Shooting at congressional baseball practice in Alexandria, Virginia

Viskod

Hakkekage wrote: »

I am bitterly reminded that the level of damage could have been limited significantly if it were much harder to be toting around guns

I'm not a gun person, but a rifle is a pretty big gun, right? It's not easily concealed? How did a guy carrying a gun like that end up in the dugout of a baseball field with a bunch of Congresspeople without anyone seeing the gun?

I really hope, now that they have been victims of an actual mass shooting it causes some of these people to realize "Oh shit. It's really easy for someone to just walk up and start shooting you in America!"

Rep. Barton especially. His sons were there, and thankfully weren't injured but I have to believe that this incident causes him to think more about parents who weren't as lucky and have lost children in shootings, plead with their representatives for something, anything, to help stop things like this from happening and get cold shoulders from the Republican party.

iTunesIsEvil

So It Goes wrote: »

Edith Upwards wrote: »

Prison planet asshole says the dude is a 60 year old, socialist small business owner.

They're already trying to tie this to the Russia investigation.

Who is? Cite.

I'm guessing "Prison planet asshole" is "Joseph Paul Watson" ("PrisonPlanet" on Twitter, "InfoWars Editor-at-large"). A sampling of one his tweets from this morning (it's a screencap from a writer for Wired):

https://twitter.com/ashleyfeinberg/status/874969703176916993

So It Goes

Edith Upwards wrote: »

https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/875002936190844928

Paul Joseph Watson is a horrible fucking ghoul who has advocated putting his enemies in death camps.

Well I'm not sure why anyone should take what he says seriously. If signing a petition = radicalized we're all in a load of trouble I guess.

Nobeard

Hakkekage wrote: »

Majority leader says Scalise is out of surgery
House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) said lawmakers are set to learn more about the shooter during an all-members’ briefing later this morning.

A visibly emotional McCarthy said that House Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.) is out of surgery and that he knows the two Capitol Police officers injured. He described them as “amazing individuals” who saved the lives of lawmakers.

“If you talk to the members who were there, they will tell you they went out into the fire to draw the fire,” McCarthy said. “The shooter was moving toward the dugout where the members were and they were able to take him down.”

McCarthy said he was in the House gym when he learned the news and rushed to his Capitol office to learn more. He remained in the office suite of Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) later in the morning receiving updates.

As House majority leader, McCarthy controls the schedule; he said that committee hearings can resume this afternoon but that floor action won’t resume until tomorrow. He also wouldn’t say whether he thinks the Congressional Baseball Game should proceed as scheduled tomorrow night.

Asked about Scalise, McCarthy started to well up.

“I’ve known Steve since Young Republicans. Long before we ever served in the House,” he said before walking away.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/2017/live-updates/public-safety/updates-shooting-at-congressional-baseball-practice-in-virginia/majority-leader-says-scalise-is-out-of-surgery/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_axliveblog-835a:prime-time/promo&utm_term=.34ae8debb1f9

if he's out of surgery he's probably ok? I don't know, there hasn't been a report on where exactly he'd been shot

Those officers have a kind of courage that is, frankly, beyond my comprehension. Legit heroes.

Jubal77

So It Goes wrote: »

Edith Upwards wrote: »

https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/875002936190844928

Paul Joseph Watson is a horrible fucking ghoul who has advocated putting his enemies in death camps.

Well I'm not sure why anyone should take what he says seriously. If signing a petition = radicalized we're all in a load of trouble I guess.

I mean if I were to speculate the "The GOP Left Me" group would clearly show he was a disenfranchised right leaning individual. But that would be ridiculous.

Raynaga

Honest first reaction? "That's horrible. Maybe they'll finally do something about gun control."

Initial reports are indicating this was a 60+ year old out of work guy, not a Navy SEAL. They had an armed security detail. And all the witness reports I'm reading have them outgunned by Bob your neighbor.

Maybe that makes me awful, I don't know. But I remember when Giffords happened and the litany of "If someone with a gun was there, nothing would have happened"

I do hope everyone makes it through. I just also hope maybe, just maybe, the personal impact gives some weight to the idea that it isn't a great idea for anyone to be able to talk into a building and leave with something that can throw out 50-100 shots in a short time frame.

Viskod

Oh well, I spoke too soon.

Just now on MSNBC one of the Reps who was on the field went right to "This is what happens when people say things like 'this legislation will cause people do die'." Just right to criticizing Democrats who have correctly called out Republican healthcare reforms.

SniperGuy

Viskod wrote: »

Hakkekage wrote: »

I am bitterly reminded that the level of damage could have been limited significantly if it were much harder to be toting around guns

I'm not a gun person, but a rifle is a pretty big gun, right? It's not easily concealed? How did a guy carrying a gun like that end up in the dugout of a baseball field with a bunch of Congresspeople without anyone seeing the gun?

I really hope, now that they have been victims of an actual mass shooting it causes some of these people to realize "Oh shit. It's really easy for someone to just walk up and start shooting you in America!"

Rep. Barton especially. His sons were there, and thankfully weren't injured but I have to believe that this incident causes him to think more about parents who weren't as lucky and have lost children in shootings, plead with their representatives for something, anything, to help stop things like this from happening and get cold shoulders from the Republican party.

Unfortunately, the quotes I'm seeing are more along the lines of "if only we had brought our guns!"

"We had nothing but baseball bats to fight back against a rifle with," Brooks said.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/politics/alexandria-virginia-shooting/index.html

Also Trump is going to speak in 20 minutes or so?

Waffles or whatever

Hmm. Hope this doesn't become the norm soon. We had that woman earlier this year try to run a GOP Congressmen off the road in her vehicle and now this. Nothing good comes from assassination attempts.

Xaquin

Viskod wrote: »

Oh well, I spoke too soon.

Just now on MSNBC one of the Reps who was on the field went right to "This is what happens when people say things like 'this legislation will cause people do die'." Just right to criticizing Democrats who have correctly called out Republican healthcare reforms.

I'm honestly surprised it took them over an hour

kaid

OptimusZed wrote: »

They're saying that Scalise being there probably saved lives, since he's part of leadership and has a capitol police escort.

A few were very specific that they felt the only reason they survived was due to scalise having his security detail being there. Without them they said on the open baseball area there would have been nothing to stop the guy from just walking up and killing everybody.

Edith Upwards

Note how the dude is already a terrorist. If the situation were reversed, we know how this would work.

Viskod

Edith Upwards wrote: »

Note how the dude is already a terrorist. If the situation were reversed, we know how this would work.

Troubled, mentally ill, poor man. Unfortunate for all.

hsu

m!ttens wrote: »

From WaPo

Washington Post wrote:

The shooter at the GOP congressional baseball practice this morning is James T. Hodgkinson of Belleville, Ill., according to multiple law enforcement sources. Hodgkinson, 66, owns a home inspection business. His home inspection license expired in November 2016 and was not renewed, state records show.

Hodgkinson was charged in April 2006 with battery and aiding damage to a motor vehicle, according to online records in St. Clair County, Illinois. The charges were dismissed, records show.

You can look up the shooter on facebook - it's very easy to confirm it's the same guy, as the details released by law enforcement is pretty specific. Let's just say that the politics he espoused match the stereotype you'd expect for someone who targeted republican congressmen.

Mayabird

Nobeard wrote: »

I'm not a mod so the most I can do is ask: please let's not go into political discussion AT THIS TIME. Political fallout is important and we will do that part later. I have the same sour feeling in my gut about what Trump and GOP will do, but they ain't done nothing yet. More importantly, it's inappropriate to politicize this incident when there are victims freshly in the hospital. Let's be a little stoic for now.

EDIT: If Trump et al politicize this too soon, then we shouldn't ignore that. Ugh.

The right is already gearing up to make the left at fault, no matter what the actual facts might end up being, making up shit if it serves their position at this moment. They are always chopping at the bit, looking for an excuse to politicize everything and everything. We in fact must do this as a matter of defense, because if we do not then the right owns the narrative. If you want to get mad, get mad at them for making us have to do this.

Pellaeon

Uh, er, why do we care what prison planet dude thinks? I'm sure he's a top notch internet detective, but if we want to see what the bowels of the Internet think about this we can just head to their respective sites.

Could we at least wait until an official source releases some info on the guy?

Preacher

Waffen wrote: »

Hmm. Hope this doesn't become the norm soon. We had that woman earlier this year try to run a GOP Congressmen off the road in her vehicle and now this. Nothing good comes from assassination attempts.

Its not just the GOP there was a democrat running for congress that withdrew due to death threats.

iTunesIsEvil

hsu wrote: »

m!ttens wrote: »

From WaPo

Washington Post wrote:

The shooter at the GOP congressional baseball practice this morning is James T. Hodgkinson of Belleville, Ill., according to multiple law enforcement sources. Hodgkinson, 66, owns a home inspection business. His home inspection license expired in November 2016 and was not renewed, state records show.

Hodgkinson was charged in April 2006 with battery and aiding damage to a motor vehicle, according to online records in St. Clair County, Illinois. The charges were dismissed, records show.

You can look up the shooter on facebook - it's very easy to confirm it's the same guy, as the details released by law enforcement is pretty specific. Let's just say that the politics he espoused match the stereotype you'd expect for someone who targeted republican congressmen.

Oh, share unto us your great knowledge regarding what someone who targets Republican congressmen is like on the Facebooks.

:rotate:

Xaquin

hsu wrote: »

m!ttens wrote: »

From WaPo

Washington Post wrote:

The shooter at the GOP congressional baseball practice this morning is James T. Hodgkinson of Belleville, Ill., according to multiple law enforcement sources. Hodgkinson, 66, owns a home inspection business. His home inspection license expired in November 2016 and was not renewed, state records show.

Hodgkinson was charged in April 2006 with battery and aiding damage to a motor vehicle, according to online records in St. Clair County, Illinois. The charges were dismissed, records show.

You can look up the shooter on facebook - it's very easy to confirm it's the same guy, as the details released by law enforcement is pretty specific. Let's just say that the politics he espoused match the stereotype you'd expect for someone who targeted republican congressmen.

I would not have expected a Bernie supporter at all to be honest

Hakkekage

Pellaeon wrote: »

Uh, er, why do we care what prison planet dude thinks? I'm sure he's a top notch internet detective, but if we want to see what the bowels of the Internet think about this we can just head to their respective sites.

Could we at least wait until an official source releases some info on the guy?

The spin machine is already up and running and getting talking heads on major news networks is why

So It Goes

Mayabird wrote: »

Nobeard wrote: »

I'm not a mod so the most I can do is ask: please let's not go into political discussion AT THIS TIME. Political fallout is important and we will do that part later. I have the same sour feeling in my gut about what Trump and GOP will do, but they ain't done nothing yet. More importantly, it's inappropriate to politicize this incident when there are victims freshly in the hospital. Let's be a little stoic for now.

EDIT: If Trump et al politicize this too soon, then we shouldn't ignore that. Ugh.

The right is already gearing up to make the left at fault, no matter what the actual facts might end up being, making up shit if it serves their position at this moment. They are always chopping at the bit, looking for an excuse to politicize everything and everything. We in fact have to do this as a matter of defense. If you want to get mad, get mad at them.

It's fine to react to actual things actual people are saying about this.

This is not a thread to discuss how awful Republicans are, though

Hakkekage wrote: »

Pellaeon wrote: »

Uh, er, why do we care what prison planet dude thinks? I'm sure he's a top notch internet detective, but if we want to see what the bowels of the Internet think about this we can just head to their respective sites.

Could we at least wait until an official source releases some info on the guy?

The spin machine is already up and running and getting talking heads on major news networks is why

That dude isn't a pundit, he's a troll.

Hakkekage

BTW Sanders as a terse statement released:

11:13 AM

Sanders: ‘We’ve got to stop the violence’
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) issued a statement about the shooting:

“Our prayers go out for a full recovery of Rep. Scalise, the congressional aides and police officers who were injured. We’ve got to stop the violence.”

An acquaintance of James T. Hodkinson III, who has been identified by law enforcement officials as the shooter, said they met while campaigning for Sanders.

from WaPo

This is almost certainly going to be seized on and unfortunately that brief and broad statement isn't going to do a lot.

Edith Upwards

So It Goes wrote: »

Mayabird wrote: »

Nobeard wrote: »

I'm not a mod so the most I can do is ask: please let's not go into political discussion AT THIS TIME. Political fallout is important and we will do that part later. I have the same sour feeling in my gut about what Trump and GOP will do, but they ain't done nothing yet. More importantly, it's inappropriate to politicize this incident when there are victims freshly in the hospital. Let's be a little stoic for now.

EDIT: If Trump et al politicize this too soon, then we shouldn't ignore that. Ugh.

The right is already gearing up to make the left at fault, no matter what the actual facts might end up being, making up shit if it serves their position at this moment. They are always chopping at the bit, looking for an excuse to politicize everything and everything. We in fact have to do this as a matter of defense. If you want to get mad, get mad at them.

It's fine to react to actual things actual people are saying about this.

This is not a thread to discuss how awful Republicans are, though

Hakkekage wrote: »

Pellaeon wrote: »

Uh, er, why do we care what prison planet dude thinks? I'm sure he's a top notch internet detective, but if we want to see what the bowels of the Internet think about this we can just head to their respective sites.

Could we at least wait until an official source releases some info on the guy?

The spin machine is already up and running and getting talking heads on major news networks is why

That dude isn't a pundit, he's a troll.

You just repeated yourself.

So It Goes

Please do not take it upon yourselves to Internet sleuth this guys FB profile,btw.

TL DR

Preacher wrote: »

Waffen wrote: »

Hmm. Hope this doesn't become the norm soon. We had that woman earlier this year try to run a GOP Congressmen off the road in her vehicle and now this. Nothing good comes from assassination attempts.

Its not just the GOP there was a democrat running for congress that withdrew due to death threats.

Also Gabby Gifford, etc. This isn't new, it's just new from the Democrat-leaning side.

So It Goes wrote: »

TL DR wrote: »

It's important to decry this sort of thing because it's anathema to a functioning democracy and begets reciprocity (though the right doesn't need any excuse, as recent US history shows).

We can hope for silver linings in the form of real progress on gun control or Scalise not returning to Congress, but the realpolitik is likely to be messy and thoroughly depressing.

That's a pretty gross thing to say!

It's a pretty gross situation! I don't know that there's anything to be gained from polite fiction at this time, though. The man's a monster, his party is already trying to leverage this to more efficiently rob millions of people of their healthcare, and I hope they fail. That's all I have to say about it.

syndalis

Acquaintance describes campaigning for Bernie Sanders with shooting suspect

Charles Orear, 50, a restaurant manager from St. Louis, said in an interview Wednesday that he became friendly with James T. Hodgkinson, whom law enforcement officials identified as the shooter, during their work in Iowa on Sen. Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign. Orear said Hodgkinson was a passionate progressive and showed no signs of violence or malice toward others.

“You’ve got to be kidding me,” Orear said when told by phone. “I met him on the Bernie trail in Iowa, worked with him in the Quad Cities area.”

Orear described Hodgkinson as a “quiet guy” who was “very mellow, very reserved” when they stayed overnight at a Sanders’s supporter home in Rock Island, Ill., after canvassing for the senator.

“He was this union tradesman, pretty stocky, and we stayed up talking politics,” he said. “He was more on the really progressive side of things.”

The Post reached out to Orear after seeing that he liked one of Hodkinson’s Facebook posts.

I am not really looking forward to this becoming a thing. But it will be.

edit: I am not sleuthing, I am relying on WaPo for this.

Tofystedeth

Hakkekage wrote: »

Majority leader says Scalise is out of surgery
House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) said lawmakers are set to learn more about the shooter during an all-members’ briefing later this morning.

A visibly emotional McCarthy said that House Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.) is out of surgery and that he knows the two Capitol Police officers injured. He described them as “amazing individuals” who saved the lives of lawmakers.

“If you talk to the members who were there, they will tell you they went out into the fire to draw the fire,” McCarthy said. “The shooter was moving toward the dugout where the members were and they were able to take him down.”

McCarthy said he was in the House gym when he learned the news and rushed to his Capitol office to learn more. He remained in the office suite of Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) later in the morning receiving updates.

As House majority leader, McCarthy controls the schedule; he said that committee hearings can resume this afternoon but that floor action won’t resume until tomorrow. He also wouldn’t say whether he thinks the Congressional Baseball Game should proceed as scheduled tomorrow night.

Asked about Scalise, McCarthy started to well up.

“I’ve known Steve since Young Republicans. Long before we ever served in the House,” he said before walking away.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/2017/live-updates/public-safety/updates-shooting-at-congressional-baseball-practice-in-virginia/majority-leader-says-scalise-is-out-of-surgery/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_axliveblog-835a:prime-time/promo&utm_term=.34ae8debb1f9

if he's out of surgery he's probably ok? I don't know, there hasn't been a report on where exactly he'd been shot

NPR reported he'd been shot in the hip.

Shivahn

TL DR wrote: »

Preacher wrote: »

Waffen wrote: »

Hmm. Hope this doesn't become the norm soon. We had that woman earlier this year try to run a GOP Congressmen off the road in her vehicle and now this. Nothing good comes from assassination attempts.

Its not just the GOP there was a democrat running for congress that withdrew due to death threats.

Also Gabby Gifford, etc. This isn't new, it's just new from the Democrat-leaning side.

So It Goes wrote: »

TL DR wrote: »

It's important to decry this sort of thing because it's anathema to a functioning democracy and begets reciprocity (though the right doesn't need any excuse, as recent US history shows).

We can hope for silver linings in the form of real progress on gun control or Scalise not returning to Congress, but the realpolitik is likely to be messy and thoroughly depressing.

That's a pretty gross thing to say!

It's a pretty gross situation! I don't know that there's anything to be gained from polite fiction at this time, though. The man's a monster, his party is already trying to leverage this to more efficiently rob millions of people of their healthcare, and I hope they fail. That's all I have to say about it.

I just looked him up - apparently he is the guy who authored anti gay marriage amendments to the constitution?

This situation absolutely is testing the limits of my compassion =/

Mayabird

In @TL DR's defense, Scalise could just resign and that would keep him from returning to Congress without dying. Heck, it might slightly slow down the House trying to do terrible things if the Rs are too busy fighting over who gets to be Whip next for a week or two.

Preacher

Its kind of sick to me that this shooting gets a presidential response almost immediately where as two men died defending a muslim girl and that didn't get a staffer to offer a shitty tweet till three days later.

wazilla

\

So It Goes wrote: »

Mayabird wrote: »

Nobeard wrote: »

I'm not a mod so the most I can do is ask: please let's not go into political discussion AT THIS TIME. Political fallout is important and we will do that part later. I have the same sour feeling in my gut about what Trump and GOP will do, but they ain't done nothing yet. More importantly, it's inappropriate to politicize this incident when there are victims freshly in the hospital. Let's be a little stoic for now.

EDIT: If Trump et al politicize this too soon, then we shouldn't ignore that. Ugh.

The right is already gearing up to make the left at fault, no matter what the actual facts might end up being, making up shit if it serves their position at this moment. They are always chopping at the bit, looking for an excuse to politicize everything and everything. We in fact have to do this as a matter of defense. If you want to get mad, get mad at them.

It's fine to react to actual things actual people are saying about this.

This is not a thread to discuss how awful Republicans are, though

Hakkekage wrote: »

Pellaeon wrote: »

Uh, er, why do we care what prison planet dude thinks? I'm sure he's a top notch internet detective, but if we want to see what the bowels of the Internet think about this we can just head to their respective sites.

Could we at least wait until an official source releases some info on the guy?

The spin machine is already up and running and getting talking heads on major news networks is why

That dude isn't a pundit, he's a troll.

Sure, he's a troll, Alex Jones is a troll, but I don't think infowars.com is irrelevant to the political zeitgeist, especially when shaping response to tragedy. That is their wheelhouse. I think it will be valuable to know in a day or so's time when an elected representative is repeating Watson's claims that they are sourced from a troll.

Pellaeon

Hakkekage wrote: »

Pellaeon wrote: »

Uh, er, why do we care what prison planet dude thinks? I'm sure he's a top notch internet detective, but if we want to see what the bowels of the Internet think about this we can just head to their respective sites.

Could we at least wait until an official source releases some info on the guy?

The spin machine is already up and running and getting talking heads on major news networks is why

Can we address the talking heads then? I know there's a vanishingly small gap these days between the infowars/brietbarts/apparently prison planets (never heard of before) and what gets reported on major news/ retweeted by the government, but the majority of people are still going to hear/see/react to the latter rather than the former.

Anyone who's constantly refreshing prison planet tweets for news is likely going to think this was Obama's brother or whatever regardless of what future info comes out. I'd rather hear what the real news is reporting, as that will drive the actual narrative. Might turn out to be the same, because murica 2017, but at least they'll likely have some sources.

AngelHedgie

Mayabird wrote: »

In @TL DR's defense, Scalise could just resign and that would keep him from returning to Congress without dying. Heck, it might slightly slow down the House trying to do terrible things if the Rs are too busy fighting over who gets to be Whip next for a week or two.

It's still really fucking unseemly to go all Pelican Brief with this.

Mr Khan

Damn, so it is a leftist?

Going to be a bumpy ride here.

Mayabird

Infowars is very much relevant to the political zeitgeist because Trump is a believer in a lot of the lunatic claims they started and his inner circle follows and supports them.

Nobeard

Preacher wrote: »

Its kind of sick to me that this shooting gets a presidential response almost immediately where as two men died defending a muslim girl and that didn't get a staffer to offer a shitty tweet till three days later.

I'm not trying to defend Trump here, but this situation is gigantically different from most other shootings. Attempted mass shooting against sitting congressmen warrants an immediate response from the pres.

Just to be clear, I haven't seen what Trump said, but I'm assuming it's awful.

Preacher

I guess I'm just upset that because of this particular shooters political leaning its a problem. Again right winger kills two people in oregon not much of an issue, barely a blip on the cycle its a local story. A reportedly left winger shoots up some GOP congressman and now we have a problem? Are you kidding me? We've had a motherfucking problem. Sandy Hook, the pulse night club shootings, Dylan fucking Roof. I'd like to think they'd look at the ease of getting guns and do something about it, but the only thing I can see probably happening is more protections for congress people while everyday americans continue to die on the fucking streets because we don't have capitol hill police escorts.

Nobeard

Mayabird wrote: »

Infowars is very much relevant to the political zeitgeist because Trump is a believer in a lot of the lunatic claims they started and his inner circle follows and supports them.

This and Wazilla's post are some of the most depressing agrees I've ever given.

DevoutlyApathetic

Nobeard wrote: »

Preacher wrote: »

Its kind of sick to me that this shooting gets a presidential response almost immediately where as two men died defending a muslim girl and that didn't get a staffer to offer a shitty tweet till three days later.

I'm not trying to defend Trump here, but this situation is gigantically different from most other shootings. Attempted mass shooting against sitting congressmen warrants an immediate response from the pres.

Just to be clear, I haven't seen what Trump said, but I'm assuming it's awful.

The official statement I saw was surprisingly pro forma. I wouldn't immediately say it came from Trump rather than another GOP president.

Knight_

Well, this is going to help Trump and the GOP a lot. Certainly going to help his favorables which probably helps the AHCA get passed.

I wish we didn't live in a world where literally the first thought I had after "everyone is alive" is "what is the political calculus now?"