yeah, I'm getting a little better at not getting frustrated, even in competitive. helps that if a round is going to go badly, I generally know pretty quickly and can adjust my expectations accordingly, and in close matches, I'm generally actually having fun and appreciating when anyone makes a good play, even if it's someone on the other team managing a quadruple kill
like, I generally know where my skill level's at, and as long as people are actually playing the game, I'm not gonna get as bothered anymore. except in the 1 on 1 mode, where I know that everything bad that happens is my fault, and then it's safe to yell at the one responsible
yeah this is me
getting to Master is a very distant goal for me, but overall I'm pretty happy with where my skills are at and just wanna focus on getting better at other heroes too, so that I can flex for the folks who always flex around me
VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited June 2017
I think the conversation about Sombra's ult was in here, so here's another example of it being amazing, at least in Rounds 3 and 4: https://youtu.be/vwgdp9EOSQw
Holy cow. So I'm doing 3v3 for arcade boxes, and in one match we lost 2 rounds to 3, but the 2 rounds we won, we must have won them in less than 8 seconds each. Like not hyperbole. First one was a Pharah double boop to rocket combo, second was a bastion/roadhog tag team. I've never won a round so fast. If only we'd actually won the match...
i feel like the play of the game algorithms are the strongest argument against ranked rewards taking "performance" into account
I got POTG earlier today for a quintuple kill as Torb where all five of the kills occurred after I died
and in a 3v3 when I managed to boop their whole team as Pharah, our Hanzo got POTG for an obviously random headshot on a midair Mercy after missing his first five shots
I did that once and was actually vocalizing to my team over voice chat how crazy it was that I got Bastion again.
three things cheese me off in mystery heroes
1. picking someone at the start and actually getting that hero
2. getting the same hero again after you die (even if i'm good with them)
3. the enemy team either being on point b or at the very end of an escort map and getting like three bastions and two torbs or something
+1
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TonkkaSome one in the club tonightHas stolen my ideas.Registered Userregular
Mystery heroes can be frustratingly hilarious. Yesterday the opposing team was:
Mercy
Mercy
Zarya
Zarya
Lucio
Reaper
We tried, we tried very so very hard. We didn't get a single healer until the last minute.
I did that once and was actually vocalizing to my team over voice chat how crazy it was that I got Bastion again.
three things cheese me off in mystery heroes
1. picking someone at the start and actually getting that hero
2. getting the same hero again after you die (even if i'm good with them)
3. the enemy team either being on point b or at the very end of an escort map and getting like three bastions and two torbs or something
Steamrolling all the way to the final 40 feet of route 66 and they roll 2 rein 2 lucio 2 mercy. That one got to me last night.
The worst is when you get 2 to 3 Mercys and you get the Heroes Never Die chains rolling
once this happened to me on...route 66 and they were unstoppable until I got switched to winston and they had...no idea how to handle it, apparently, like, turns out if you jump on top of three mercies, there's not a TON they can do
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
I fought against 2 Mercy and 2 Zarya the other night. Their Winston got rezzed like 5 times. Everything always had a bubble, a health beam attached, or was dead and immediately rezzed.
Then we got 3 mercys on Eichenwalde and didn't give up the first point even though they got on it many many times.
Then I got to be the pocket Mercy to two Pharahs at once on Anubis attack. The three of us didn't die and we steamrolled them. That was fun.
I was trying to get ReLive to record properly (it was having audio sync issues) and got this non-ult torb potg. I have no reason for why I wasn't shooting constantly.
TonkkaSome one in the club tonightHas stolen my ideas.Registered Userregular
My favorite thing from last night was throwing a trap down randomly and almost immediately an invisible Sombra triggered it while most of the opposing team was on respawn.
I always forget that Junky has a trap. And I never use it with the mine.
Am I a bad junkrat? I prefer to use the mine as a lobbed bomb.
I used to forget about the mine a lot, now I toss it around willy-nilly during fights, and someone usually walks into it. And sometimes I remember to toss it with a purpose, like in front of a health pack or on top of Sombra's teleport beacon.
KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
You should always have a trap out along some path, even if you aren't taking the time to place it cleverly just as long as it is in a place where people commonly walk
I'm hardly going to disagree with unfair toxicity towards women in online games, including overwatch, but this article's argument that basically the only reason that people dislike Mercy is reaching awfully far. Like the argument basically boils down to, "Lots of women play support" + "there's complaints about Mercy" = "therefore the complaints are based on misogyny."
Like, it even quotes a lot of the actual arguments - unlike other heroes mastering Mercy doesn't tend to translate over to other heroes or roles, her passive "hide somewhere and sweep in with rez" playstyle isn't really fun for anyone involved, a lower skill ceiling, a tendency for high-level Mercy players to be one-tricks. But the article just waves its hand and says nono, it's sexism. Because only women play Mercy??
Like, I find high level players and their obsession with mechanical skill as tiring as the next guy (these are the guys who insisted that Winston sucked until Miro destroyed everyone with him at the world cup), but those complaints about Mercy are made whether it's a man or woman playing the character. And they're based on real arguments about fundamental game design.
By all means criticize sexism when it's sexism, but this article just points to some generic online sexism, and then handwaves a connection from that to complaints about gameplay design, without ever really making a real case for it. Which comes across as especially weak when they're quoting Seagull, who's like the least toxic dude on the internet.
Kana on
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I'm hardly going to disagree with unfair toxicity towards women in online games, including overwatch, but this article's argument that basically the only reason that people dislike Mercy is reaching awfully far. Like the argument basically boils down to, "Lots of women play support" + "there's complaints about Mercy" = "therefore the complaints are based on misogyny."
Try "Lots of women play support" + "Mercy is probably the best support character" + "People abuse women in online games = Fair Question: How much of Mercy hate is based on misogyny?"
Like, it even quotes a lot of the actual arguments - unlike other heroes mastering Mercy doesn't tend to translate over to other heroes or roles
a tendency for high-level Mercy players to be one-tricks
a lower skill ceiling
Isn't that all the exact same argument? Except increasingly condescending?
If Mercy doesn't translate over to other heroes or roles than a) its likely that people who have learned Mercy won't as easily transport those skills to other roles and therefore, given the general dearth of support players, will likely stick to Mercy a lot, and b) if Mercy doesn't translate over to other heroes or roles because of how different her style of play is, then by what metric are people saying that she has a lower skill ceiling?
Because without some pretty solid support, just in those three variations of reference, we can see the devolution from acknowledging that some characters just play differently, to demeaning people who play a specialist character.
By all means criticize sexism when it's sexism, but this article just points to some generic online sexism
First, wow, being able to talk about `generic online sexism' so dismissively probably says a bit about your own perspective? Its always personal, not very generic.
Second, the article clearly refers to sexism in the context not just of Overwatch, but of playing Mercy as a woman.
and then handwaves a connection from that to complaints about gameplay design, without ever really making a real case for it.
I reckon we'd all love to see a cohesive counter-argument that separates `complaint about game design' from `lol mercy is cheap and unba no wonder shitty girl gamers play her', because I reckon a lot of people spouting the latter will claim the former when pressed.
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited June 2017
a problem I've encountered over the last week or so is getting teams full of Support mains, which means someone has to play someone with whom they have less experience
there are times this doesn't become an issue, but it absolutely feels like we're not at optimum performance purely because we have 2 Mercy mains, 1 Ana main, and 1 Lucio main (plus me, the Zenny main) on the team
which just means less experience (not necessarily skill) in comp translating into reduced likelihood of success
but that argument can be made for literally any class, not just Supports; I just think Supports get targeted because their contribution to the game doesn't always appear in the killfeed or in the medals system
meanwhile, lots of people who obviously don't play a lot of Support forget that we can see you THROUGH WALLS EVEN, which means we can see every mistake you're making, and I find it a fucking LAUGH when they try to accuse me of being a shit healer when I can see the stupid things they do even when they're out of my LoS
like, I saw you pop your Deflect when the only person back there is a Symmetra
I saw you get that flashbang deflected back at you
I saw you chase down that Zenny and get wrecked
I saw you recall into open space and die
I've been spamming heals on you even as you stand still and get rocketed to the face by a Pharah (this is actually true; this McCree was being healed by both me as Mercy and my mate on Ana and he still died and yelled at us for not healing him, even though the damage-boosted Pharah was focussing him down, he just stood still in open space)
but, you know, I'M the shit one for not healing you (his actual words - "what do I have to get a heal from this fucking Mercy")
I'm hardly going to disagree with unfair toxicity towards women in online games, including overwatch, but this article's argument that basically the only reason that people dislike Mercy is reaching awfully far. Like the argument basically boils down to, "Lots of women play support" + "there's complaints about Mercy" = "therefore the complaints are based on misogyny."
Like, it even quotes a lot of the actual arguments - unlike other heroes mastering Mercy doesn't tend to translate over to other heroes or roles, her passive "hide somewhere and sweep in with rez" playstyle isn't really fun for anyone involved, a lower skill ceiling, a tendency for high-level Mercy players to be one-tricks. But the article just waves its hand and says nono, it's sexism. Because only women play Mercy??
Like, I find high level players and their obsession with mechanical skill as tiring as the next guy (these are the guys who insisted that Winston sucked until Miro destroyed everyone with him at the world cup), but those complaints about Mercy are made whether it's a man or woman playing the character. And they're based on real arguments about fundamental game design.
By all means criticize sexism when it's sexism, but this article just points to some generic online sexism, and then handwaves a connection from that to complaints about gameplay design, without ever really making a real case for it. Which comes across as especially weak when they're quoting Seagull, who's like the least toxic dude on the internet.
I actually disagree with you on this one, and I'm aware you and I are usually on the same page about most things. I reckon the abuse against Mercy mains would not be as pronounced if it wasn't that many women playing Support.
And, interestingly, lots of women play Support because we're told in many different ways (overtly and subversively) that we're not good enough to DPS. So, yeah, way to tell us that we're only good with a "no-skill" hero and then NOT LET US PLAY ANYONE ELSE EITHER. You can't win, and you better believe women absolutely see a higher rate of this than men.
Like, it even stems back to people being surprised I'm a Support main but I don't play a lot of Mercy. They mean it as a compliment to me, but that's some backhanded shit there, too.
Watch a few GM OW streamers for a while and any notion that the Mercy hate is not steeped in misogyny is completely blown away.
Every time a woman is heard playing Mercy, it starts. Every single time. Not always from the streamers (but it often is), but the chat turns into an even bigger shitshow than normal.
Way too many guys just cannot handle the fact that a woman, especially one playing a hero that doesn't centre around killing anything, can somehow dare to be in the top skill tier of a game.
The idea that there's no skill involved with being good at Mercy is just absurd. There's no aiming, but like that essay said, there's a lot you have to keep track of to be effective, it isn't just clicking shit at random. And some of the difficulty is based on how well your team is playing, sure, but you can absolutely tell the difference between someone good at Mercy and someone bad at Mercy
We just need the assholes to learn to stop being such toxic wastes of carbon based life. I guess I've successfully insulated myself within a community that values the feelings and humanity of everyone around us because if we're in a group and some jackass starts with the misogynistic or racist or whatever newfound hate spigot they've discovered, we're all pretty quick and effective at shutting it down, and if that fails we just leave and take our party (in all senses of the word) elsewhere.
I find that article has good points being made on both the social justice side of pointing out the grossness that can be found in gaming culture and also in the general malaise in Overwatch about one tricks and the derision that occurs when one appears on your team. The problem I have is trying to weave those two things together into one article just lowers the impact of both points. You can try to say one is affecting the other, but really, one point is about character design and the other point is about how our society continues to not be a perfect place for nearly anyone to just be comfortable without some sort of attack being just around the corner nearly everywhere we turn.
So, I'll just keep trying my best to make my sphere of influence just a bit more positive for others to join the party. And I'll play whatever character is fun for me and hopefully that gels with the team comp and Jeff doesn't nerf everything I like.
+1
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MrMonroepassed outon the floor nowRegistered Userregular
Playing Mercy is deeply unenjoyable for me explicitly because I'm sitting behind my team going "that's dumb. why are you doing that? I'm not going to follow you if you go out there"
and then they go out there
and they die
and they yell at you for not going out there to die with them because clearly all they needed to go 1v4 was a mercy healing them
There is definitely a lot of skill involved with playing all healers, because I'm shit at each and every one of them. Also I've never made a connection between girls and healers.
I'll also second that there isn't a lot of skill translation between any class, and in a lot of cases characters within a class. Being a good McCree is way different than being a good Genji. My Rein/tank skills, which are easily diamond do not make me diamond at any other class. I fall to play quite easily when not playing Dva or Rein almost exclusively.
Anyway, any Mercy hate I have is directed at how frequently her ult seems to be up, and how pushes just don't happen unless someone on your team can get her. Which is super frustrating if you're not the dps, now everyone on your team is playing the blame game because your Genji couldn't kill the Mercy on the last 3 pushes and she resed every time.
yeah, Mercy's hard for me because I'm generally solo queuing on a console, so I'm essentially at the whims of whatever the people I'm playing with want to do. nothing is more frustrating than standing behind a reinhardt at hanamura who won't go through the fucking gate, like...with lucio or zenyatta I can generally, at least, shoot someone
Posts
hanzo....widowmaker...a bastion potg...
though i did hit a couple of stupid shots with hanzo that made me feel good
one was on a genji in the middle of a quick strike
yeah this is me
getting to Master is a very distant goal for me, but overall I'm pretty happy with where my skills are at and just wanna focus on getting better at other heroes too, so that I can flex for the folks who always flex around me
a mcree ulting while i was already shooting him, for a "shutdown"
I got POTG earlier today for a quintuple kill as Torb where all five of the kills occurred after I died
and in a 3v3 when I managed to boop their whole team as Pharah, our Hanzo got POTG for an obviously random headshot on a midair Mercy after missing his first five shots
"sharpshooter"
I did that once and was actually vocalizing to my team over voice chat how crazy it was that I got Bastion again.
three things cheese me off in mystery heroes
1. picking someone at the start and actually getting that hero
2. getting the same hero again after you die (even if i'm good with them)
3. the enemy team either being on point b or at the very end of an escort map and getting like three bastions and two torbs or something
Mercy
Mercy
Zarya
Zarya
Lucio
Reaper
We tried, we tried very so very hard. We didn't get a single healer until the last minute.
A friend and I got a 76, two Lucios, and three Zenyattas on Nepal during Annivesary.
Somehow, against all odds, only the 76 died during that round and we won overall. (He came back as a Symmetra)
Steamrolling all the way to the final 40 feet of route 66 and they roll 2 rein 2 lucio 2 mercy. That one got to me last night.
once this happened to me on...route 66 and they were unstoppable until I got switched to winston and they had...no idea how to handle it, apparently, like, turns out if you jump on top of three mercies, there's not a TON they can do
then it becomes Team With No Ults vs. Team With All the Ults
Then we got 3 mercys on Eichenwalde and didn't give up the first point even though they got on it many many times.
Then I got to be the pocket Mercy to two Pharahs at once on Anubis attack. The three of us didn't die and we steamrolled them. That was fun.
Boom.
Am I a bad junkrat? I prefer to use the mine as a lobbed bomb.
I used to forget about the mine a lot, now I toss it around willy-nilly during fights, and someone usually walks into it. And sometimes I remember to toss it with a purpose, like in front of a health pack or on top of Sombra's teleport beacon.
I'm hardly going to disagree with unfair toxicity towards women in online games, including overwatch, but this article's argument that basically the only reason that people dislike Mercy is reaching awfully far. Like the argument basically boils down to, "Lots of women play support" + "there's complaints about Mercy" = "therefore the complaints are based on misogyny."
Like, it even quotes a lot of the actual arguments - unlike other heroes mastering Mercy doesn't tend to translate over to other heroes or roles, her passive "hide somewhere and sweep in with rez" playstyle isn't really fun for anyone involved, a lower skill ceiling, a tendency for high-level Mercy players to be one-tricks. But the article just waves its hand and says nono, it's sexism. Because only women play Mercy??
Like, I find high level players and their obsession with mechanical skill as tiring as the next guy (these are the guys who insisted that Winston sucked until Miro destroyed everyone with him at the world cup), but those complaints about Mercy are made whether it's a man or woman playing the character. And they're based on real arguments about fundamental game design.
By all means criticize sexism when it's sexism, but this article just points to some generic online sexism, and then handwaves a connection from that to complaints about gameplay design, without ever really making a real case for it. Which comes across as especially weak when they're quoting Seagull, who's like the least toxic dude on the internet.
Isn't that all the exact same argument? Except increasingly condescending?
If Mercy doesn't translate over to other heroes or roles than a) its likely that people who have learned Mercy won't as easily transport those skills to other roles and therefore, given the general dearth of support players, will likely stick to Mercy a lot, and b) if Mercy doesn't translate over to other heroes or roles because of how different her style of play is, then by what metric are people saying that she has a lower skill ceiling?
Because without some pretty solid support, just in those three variations of reference, we can see the devolution from acknowledging that some characters just play differently, to demeaning people who play a specialist character.
First, wow, being able to talk about `generic online sexism' so dismissively probably says a bit about your own perspective? Its always personal, not very generic.
Second, the article clearly refers to sexism in the context not just of Overwatch, but of playing Mercy as a woman.
I reckon we'd all love to see a cohesive counter-argument that separates `complaint about game design' from `lol mercy is cheap and unba no wonder shitty girl gamers play her', because I reckon a lot of people spouting the latter will claim the former when pressed.
there are times this doesn't become an issue, but it absolutely feels like we're not at optimum performance purely because we have 2 Mercy mains, 1 Ana main, and 1 Lucio main (plus me, the Zenny main) on the team
which just means less experience (not necessarily skill) in comp translating into reduced likelihood of success
but that argument can be made for literally any class, not just Supports; I just think Supports get targeted because their contribution to the game doesn't always appear in the killfeed or in the medals system
meanwhile, lots of people who obviously don't play a lot of Support forget that we can see you THROUGH WALLS EVEN, which means we can see every mistake you're making, and I find it a fucking LAUGH when they try to accuse me of being a shit healer when I can see the stupid things they do even when they're out of my LoS
like, I saw you pop your Deflect when the only person back there is a Symmetra
I saw you get that flashbang deflected back at you
I saw you chase down that Zenny and get wrecked
I saw you recall into open space and die
I've been spamming heals on you even as you stand still and get rocketed to the face by a Pharah (this is actually true; this McCree was being healed by both me as Mercy and my mate on Ana and he still died and yelled at us for not healing him, even though the damage-boosted Pharah was focussing him down, he just stood still in open space)
but, you know, I'M the shit one for not healing you (his actual words - "what do I have to get a heal from this fucking Mercy")
yeah, whatever, gfy
I actually disagree with you on this one, and I'm aware you and I are usually on the same page about most things. I reckon the abuse against Mercy mains would not be as pronounced if it wasn't that many women playing Support.
And, interestingly, lots of women play Support because we're told in many different ways (overtly and subversively) that we're not good enough to DPS. So, yeah, way to tell us that we're only good with a "no-skill" hero and then NOT LET US PLAY ANYONE ELSE EITHER. You can't win, and you better believe women absolutely see a higher rate of this than men.
Like, it even stems back to people being surprised I'm a Support main but I don't play a lot of Mercy. They mean it as a compliment to me, but that's some backhanded shit there, too.
Every time a woman is heard playing Mercy, it starts. Every single time. Not always from the streamers (but it often is), but the chat turns into an even bigger shitshow than normal.
Way too many guys just cannot handle the fact that a woman, especially one playing a hero that doesn't centre around killing anything, can somehow dare to be in the top skill tier of a game.
I find that article has good points being made on both the social justice side of pointing out the grossness that can be found in gaming culture and also in the general malaise in Overwatch about one tricks and the derision that occurs when one appears on your team. The problem I have is trying to weave those two things together into one article just lowers the impact of both points. You can try to say one is affecting the other, but really, one point is about character design and the other point is about how our society continues to not be a perfect place for nearly anyone to just be comfortable without some sort of attack being just around the corner nearly everywhere we turn.
So, I'll just keep trying my best to make my sphere of influence just a bit more positive for others to join the party. And I'll play whatever character is fun for me and hopefully that gels with the team comp and Jeff doesn't nerf everything I like.
and then they go out there
and they die
and they yell at you for not going out there to die with them because clearly all they needed to go 1v4 was a mercy healing them
I watched a Mercy stall out a Roadhog on 3v3 until she had enough to Rez her teammate and I'm just like "oh, braVO"
I'll also second that there isn't a lot of skill translation between any class, and in a lot of cases characters within a class. Being a good McCree is way different than being a good Genji. My Rein/tank skills, which are easily diamond do not make me diamond at any other class. I fall to play quite easily when not playing Dva or Rein almost exclusively.
Anyway, any Mercy hate I have is directed at how frequently her ult seems to be up, and how pushes just don't happen unless someone on your team can get her. Which is super frustrating if you're not the dps, now everyone on your team is playing the blame game because your Genji couldn't kill the Mercy on the last 3 pushes and she resed every time.