...that she's cracked. Homeland razed, killed by the same guy leading the razing and raised back up with necromatic magic and forced to serve as a slave to (again) same guy. She's considered a monster alone because of her state and then there's the issues with her sisters, what she experienced when she committed suicide and now she's running a group that mostly doesn't like her and because of that, she's losing control of the smaller group she's more or less built a cult of personality around. This isn't an excuse for her current actions but it certainly goes a long way in explaining them. That and the writing.
...that she's cracked. Homeland razed, killed by the same guy leading the razing and raised back up with necromatic magic and forced to serve as a slave to (again) same guy. She's considered a monster alone because of her state and then there's the issues with her sisters, what she experienced when she committed suicide and now she's running a group that mostly doesn't like her and because of that, she's losing control of the smaller group she's more or less built a cult of personality around. This isn't an excuse for her current actions but it certainly goes a long way in explaining them. That and the writing.
Here's the thing: you don't need to excuse her actions. You need to excuse the fucking writing. The Horde has had two leaders go completely evil now and the Alliance is sitting on Good Guys and it's fucking irritating. The whole morally grey meme is really accurate.
+8
Options
AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
Hi, Sylvanas has always been evil, Blizzard never described her as being morally grey and this really isn't that big a stretch for her considering her past actions.
Also it's nothing like Garrosh, who had his character completely assassinated, throwing away all the character growth he had gone through.
+5
Options
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Hi, Sylvanas has always been evil, Blizzard never described her as being morally grey and this really isn't that big a stretch for her considering her past actions.
Also it's nothing like Garrosh, who had his character completely assassinated, throwing away all the character growth he had gone through.
Garrosh had one fucking quest line.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
0
Options
AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
Yeah it ain't just a meme, Blizzard explictly has said Sylvanas would be a complicated character in BFA and that the Burning of Teldrassil specifically would be a morally grey situation and that both sides would feel questionable about it
it was morally grey in warcraft 3 and vanilla WoW through wrath, plus warlords and legion due to the horde and alliance having a more important common enemy during those periods, at least.
it was black and white as hell in warcraft 1, 2, cata and pandas. And apparently BFA now.
BahamutZERO on
0
Options
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I've never done the cata stonetalon story all the way but I was told he is like "commander you've behaved dishonorably towards our enemies, commit orc seppuku" or something there
0
Options
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I've never done the cata stonetalon story all the way but I was told he is like "commander you've behaved dishonorably towards our enemies, commit orc seppuku" or something there
The very first thing he does in cata is segregate Orgrimmar.
The very first fucking thing!
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I think munkus means one questline of getting-less-evil character development maybe?
There is the Nagrand quest line where, knowing jack shit about Gary, you get him out of his funk anyway and ask thrall for his help.
Then IMMEDIATELY after that in Wrath he’s all KILL EVERYTHING THAT ISNT US HORDE FOREVER ORCS ARE BEST RAWR
in northrend there's a conversation between him and saurfang wherein saurfang opens up his heart about the atrocities that he committed under the influence. He ends it with his quote about never forsaking honor.
Later in cataclysm there's a quest line in which an orc commander uses a mana bomb on a city. Garrosh throws him off a bridge and then turns to you the player and says something like "A wise old hero once told me to never forsake honor no matter how dire the battle." and then tells you to not be a bad dude anymore.
it would not be until slightly later that he goes. WOOO WAR IS THE GREAT AND ORC IS DA BES. Which led to a number of players being confused about where this slow buildup of his character had gone.
I think munkus means one questline of getting-less-evil character development maybe?
There is the Nagrand quest line where, knowing jack shit about Gary, you get him out of his funk anyway and ask thrall for his help.
Then IMMEDIATELY after that in Wrath he’s all KILL EVERYTHING THAT ISNT US HORDE FOREVER ORCS ARE BEST RAWR
in northrend there's a conversation between him and saurfang wherein saurfang opens up his heart about the atrocities that he committed under the influence. He ends it with his quote about never forsaking honor.
Later in cataclysm there's a quest line in which an orc commander uses a mana bomb on a city. Garrosh throws him off a bridge and then turns to you the player and says something like "A wise old hero once told me to never forsake honor no matter how dire the battle." and then tells you to not be a bad dude anymore.
it would not be until slightly later that he goes. WOOO WAR IS THE GREAT AND ORC IS DA BES. Which led to a number of players being confused about where this slow buildup of his character had gone.
That was purportedly because there was some miscommunication between the writers in Cata, and they had Garrosh going in different directions for a while. They had Garrosh being noble and honorable in the first pass on Cata, but then changed it later, but some of the writers had already finished their stuff without getting the memo?
Cataclysm seemed like he was going in a different direction for a while there ...
He was.
He was? Tell us about that -- why he had that shift.
Miscommunication.
So Stonetalon ...
Me.
You did Stonetalon?
I did Stonetalon.
I didn't stick to that path with Garrosh. I didn't -- not everyone was on board. Not everyone got the memo as it were, as we were designing -- and that was my fault. Because when you're doing, when you're trying -- because I was actually trying to bring Garrosh around, and Stonetalon was going to be the first of that. Cataclysm was pretty crazy time for us.
You had so much to do.
We did quite a lot of work. So I feel like there was a little bit of miscommunication on my part that kind of led to Garrosh going down another, darker path. So there's an interesting tidbit for you.
I think if you put Sylvanas in charge of the horde there's almost a 100% chance she was going to do something insanely terrible with it because she's been doing terrible shit virtually all the time
pretty much since the horde and alliance paused in the middle of raiding icecrown citadel to have a big dumb airship fight, I've largely given up on the horde/alliance conflict ever actually making any sense
Decided to be one of those people who actually likes the new story
could you elaborate? cause i think you're the first person i've seen express this.
i don't know enough about the lore to know whether or not this is actually in character for sylvanas or not, but i'd be less annoyed if 1) they didn't try to advertise it 'who will it be?? the truth may surprise you!' then do the most obvious thing. 2) they didn't pull the 'both sides are morally gray!' stuff then have sylvanas do something cartoonishly evil. 3) didn't make it so we essentially had to comply if we had any intent on seeing the rest of the game's story. in the end i don't care that much because the story has always been a side thing to me and never all that good, but i feel like if i had actual investment in my character they'd probably be wanting to defect. but you can't. because lol faction divide.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
yeah the more I play my hunter the more I'm feeling survival, it's like night and day compared to legion's survival. Reducing the clunky mongoose bite system to a single optional talent button, turning explosive trap into an enemy targeted AOE instead of a ground targeted AOE, and turning lacerate into a ranged spell made the spec feel so much better to play.
Not to detract from the deeply engaging storyline that you all seem to be praising... but what are you all planning to do profession wise come BfA? With the new changes, it seems like a great time to switch things up. Anyone who played the beta have some recommendations on a few of the more useful professions? Which ones to steer clear of?
I'm definitely giving up blacksmithing on my Warrior and going to go Herb /Alch, but on my Rogue I'm contemplating keeping Mining / Jewelcrafting, just not sure if there is anything all that good about JC in the new expansion. I know for a fact I'll be using Alchemy on a daily basis, not so much many of the others.
Jewelcrafters have pretty much just gotten to make gems and one or two toy items for the last few expansions. I don't really recommend it. It looks like this time we don't even get any fun shit, the BFA recipe list is gems, gems, gems, and useless crafted staves and rings.
It's kind of annoying how rare gem sockets are these days. Since sockets are just a rare random extra on equipment the actual number of gem slots people ever actually have needing to be filled is tiny. Enchanting feels much more commonly useful, every piece of gear in a slot that can be enchanted needs enchants, not just the occasional piece that happen to roll a secondary bonus and then roll the correct 25% chance for the bonus to be a socket rather than move speed, AOE damage reduction or lifesteal.
Engineering is more commonly useful too, rocket boots and gliders are fun and useful, there's tons of toys to make, people always need repair bots in indoor raids and sometimes it's nice having someone with goblin jumper cables if all the people with rezzes died and you feigned death or vanished or invisibility'd.
Even inscription has more actual useful stuff to do than JC at this point, people buy cosmetic glyphs AND they bring utility to raids with talent respec tomes and those versatility buff vantus rune things.
The only things I think are less useful than JC at this point are the armor crafting professions, but at least those give you transmogs and hypothetically can help while leveling a little bit, I guess. And a few items that let you do things like interact while mounted and become immune to getting dazed off your mount.
And apparently tailoring is getting 3 self-only cape enchants that either reduce threat generation by a pretty significant amount, allow you to fall farther before you take damage like the rogue passive ability, or make you immune to dazing like a tank spec(!!!).
0
Options
KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
Just go double gathering, crafting is for suckers
+2
Options
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
Because Sylvanas obviously planned the attack to happen when they were at a save-the-planet conference held by the Cenarion Circle and Magni. Your hands are now clean of NE blood.
yeah the more I play my hunter the more I'm feeling survival, it's like night and day compared to legion's survival. Reducing the clunky mongoose bite system to a single optional talent button, turning explosive trap into an enemy targeted AOE instead of a ground targeted AOE, and turning lacerate into a ranged spell made the spec feel so much better to play.
Survival is the real deal now, that's the zau stamp of approval
I might be enjoying rogue a bit more though just for being a little faster paced
Jewelcrafters have pretty much just gotten to make gems and one or two toy items for the last few expansions. I don't really recommend it. It looks like this time we don't even get any fun shit, the BFA recipe list is gems, gems, gems, and useless crafted staves and rings.
It's kind of annoying how rare gem sockets are these days. Since sockets are just a rare random extra on equipment the actual number of gem slots people ever actually have needing to be filled is tiny. Enchanting feels much more commonly useful, every piece of gear in a slot that can be enchanted needs enchants, not just the occasional piece that happen to roll a secondary bonus and then roll the correct 25% chance for the bonus to be a socket rather than move speed, AOE damage reduction or lifesteal.
Engineering is more commonly useful too, rocket boots and gliders are fun and useful, there's tons of toys to make, people always need repair bots in indoor raids and sometimes it's nice having someone with goblin jumper cables if all the people with rezzes died and you feigned death or vanished or invisibility'd.
Even inscription has more actual useful stuff to do than JC at this point, people buy cosmetic glyphs AND they bring utility to raids with talent respec tomes and those versatility buff vantus rune things.
The only things I think are less useful than JC at this point are the armor crafting professions, but at least those give you transmogs and hypothetically can help while leveling a little bit, I guess. And a few items that let you do things like interact while mounted and become immune to getting dazed off your mount.
And apparently tailoring is getting 3 self-only cape enchants that either reduce threat generation by a pretty significant amount, allow you to fall farther before you take damage like the rogue passive ability, or make you immune to dazing like a tank spec(!!!).
You know now that I think about it I’ve never tried the enchanting profession, I think maybe now is a good time to give that a shot.
But yeah, armor crafting professions seem pretty useless.
hmm actually now that I'm looking at it it looks like there aren't any neck or cape enchants this time, so enchanting is down to pretty much just rings, and fairly inconsequential utility enchants that make you gather faster for gloves and... hearthstone-cast-enhancing enchants for bracers? lol
e: oh and weapon enchants are back since we're back to normal weapons, so rings and weapons. Not too much less to enchant than in Legion.
Posts
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
Here's the thing: you don't need to excuse her actions. You need to excuse the fucking writing. The Horde has had two leaders go completely evil now and the Alliance is sitting on Good Guys and it's fucking irritating. The whole morally grey meme is really accurate.
Also it's nothing like Garrosh, who had his character completely assassinated, throwing away all the character growth he had gone through.
Garrosh had one fucking quest line.
They said Warcraft has always been morally grey, not black and white.
Which is not even CLOSE to what has happened
Still its dumb that we as a player character get to just be tossed in with evil burn all hope lady
it was black and white as hell in warcraft 1, 2, cata and pandas. And apparently BFA now.
There is the Nagrand quest line where, knowing jack shit about Gary, you get him out of his funk anyway and ask thrall for his help.
Then IMMEDIATELY after that in Wrath he’s all KILL EVERYTHING THAT ISNT US HORDE FOREVER ORCS ARE BEST RAWR
The very first thing he does in cata is segregate Orgrimmar.
The very first fucking thing!
in northrend there's a conversation between him and saurfang wherein saurfang opens up his heart about the atrocities that he committed under the influence. He ends it with his quote about never forsaking honor.
Later in cataclysm there's a quest line in which an orc commander uses a mana bomb on a city. Garrosh throws him off a bridge and then turns to you the player and says something like "A wise old hero once told me to never forsake honor no matter how dire the battle." and then tells you to not be a bad dude anymore.
it would not be until slightly later that he goes. WOOO WAR IS THE GREAT AND ORC IS DA BES. Which led to a number of players being confused about where this slow buildup of his character had gone.
That was purportedly because there was some miscommunication between the writers in Cata, and they had Garrosh going in different directions for a while. They had Garrosh being noble and honorable in the first pass on Cata, but then changed it later, but some of the writers had already finished their stuff without getting the memo?
Found the link: https://www.engadget.com/2014/11/11/alex-afrasiabi-on-warlords-garrosh-and-alternate-azeroth/ Relevant bit in spoilers for long:
#praisethesunstrider
Damn that fucking panda straight to the deepest depths of hell.
i actively like that they gave a reason for her mascara
could you elaborate? cause i think you're the first person i've seen express this.
i don't know enough about the lore to know whether or not this is actually in character for sylvanas or not, but i'd be less annoyed if 1) they didn't try to advertise it 'who will it be?? the truth may surprise you!' then do the most obvious thing. 2) they didn't pull the 'both sides are morally gray!' stuff then have sylvanas do something cartoonishly evil. 3) didn't make it so we essentially had to comply if we had any intent on seeing the rest of the game's story. in the end i don't care that much because the story has always been a side thing to me and never all that good, but i feel like if i had actual investment in my character they'd probably be wanting to defect. but you can't. because lol faction divide.
Zay has been corrupted by the old gods. Please collect thirty bear assholes to start the raid to defeat corrupted Zay.
With harpoon resetting on kills its like playing a warrior that doesnt suck and reminds me of that melee pet class from the warhammer mmo
Marks is boring though
I'm definitely giving up blacksmithing on my Warrior and going to go Herb /Alch, but on my Rogue I'm contemplating keeping Mining / Jewelcrafting, just not sure if there is anything all that good about JC in the new expansion. I know for a fact I'll be using Alchemy on a daily basis, not so much many of the others.
I kinda feel horrible. I taught that kid everything he knows.....I created a monster.
WoW
Dear Satan.....
It's kind of annoying how rare gem sockets are these days. Since sockets are just a rare random extra on equipment the actual number of gem slots people ever actually have needing to be filled is tiny. Enchanting feels much more commonly useful, every piece of gear in a slot that can be enchanted needs enchants, not just the occasional piece that happen to roll a secondary bonus and then roll the correct 25% chance for the bonus to be a socket rather than move speed, AOE damage reduction or lifesteal.
Engineering is more commonly useful too, rocket boots and gliders are fun and useful, there's tons of toys to make, people always need repair bots in indoor raids and sometimes it's nice having someone with goblin jumper cables if all the people with rezzes died and you feigned death or vanished or invisibility'd.
Even inscription has more actual useful stuff to do than JC at this point, people buy cosmetic glyphs AND they bring utility to raids with talent respec tomes and those versatility buff vantus rune things.
The only things I think are less useful than JC at this point are the armor crafting professions, but at least those give you transmogs and hypothetically can help while leveling a little bit, I guess. And a few items that let you do things like interact while mounted and become immune to getting dazed off your mount.
And apparently tailoring is getting 3 self-only cape enchants that either reduce threat generation by a pretty significant amount, allow you to fall farther before you take damage like the rogue passive ability, or make you immune to dazing like a tank spec(!!!).
Marks is pretty great at endgame, with the ability to oneshot most enemies every other minute.
Because Sylvanas obviously planned the attack to happen when they were at a save-the-planet conference held by the Cenarion Circle and Magni. Your hands are now clean of NE blood.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
Survival is the real deal now, that's the zau stamp of approval
I might be enjoying rogue a bit more though just for being a little faster paced
You know now that I think about it I’ve never tried the enchanting profession, I think maybe now is a good time to give that a shot.
But yeah, armor crafting professions seem pretty useless.
e: oh and weapon enchants are back since we're back to normal weapons, so rings and weapons. Not too much less to enchant than in Legion.
what are the changes that are comng to crafting in BfA?
here's a wowhead article about profession stuff in BFA: http://www.wowhead.com/professions-in-battle-for-azeroth