[Deus Ex] It's not cancelled yet, but you can see it from here

CaptainNemo

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided is a game about augs and fun.

It stars Adam Jensen, a good cyborg with happy feelings.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fTOxcWR1y6E

In his latest augscepade, AJ finds himself on a Eurotrip!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZGGaVCCMgfw

A brief recap of Human Revolution!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ugfMR-zwF0c

evilbob

Best thread title. Just finished the game. Love it.

PreciousBodilyFluids

To continue the discussion from the last thread:

It's very strongly implied that Adam is a clone of the Adam we played as in HR. The evidence adds up:

1) His Sarif augs no longer have the serial codes they had.
2) Lucius DeBeers and Delara discuss how Adam's memory and programming are functioning well.
3) The entire Harvester questline shows that it's possible to transfer memories and personality from a neural aug to a different body.
4) When you hack into Dr. Cipra's computer (the guy from the Harvester questline), it becomes clear that he knows and worked with Vadim Orlov, the dude we know installed new augs into Adam. It's implied it's actually Orlov who installed a dead murderer's memory and personality into Daria. I consider this pretty on-the-nose foreshadowing that he did the same with Adam Jensen.
5) Eliza mentions that "a version of you" helped her escape at Panchea.
6) That title screen with the 2 Adams looking at each other.

Other theories:

7) The original Adam, dead or alive, is currently being used for further experiments. JC, Paul, and Alex Denton will all be cloned from his aug-accepting DNA.

8) The programming done by Lucius DeBeers is what compels Adam to join the Juggernaut Collective and insist on meeting Janus face-to-face (possibly that one bald Illuminati guy who wasn't in the original DX). Once they actually meet, Adam's programming will kick in and he will kill Janus on the spot. This also works if Adam is not a clone, because we know Lucius had programming done regardless.

I really hope they start with that revelation in the sequel, rather than drawing it out until the end. "You are a clone and you were programmed to kill the one guy who could best help you defeat the Illuminati" would be one hell of an opening, offering plenty of stuff to explore.

CaptainNemo

PreciousBodilyFluids wrote: »

To continue the discussion from the last thread:

It's very strongly implied that Adam is a clone of the Adam we played as in HR. The evidence adds up:

1) His Sarif augs no longer have the serial codes they had.
2) Lucius DeBeers and Delara discuss how Adam's memory and programming are functioning well.
3) The entire Harvester questline shows that it's possible to transfer memories and personality from a neural aug to a different body.
4) When you hack into Dr. Cipra's computer (the guy from the Harvester questline), it becomes clear that he knows and worked with Vadim Orlov, the dude we know installed new augs into Adam. It's implied it's actually Orlov who installed a dead murderer's memory and personality into Daria. I consider this pretty on-the-nose foreshadowing that he did the same with Adam Jensen.
5) Eliza mentions that "a version of you" helped her escape at Panchea.
6) That title screen with the 2 Adams looking at each other.

Other theories:

7) The original Adam, dead or alive, is currently being used for further experiments. JC, Paul, and Alex Denton will all be cloned from his aug-accepting DNA.

8) The programming done by Lucius DeBeers is what compels Adam to join the Juggernaut Collective and insist on meeting Janus face-to-face (possibly that one bald Illuminati guy who wasn't in the original DX). Once they actually meet, Adam's programming will kick in and he will kill Janus on the spot. This also works if Adam is not a clone, because we know Lucius had programming done regardless.

I really hope they start with that revelation in the sequel, rather than drawing it out until the end. "You are a clone and you were programmed to kill the one guy who could best help you defeat the Illuminati" would be one hell of an opening, offering plenty of stuff to explore.

Eh.

It's definitely possible, but Sarif's lines seem to imply that Adam's augs still have the Sarif serial numbers, but the new one's don't. We know Adam got fucked with at Base 451 after Panchea. DeBeers definitely fucked with his head, and Delara is there to maintain that. To my knowledge, rapid cloning doesn't exist in Deus Ex at this point. Unless they 3D printed Adam.

Asthariel

I prefer to belive that Adam is "only" brainwashed to become a sleeper agent. As i said, twist with clone would be too predictable.

CaptainNemo

I'm guessing Rabi'ah is the hub for the next game, but I'd love to see some areas from the past games return. Maybe a trip to the ruins of Sarif Industries, or Liberty Island.

orthemoonbase

PreciousBodilyFluids

Asthariel wrote: »

I prefer to belive that Adam is "only" brainwashed to become a sleeper agent. As i said, twist with clone would be too predictable.

I actually completely agree.

I would prefer to explore just the programming and its consequences. I don't think the cloning adds much. But the entire Harvester questline, and the fact that the doctor who worked on Adam was involved, is just too much foreshadowing/coincidence, especially combined with all the other little points. Unless it's meant as a red herring.

CaptainNemo

PreciousBodilyFluids wrote: »

Asthariel wrote: »

I prefer to belive that Adam is "only" brainwashed to become a sleeper agent. As i said, twist with clone would be too predictable.

I actually completely agree.

I would prefer to explore just the programming and its consequences. I don't think the cloning adds much. But the entire Harvester questline, and the fact that the doctor who worked on Adam was involved, is just too much foreshadowing/coincidence, especially combined with all the other little points. Unless it's meant as a red herring.

I think it was more to show how certain behaviors can be implanted via augs. Like, say, a need to find Janus...

Erlkönig

Heh, I've been waiting for the new thread to post this. So I've just started playing Mankind Divided, and I gotta say: this is one of the few graphically demanding games where I can't crank up all the graphics options to their max settings. Running 1080p, and if I put everything to their right-most settings, the game runs at 20fps. Dropping MSAA to only 2x (everything else going untouched) makes the game playable. Was just a bit of a surprise.

Content-wise, I've only made it past the first mission, and all I can say is (DX:HR mission spoiler):

I'm real glad that they got the "Save Malik" style objective thing out of the way early. That secondary objective in DX:HR was mouse-throwingly infuriating on my Pacifist run.

CaptainNemo

I do miss unique weapon mods, but I guess the new ammo and firing modes balance those out.

evilthecat

I read the sarif serials differently.
I understood it as:

if the "normal" authorities had done their work in a standard manner, then he would have been quick to ID because of the sarif serial numbers.
The fact that he wasn't suggests that the people that found him didn't want the rest of the world to know he's still alive.

Rami

I started a game on I Never Asked For This

I did everything in Prague, all the side missions all the exploring. Did the train station thing, broke into the bank which did get a little bit hairy and I may have switched the sentry bots on their owners on the way out.

Found a computer in a little shack in GC, hack it, exit to find police shooting at me. RIP.

8 hours well spent.

Axen

evilthecat wrote: »

I read the sarif serials differently.
I understood it as:

if the "normal" authorities had done their work in a standard manner, then he would have been quick to ID because of the sarif serial numbers.
The fact that he wasn't suggests that the people that found him didn't want the rest of the world to know he's still alive.

I am of this mind too.

Sariff would literally have no way of knowing if Adam's augs still had serial numbers or not. So I doubt he was implying Adam's augs didn't have numbers anymore.

Because of the serial numbers and the unique nature of his augs he'd have been stupidly easy to identify.

Therefore, what I believe Sariff's point was was that someone didn't want Adam identified.

Brain washing/trigger command seems most likely. In fact I'd say it is obviously a given.

tastydonuts

So I'm at Golem

Clearing the ARC HQ and I'm realizing that being absolute ghost, while fun... is very time consuming when I want to get all of the things/seek collectibles in the game.

Would knocking out everyone so I can pick their HQ clean impact convincing Rucker to Come with me if he wants to live?

I read that I need to do a certain mission to get some ebooks...

For the bank, can I choose to save her, run to the bank and clear it out first, then go back or is that a timed/lockout type thing?

Syngyne

tastydonuts wrote: »

So I'm at Golem

Clearing the ARC HQ and I'm realizing that being absolute ghost, while fun... is very time consuming when I want to get all of the things/seek collectibles in the game.

Would knocking out everyone so I can pick their HQ clean impact convincing Rucker to Come with me if he wants to live?

If you knock people out instead of killing them, he thanks you for showing restraint.

For the bank, can I choose to save her, run to the bank and clear it out first, then go back or is that a timed/lockout type thing?

It's an either/or. You can't do both.

Steel Angel

PreciousBodilyFluids wrote: »

To continue the discussion from the last thread:

It's very strongly implied that Adam is a clone of the Adam we played as in HR. The evidence adds up:

1) His Sarif augs no longer have the serial codes they had.
2) Lucius DeBeers and Delara discuss how Adam's memory and programming are functioning well.
3) The entire Harvester questline shows that it's possible to transfer memories and personality from a neural aug to a different body.
4) When you hack into Dr. Cipra's computer (the guy from the Harvester questline), it becomes clear that he knows and worked with Vadim Orlov, the dude we know installed new augs into Adam. It's implied it's actually Orlov who installed a dead murderer's memory and personality into Daria. I consider this pretty on-the-nose foreshadowing that he did the same with Adam Jensen.
5) Eliza mentions that "a version of you" helped her escape at Panchea.
6) That title screen with the 2 Adams looking at each other.

Other theories:

7) The original Adam, dead or alive, is currently being used for further experiments. JC, Paul, and Alex Denton will all be cloned from his aug-accepting DNA.

8) The programming done by Lucius DeBeers is what compels Adam to join the Juggernaut Collective and insist on meeting Janus face-to-face (possibly that one bald Illuminati guy who wasn't in the original DX). Once they actually meet, Adam's programming will kick in and he will kill Janus on the spot. This also works if Adam is not a clone, because we know Lucius had programming done regardless.

I really hope they start with that revelation in the sequel, rather than drawing it out until the end. "You are a clone and you were programmed to kill the one guy who could best help you defeat the Illuminati" would be one hell of an opening, offering plenty of stuff to explore.

Regarding theories:

None of the existing lore involving cloning has suggested they can get an adult clone in under 2 years. Paul and JC had normal length childhoods. And Cipra's point that the augs supplement personality but don't override it fits with how the original Harvester wouldn't have utilized pretty serious augmentations and probably wasn't a catlady.


I read the title screen art as more of how Adam is working for both Juggernaut and Interpol which don't always get along.

tastydonuts

Syngyne wrote: »

tastydonuts wrote: »

So I'm at Golem

Clearing the ARC HQ and I'm realizing that being absolute ghost, while fun... is very time consuming when I want to get all of the things/seek collectibles in the game.

Would knocking out everyone so I can pick their HQ clean impact convincing Rucker to Come with me if he wants to live?

If you knock people out instead of killing them, he thanks you for showing restraint.

For the bank, can I choose to save her, run to the bank and clear it out first, then go back or is that a timed/lockout type thing?

It's an either/or. You can't do both.

Does it teleport me to the place I need to go or otherwise lock me out?

Syngyne

tastydonuts wrote: »

Syngyne wrote: »

tastydonuts wrote: »

So I'm at Golem

Clearing the ARC HQ and I'm realizing that being absolute ghost, while fun... is very time consuming when I want to get all of the things/seek collectibles in the game.

Would knocking out everyone so I can pick their HQ clean impact convincing Rucker to Come with me if he wants to live?

If you knock people out instead of killing them, he thanks you for showing restraint.

For the bank, can I choose to save her, run to the bank and clear it out first, then go back or is that a timed/lockout type thing?

It's an either/or. You can't do both.

Does it teleport me to the place I need to go or otherwise lock me out?

I think it just locks you out. You need keycard to get into the VersaLife vault, and if you choose to save Allison, you don't get it. I'm not sure what happens if you choose the bank.

tastydonuts

Syngyne wrote: »

tastydonuts wrote: »

Syngyne wrote: »

tastydonuts wrote: »

So I'm at Golem

Clearing the ARC HQ and I'm realizing that being absolute ghost, while fun... is very time consuming when I want to get all of the things/seek collectibles in the game.

Would knocking out everyone so I can pick their HQ clean impact convincing Rucker to Come with me if he wants to live?

If you knock people out instead of killing them, he thanks you for showing restraint.

For the bank, can I choose to save her, run to the bank and clear it out first, then go back or is that a timed/lockout type thing?

It's an either/or. You can't do both.

Does it teleport me to the place I need to go or otherwise lock me out?

I think it just locks you out. You need keycard to get into the VersaLife vault, and if you choose to save Allison, you don't get it. I'm not sure what happens if you choose the bank.

Oh, well... can I do the opposite choice and still access the other spot?

DreadBert

Edit, dumped due to dead horse being beaten throughly

Snicketysnick

tastydonuts wrote: »

Syngyne wrote: »

tastydonuts wrote: »

Syngyne wrote: »

tastydonuts wrote: »

So I'm at Golem

Clearing the ARC HQ and I'm realizing that being absolute ghost, while fun... is very time consuming when I want to get all of the things/seek collectibles in the game.

Would knocking out everyone so I can pick their HQ clean impact convincing Rucker to Come with me if he wants to live?

If you knock people out instead of killing them, he thanks you for showing restraint.

For the bank, can I choose to save her, run to the bank and clear it out first, then go back or is that a timed/lockout type thing?

It's an either/or. You can't do both.

Does it teleport me to the place I need to go or otherwise lock me out?

I think it just locks you out. You need keycard to get into the VersaLife vault, and if you choose to save Allison, you don't get it. I'm not sure what happens if you choose the bank.

Oh, well... can I do the opposite choice and still access the other spot?

I *think*

that you might be able to get into the other location after, but I can't confirm that as I saved Alison on my playthrough. It's a crime scene so it might well be open to entry but I wouldn't count on it.

tastydonuts

Oh, she also reminds me a lot of Pris. I'm assuming that was very intentional.

edit: spoilered and Pris is from Blade Runner.

Steel Angel

tastydonuts wrote: »

Oh, she also reminds me a lot of Pris. I'm assuming that was very intentional.

edit: spoilered and Pris is from Blade Runner.

They are very aware of prior works. The play that Irena/Helena is obsessed with, R.U.R., is the work that popularized the term "Robot" even though the play imagined its robots as cloned humans and not machines. Still had the idea of a robot apocalypse though.

AlphaRomero

I'm gonna be honest, I don't understand the purpose of that choice at all.

That you can choose not to go after her, thus abandoning the train bombing just shows how pointless that whole plot line is, it doesn't factor into the ending at all, it's just something that happened.

And ultimately why would you choose to go after her when you know Versalife (if you've played the other games) and I think by that point you're aware of something called the Orchid.

So why make it a choice? Not even a timed choice but either or? What is the point in locking out a chunk of content in this scenario? There isn't one. It isn't like the decision has a huge impact, if you choose Alison you get a obmb jammer to give you more time at the end but you don't need it, or you get the Orchid antidote and can save Miller, but eh, doesn't really impact your end game.

They didn't commit to either choice so why have either.

The more time I have to decompress it, the more obvious it becomes how shoddy the story is.

The end of the first game you're in Area 51, in HR you're in a giant super facility designed to change the entire ocean during a global calamity.

In this you're at a gala to fight a guy you don't care about to save a guy you just met.

And an aside, TF29 base is shit. I miss UNATCO.

Sneaks

tastydonuts wrote: »

Oh, well... can I do the opposite choice and still access the other spot?

Yes. Only police will be there at that point, but you can go there.

Axen

Steel Angel wrote: »

tastydonuts wrote: »

Oh, she also reminds me a lot of Pris. I'm assuming that was very intentional.

edit: spoilered and Pris is from Blade Runner.

They are very aware of prior works. The play that Irena/Helena is obsessed with, R.U.R., is the work that popularized the term "Robot" even though the play imagined its robots as cloned humans and not machines. Still had the idea of a robot apocalypse though.

Which is a Czech play, so good pick on their part!

Edit- oh also another fun fact: Paul and JC Denton are alive and well right now in Mankind Divided. Albeit probably still pooping their diapers.

Nyysjan

About the dead horse theory

clone idea is possible, and it is possible that AJ in MD is a (possibly different) clone of Adam Jensen.
But there being only 2 year difference, i doubt they'd have time to grow a clone, do the implants and instal memories from scratch.
So if AJ is a clone, then they would have decided to replace him long time ago.

Drovek

Nyysjan wrote: »

About the dead horse theory

clone idea is possible, and it is possible that AJ in MD is a (possibly different) clone of Adam Jensen.
But there being only 2 year difference, i doubt they'd have time to grow a clone, do the implants and instal memories from scratch.
So if AJ is a clone, then they would have decided to replace him long time ago.

Well, if you manage to produce a miracle strain of DNA (no NoPoz rejection) you're going to try several times for one to 'take.' Chances are they had a few of the once who made it in stand-by in some base (receiving training and what not) and then they felt like implanting one with whatever they needed.

AlphaRomero

Like if it hasn't been mentioned in the games yet,

he's almost certainly a basis for Paul and JC, but I doubt he's a clone. Why would the illuminati clone him, give him all Adam's memories including of Megan, kit him out with top of the line AND experimental augs, then let him loose to be a nuisance to them? You don't need his memories to make him work, you need a super immune body and a blank, programmable slate.

tastydonuts

AlphaRomero wrote: »

Like if it hasn't been mentioned in the games yet,

he's almost certainly a basis for Paul and JC, but I doubt he's a clone. Why would the illuminati clone him, give him all Adam's memories including of Megan, kit him out with top of the line AND experimental augs, then let him loose to be a nuisance to them? You don't need his memories to make him work, you need a super immune body and a blank, programmable slate.

Villain logic?

Nyysjan

Drovek wrote: »

Nyysjan wrote: »

About the dead horse theory

clone idea is possible, and it is possible that AJ in MD is a (possibly different) clone of Adam Jensen.
But there being only 2 year difference, i doubt they'd have time to grow a clone, do the implants and instal memories from scratch.
So if AJ is a clone, then they would have decided to replace him long time ago.

Well, if you manage to produce a miracle strain of DNA (no NoPoz rejection) you're going to try several times for one to 'take.' Chances are they had a few of the once who made it in stand-by in some base (receiving training and what not) and then they felt like implanting one with whatever they needed.

I am quite open to the idea that there might be a bunch of genetically identical clones around.
But that does not make him physically identical (though that is fixable with surgery), and they would still need to get identical augments to Sarif ones, do the surgery to implant them, do all the physical therapy to get them working, and program him with all necessary memories (don't need to be perfect, just close enough for passing scrutiny with planet impulse to avoid people) and give him the required training for the augments.
They had maybe a year to do this.

I don't really find it likely they could have done this in that time.
It is possible they started way before the incident, but i don't find it likely.

Axen

Nyysjan wrote: »

Drovek wrote: »

Nyysjan wrote: »

About the dead horse theory

clone idea is possible, and it is possible that AJ in MD is a (possibly different) clone of Adam Jensen.
But there being only 2 year difference, i doubt they'd have time to grow a clone, do the implants and instal memories from scratch.
So if AJ is a clone, then they would have decided to replace him long time ago.

Well, if you manage to produce a miracle strain of DNA (no NoPoz rejection) you're going to try several times for one to 'take.' Chances are they had a few of the once who made it in stand-by in some base (receiving training and what not) and then they felt like implanting one with whatever they needed.

I am quite open to the idea that there might be a bunch of genetically identical clones around.
But that does not make him physically identical (though that is fixable with surgery), and they would still need to get identical augments to Sarif ones, do the surgery to implant them, do all the physical therapy to get them working, and program him with all necessary memories (don't need to be perfect, just close enough for passing scrutiny with planet impulse to avoid people) and give him the required training for the augments.
They had maybe a year to do this.

I don't really find it likely they could have done this in that time.
It is possible they started way before the incident, but i don't find it unlikely.

I'm pretty sure it is

OG Jensen, just with a fresh coat of Manchurian Canidate.

Apart from a number of reasons another is that Paul and JC Denton are clones, but had to start off as embryos, be born, and grow up like normal folk and that shit was considered state of the art cloning tech at the time. Which at this time in the game Paul and JC already exist.

Nightslyr

AlphaRomero wrote: »

Like if it hasn't been mentioned in the games yet,

he's almost certainly a basis for Paul and JC, but I doubt he's a clone. Why would the illuminati clone him

For more of his special DNA. Replicating it gives them more material to create Paul and JC with, in addition to developing the Grey Death. Plus, Adam Jensen is a somewhat known entity in the world. He has a public record and contacts that DeBeers can exploit.

give him all Adam's memories including of Megan

Why are you assuming that they'd have the ability to control which memories he had access to? The Harvester quest makes it seem like an all or nothing affair. My guess is that the Illuminati has developed the ability to insert subliminal suggestions directly into the brain, but not the ability to pick and choose which memories to copy over and implant. The game makes it pretty clear that whatever Jensen is going through is still somewhat experimental.

kit him out with top of the line AND experimental augs

Jensen has Sarif augs because that's what he spent two years or so adjusting to. It makes a ton of sense to give him what he remembers rather than something else if he is a clone. The experimental augs could be triggered by his programming to make him more deadly when the time comes to take care of Janus.

then let him loose to be a nuisance to them?

A nuisance to whom? It's pretty clear that DeBeers and Auzenne are the only two really aware of what's going on with Jensen, and that things are progressing as DeBeers wants. He's proven to be capable, already has training, plus is already used to his augs. Moreover, he already has a support network in place to help him do what he needs to do. He has Sarif. He has Pritchard (who is apparently going to be involved in the first story DLC). He has Malik. He has Tong.

You don't need his memories to make him work, you need a super immune body and a blank, programmable slate.

Why program him up from scratch, especially when missing pieces of his life that the Illuminati may not be aware of may blow his cover, when you can simply copy/paste from the real thing and then insert what you need afterward?

I'm not saying he's definitely a clone, but it wouldn't be unreasonable if he was, based on the evidence we have at this point. I think he's either a clone or a Manchurian agent.

Dark Raven X

so, can't play yet, but I was curious; is Malik anywhere in this one?

Snicketysnick

There is a small easter eggish reference to Malik yes.

evilbob

Re: heist v bomb maker and ending effects

If you save allison and win convo she gives you a bomb disabling thing. Lets you go to marchenko, disable his bomb trigger, go straight from boss room to delegates and save them, then go back to beat marchenko.
If you do heist you get orchid cure but no bomb disabler. Allison dies. You can use orchid cure to save Miller. You can still save delegates and stop bombing but you're on a time limit.

Effectively it's a choice between Allison dying midway through or Miller dying at the end.

evilbob

tastydonuts wrote: »

Oh, she also reminds me a lot of Pris. I'm assuming that was very intentional.

edit: spoilered and Pris is from Blade Runner.

Well I know that Miller's appearance was inspired by Rutger Hauer because Roy Batty so

evilbob

AHAHAHAHAHAHA JUST REALISED RE (credits reveal stuff)

MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE

what's the name of the club in the red light district?

HamHamJ

I hope

This Jensen is a clone but original Jensen is the current Janus.

Sneaks

Working on my "I Never Asked For This" run (take two; take one ended when I tried to hop over a frag laser because I'm dumb) and the problem I'm having is that I'm noticing tantalizing new routes but am nervous about trying them out... Managed to cut a lot of steps out of my trip to the CEO's office in the bank though!

Step 1. Be strong enough to carry a dumpster. Leave the bank and go get a dumpster. Bring it into the bank. Everyone will just be cool about this.
Step 2. Place the dumpster at the top of the stairs down to the landing between the CEO's office and the third floor Security office (on the Security office side of the divider).
Step 3. Be able to jump good. Leap from the the dumpster to the vent next to the third floor security office. This is the risky part, because as soon as you enter third floor airspace, guards will perk right up.
Step 4. Get in that vent right quick.

The rest of the route to the CEO's office does not involve carting dumpsters around a bank, and is therefore not special.

evilbob

Sneaks wrote: »

Working on my "I Never Asked For This" run (take two; take one ended when I tried to hop over a frag laser because I'm dumb) and the problem I'm having is that I'm noticing tantalizing new routes but am nervous about trying them out... Managed to cut a lot of steps out of my trip to the CEO's office in the bank though!

Step 1. Be strong enough to carry a dumpster. Leave the bank and go get a dumpster. Bring it into the bank. Everyone will just be cool about this.
Step 2. Place the dumpster at the top of the stairs down to the landing between the CEO's office and the third floor Security office (on the Security office side of the divider).
Step 3. Be able to jump good. Leap from the the dumpster to the vent next to the third floor security office. This is the risky part, because as soon as you enter third floor airspace, guards will perk right up.
Step 4. Get in that vent right quick.

The rest of the route to the CEO's office does not involve carting dumpsters around a bank, and is therefore not special.

I just used the vending machines by the elevator.