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[Heroes of the Storm] Coronavirus can't kill HotS if it's already dead #rollsafe

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Finally had a chance to play new Tassadar today. He seems ... I mean, really fucking strong. I had to play kind of a hybrid Q/W build, since it was a wonky QM matchup and I knew I wouldn't be able to stack full Q effectively from an offlane position, but it still worked out super well. Why the fuck does every Tass I see go Archon? Black Hole shiiiiiiits on it. Literally just -- throw Black Hole into the enemy team, press E to position your Wall so that one or two primary targets get blocked off and they other targets get pushed away, then QW and the fight's over. Played appropriately, it's literally like, "What if Falstad's Gust blew back everyone except one guy?". That's how nuts Black Hole is.

    Did they buff black hole and/or nerf Archon in the patch?

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    No, it's just always been nuts.

    And Archon's always been lollerskates.

  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    If the direct link to the timestamp doesn't work here, just go to 17:45

    https://youtu.be/shNJRAsNNHI?t=1067

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    I am super not convinced Black Hole is any good

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    I am super not convinced Black Hole is any good

    It's actually insane. Like, potentially one of the best ults in the game, Kime.

  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Similar utility as Horrify and Mighty Gust, two of the most impactful teamfight ultimates in the game. But with more control over your pickoff potential.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I'm sure Black Hole is superior in some cases, like if you have a good wombo comp or the enemy team is especially clumpy, but for the general chaos of PUG QMs I think Archon is just generally better.

  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    You don't need a wombo combo group, though; Black Hole is the wombo. Paradox does like 8k damage in about 3 seconds in that video and splits their team in half.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I mean if you can pull that off consistently, then it's probably the better heroic for you.

  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    I love Black Hole, I'll take it every time. It's definitely one you need to be comfortable pulling off tho. You can waste it real easy if you're not decent with it.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Finally had a chance to play new Tassadar today. He seems ... I mean, really fucking strong. I had to play kind of a hybrid Q/W build, since it was a wonky QM matchup and I knew I wouldn't be able to stack full Q effectively from an offlane position, but it still worked out super well. Why the fuck does every Tass I see go Archon? Black Hole shiiiiiiits on it. Literally just -- throw Black Hole into the enemy team, press E to position your Wall so that one or two primary targets get blocked off and they other targets get pushed away, then QW and the fight's over. Played appropriately, it's literally like, "What if Falstad's Gust blew back everyone except one guy?". That's how nuts Black Hole is.

    Because you can walk out of the blackhole stun and the archon gives him survivability (which he desperately needs), lowers spell armor, and gives you max stacks of his trait instantly which is important for a number of talents.

    I say this as someone who likes blackhole.

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Black Hole Stun won’t you come
    And wall away the ranged

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    You don't need a wombo combo group, though; Black Hole is the wombo. Paradox does like 8k damage in about 3 seconds in that video and splits their team in half.

    Yes and I can find some funny D.Va clips where her nuke kills 5 enemy heroes at once. Doesn't mean it's good.

    Black Hole has a ~4-5% lower winrate across all ranks except Master, where's it just ~2% lower. If you can make it work, more power to you. That's great! In general and for most people, it's the worse ult.

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    My experience with Black Hole has usually been that I need to basically be in melee range to use it (which is a dangerous range to be in for a Mage with no escapes), and even if I toss it out and manage to hit someone and wall them and smash all my buttons on their face..... Nothing happens. They just walk away after.

    I have, in fact, regretted every game I've taken it, even games where it would make sense to take it logically. I just can't seem to make the damn thing work for me, I guess. Or something.

    Conversely, I like Archon a lot because it's a 40% health shield, you get actual usable autos, you can stutterstep/don't need to turret, and your autos hit like a truck and have splash damage and -20 Spell Armor etc etc etc.

    Maybe I need to put in some more time into practicing with Black Hole, but.... Hmm...

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Black Hole is fun. i would not go so far to say it's good. But for QMing it's definitely the more fun ult. In most situations you are using it either to disengage (as you can't dodge a point blank hole) or to follow-up a safer stun because landing a raw hole on someone is literally impossible if they can rub two brain cells together (which, given the hots playerbase, doesn't mean much)

    Tass does huge, enormous damage, it's true. But he did that kind of damage before his buffs. His issue is that he has zero escapes and is super vulnerable whenever he casts his best spell. I have died so many times on Tass because I dared to cast a max range Q in the backline. It's absurdly easy to punish.

    A great example of this was an NGS match we had post-buffs; Enemy team picks Tass on Dshire. The game ended because Tass, while in the backline, cast a Q and I responded by durancing him in the face. His animations are so bad, he's like Qhira in that you look at his kit and go "Wow, this guy is awesome!" and then you play him and go "Wow, these animations suck"

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited May 2020
    Also a large problem with Black Hole is that it has ALL of Q's problems but magnified tenfold.

    It has a significant cast time, which roots you in place for the duration, and it travels SLOWWWW

    I took it in a game just now and I literally had to WALK UP to melee range practically to get it off. And, sure, I was able to scoop some fools with it, but. Coulda just done the same thing with Archon but also have defensive benefits.


    Edit: I think the main thing is like, I feel like a well placed Force Wall can... more or less do the same job as Black Hole, in the sense of splitting someone off and then just, focusing them down. Electric Fence makes that easy, too. Generally a Force Wall'd target is a pretty big indicator for your team to dive said person and blown them up. Black Hole has some nice chunky burst to it, sure, but Archon will outdamage Black Hole over its entire duration.

    I dunno. I had some fun blowing it on a Zagara who was walking right up to me, but otherwise... Yeah, dunno. It's a hard ult to use, I feel. It just comes out so slow. I don't think it's bad, but, it's definitely not something that I can make work, personally.

    Dibby on
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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Nothing like having a draft in scrim where you fuck up almost every single part of it but it doesn’t matter because you got Deathwing

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    Tass is a pretty popular pick in a lot GM games streamed. That means you're also playing against heavily coordinated teams.


    Granted it also means your healer and tank are generally on point as well.


    The general comment I hear is that he does so much damage that he's a good pick.

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    wra
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    Tass is a pretty popular pick in a lot GM games streamed. That means you're also playing against heavily coordinated teams.


    Granted it also means your healer and tank are generally on point as well.


    The general comment I hear is that he does so much damage that he's a good pick.

    I'm glad. He's really fun to play, but I think he also needed the buffs he got. Tass immediately post-rework was bad.

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 2020
    I had a game a few days ago where both teams were pretty evenly matched. Our Naz had 200k damage, I had 30k soak, and our Raynor/Anduin had solid games. But our ETC. ugh, dude just had serious Bronze/Silver level tunnel vision.

    Taking 1v5 engages, not leaving when everyone else did, not listening to retreat pings from the team, randomly sliding to his doom, and so forth. But the worst thing of all, he was somehow CONSTANTLY at 15% or less mana. Essentially, he was useless during fights. How is that a fucking thing, especially on ETC?

    I believe most losses are team losses, but this was the exception where one player did lose it for us. Anyone else in that ETC and we win. Oh well.

    MNC Dover on
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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Yesss Dover, yes!! Let the hate flow through you!!

    Join the Dibby side, yessssss.....

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    Yesss Dover, yes!! Let the hate flow through you!!

    Join the Dibby side, yessssss.....

    Hmmm...do you have cookies? If so, what kind?

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  • tyrantula22tyrantula22 Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Dibby wrote: »
    Yesss Dover, yes!! Let the hate flow through you!!

    Join the Dibby side, yessssss.....

    Hmmm...do you have cookies? If so, what kind?

    You gotta keep the anger up, so I'm guessing oatmeal raisin?

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Oatmeal raisin is fucking delicious, stop.

  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Oatmeal raisin is fucking delicious, stop.

    They ok, but too often mistaken for chocolate chip from a distance. Biting into one unaware is the greatest betrayal.

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  • WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    Okay, but I'd totally eat oatmeal chocolate chip as a compromise

  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    Not even Judas served oatmeal raisin.

    Nuff' said.

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  • GroveGrove Los AngelesRegistered User regular
    Oatmeal chocolate chip isn't a compromise. It's the promised land.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Oatmeal raisin is fucking delicious, stop.

    They ok, but too often mistaken for chocolate chip from a distance. Biting into one unaware is the greatest betrayal.

    I've said literally the exact same thing about getting an oatmeal raisin cookie when you expected chocolate chip. This is a fundamental truth of life that all come to in their own time.

    Fuck oatmeal raisin. No one in life has ever gotten an oatmeal raisin cookie and thought, "Oh man, this is totally better than chocolate chip!"

    Oatmeal chocolate chip? Sure, that definitely has a spot. But oatmeal raisin? Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    Tass is a pretty popular pick in a lot GM games streamed. That means you're also playing against heavily coordinated teams.


    Granted it also means your healer and tank are generally on point as well.


    The general comment I hear is that he does so much damage that he's a good pick.
    A squishy hero with a no damage*, hard to use, but extremely potent zoning tool like Force Wall is probably always going to end up being night and day from coordinated/GM games to the general masses. Kind of like Medivh.

  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    No one in life has ever gotten an oatmeal raisin cookie and thought, "Oh man, this is totally better than chocolate chip.

    Literally false. That's exactly how I feel every time I eat an oatmeal raisin cookie.

  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    edited May 2020
    Let me put it this way: I would rather have an oatmeal raisin cookie than any other kind of cookie. And I regard the distance between the quality and taste of oatmeal raisin and any other type of cookie as too great to appropriately measure. And I will not be moved on this issue.

    milk ducks on
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    What the fuck did I start

    What sort of fucking PANDORA'S BOX did I open

    Hey fuck oatmeal raisin though I will die on this fucking hill

    Raisins are fuckin nasty

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  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    edited May 2020
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Oatmeal raisin is fucking delicious, stop.

    They ok, but too often mistaken for chocolate chip from a distance. Biting into one unaware is the greatest betrayal.

    I've said literally the exact same thing about getting an oatmeal raisin cookie when you expected chocolate chip. This is a fundamental truth of life that all come to in their own time.

    Fuck oatmeal raisin. No one in life has ever gotten an oatmeal raisin cookie and thought, "Oh man, this is totally better than chocolate chip!"

    Oatmeal chocolate chip? Sure, that definitely has a spot. But oatmeal raisin? Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit.

    I'm allergic to chocolate. So yeah, I've said that.

    Snickerdoodles are still the best.

    In HoTS news: does not matter if tracer is OP if you still cant land a pulse bomb to save your life

    Moridin889 on
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    So pineapple on pizza, the best or the bestest, an i right?

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    What the fuck did I start

    What sort of fucking PANDORA'S BOX did I open

    Hey fuck oatmeal raisin though I will die on this fucking hill

    Raisins are fuckin nasty

    Raisins have a time and a place and that time and place are in a cake with lots of rum.

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  • tyrantula22tyrantula22 Registered User regular
    I just had some raisins for a snack like an hour ago and feel personally attacked. :)

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  • FuriousJodoFuriousJodo Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I've come around on Tracer and now I despise her.

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  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    Good grapes are juicy, therefore raisins are bad grapes.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I told you guys Ducks wasn't good people.

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