but higher-caliber weaponry? i wonder
there's enough wiggle room that they could easily have him be mostly bulletproof or completely bulletproof or minimally bulletproof as the plot demands, certainly
Yeah there would still be some force behind it. If it hit you in the eye or the nuts that would be a seriously bad day. But if it hits you in the flack vest, it's not gonna do shit at that point.
He uh. Uses the worm thing. To take the skills of others.
:hydra:
Or, he
gets resurrected by a sarcophagus but the side effect of bringing back someone who's been dead for so long is brain damage causing long term declarative memory loss.
Last season, when they were talking about using memory tinkering to make Ward into an upstanding citizen, I was sure they were going to use that to inadvertently turn him into Taskmaster.
I felt all preemptively smart about it. Then I was wrong and felt sad and dumb.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
This Lincoln/Daisy chemistry feels forced and not organic. While I was never too jazzed about the Fitz/Simmons romance, at least the compassion for each other is well done.
That's because Lincoln is the absolute worst. Maybe if they picked an actor who didn't have a smug smirk on his face 90% of the time things would be better. He's the Hayden Christensen of AoS.
RE: Ward -
I'm pretty sure Grant Ward is dead. While notWill's wound was bleeding, it also wasn't healing. There was a huge zombie chunk in his leg. My feeling is that DeathWorm keeps the organs/blood working/flowing, but not much else. At least, not on a planet all but bereft of resources. Seems like it may be easier for it to get a new host than repair its current one, based on what little we've seen.
Why do I get the feeling that things are moving towards Coulson leaving the show one way or another? He essentially selected his successor, he crossed the "don't let it get personal" line, and in a way, he's more broken now than he was post-TAHITI. At least there he still had the SHIELD ideal in his head and the reassurance of Fury after the first season was finished. Now, he's just... hurt. Emotionally and physically. I can see a blaze of glory ending for him.
I certainly hope not. About Coulson. For Ward:
As was said- Ward did all he could to deserve his death. He got off easy, in fact. Hopefully he's still in there and hating every moment of it. Phil needs to take it for the victory it is. Even when Zombie Ward turns up, because that's just how things work.
I suspect Phil taking his hand off and leaving it behind instead of framing it like the axe was a mistake. It'll be used to do something not good.
And Simmons needs to start carrying an actual knife or better yet some kind of small gun if Hydra is that inept at pat downs.
Speaking of Simmons: I hope the drama of Will being dead isn't too overdone, but it'll be done for sure for at least this season.
This Lincoln/Daisy chemistry feels forced and not organic. While I was never too jazzed about the Fitz/Simmons romance, at least the compassion for each other is well done.
That's because Lincoln is the absolute worst. Maybe if they picked an actor who didn't have a smug smirk on his face 90% of the time things would be better. He's the Hayden Christensen of AoS.
RE: Ward -
I'm pretty sure Grant Ward is dead. While notWill's wound was bleeding, it also wasn't healing. There was a huge zombie chunk in his leg. My feeling is that DeathWorm keeps the organs/blood working/flowing, but not much else. At least, not on a planet all but bereft of resources. Seems like it may be easier for it to get a new host than repair its current one, based on what little we've seen.
Why do I get the feeling that things are moving towards Coulson leaving the show one way or another? He essentially selected his successor, he crossed the "don't let it get personal" line, and in a way, he's more broken now than he was post-TAHITI. At least there he still had the SHIELD ideal in his head and the reassurance of Fury after the first season was finished. Now, he's just... hurt. Emotionally and physically. I can see a blaze of glory ending for him.
I certainly hope not. About Coulson. For Ward:
As was said- Ward did all he could to deserve his death. He got off easy, in fact. Hopefully he's still in there and hating every moment of it. Phil needs to take it for the victory it is. Even when Zombie Ward turns up, because that's just how things work.
I suspect Phil taking his hand off and leaving it behind instead of framing it like the axe was a mistake. It'll be used to do something not good.
And Simmons needs to start carrying an actual knife or better yet some kind of small gun if Hydra is that inept at pat downs.
Speaking of Simmons: I hope the drama of Will being dead isn't too overdone, but it'll be done for sure for at least this season.
might just be one of the luckiest actors in a Whedon show. How many others get to play this many different characters?
Has been in every Whedon show except for Firefly. (Guest appearances in Buffy, 2 different main characters on Angel, often referenced but only in 1 episode of SHIELD, major character in Dollhouse)
might just be one of the luckiest actors in a Whedon show. How many others get to play this many different characters?
Has been in every Whedon show except for Firefly. (Guest appearances in Buffy, 2 different main characters on Angel, often referenced but only in 1 episode of SHIELD, major character in Dollhouse)
She played at least 3 characters in Dollhouse, and that's ignoring what we saw on screen from her active personalities.
Posts
I'm sure something is going to be left..
Wow, yeah, this seems very plausible.
That was my interpretation. They wisely didn't show the actual details of that event, so there's just enough logical wiggle room for the viewer to make up something superficially plausible.
The show is usually pretty good at the use of the tactical hand wave.
Yeah, that's largely what I assume, based on the same thing. I'm mostly interested to see whether
Related note: It's...actually pretty sad that apparently Will was a real guy, and a good guy, who survived in a deadly alien wasteland for like 15 years before being killed and taken over by that thing.
As I said before, if he dies, it was earned. This was earned. He had it coming. Plot armor wears off etc. I'm glad they'll be keeping Dalton around for a bit longer, but I can't be sad about Ward getting killed.
It may even be as simple as that they shot it, but the effects budget or their available time to get the effects completed wouldn't cover completing that portion, or they just didn't have time to film things or couldn't figure out how to fit it into the episode so they cut it. I could easily see a situation where they have wrote the scene so that
Something like that.
Thinking over the episode, a lot of the action and effects were subtle or implied. I strongly suspect that the episode was under budgetary pressure, and was quite possibly better for it.
There were a lot of small, apparently simple effects, so it felt like a lot was happening, but I suspect that very little of it was particularly expensive.
Hmmm,
Kneel before your God!
Or maybe it's the upgraded version.
Coincidence? I think not.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Then again, if he can "sense" metal objects then maybe that's possible, too.
if his power keeps growing hes basically budget magneto
only a gay husbando
so im pro this development
I really hope that he lasts the length of the show and gets confident in his powers without his personality ever really changing. So in season 7, he's still like 'OMG guys, I just melted a tank!'
Psh, SHIELD doesn't officially exist anymore. They probably just nope'd out of there and declared the guy missing or dead.
It's probably something simpler....the equivilent of losing control of his bladder when hes really scared.
i'm wondering (unnecessarily) about the physics behind this! bullets from a handgun that get liquefied in midair would probably lose so much force as they spread from friction and etc. that they wouldn't hit very hard at all, but higher-caliber weaponry? i wonder
there's enough wiggle room that they could easily have him be mostly bulletproof or completely bulletproof or minimally bulletproof as the plot demands, certainly
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix5/stewrtwardspdrmn.htm
That's because Lincoln is the absolute worst. Maybe if they picked an actor who didn't have a smug smirk on his face 90% of the time things would be better. He's the Hayden Christensen of AoS.
RE: Ward -
Why do I get the feeling that things are moving towards Coulson leaving the show one way or another? He essentially selected his successor, he crossed the "don't let it get personal" line, and in a way, he's more broken now than he was post-TAHITI. At least there he still had the SHIELD ideal in his head and the reassurance of Fury after the first season was finished. Now, he's just... hurt. Emotionally and physically. I can see a blaze of glory ending for him.
Adds new context to the slogan, too.
Actually, I think we just had the wrong kind of hydra all along.
@Nova_C I actually made the comment while watching
Really good stuff.
Noooooooooo.
Or, he
Yeah there would still be some force behind it. If it hit you in the eye or the nuts that would be a seriously bad day. But if it hits you in the flack vest, it's not gonna do shit at that point.
Last season, when they were talking about using memory tinkering to make Ward into an upstanding citizen, I was sure they were going to use that to inadvertently turn him into Taskmaster.
I felt all preemptively smart about it. Then I was wrong and felt sad and dumb.
I certainly hope not. About Coulson. For Ward:
I suspect Phil taking his hand off and leaving it behind instead of framing it like the axe was a mistake. It'll be used to do something not good.
And Simmons needs to start carrying an actual knife or better yet some kind of small gun if Hydra is that inept at pat downs.
Speaking of Simmons: I hope the drama of Will being dead isn't too overdone, but it'll be done for sure for at least this season.
and
Has been in every Whedon show except for Firefly. (Guest appearances in Buffy, 2 different main characters on Angel, often referenced but only in 1 episode of SHIELD, major character in Dollhouse)
MWO: Adamski
She played at least 3 characters in Dollhouse, and that's ignoring what we saw on screen from her active personalities.