Point one, I'm not sure what the penalties are like in QP - in comp you get timed out pretty quick after leaving more than one game in a set period of time. Does QP not do that, or it's more lenient or something? I don't think it should be as harsh as comp (higher stakes in comp) but it should definitely be more than nothing.
Point two is a fantastic idea and now that you've said it I'm surprised they haven already done it.
Point three, I haven't played lately and didn't even realize that they wouldn't be able to use lines to show stacks anymore, and just naturally assumed they'd keep using colors (although if there's multiple stacks I guess they'd need multiple colors?). That sounds like an issue that definitely needs fixing.
There's basically nothing of value that can be done with the information of group sizes on the enemy team. All it does is occasionally cause people to rage and/or throw.
Ehh, I think knowing who on the enemy team is grouped up and the general stack situation is generally good and helpful to know, or at the very least I don't think there's value in hiding that info from the enemy team.
For example, knowing that these three players are in a stack together means I can reasonably assume they're probably going to be playing as a single unit, or that if there's a healer/DPS duo, there's a chance it's a hard pocket situation.
It's definitely possible it might also cause some people to rage and/or throw but that's true of every conceivable event, scenario, or choice in the game.
2/2/2 has really taught me I need to work on my dps skillz. the upside is 2/2/2 makes it reasonable to do that!
As far as QP leavers, I hate them too. Why not implement a 10 min ban like comp? What's the upside of making leaving borderline cost free? What important aspect of leaving are we protecting? Make them go to arcade for a round. And if they leave there, give them a ban for the mode they were in too.
2/2/2 has really taught me I need to work on my dps skillz. the upside is 2/2/2 makes it reasonable to do that!
As far as QP leavers, I hate them too. Why not implement a 10 min ban like comp? What's the upside of making leaving borderline cost free? What important aspect of leaving are we protecting? Make them go to arcade for a round. And if they leave there, give them a ban for the mode they were in too.
The "important aspect" being protected is people being disconnected against their will. Unless someone's leaving every 2nd QP game, they shouldn't be punished for what might be beyond their control. That doesn't apply to comp, though. If you don't have a reliable connection, stay out of ranked, in my opinion.
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
The other important thing to make leaving QP not so harsh is because when I get on I send out group invites to every PA person who's on, usually when they're in a QP. Making them wait until the end of a game that doesn't matter to play with their friends is lame.
Maybe make a special exception where leaving via accepting a group invite is punished in the current, mostly non-factor way (it's just an EXP reduction if you do it enough times in a certain amount of time, right?) vs. being a bit harsher to people who manually leave the game of their own accord.
I just don't think people should be punished for leaving the casual mode.
Like, at all.
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mightyjongyoSour CrrmEast Bay, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
I mean, it definitely sucks for people like me who exclusively play QP, but in the end it's the casual mode. I'd rather someone who doesn't want to play quit, rather than rage at me for the next 10 minutes because they have a bone to pick.
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KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
A stacking queue time penalty for repeat leavers in QP seems like a decent compromise? Maybe give people a grace period for the first leave in X hours. Wouldn't punish folks who leave the mode for legitimate reasons (going to play with friends, logging out abruptly for IRL stuff, simply not wanting to finish the round) and could hopefully deter the people who leave just so they can turn around and immediately re-queue until they get another game that satisfies them.
It's the casual mode, sure, but it's still an activity that involves 12 people whose time and participation deserves respect, within reason.
In QP getting a leaver was often a blessing - in my experience, the leaver themselves was the weak link in the team and whoever replaces them often helps us turn this thing around.
So all 2-2-2 QP requires is a decent backfill system. imo
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited September 2019
I'm certainly in the "Don't punish QP leavers" camp. Sometimes I'm on call for work and I need to be able to alt-F4 at any given time without notice. So obviously I don't play Competitive during this. But QP is there for me. I actually end up quitting matches maybe once or twice a year. But I frequently want the option.
I don't even get why it is a problem. Isn't it a vast improvement, since presumably backfills are always the same role now of whoever left?
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
1st leave in 24 hours, 50% XP reduction next game
2nd leave, no XP next 2 games
3rd leave, you just crossed into the asshole territory, 10 minute queue delay for all three roles
4th leave, now you've been upgraded to being a dick, 2 hour suspension on that game mode
A stacking queue time penalty for repeat leavers in QP seems like a decent compromise? Maybe give people a grace period for the first leave in X hours. Wouldn't punish folks who leave the mode for legitimate reasons (going to play with friends, logging out abruptly for IRL stuff, simply not wanting to finish the round) and could hopefully deter the people who leave just so they can turn around and immediately re-queue until they get another game that satisfies them.
It's the casual mode, sure, but it's still an activity that involves 12 people whose time and participation deserves respect, within reason.
It would like to see a role queue by game-type. Not sure how it would impact queue times, but the map/mode plays a huge role in my character/role choice.
Also, I played three rounds of QP-classic and they were all 2-2-2 on both sides. I don't understand anything.
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Is that actual footage from it running on the Switch? It's hard for me to believe it is
Those shots are all from the hero demo videos that they've done with the new heroes. It's basically a cinematic that may be in engine but certainly not actual gameplay.
I just don't think people should be punished for leaving the casual mode.
Like, at all.
Even if a constant stream of leavers destroys the round you're in? I'm happy to disagree with some of you guys on this, but I'm for a ban on at least QP leavers. Sometimes it doesn't matter and sometimes it's a constant stream of joiners and leavers that kind of tanks the enjoyment for everyone involved. I don't think QP is serious business, but I don't think comp is really that serious either. If you want a culture of people sticking things out, you need to punish them for rage-quitting at the drop of a hat.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited September 2019
If you connect to a match, you commit to the match. If you need to leave for an emergency, a 20 minute ban won’t be an issue. If you leave because you forgot you were going out and your partner is telling you to hurry up, you won’t mind a 20 minute ban.
If you leave because you got joined to the losing team, suck it up and play.
-Loki- on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I've got zero issue with a soft punishment like a five-minute ban for people repeatedly leaving QP games. The core of Overwatch design is a time-limited objective-oriented multiplayer game with small teams; people just skipping through multiple games in a row are screwing over the enjoyment of several other people for literally no reason (since QP has no ranking attached to it).
Frankly, I don't give a shit about "protecting" people who are getting disconnected. If their connection is unreliable enough that they're repeatedly getting DCed enough to kick off a short ban, then it isn't going to stand up to regular play anyway. The actual problem is people wanting to drop in on easy wins or getting pissy about not being able to practice "their" character.
If somebody leaves 4-5 games in the span of an hour, 5 min ban for every leave after that until they've got an hour of time where they haven't left a game. Plenty lenient for people who have to drop out of a game to do stuff, but an actual impediment for leavers.
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
The overwhelming majority of leavers I come across in QP are people who leave at the perceived last minute before a loss (probably trying to preserve some arbitrary win-loss ratio?). Generally their intuition is correct so their leaving basically hastens the inevitable, but it's still annoying as fuck and I wouldn't mind soft punishment discouraging that shit
I just don't think people should be punished for leaving the casual mode.
Like, at all.
Even if a constant stream of leavers destroys the round you're in? I'm happy to disagree with some of you guys on this, but I'm for a ban on at least QP leavers. Sometimes it doesn't matter and sometimes it's a constant stream of joiners and leavers that kind of tanks the enjoyment for everyone involved. I don't think QP is serious business, but I don't think comp is really that serious either. If you want a culture of people sticking things out, you need to punish them for rage-quitting at the drop of a hat.
There are an unquantifiable number of things that would "ruin" a QP round for some of you guys, including but not limited to: perceived bad team comps, perceived bad teammates, perceived bad maps. Someone leaving and immediately being replaced with someone else really isn't a big deal. It's QP, it's designed for players to drop in and out of if need be. It's not competitive and there is no expectation of commiting to the match other than what you've set in your own mind.
I just don't think people should be punished for leaving the casual mode.
Like, at all.
Even if a constant stream of leavers destroys the round you're in? I'm happy to disagree with some of you guys on this, but I'm for a ban on at least QP leavers. Sometimes it doesn't matter and sometimes it's a constant stream of joiners and leavers that kind of tanks the enjoyment for everyone involved. I don't think QP is serious business, but I don't think comp is really that serious either. If you want a culture of people sticking things out, you need to punish them for rage-quitting at the drop of a hat.
There are an unquantifiable number of things that would "ruin" a QP round for some of you guys, including but not limited to: perceived bad team comps, perceived bad teammates, perceived bad maps. Someone leaving and immediately being replaced with someone else really isn't a big deal. It's QP, it's designed for players to drop in and out of if need be. It's not competitive and there is no expectation of commiting to the match other than what you've set in your own mind.
Except when forced to by the powers that be for....reasons i.e. no stack and 2/2/2.
The new hotness tonight: stacks of throwers who threaten to mass report you if you report them.
On the upside, six (six!) of my reports had action on them by Blizzard in the past week or so. So those of you who wonder if things are as bad as I say, well, Blizz seems to agree with me.
I just don't think people should be punished for leaving the casual mode.
Like, at all.
Even if a constant stream of leavers destroys the round you're in? I'm happy to disagree with some of you guys on this, but I'm for a ban on at least QP leavers. Sometimes it doesn't matter and sometimes it's a constant stream of joiners and leavers that kind of tanks the enjoyment for everyone involved. I don't think QP is serious business, but I don't think comp is really that serious either. If you want a culture of people sticking things out, you need to punish them for rage-quitting at the drop of a hat.
There are an unquantifiable number of things that would "ruin" a QP round for some of you guys, including but not limited to: perceived bad team comps, perceived bad teammates, perceived bad maps. Someone leaving and immediately being replaced with someone else really isn't a big deal. It's QP, it's designed for players to drop in and out of if need be. It's not competitive and there is no expectation of commiting to the match other than what you've set in your own mind.
the cost of "leavers" is that the replacement isn't instant, and therefore I'm running 6v5 for X amount of time and if I want to win, i've got a handicap. It doesn't seem unreasonable to encourage people to commit to a game, win or lose. I remember reading Jeff's comments that quitting the end of the match doesn't speed up the load to the next match so i always hang around if i want to play a few matches in a row, but that stuff is not transparent. More visual queues at the end of the match that the next match is loading would help, and as others have mentioned above, a 'penalty' for people that are causing my time to be misused. It's not that QP is ruined, it's that i have an expectation for a particular experience, win or lose i want my team to put in the effort that i do. If others are not playing in good faith, they should be punished.
KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
Had some outrageous placement games, ended up at 3899.
I would occasionally (very seldom) get shit for picking Moira back in season 10 when I was playing last, when she wasn't quite meta. She's since been totally unchanged, except now I have to fight for her and the complaints are that she's brain dead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Had some outrageous placement games, ended up at 3899.
I would occasionally (very seldom) get shit for picking Moira back in season 10 when I was playing last, when she wasn't quite meta. She's since been totally unchanged, except now I have to fight for her and the complaints are that she's brain dead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I can understand this a little bit because Moira is relatively limited in where she applies her abilities (throw a bubble, heal /drain anything nearby, soft away sometimes), but she's still a support which means she's still doing more multi tasking than most characters in the other classes when she's being used well.
I'd wish for her ult to require more thought/skill, but I'd rather see some shield tuning first because of how good it makes her for putting damage through shields.
My only complaint with leavers on QP is getting into a match and finding out I’m backfilling in an unrecoverable loss (we’re talking point B is going to cap before I can leave the spawn room).
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Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
My only complaint with leavers on QP is getting into a match and finding out I’m backfilling in an unrecoverable loss (we’re talking point B is going to cap before I can leave the spawn room).
My response to that situation is just to exclaim "Woo! Free Backfill XP!".
I just wish people would take QP a lot less seriously. It is just for laughs, it has no lasting consequences. There is never any legit reason to get upset about anything that occurs in QP short of blatant bad sportsmanship.
I still can't believe they actually forced QP onto role queue. It seems crazy to me.
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
Had some outrageous placement games, ended up at 3899.
I would occasionally (very seldom) get shit for picking Moira back in season 10 when I was playing last, when she wasn't quite meta. She's since been totally unchanged, except now I have to fight for her and the complaints are that she's brain dead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I can understand this a little bit because Moira is relatively limited in where she applies her abilities (throw a bubble, heal /drain anything nearby, soft away sometimes), but she's still a support which means she's still doing more multi tasking than most characters in the other classes when she's being used well.
I'd wish for her ult to require more thought/skill, but I'd rather see some shield tuning first because of how good it makes her for putting damage through shields.
She's pretty odd in that she's both decent at dealing with shields (damage orb, her ult) but also very very hindered by them (it greatly limits her ability to recharge her healing 'ammo'). It's definitely not the toughest ult to pilot, for sure, but it's also not ridiculously threatening, either, and she's never more vulnerable than when she's ulting. (Which is particularly problematic because Sigma's rock toss seems to have the hitbox of pre-nerf Doomfist punches.)
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Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
One-tricking DF has had some success. I'm regularly forcing the other team off their comfort picks and onto counters, usually to little success. He's still feast or famine (carry or feed) but there's a lot more feasting these days now that my accuracy with his primary fire has improved and my decision-making is much better.
The higher I go, the better my playstyle has been received, since my teammates are better able to take advantage of the space and time I create, rather than passively waiting for me to kill the entire enemy team by myself. Displacing an enemy tank is often fight-winning on its own, since my tanks will take the space to snowball fights. Plus, I actually get healing from Ana now, lol.
My only complaint with leavers on QP is getting into a match and finding out I’m backfilling in an unrecoverable loss (we’re talking point B is going to cap before I can leave the spawn room).
My response to that situation is just to exclaim "Woo! Free Backfill XP!".
I just wish people would take QP a lot less seriously. It is just for laughs, it has no lasting consequences. There is never any legit reason to get upset about anything that occurs in QP short of blatant bad sportsmanship.
I still can't believe they actually forced QP onto role queue. It seems crazy to me.
I feel like I've mostly said my piece on it so I don't really want to keep arguing, but leaving your team down 5v6 for a push feels like bad sportsmanship. The point about people throwing if they can't leave is well taken, but then I guess the real problem is so many players are Actual Children (TM) and/or adults who should be ashamed of themselves. At a certain point the game systems can't compensate for that.
also its not "free xp"...i hear that a lot but you get in the game and you get like 200xp? whereas if you had gotten into a full game you get more exp. now you are in a game that is going to last 30 seconds (or less) and then you have to wait for all the end screens, play of the game, voting, exp screen, before getting into (hopefully) a real match.
i'm hesitant of the logic but if someone leaves and the last point is being capped, maybe just let that team win and don't backfill?
Posts
Point two is a fantastic idea and now that you've said it I'm surprised they haven already done it.
Point three, I haven't played lately and didn't even realize that they wouldn't be able to use lines to show stacks anymore, and just naturally assumed they'd keep using colors (although if there's multiple stacks I guess they'd need multiple colors?). That sounds like an issue that definitely needs fixing.
For example, knowing that these three players are in a stack together means I can reasonably assume they're probably going to be playing as a single unit, or that if there's a healer/DPS duo, there's a chance it's a hard pocket situation.
It's definitely possible it might also cause some people to rage and/or throw but that's true of every conceivable event, scenario, or choice in the game.
As far as QP leavers, I hate them too. Why not implement a 10 min ban like comp? What's the upside of making leaving borderline cost free? What important aspect of leaving are we protecting? Make them go to arcade for a round. And if they leave there, give them a ban for the mode they were in too.
The "important aspect" being protected is people being disconnected against their will. Unless someone's leaving every 2nd QP game, they shouldn't be punished for what might be beyond their control. That doesn't apply to comp, though. If you don't have a reliable connection, stay out of ranked, in my opinion.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Maybe make a special exception where leaving via accepting a group invite is punished in the current, mostly non-factor way (it's just an EXP reduction if you do it enough times in a certain amount of time, right?) vs. being a bit harsher to people who manually leave the game of their own accord.
Like, at all.
It's the casual mode, sure, but it's still an activity that involves 12 people whose time and participation deserves respect, within reason.
So all 2-2-2 QP requires is a decent backfill system. imo
I don't even get why it is a problem. Isn't it a vast improvement, since presumably backfills are always the same role now of whoever left?
2nd leave, no XP next 2 games
3rd leave, you just crossed into the asshole territory, 10 minute queue delay for all three roles
4th leave, now you've been upgraded to being a dick, 2 hour suspension on that game mode
It's called
I could get behind this.
Also, I played three rounds of QP-classic and they were all 2-2-2 on both sides. I don't understand anything.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Those shots are all from the hero demo videos that they've done with the new heroes. It's basically a cinematic that may be in engine but certainly not actual gameplay.
Even if a constant stream of leavers destroys the round you're in? I'm happy to disagree with some of you guys on this, but I'm for a ban on at least QP leavers. Sometimes it doesn't matter and sometimes it's a constant stream of joiners and leavers that kind of tanks the enjoyment for everyone involved. I don't think QP is serious business, but I don't think comp is really that serious either. If you want a culture of people sticking things out, you need to punish them for rage-quitting at the drop of a hat.
If you leave because you got joined to the losing team, suck it up and play.
Frankly, I don't give a shit about "protecting" people who are getting disconnected. If their connection is unreliable enough that they're repeatedly getting DCed enough to kick off a short ban, then it isn't going to stand up to regular play anyway. The actual problem is people wanting to drop in on easy wins or getting pissy about not being able to practice "their" character.
If somebody leaves 4-5 games in the span of an hour, 5 min ban for every leave after that until they've got an hour of time where they haven't left a game. Plenty lenient for people who have to drop out of a game to do stuff, but an actual impediment for leavers.
There are an unquantifiable number of things that would "ruin" a QP round for some of you guys, including but not limited to: perceived bad team comps, perceived bad teammates, perceived bad maps. Someone leaving and immediately being replaced with someone else really isn't a big deal. It's QP, it's designed for players to drop in and out of if need be. It's not competitive and there is no expectation of commiting to the match other than what you've set in your own mind.
Except when forced to by the powers that be for....reasons i.e. no stack and 2/2/2.
On the upside, six (six!) of my reports had action on them by Blizzard in the past week or so. So those of you who wonder if things are as bad as I say, well, Blizz seems to agree with me.
the cost of "leavers" is that the replacement isn't instant, and therefore I'm running 6v5 for X amount of time and if I want to win, i've got a handicap. It doesn't seem unreasonable to encourage people to commit to a game, win or lose. I remember reading Jeff's comments that quitting the end of the match doesn't speed up the load to the next match so i always hang around if i want to play a few matches in a row, but that stuff is not transparent. More visual queues at the end of the match that the next match is loading would help, and as others have mentioned above, a 'penalty' for people that are causing my time to be misused. It's not that QP is ruined, it's that i have an expectation for a particular experience, win or lose i want my team to put in the effort that i do. If others are not playing in good faith, they should be punished.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
I would occasionally (very seldom) get shit for picking Moira back in season 10 when I was playing last, when she wasn't quite meta. She's since been totally unchanged, except now I have to fight for her and the complaints are that she's brain dead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I can understand this a little bit because Moira is relatively limited in where she applies her abilities (throw a bubble, heal /drain anything nearby, soft away sometimes), but she's still a support which means she's still doing more multi tasking than most characters in the other classes when she's being used well.
I'd wish for her ult to require more thought/skill, but I'd rather see some shield tuning first because of how good it makes her for putting damage through shields.
My response to that situation is just to exclaim "Woo! Free Backfill XP!".
I just wish people would take QP a lot less seriously. It is just for laughs, it has no lasting consequences. There is never any legit reason to get upset about anything that occurs in QP short of blatant bad sportsmanship.
I still can't believe they actually forced QP onto role queue. It seems crazy to me.
So it gets role queue.
Thank god.
Wouldn't be surprised if they went ahead and tossed points and leaver penalties in there and call it unranked.
She's pretty odd in that she's both decent at dealing with shields (damage orb, her ult) but also very very hindered by them (it greatly limits her ability to recharge her healing 'ammo'). It's definitely not the toughest ult to pilot, for sure, but it's also not ridiculously threatening, either, and she's never more vulnerable than when she's ulting. (Which is particularly problematic because Sigma's rock toss seems to have the hitbox of pre-nerf Doomfist punches.)
Yeh, I think it needs to be renamed. There's not much "Quick" about 5 minute long queues.
The higher I go, the better my playstyle has been received, since my teammates are better able to take advantage of the space and time I create, rather than passively waiting for me to kill the entire enemy team by myself. Displacing an enemy tank is often fight-winning on its own, since my tanks will take the space to snowball fights. Plus, I actually get healing from Ana now, lol.
I feel like I've mostly said my piece on it so I don't really want to keep arguing, but leaving your team down 5v6 for a push feels like bad sportsmanship. The point about people throwing if they can't leave is well taken, but then I guess the real problem is so many players are Actual Children (TM) and/or adults who should be ashamed of themselves. At a certain point the game systems can't compensate for that.
i'm hesitant of the logic but if someone leaves and the last point is being capped, maybe just let that team win and don't backfill?
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder