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It's the [Trans thread]!

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    KilroyKilroy timaeusTestified Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Neco wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    dragonsama wrote: »
    Well, guess I need a new job. They're not even going to pretend to try to make the other employees use correct name and pronouns.

    Since you are leaving anyway do you have documentation of your interactions with HR/The complaints you filed? because if they are not addressing the issue it sounds like a discrimination lawsuit to me?

    It sounds like it should be right?

    Only it's perfectly legal to discriminate against non-protected classes and a lot of the legal pushes right now in state legislatures (and the larger part of the NC bill) have been to shut down local anti-discrimination laws and maintain alphabet people as unprotected.

    Which we are in most places in the US.

    Even places you'd think would have protections

    Yeah, I think there are only a few states that have gender identity anti discrimination laws. Which is really pathetic.

    only 19 iirc

    Kilroy on
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    HawkstoneHawkstone Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered User regular
    Kilroy wrote: »
    Neco wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    dragonsama wrote: »
    Well, guess I need a new job. They're not even going to pretend to try to make the other employees use correct name and pronouns.

    Since you are leaving anyway do you have documentation of your interactions with HR/The complaints you filed? because if they are not addressing the issue it sounds like a discrimination lawsuit to me?

    It sounds like it should be right?

    Only it's perfectly legal to discriminate against non-protected classes and a lot of the legal pushes right now in state legislatures (and the larger part of the NC bill) have been to shut down local anti-discrimination laws and maintain alphabet people as unprotected.

    Which we are in most places in the US.

    Even places you'd think would have protections

    Yeah, I think there are only a few states that have gender identity anti discrimination laws. Which is really pathetic.

    only 19 iirc

    not sure if it says something about me or the country that I figured on that number being a whole lot lower.

    Inside of a dog...it's too dark to read.
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    NecoNeco Worthless Garbage Registered User regular
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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I
    Also, lawsuits tend to be both costly and time-consuming, which isn't great for people who aren't wealthy enough to not have an employer in the first place. And then there's all the attention a lawsuit can bring, which can have a serious social cost (and sometimes other costs, especially in a discrimination case, where you're basically calling attention to yourself and reasons why shitty people might want to make your life miserable).

    Like, I love the idea of justice, but in a lot of cases, you have to actually be pretty privileged to begin with in order to make the legal system really work for you. Basically the only people who can afford to use it are the ones who don't really need it.

    I'm no expert and maybe it's different for discrimination cases, but don't most lawyers take their payment out of the damages you're awarded

    Of course that still has the problems that the damages you're being awarded have to be enough for it to be profitable for the lawyer to pursue the case, and depending on circumstances you might be open to being countersued for legal fees

    This is all hypothetical until transgender people get protected class status which is prolly a long way out still, but also isn't this sort of situation what the ACLU is for?

    The issue isn't the end cost, it's having funds to retain the lawyer in the first place (unless you're lucky to find someone who's both competent and pro bono) and the money you're not making from work during the case, which is often drawn out extensively because corporations who just pay other people to do law stuff full time can afford to do this a lot longer than you can.

    Right but so

    My only experience is with medical and legal malpractice suits so again maybe this doesn't apply

    But in both of those cases our lawyers worked for us for free, with the understanding that if and when we got awarded a settlement or damages we would owe them 30% of what we got

    My understanding was that it's primarily defense attorneys that require payment up front

    Speed Racer on
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    MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    Ms Dapper wrote: »
    I'm honestly wonder if it's worth making a huge stink over because then all these people I barely know (including cops) will just start judging me and saying how I don't pass yet and that's why I can never use the right bathroom.

    well, way i see it you got, roughly three options. One, do make a big stink making sure to try to keep a level head so they can't throw that in your face, 2, If it is as bad as you hear find out who made the thing and report them to HR for discrimination and encourage any of your work friends to act likewise, or C) Start looking for a new place of employ because who boy this place sounds fucked up.

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    Ms DapperMs Dapper Yuri Librarian Registered User regular
    Well a cop just told me that she finds trans people "disgusting" and that they're "just guys playing dress up. I almost breakdown there and had a breakdown when I was alone.

    Actual HR people were great though. I talked with them afterwards and they were very nice and understanding. The actual bit of the meeting about trans rights wasn't the best but they said that they need to keep trans people's safety in mind. Another person attending said she didn't want someone who had "bought the parts" in with her who got them at birth and they said that was a very wrong way to refer to it.

    Still not doing great in general.

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    tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    ... jesus, that sounds like a nightmare.

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    MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    what a gross cop. and that lady, fuck her.

    I'm sorry all of this happened.

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    GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Ms Dapper wrote: »
    Well a cop just told me that she finds trans people "disgusting" and that they're "just guys playing dress up. I almost breakdown there and had a breakdown when I was alone.
    Man I'm so sorry that happened to you. I know cops are often not held to tight enough standards, but jeez... cops shouldn't harass anyone. Especially not in uniform. Like, the primary job of officers on the beat is mostly just to make people feel safe. (Illusion of safety and all that jazz.) Insulting someone to their face is literally antithetical to their job.

    Gundi on
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    PonyPony Registered User regular
    cops with bad opinions are the fucking worst

    like, i went to college for law enforcement, at one time that was where my career was going before whooooooops career-ending back injury

    anyway one of the things my instructor used to say was that police really do need to be a higher standard of people

    if your pizza guy fucks up, you get cold pizza or the wrong toppings. if your cab driver fucks up, you are late and it costs you more money to get to your destination. if a cop fucks up, people's lives get ruined and they can fucking die

    so if a cop is racist or homophobic or transphobic or whatever, it's the fucking worst. it's way worse than a politician having those kinds of views, because while a politician potentially has the power to pass laws that can on a broad scale impact more people, on a direct level that one cop can destroy more lives with being a shitstain

    i got a lot of buddies who are cops, because that was a social circle that i rolled in at one time and i got family who are in corrections and law enforcement. they're good dudes (or they wouldn't be my buddies) but jesus christ they got people in their lives who are complete fucking bastards

    a buddy of mine who is a (Canadian) cop wrote a bit on his Facebook about HB2 and such a while back and how fucking garbage it is and how, even if a law that abominable gets created, ultimately it will be a toothless law if the police have the heart to stand up to it and refuse to enforce it (police refusal to enforce unjust laws is kind of a cultural thing in Canada, it's why pot is basically legal in BC and why safe shoot-up sites for heroin are a thing).

    some buddies of his who are also cops pointed out that the grim reality is that unfortunately a lot of American cops will gleefully enforce these kinds of laws, they wholeheartedly support them. which is unfortunate, but true. what's worse, though, are some of the other people on his friends list who are also Canadian cops who basically came out in favor of these laws and were like "these laws should be enforced because pedophiles hurp a durrrr" and they got into a big Facebook argument. I ended up wading in at that point, only to have my opinion disregarded by those guys as a "civilian" (which caused one of the other cops to get real fucking mad because he's a vet and he gets mad fuckin salty when cops refer to non-cops as "civilians". police are civilians too by definition)

    it was this huge row and it got ugly, my friend whose Facebook this happened on ended up unfriending a bunch of people over it and shit. I asked him if he worked with any of the worst of them and he was like yep, some of them are in my department. I asked if he was like, going to take that up with a supervisor or something and he's like nnnnnnope, that's a political opinion expressed on social media, that's protected, even if i don't care for it and think it's awful, that's their right.

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    Ms DapperMs Dapper Yuri Librarian Registered User regular
    Gundi wrote: »
    Ms Dapper wrote: »
    Well a cop just told me that she finds trans people "disgusting" and that they're "just guys playing dress up. I almost breakdown there and had a breakdown when I was alone.
    Man I'm so sorry that happened to you. I know cops are often not held to tight enough standards, but jeez... cops shouldn't harass anyone. Especially not in uniform. Like, the primary job of officers on the beat is mostly just to make people feel safe. (Illusion of safety and all that jazz.) Insulting someone to their face is literally antithetical to their job.

    The thing is in pretty sure she didn't know I was trans. She just assumed she was in company of people she could say that shit to and the second I spoke up she doubled down more.

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    PonyPony Registered User regular
    Ms Dapper wrote: »
    Gundi wrote: »
    Ms Dapper wrote: »
    Well a cop just told me that she finds trans people "disgusting" and that they're "just guys playing dress up. I almost breakdown there and had a breakdown when I was alone.
    Man I'm so sorry that happened to you. I know cops are often not held to tight enough standards, but jeez... cops shouldn't harass anyone. Especially not in uniform. Like, the primary job of officers on the beat is mostly just to make people feel safe. (Illusion of safety and all that jazz.) Insulting someone to their face is literally antithetical to their job.

    The thing is in pretty sure she didn't know I was trans. She just assumed she was in company of people she could say that shit to and the second I spoke up she doubled down more.

    yeah that sounds right

    when shitty people don't think they're in "mixed company" they will air all kinds of filthy laundry

    it makes me so fucking angry because to the majority of people, i read as a straight white cis male, aka The Guy You Can Say Shit Around

    so that's when people will be like "the fuckin' Jews m i rite?"

    and i have to do the mental math of "do i want to make a thing out of the fact that I'm fucking Jewish right now?"

    fortunately, for me, I have what I have come to call "escalation privilege"

    I can pretty much fearlessly escalate any situation without a lot of concern, up to and including considering that it might get violent

    this is pure, uncut privilege, other people don't have that necessarily

    and even i have to weight how fucking tiring that can be and how much it's worth it to just nuke a social situation for myself

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    GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    There's a bill being drafted by a committee of the Democratic minority in the NC legislature. It's not going to pass through our congress but it does feel just a tiny bit better to get some official state-level pushback against it. (Previously all the internal pushback has been at the municipal level.)

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Oh yeah, I forgot about that one: "They're not disrespecting you by calling you the wrong name."

    Yeah, yeah they kinda are.

    Yet mysteriously if you constantly misgendered them right back they'd get pretty sick of it in about 3 minutes

    EDIT Not that I am advocating this because it's a quick route to confrontation that could get nasty, but DAMBIT, manners cost nothing.

    V1m on
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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    i'm really sorry you had (have) to deal with that ashley

    that's fucking garbage

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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    In less bleak news I ordered my first bit of woman's clothing.

    It's a rad ass coat based on a video game. Which as someone who finds most gaming clothing super tatty feels weird.

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    GatsbyGatsby Registered User regular
    So, I came out as trans to my manager last night and she was incredibly supportive and has my back once I start presenting femme. She asked how the process was going, asking how I felt, and she printed out a new name badge and gave me a women's uniform in my size! Only minor trouble is having my pronouns on my name badge, which she has no issue with, but she's forced to contact head office about since it's a matter of changing the uniform policy ever so slightly. But otherwise yeah, she says I'm free to start presenting whenever I feel comfortable to, and that her door's always open if need be.

    I'm both scared and also excited, but I finally get to be a girl at work. Now to start figuring out how I'll be coming out on Facebook.

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    Sir FabulousSir Fabulous Malevolent Squid God Registered User regular
    Bit the bullet, asked a friend to go dress shopping with me sometime.

    pickup-sig.php?name=Orthanc

    Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
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    GoatmonGoatmon Companion of Kess Registered User regular
    Gatsby that sounds amazing. High fucking five.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-6680-6709-4204


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    Ms DapperMs Dapper Yuri Librarian Registered User regular
    tumblr_inline_o6ahmuMegQ1r8b64s_540.jpg

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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    Gotta get in all those tertiary sexual characteristics in case people can't tell what's going on from the bubble exposition.

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    OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    If this is all about keeping people from feeling unsafe in public restrooms, could we also get a bill that prohibits the NC state congress and governor from using public restrooms? Because knowing what they think people use public restrooms for, I don't really want to share one with any of them.

    OmnipotentBagel on
    cdci44qazyo3.gif

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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    MKR wrote: »
    Gotta get in all those tertiary sexual characteristics in case people can't tell what's going on from the bubble exposition.

    I mean it's a political cartoon, that the guy isn't literally labeled "transgender man" is an astounding level of restraint

    2x39jD4.jpg
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Just rename all bathrooms to "genital care stations"

    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
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    Sir FabulousSir Fabulous Malevolent Squid God Registered User regular
    Just remake bathrooms to only have one big toilet, and they make you all go at the same time.

    pickup-sig.php?name=Orthanc

    Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Just remake bathrooms to only have one big toilet, and they make you all go at the same time.

    Ah yes

    The Pee Trough

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    The GeekThe Geek Oh-Two Crew, Omeganaut Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Just remake bathrooms to only have one big toilet, and they make you all go at the same time.

    Ah yes

    The Pee Trough

    Yeah, those exist.

    BLM - ACAB
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    CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    The city of Oxford Alabama yesterday passed a city ordinance banning trans people from using public washrooms.
    The Oxford, Alabama, city council unanimously approved an ordinance on Tuesday that bars trans people from using any public bathroom that doesn’t match the sex indicated on their birth certificate. Because changing one’s birth certificate is difficult in many states (including Alabama) and impossible in others, the measure effectively proscribes trans people in Oxford from using any bathroom outside of their house. Trans people who violate the ordinance may be imprisoned for up to six months.

    Alabama really wants to step up their game on North Carolina for worst state in the Union it seems. What a disgrace.

    488W936.png
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    TurkeyTurkey So, Usoop. TampaRegistered User regular
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    NullzoneNullzone Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Turkey wrote: »

    The entire logic of his "argument" fails from the get go: "Is it true that men can use the women's restroom?"

    No, you dipshit, women are using the women's restroom.

    His second position is far less complex: "Sometimes I get uncomfortable using the men's room"

    OK! Then use the one that makes you feel comfortable. Don't do weird things, regardless of where you are, and everyone will be fine.

    I can't fathom how this is hard to comprehend.

    Nullzone on
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    PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    Gay man is asshole to trans women, uses status as gay man to attempt deflecting criticism.
    I am in shock and awe.

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    GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Bit the bullet, asked a friend to go dress shopping with me sometime.
    I'ma go dress shopping this saturday. Hifives all around.

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    Ms DapperMs Dapper Yuri Librarian Registered User regular
    Woman forced to leave bathroom by police for looking masculine.

    Another showcase of how these bills attacks anyone who does not fall into gender norms.

    Also how's male police dragging women in bathrooms for "males enacting violence in women's restrooms."

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    GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Gundi wrote: »
    Things I want my state government to do:
    1. Burn
    2. Burn
    3. Burn

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    Desert LeviathanDesert Leviathan Registered User regular
    I've got mixed feelings about cis people getting caught in the crossfire here. On the one hand, it pretty effectively highlights that gender is a way more complicated subject than the icons on the bathroom doors would indicate, and will probably draw in a lot of people against these laws who would have otherwise been content to sit on the sidelines. On the other hand, it could lead to the impact of these laws being repealed getting diluted somewhat, if it's seen as more important to avoid inconveniencing cis people than actually making it about respecting trans people.

    Realizing lately that I don't really trust or respect basically any of the moderators here. So, good luck with life, friends! Hit me up on Twitter @DesertLeviathan
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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    Ms Dapper wrote: »
    Woman forced to leave bathroom by police for looking masculine.

    Another showcase of how these bills attacks anyone who does not fall into gender norms.

    Also how's male police dragging women in bathrooms for "males enacting violence in women's restrooms."

    Yeah like

    Horribly discriminatory against transgender people is bad enough

    But the upshot of these kinds of laws is that every police officer is empowered to harass and humiliate anyone who fails to conform to their personal conception of gender

    In theory these laws are disgusting and in practice they're somehow even worse

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    Ms DapperMs Dapper Yuri Librarian Registered User regular
    I totally agree and get that but I also have the feeling that unless cis people start getting caught in the crossfire not many cis people are going to give a shit.

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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    Ms Dapper wrote: »
    I totally agree and get that but I also have the feeling that unless cis people start getting caught in the crossfire not many cis people are going to give a shit.

    I'm weirded out by how that article felt the need to highlight that the woman in question was a lesbian

    As if that is at all relevant

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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    It probably was relevant.

This discussion has been closed.