Continued Sexism/Gender Identity Intolerance as "not a big deal/just how japan is"
Arcane online policies as "good to protect their consumers"
80 dollar plastic shell to hold two controllers as "necessary to keep up quality plastic"
etc etc
My absolute favorite gem was "I'm glad they release good games at a slow rate, I don't want to be overwhelmed with good games to play"
And this was not in a joking, jovial "oh my god we're drowning in good games right now" sense
They seemed legitimately happy that Nintendo was not overloading them with quality things to play, as they only played games on Nintendo systems
I've also seen "its good they haven't released emulated versions of more recent entries in their catalogue because those versions wouldn't be up to their quality standards", despite high quality emulators for the 64 having been around for a decade
My quibble with that is the environment. All the emulators for N64 are running on x86 and none of Nintendo's HW is that; plus Nintendo's obsessive need to write stand alone emulation for every title to fully recreate every flaw of the original release doesn't help. I think the NES Classic was their test-bed for improving that for the Switch (given both of them use the same processor architecture), so hopefully the VC on the Switch is better in terms of releases and quantity (and price, fuck paying a ton for every title a third time).
Yeah N64 emulators running "good enough" for the average pirate gamer on PCs doesn't translate to "runs to Nintendo's standard of quality on 3DS" and that's a silly false equivalency. I really wish they HAD found a way to make SNES and GBA emulation work on the base 3DS but I don't think their explanation of why they didn't is bullshit at all.
Continued Sexism/Gender Identity Intolerance as "not a big deal/just how japan is"
Arcane online policies as "good to protect their consumers"
80 dollar plastic shell to hold two controllers as "necessary to keep up quality plastic"
etc etc
My absolute favorite gem was "I'm glad they release good games at a slow rate, I don't want to be overwhelmed with good games to play"
And this was not in a joking, jovial "oh my god we're drowning in good games right now" sense
They seemed legitimately happy that Nintendo was not overloading them with quality things to play, as they only played games on Nintendo systems
I've also seen "its good they haven't released emulated versions of more recent entries in their catalogue because those versions wouldn't be up to their quality standards", despite high quality emulators for the 64 having been around for a decade
My quibble with that is the environment. All the emulators for N64 are running on x86 and none of Nintendo's HW is that; plus Nintendo's obsessive need to write stand alone emulation for every title to fully recreate every flaw of the original release doesn't help. I think the NES Classic was their test-bed for improving that for the Switch (given both of them use the same processor architecture), so hopefully the VC on the Switch is better in terms of releases and quantity (and price, fuck paying a ton for every title a third time).
Yeah N64 emulators running "good enough" for the average pirate gamer on PCs doesn't translate to "runs to Nintendo's standard of quality on 3DS" and that's a silly false equivalency. I really wish they HAD found a way to make SNES and GBA emulation work on the base 3DS but I don't think their explanation of why they didn't is bullshit at all.
If only lies could defeat the power of physics, what a world we would live in
In any case, given now nintendo is only targeting a single platform I'd hope that would help with whatever internal VC development teams they have to push out more content. But nintendo is going to nintendo regardless so who knows
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
I fucking love the fact that they came out and went "No Nintendo raked us over the coals for this game in the 90s, no way would we release it on a Nintendo console, fuck them"
It's an incredibly human statement and the idea that they somehow have to adhere to some sort of professionalism in how they rerelease their terrible FMV game is totally bizarre. It actually reminds me a lot of when people got upset at EA for not releasing anything on Wii U.
the only thing I find offputting about the night trap thing is that most of the people at nintendo involved with night trap getting screwed aren't with the company anymore
it's a very human and understandable thing but i'm not always up for punishing people for the mistakes of their predecessors i guess
Whenever this kind of software development stuff comes up the answer is always "I am not aware of the complexities involved".
the more I learn about games the more I appreciate that any of them get out the door at all
in some ways I bet emulation is even more challenging
the easiest explanation I can give is given enough horsepower, you can force any square peg through a round hole. but when you are limited in scope (see: modern PCs vs console hardware) you have to either trim that peg down to a circle somehow, or trick the hole into accepting a square peg without it knowing. anything can be done given enough time and money, but there's always other things competing for your time and money.
sony and microsoft now use the same processor types as PCs, so they get to really take advantage of any emulation work done in the past for PCs. Nintendo is not, but their current hardware choice is still a lot better than their previous hardware so things should be better than in the past.
I admit I'm kind of mystified that we're having an impassioned argument about a statement that was not only made 3 years ago but has also been effectively redacted
Whenever this kind of software development stuff comes up the answer is always "I am not aware of the complexities involved".
the more I learn about games the more I appreciate that any of them get out the door at all
in some ways I bet emulation is even more challenging
Oh it is. Emulators often have to do shit like detecting when certain games are loaded and changing how it processes things because something about how that particular ROM interacted with the original hardware doesn't translate to the emulated version properly. Creating software to approximate hardware is complex. Especially if you want it to run accurately in real time on low-end hardware.
or if the software used tricks that were only available on the original processor or hardware it was speced for and cause serious issues when run elsewhere
LuvTheMonkeyHigh Sierra SerenadeRegistered Userregular
edited April 2017
For me the most impressive thing to come out of this console generation is the 360 BC on the XB1. They must have some fucking wizards in the HyperV group at MS that helped out because I honestly thought that to be way too difficult to pull off for a consumer product. PowerPC virtualization on a x64 CPU is magic
or if the software used tricks that were only available on the original processor or hardware it was speced for and cause serious issues when run elsewhere
There's a ton of this with 80's and early 90's games in particular. Stuff that simply wouldn't have been possible on that hardware normally but by knowing the exact timing of everything that's processed on the hardware they could "hard code" events or triggers. It's fascinating stuff.
Yeah that 360 on XB1 is really good. I mean, if you want to look at something that was crazy look at the original PS3. It had a fucking PS2 cpu and PS1 cpu (which was the PS2's sound processor AFAIK, and how the PS2 emulated PS1 games) crammed in there so they could run PS2 and PS1 games. It was financially unfeasible for them to keep doing that kind of shit, even if it was so awesome to be able to play all the games
I mean, not for nothing does Night Trap LLC hold this grudge, but they also put out a statement on August 15 of 2014 that since people had asked for it, they would add a $20k USD stretch goal that would cover the cost of porting the game ot the Wii U... once they were closer to fulfilling the original goal, anyway
The reason they did this is that there was a larger discussion of which the past couple pages have effectively acted as microcosm, and they were convinced by the arguments that the grudge wasn't worth not bringing the game to Wii U hardware. They were still pissed, but not that pissed. To quote:
To that end, today we applied to become WiiU developers and publishers. We obviously have no idea whether Nintendo will approve the title for its platform, and our developer has told us that porting the game to a two-screen experience is going to cost approximately $20,000 beyond what we’re already going to spend for the other four platforms we're supporting. When we get closer to the end of this campaign, if it looks as if we’re going to succeed, we’ll announce a $20,000 stretch goal, and offer $20 downloads via the Nintendo eShop.
This might in fact be a nice way to end twenty years of animosity between two entities who once worked very well together, and we thank all of you for inspiring this soul searching. Never say never…
One of the most mind-bending feats of backwards compatibility is actually Windows. The amount of shit they do to ensure that you can generally run something on there that was written for Windows 3.1 is insane. You can install the original first release of Windows (or even DOS) and upgrade it all the way to Windows 10 if you have the right disks.
One of the most mind-bending feats of backwards compatibility is actually Windows. The amount of shit they do to ensure that you can generally run something on there that was written for Windows 3.1 is insane. You can install the original first release of Windows (or even DOS) and upgrade it all the way to Windows 10 if you have the right disks.
Microsoft used to (and maybe still does, but I read about this years ago) have a department dedicated to nothing but testing old software on their latest Windows release and creating individual solutions for making it run properly if necessary.
For me the most impressive thing to come out of this console generation is the 360 BC on the XB1. They must have some fucking wizards in the HyperV group at MS that helped out because I honestly thought that to be way too difficult to pull off for a consumer product. PowerPC virtualization on a x64 CPU is magic
It makes me wonder how they did it and what else is theoretically possible!
Whenever this kind of software development stuff comes up the answer is always "I am not aware of the complexities involved".
the more I learn about games the more I appreciate that any of them get out the door at all
in some ways I bet emulation is even more challenging
Oh it is. Emulators often have to do shit like detecting when certain games are loaded and changing how it processes things because something about how that particular ROM interacted with the original hardware doesn't translate to the emulated version properly. Creating software to approximate hardware is complex. Especially if you want it to run accurately in real time on low-end hardware.
And don't forget stuff like the Super FX chip that added hardware inside cartridges for more power
Whenever this kind of software development stuff comes up the answer is always "I am not aware of the complexities involved".
the more I learn about games the more I appreciate that any of them get out the door at all
in some ways I bet emulation is even more challenging
Oh it is. Emulators often have to do shit like detecting when certain games are loaded and changing how it processes things because something about how that particular ROM interacted with the original hardware doesn't translate to the emulated version properly. Creating software to approximate hardware is complex. Especially if you want it to run accurately in real time on low-end hardware.
And don't forget stuff like the Super FX chip that added hardware inside cartridges for more power
Super FX actually introduced a ridiculous non-technical limitation to emulation, too--licensing!
Yeah that 360 on XB1 is really good. I mean, if you want to look at something that was crazy look at the original PS3. It had a fucking PS2 cpu and PS1 cpu (which was the PS2's sound processor AFAIK, and how the PS2 emulated PS1 games) crammed in there so they could run PS2 and PS1 games. It was financially unfeasible for them to keep doing that kind of shit, even if it was so awesome to be able to play all the games
I'm so glad I managed to snag one of the backward compatible PS3s while they were still making them. But yeah, no wonder they released at 600 bucks.
Continued Sexism/Gender Identity Intolerance as "not a big deal/just how japan is"
Arcane online policies as "good to protect their consumers"
80 dollar plastic shell to hold two controllers as "necessary to keep up quality plastic"
etc etc
Yeah, I'm not happy about any of that kind of stuff.
I still think a 23 year old grudge against people who don't work at Nintendo anymore is kinda funny.
Continued Sexism/Gender Identity Intolerance as "not a big deal/just how japan is"
Arcane online policies as "good to protect their consumers"
80 dollar plastic shell to hold two controllers as "necessary to keep up quality plastic"
etc etc
Yeah, I'm not happy about any of that kind of stuff.
I still think a 23 year old grudge against people who don't work at Nintendo anymore is kinda funny.
Those things didn't cost you your business though.
It's entirely different when millions of dollars were on the line.
I'd hold a grudge over that to the grave.
0
Options
GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
Heck I'll hold a grudge over ten dollars.
+2
Options
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
I think it's weirder, honestly, that people keep hammering the idea that the people "at fault" no longer work there anymore, considering how often people even on this very forum ascribe meaning to studios working on games even though the actual people working at that studio have changed.
Continued Sexism/Gender Identity Intolerance as "not a big deal/just how japan is"
Arcane online policies as "good to protect their consumers"
80 dollar plastic shell to hold two controllers as "necessary to keep up quality plastic"
etc etc
Yeah, I'm not happy about any of that kind of stuff.
I still think a 23 year old grudge against people who don't work at Nintendo anymore is kinda funny.
Those things didn't cost you your business though.
It's entirely different when millions of dollars were on the line.
I think it's really funny that Night Trap is getting rereleased at all
So this wrinkle of them being mad at Nintendo is also funny no matter how understandable it is
The funny thing for me is, like...would anybody on Earth have given a shit about Night Trap in the first place if it hadn't been for the controversy? I've certainly never heard it brought up in any other context.
It would still be remembered for being a bizarre FMV game with some minor titillation in it. FMV games have always had a tiny little home in the collective memory of gaming history.
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
I'd like to think that even without the controversy, people remember such fine products as Sewer Shark, Slam City with Scottie Pippen, and the vaunted Make My Video series.
Continued Sexism/Gender Identity Intolerance as "not a big deal/just how japan is"
Arcane online policies as "good to protect their consumers"
80 dollar plastic shell to hold two controllers as "necessary to keep up quality plastic"
etc etc
Yeah, I'm not happy about any of that kind of stuff.
I still think a 23 year old grudge against people who don't work at Nintendo anymore is kinda funny.
I don't know... This wasn't something like a business deal going bad or a game getting cancelled. They were used as an example of "protect the children from this" content in order to shame a competitor in a Senate hearing. That's a fairly big deal. It was a cutthroat move by a company that showed they were willing to do anything in order to hurt their competition.
And I can completely understand holding a 23 year long grudge against the company that approved of that conduct instead of the individuals who did so.
There was a game called like... Texas Shoot Guy Aliens that I always wanted to play. You were looking for a secret moop in a small town and it was a different moop every time.
Posts
Yeah N64 emulators running "good enough" for the average pirate gamer on PCs doesn't translate to "runs to Nintendo's standard of quality on 3DS" and that's a silly false equivalency. I really wish they HAD found a way to make SNES and GBA emulation work on the base 3DS but I don't think their explanation of why they didn't is bullshit at all.
wheras I think its an insanely transparent lie!
In any case, given now nintendo is only targeting a single platform I'd hope that would help with whatever internal VC development teams they have to push out more content. But nintendo is going to nintendo regardless so who knows
It's an incredibly human statement and the idea that they somehow have to adhere to some sort of professionalism in how they rerelease their terrible FMV game is totally bizarre. It actually reminds me a lot of when people got upset at EA for not releasing anything on Wii U.
the more I learn about games the more I appreciate that any of them get out the door at all
in some ways I bet emulation is even more challenging
it's a very human and understandable thing but i'm not always up for punishing people for the mistakes of their predecessors i guess
I'm told that it would frequently be easier simply to code the game from scratch.
the easiest explanation I can give is given enough horsepower, you can force any square peg through a round hole. but when you are limited in scope (see: modern PCs vs console hardware) you have to either trim that peg down to a circle somehow, or trick the hole into accepting a square peg without it knowing. anything can be done given enough time and money, but there's always other things competing for your time and money.
sony and microsoft now use the same processor types as PCs, so they get to really take advantage of any emulation work done in the past for PCs. Nintendo is not, but their current hardware choice is still a lot better than their previous hardware so things should be better than in the past.
Oh it is. Emulators often have to do shit like detecting when certain games are loaded and changing how it processes things because something about how that particular ROM interacted with the original hardware doesn't translate to the emulated version properly. Creating software to approximate hardware is complex. Especially if you want it to run accurately in real time on low-end hardware.
There's a ton of this with 80's and early 90's games in particular. Stuff that simply wouldn't have been possible on that hardware normally but by knowing the exact timing of everything that's processed on the hardware they could "hard code" events or triggers. It's fascinating stuff.
The reason they did this is that there was a larger discussion of which the past couple pages have effectively acted as microcosm, and they were convinced by the arguments that the grudge wasn't worth not bringing the game to Wii U hardware. They were still pissed, but not that pissed. To quote:
Microsoft used to (and maybe still does, but I read about this years ago) have a department dedicated to nothing but testing old software on their latest Windows release and creating individual solutions for making it run properly if necessary.
It makes me wonder how they did it and what else is theoretically possible!
I believe it was called... Burnout Crash
That was a weird top-down thing that kinda sucked, this would be behind-the-back standard driving game
And don't forget stuff like the Super FX chip that added hardware inside cartridges for more power
3DS: 2019-9671-8106 NNID: RamblinMushroom
Twitter/Tumblr
Super FX actually introduced a ridiculous non-technical limitation to emulation, too--licensing!
I'm so glad I managed to snag one of the backward compatible PS3s while they were still making them. But yeah, no wonder they released at 600 bucks.
Yeah, I'm not happy about any of that kind of stuff.
I still think a 23 year old grudge against people who don't work at Nintendo anymore is kinda funny.
Those things didn't cost you your business though.
It's entirely different when millions of dollars were on the line.
I'd hold a grudge over that to the grave.
3DS: 2019-9671-8106 NNID: RamblinMushroom
Twitter/Tumblr
i'll hold a grudge for someone else for 10 dollars
feel free to pm
It would still be remembered for being a bizarre FMV game with some minor titillation in it. FMV games have always had a tiny little home in the collective memory of gaming history.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Get on Forza Horizon 3 instead
Steam
Holy shit, I never wanted to get Horizon 3 more than right now.
I don't know... This wasn't something like a business deal going bad or a game getting cancelled. They were used as an example of "protect the children from this" content in order to shame a competitor in a Senate hearing. That's a fairly big deal. It was a cutthroat move by a company that showed they were willing to do anything in order to hurt their competition.
And I can completely understand holding a 23 year long grudge against the company that approved of that conduct instead of the individuals who did so.
It's the only thing that comes to mind with 'looking for person that changes every game'.