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[Total War] "Peace!" "WAR!" "War and Peace." "JUST WAR." "The book, sister."

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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    So I've just jumped into Total Warhammer 2 because I got a new PC, and it's wonderful. Been playing a Mazdamundi vortex campaign to get a handle on the basics. Lizardmen were the first miniatures I ever owned for any tabletop game, so it's very nostalgic.

    I'm hankering to play various flavours of chaos and undead, as well as the Empire, but the DLCs and interaction with TW1 are a bit confusing. My instinct is to pick up the Tomb Kings for a campaign, and wait for a sale to get TW1. Any recommendations for stuff to pick up or avoid in terms of DLC?

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    caligynefobcaligynefob DKRegistered User regular
    The Vampire coast dlc has been my favorite of the bunch so a strong recommend there. However, you can’t really go wrong with any of the WH2 dlcs

    PS4 - Mrfuzzyhat
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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    All the DLC for both Total Warhammer games is well worth it, IMO. I think most people would agree that you can skip the Beastmen and Wood Elf DLCs without losing out on much.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    I would strongly disagree with that

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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    All the DLC for both Total Warhammer games is well worth it, IMO. I think most people would agree that you can skip the Beastmen and Wood Elf DLCs without losing out on much.

    Well. Also Chaos Warriors DLC. That's pretty skippable. Chaos Warriors DLC is probably the most skippable DLC in the entirety of the Total War: Warhammer universe.

    My top three recommendations for "I want ze undead and chaos" would be Vampire Coast, Tomb kings and Norsca. Not in any specific order. They're all very different and very unique factions. Tomb kings and Vampirates are of course playable in Vortex, and Norsca only in Mortal Empires (since it's a WH1 DLC).

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Terrendos wrote: »
    So the Empire post-rework is as annoying to fight as the Greenskins. Ever notice how you'll have the Greenskins on the ropes, down to 1-2 settlements, and then they'll somehow Confederate a much larger greenskin faction and the war will just keep dragging on? Yeah, that's the Empire now too.

    I guess the AI doesn't track Authority. In my Kemmler campaign I saw them confederate with Marienburg, and I was about ready to take them on so I declared war. Took a couple towns. Next turn: confederated with Nordland. Okay, whatever, Middenland is between us anyway, no biggie.

    Next turn: confederate Middenland. sigh Fine. Take Altdorf and see multiple full stacks heading my way.

    Next turn: Talabecland. Next turn: Wissenland. Next turn: Ostland. They already had Stirland. Meanwhile, I can't get Mr. One Settlement Red Duke to join me.

    This seems unfair. If I did that in my Empire campaign I'd be getting secessions left and right and every town would be in rebellion. Apparently the best way to get factions to confederate is to be almost completely annihilated.

    I had this happen yesterday and it's so fucking frustrating. I had them down to just The Moot and 5 tuns later everything is a sea of red. It added like 50+ turns to a ME game.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited October 2019
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Care you elaborate?

    They’re two of the most fun armies in the game

    Tube on
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    ExtreaminatusExtreaminatus Go forth and amplify, the Noise Marines are here!Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    All the DLC for both Total Warhammer games is well worth it, IMO. I think most people would agree that you can skip the Beastmen and Wood Elf DLCs without losing out on much.

    Well. Also Chaos Warriors DLC. That's pretty skippable. Chaos Warriors DLC is probably the most skippable DLC in the entirety of the Total War: Warhammer universe.

    Alternatively, Chaos Warriors is the lease skippable DLC because Chaos is rad and I thoroughly enjoyed playing their campaign.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Chaos is a lot more playable since the update

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    Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    A duck! wrote: »
    Terrendos wrote: »
    So the Empire post-rework is as annoying to fight as the Greenskins. Ever notice how you'll have the Greenskins on the ropes, down to 1-2 settlements, and then they'll somehow Confederate a much larger greenskin faction and the war will just keep dragging on? Yeah, that's the Empire now too.

    I guess the AI doesn't track Authority. In my Kemmler campaign I saw them confederate with Marienburg, and I was about ready to take them on so I declared war. Took a couple towns. Next turn: confederated with Nordland. Okay, whatever, Middenland is between us anyway, no biggie.

    Next turn: confederate Middenland. sigh Fine. Take Altdorf and see multiple full stacks heading my way.

    Next turn: Talabecland. Next turn: Wissenland. Next turn: Ostland. They already had Stirland. Meanwhile, I can't get Mr. One Settlement Red Duke to join me.

    This seems unfair. If I did that in my Empire campaign I'd be getting secessions left and right and every town would be in rebellion. Apparently the best way to get factions to confederate is to be almost completely annihilated.

    I had this happen yesterday and it's so fucking frustrating. I had them down to just The Moot and 5 tuns later everything is a sea of red. It added like 50+ turns to a ME game.

    I was playing as Khalida and Nakai came at me. Took him out. His Vassal faction came too, ran over their armies too. I had a nice clear road to picking up a couple of provinces before they could build back up.

    Instantly confederated with Mazdamundi as I approached their first city. I thought you couldn't Confederate while at war...

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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Care you elaborate?

    They’re two of the most fun armies in the game

    The Wood Elf army is super fucking fun and I love the Amber mechanic.

    Their colonize-everywhere-with-small-holdings campaign mechanic is terrible these days, though.

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    A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Care you elaborate?

    They’re two of the most fun armies in the game

    The Wood Elf army is super fucking fun and I love the Amber mechanic.

    Their colonize-everywhere-with-small-holdings campaign mechanic is terrible these days, though.

    Nakai is a great mixture of the Wood Elf/horde mechanics, to the point that I have a hard time going back to WE.

    My biggest Nakai complaint is that they need to stop treating you and the vassal faction as completely separate entities for war declaration purposes. It's super dumb to get an alliance offer one turn and then have that person war dec the vassal the next one.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    So I've just jumped into Total Warhammer 2 because I got a new PC, and it's wonderful. Been playing a Mazdamundi vortex campaign to get a handle on the basics. Lizardmen were the first miniatures I ever owned for any tabletop game, so it's very nostalgic.

    I'm hankering to play various flavours of chaos and undead, as well as the Empire, but the DLCs and interaction with TW1 are a bit confusing. My instinct is to pick up the Tomb Kings for a campaign, and wait for a sale to get TW1. Any recommendations for stuff to pick up or avoid in terms of DLC?

    So on DLC:

    TW1 does pop up on sale every once in a while, so it may be a good idea to wait. It gives you the Empire, Dwarfs, Greenskins, Brettonia, and Vampire counts along with the Mortal Empires map (has the old world in it in addition to smaller versions of the new world continents). You will definitely want it at some point, but you can probably happily play TW2 factions until it goes on sale.

    TW1 has several dlc that transfer over to TW2. There are 2 lord packs. They are decent, and you can probably get them on sale for cheap. The biggest thing they do is add a bunch of regiments of reknown for the core factions. IIRC there are also some RoR you get for signing up for a total war access account, so do that too. On the whole nothing you won’t miss here but they usually go on sale with the main game for a dollar or two so might as well get them.

    Beyond that, there are DLC race packs for Norsca, Wood Elves, Beastmen, and Chaos. I would probably recommend them in that order. Norsca is the clear best, catch the others on sale if interested.

    All these flat out require WH1, so again maybe look at a complete package when they all go on sale. I think at one point they were all 75% off.

    On to WH2. You probably won’t find as great a sale on these.

    First the races. Tomb kings are pretty great, a big change of pace from the other factions. They have a unique recruitment mechanic, and a different quest on the vortex map. Same for Vampire counts, which are weird but play a bit like a cross between vampires and dwarves and again have their own campaign objectives. I would prioritize these if you have to pick something and are at all interested in the factions.

    On to the lord packs. Essentially you can just buy them if you are interested in the featured factions. They do come with a few units and RoR, I honestly have a hard time remembering what comes with what. The latest one is good if you don’t have WH1 because it effectively adds the empire to vortex, so it’s basically a race pack for the price of a lord pack.



    I would honestly based on what you were saying pick up the latest lord pack and Tomb kings to start, and maybe Prophet and Warlock.

    This would be about 35 dollars, but would get you:

    Tomb kings

    Empire on the Vortex (a really fun campaign)

    Totally up to speed on lizardmen, (so 6 different lizardmen lords with a variety of focuses to play in different locations, and a nice variety of lizardman units)

    Up to speed on Skaven, who you didn’t mention but are pretty nice, especially ikit.

    Then down the road pick up the elf lord pack and Vampire Pirates when/if you want to do a campaign with them, and try to get WH1 on sale.

    Jealous Deva on
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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    That happens with all the main factions except vampire counts as VC have no one to confederate with. It happens more on higher difficulty due to the AI diplomacy bonuses though.

    wbBv3fj.png
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Care you elaborate?

    They’re two of the most fun armies in the game

    The Wood Elf army is super fucking fun and I love the Amber mechanic.

    Their colonize-everywhere-with-small-holdings campaign mechanic is terrible these days, though.

    I see it as representing the fact that they don’t give a fuck about territory outside of athel loren. Then again I just love factions that don’t have to hold much territory so I’m biased

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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Okay, so WH1 faction DLCs carry over, but only for Mortal Empires? Got it.

    Beastmen sound pretty fun, tbh. I don't think I'll be able to say no to any Chaos factions.

    Thanks for the tips, all

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Right, as of now only Empire is playable on the vortex campaign, and that campaign is pretty much its own thing you get from the lord pack.

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    IblisIblis Registered User regular
    Tomb Kings are probably the best overall DLC they've released, campaign is fun and their mechanics are rather unique. Essentially their units cost no money and have no upkeep, instead they have unit caps (except for their basic skeletons) based off how many recruitment buildings you've constructed. They also have some special unlocks by collecting a unique resource, canopic jars, and unlocking trade resources. All of their LLs are pretty cool, and they have a lot of really cool monstrous units.

    Vampire Coast is really good as well, though I felt a bit weaker overall? I enjoy playing their army more though, very fun range-based force with a lot of cool magic. Campaign-wise their gimmick is their LLs and some special lords can act as hordes, being able to recruit on the go from their ships, and they can establish "pirate coves" in the ports of other factions, allowing them to act as pirates and mostly move around looting and pillaging, but they can also take land and empire build. My main big criticism is the LLs feel a bit slanted, with Luthor and Noctilus kind of blowing away Aranessa and Cylostra in my opinion.

    Steam Account, 3DS FC: 5129-1652-5160, Origin ID: DamusWolf
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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    I would go so far as to say that the Skaven Lord pack is essentially required if you want to play them. Jezzails and Ratling Guns are so much better than a vanilla WH2 Skaven army.

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    KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    I think one cool thing they could steal from the Medieval 2 Warhammer mod is the ability for an Empire province (possibly not Reikland, though) to actually be corrupted to Chaos rather a standard secession. It would be cool to see Chaos-skinned Empire troops and would be a greater threat than just a faction declaring war and, depending on where they are, just ignoring them. That and the games that end up with the AI just destroying the Chaos hordes (which I still enjoy maybe more b/c I never feel ready for Chaos to have the big climactic battles I'd like with them) would have like a chance to still have some Chaos stuff where corrupted provinces could have warp spawn or Chaos knights helping them or something.

    Also, and something that would be really neat, the player even as Reikland can just choose to fall to Chaos losing Karl and Volkmar but gaining new units, heroes, and new Chaos-oriented campaign objectives. That way when you have campaigns where the corruption build-up has gotten just so bad you can fall to temptation, go, "fuck it," and decide if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

    Kadoken on
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    MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    So do battle sites not spawn from siege battles?

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    They do yes. Though it has to be larger than the prior siege battle

    wbBv3fj.png
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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Another fun thing I learned while fighting the Empire: when you lose an empire settlement to rebels, those rebels become whatever the previous subfaction was (so for example if Nuln gets taken by rebels, it re-awakens Wissenland). Naturally, the Empire can then immediately re-confederate with them and get their land back.

    In short, if you're not prepared to hold Empire territory, raze it. The one nice thing is that now there's no more factions for them to confederate, because they've eaten up every single one. I've taken Wissenland, Reikland, Marienburg, Solland, and a bit of Averland, which is about all I think I can feasibly hold. But I still have to push off multiple nearly full stacks of Empire armies every turn since money is nothing to the AI.

    Cairn Wraiths and Hexwraiths are sooo much fun though. They're just completely unkillable in large numbers since the AI doesn't know how to use magic properly. I'm working to build theme armies for my various lords, and Kemmler's is a spoopy ghost army. Mortis Engine is fantastic too, love that thing.

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    MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    They do yes. Though it has to be larger than the prior siege battle

    Some googling suggests that one of the criteria is that both sides have at least 14 unit cards.

    No mention of if that counts as combined armies (i.e. stack and garrison) and I don't recall how many the defenders had.

    Will pay more attention next time.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Damn, loving me some Arkhan right now. I feel like the vamp units are underrated, bats are pretty much superior to carrion even with upgrades, wolves fill an early game niche tk are otherwise weak at, ghouls are great little skeleton upgrades, and hexwraiths are pretty awesome.

    They seem in general to be pretty great against human armies in general, especially the early game ones where they have like 10 units of peasent bowmen/archers in them.

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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    I bought WH2 for the Tomb Kings. I don't know anything about Warhammer other than Warcraft ripped it off, but the aesthetic of the Tomb Kings was so cool I spent $80 to play them.

    I love Tomb Kings. Especially Khatep.

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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    There are two lacks that makes my Total warhammer experience incomplete.
    1. Where is my Neferata! I want Neferata.
    2. I want Chaos Dwarfs


    3. I want Estalia, I know I said 2 but nobody expects the Estalian Inquisition.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Khatep is great but I could never really get his start going in Mortal Empires, I need to try him in Vortex.

    My last game as the Huntsmarshal Khatep was my bro, he took the southern half of Naggarond (I don't know what happened to Dark Elves, something went horribly wrong there I guess), and we ended up teaming up to take out Mazdamundi.

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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    As expensive as Total War games are, they are a fantastic value. There are few games in existence that can rival the series for the sheer amount of content and replayability these games have. I'm nearing 900 hours in Total Warhammer 2 and am still finding new and interesting things to do with the game.

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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    As expensive as Total War games are, they are a fantastic value. There are few games in existence that can rival the series for the sheer amount of content and replayability these games have. I'm nearing 900 hours in Total Warhammer 2 and am still finding new and interesting things to do with the game.

    700 hours for me. But yeah. The freshness where every faction has a completely unique roster is just so refreshing. Probably one reason one of my other most played games is Sword of the Stars (since they have 7 factions with unique shipdesigns and a semi-random techtree that never quite gives you the same tools to build your armies).

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    There are two lacks that makes my Total warhammer experience incomplete.
    1. Where is my Neferata! I want Neferata.
    2. I want Chaos Dwarfs


    3. I want Estalia, I know I said 2 but nobody expects the Estalian Inquisition.

    I would bet money 1 and 2 will be in game 3.

    I don’t know about 3. The area of the map covered in southern kingdoms is really weak (in both the boring sense and the literal sense, as the southern realm factions are pushovers) in Mortal Empires even with Aranessa and Ikit down there, so something needs to be added down there. CA going wild on a Dogs of War faction would be great, if that is a bridge too far then something else maybe?

    One idea I have seen is a southern realms themed collection of unique units and RoR (based on DoW with things like pikemen and dualists) that would be an Arkhan like roster addition. Then you could have a Bretonnian based lord in Estalia, an Empire based one in Tilea, and a Vampire one in Border Princes (based on the Black Prince) that would each share the unique units in addition to their base armies. There would be a unique southern realms mechanic based on trade or mercenaries that would replace the normal campaign mechanics of those factions, like the elector system, bloodlines, chivalry and whatnot.

    Jealous Deva on
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    ArdolArdol Registered User regular
    A duck! wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Care you elaborate?

    They’re two of the most fun armies in the game

    The Wood Elf army is super fucking fun and I love the Amber mechanic.

    Their colonize-everywhere-with-small-holdings campaign mechanic is terrible these days, though.

    Nakai is a great mixture of the Wood Elf/horde mechanics, to the point that I have a hard time going back to WE.

    My biggest Nakai complaint is that they need to stop treating you and the vassal faction as completely separate entities for war declaration purposes. It's super dumb to get an alliance offer one turn and then have that person war dec the vassal the next one.

    I got annoyed when that happened so I grabbed this mod to stop allies from doing that.

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    ArdolArdol Registered User regular
    btw Gotrek and Felix are available free to everyone now. You just need to go to Total War Access to get them.

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    KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    I bit the bullet and started an Archaon VH campaign. Non agression with Norsca, but I revived 4 tribes only to have the giant ice troll take over one of them. Debating whether or not it's time to invade empire, but I have a feeling I should finish off the troll first.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    I’d probably try to hot softer targets than empire until you have a couple of stacks, but chaos you can do pretty much what you want.


    Also: For the person asking earlier, this weekend on Steam Warhammer 1 is on sale. 75% off the main game and 50% off wh1 dlc.

    Warhammer 2 has Tomb kings, Vampire Coast, and the Elf lord pack 50% off as well.


    Jealous Deva on
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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    I'm coming to the end of my Alarielle campaign. I just kicked off the last ritual and the penultimate stack has been spawned down near Khemri. I thought well ahead and had 6 full stacks milling around the Ulthuan. Since they spawned so far away I had plenty of time to get my armies together. As soon as I ended my turn, however 2 epic retaliation armies spawned right on the Green Vale. The Dark Elf one started sieging the city and the Skavin one ambushed another stack I had nearby. I walked away from the ambush with my army in tatters but victorious. The siege had to be lifted right away since I was at about -10k gpt without my trade income and all my armies started taking attrition damage. It wouldn't have been all that hard of a fight if I hadn't taken an entire turn of bankruptcy attrition. I won but again my army was in tatters. A couple of turns later the first stacks of the vortex armies show up on Ulthuan, down in Tyrion's territory.

    Tonight I'm going to beat back these guys and hopefully finish out the campaign.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    So Arkhan Vortex, I finally start making some progress against settra and frikken Kroq-gar DOWs both of us and starts grabbing Khemri territory like no tommorow, as he somehow has killed queek and taken the lower half of southlands and is bigger than me and Settra put together...

    Fuck Vortex Southlands, I think I am going to restart as Khatep.


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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Arkhans starting position isn't nearly as hard as it used to be, since the vampire coast means that you at least have some friends.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Weirdly the Vampire Coast wouldn't do anything for me, but tyrion and Alarielle were happy to sign up for trade agreements and non-agression pacts. It may have had something to do with their relationship with Khemri.

This discussion has been closed.