That odds calculator they all use would be a lot more interesting if it gave damage distribution instead of win/loss chance.
Agreed. My personal stats show a slight increase in average damage per round but a larger increase in standard deviation. So, the games are only a little faster, but are substantially swingier. There is a lot more “oops take 25 because of first attack” even though overall damage is roughly the same.
I decided to look back through old forum threads to try to find the decklists that I had previously used to hit Legend with. I know that they were Murloc Paladin, Big Warrior, and Secret Hunter, but I didn't think to save my actual lists anywhere except as posts here. The search function hasn't helped much.
I definitely feel like the post-rotation environment will be biased towards random value generation. I think that if combo decks become enough of a thing that they can be tier 1 or even solid tier 2, then the meta has enough tools to make them pay for it. Year of the Dragon looks like it's going all-in on making Kibler happy.
Yep. Year of the Dragon definitely was very, very biased towards random value generation.
Shadowhope on
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
I have sometimes thought it might be interesting to see a more aggro focused BGs meta, but in the end I don't think the design of BGs allows for that to ever be fun or interesting.
That odds calculator they all use would be a lot more interesting if it gave damage distribution instead of win/loss chance.
Agreed. My personal stats show a slight increase in average damage per round but a larger increase in standard deviation. So, the games are only a little faster, but are substantially swingier. There is a lot more “oops take 25 because of first attack” even though overall damage is roughly the same.
They're probably running a Monte Carlo-simulation anyway, so they have the data. They just choose to obfuscate all the interesting information, for some reason.
Sic transit gloria mundi.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
a fun meta where i've just hit T4 two turns ago, this is my warband (which i'm feeling pretty okay about!), it's still early no one has died yet, and i run up against a Patches with a full fucking board of gigantic ass pirates and i just explode
oooookay
take your highroll win and be off, then
(admittedly the positioning is off, i should've had whelp sitting in the back but timer was going down and i was doing some last minute rolls and found 2nd goldgrubber)
My hope is that they come out with a balance/adjustment patch in a... somewhat timely manner. Arcane Cannon and Macaw do not belong on T2. Period the end. Arcane Cannon should be T3 and Macaw should HONESTLY be T5 if not T6, but the reality of the situation is that they'll simply bump Macaw up to T3 and pat themselves on the back and call it a job well done and then go radio silent once more.
LMFAOOOO YOU FUCKING CLOWNS
edit: oh my god the jaraxxus buff, did they learn nothing from Tirion? holy shit that's, YIKES. THAT'S NOT GOOD.
Dibby on
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
+4
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
T3 might make it rare and late into the pool enough that you can no longer consistently pick it up and force beasts.
That odds calculator they all use would be a lot more interesting if it gave damage distribution instead of win/loss chance.
Agreed. My personal stats show a slight increase in average damage per round but a larger increase in standard deviation. So, the games are only a little faster, but are substantially swingier. There is a lot more “oops take 25 because of first attack” even though overall damage is roughly the same.
They're probably running a Monte Carlo-simulation anyway, so they have the data. They just choose to obfuscate all the interesting information, for some reason.
Its now a 1-mana, give your hero +2 attack this turn, gives you second slice which is also a 1-mana, give your hero +2 attack this turn.
Mixed thoughts on this.
So, let's start with the positive. It's fucking fantastic that it finally no longer costs 0 mana. This means no more free early game removal (play out 1/2 drop, Twin Slice as backstab), no more T3 Satyr activations, no more T5 Glaivebound activations, no more colossal boardswings with T5 Warglaives+Twinslice, MUCH less overall power with Altruis.
HOWEVER. I really don't understand this whole "well if we're nerfing it we gotta also buff it to make up for the nerf" mentality they have going on. Like, no! No!! Don't also then give it more damage! That's a lategame buff that gives DHs more reach! Even MORE reach! This is like when they decided "let's buff Altruis's attack". There's no need! I promise you there's NO NEED.
Overall it'll probably make things feel less oppressive early on, though, so, sure. I think this is good overall, but, eeeeeeh.
Dibby on
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Nah the buff is good, 1 mana +1 attack is basically unplayable. It's just the hero power, but it takes a card. I'm not even sure that 1 mana +2 is playable, Twin Slice's power comes entirely from being free so you can tempo it out with Satyr or Warglaives or the 1 mana growing demon or a stupid Altruis turn or what have you.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
edit: oh my god the jaraxxus buff, did they learn nothing from Tirion? holy shit that's, YIKES. THAT'S NOT GOOD.
nah jaraxxus still isn't going to be that good. the reason Tirion was so busted is that +1/+1 was getting like triple-quadruple value from all the divine shields.
edit: also good to see they made Maiev literally playable, I was fuckin' livid when I saw how that originally worked
i wonder what it could mean.........................
macawgrounds is really really boring and i feel like i literally have to grab macaw on T2 and rush to T4 triple into goldrinn to actually win games and that sucks ass
This is like when they decided "let's buff Altruis's attack". There's no need! I promise you there's NO NEED.
Not really. Altruis would still do basically the same thing if they didn't buff his attack when they nerfed his mana. He'd still be played just as much. If all they did to Twin Slice was the mana nerf, it would be a useless unplayable card. I think since the DH's kit is still so small, they're trying to tweak cards in a fashion that they're still playable.
Maybe once DH has been around for a year or two, they'll be more willing to Warsong Commander cards since the class will have more to fall back on.
Its now a 1-mana, give your hero +2 attack this turn, gives you second slice which is also a 1-mana, give your hero +2 attack this turn.
Mixed thoughts on this.
So, let's start with the positive. It's fucking fantastic that it finally no longer costs 0 mana. This means no more free early game removal (play out 1/2 drop, Twin Slice as backstab), no more T3 Satyr activations, no more T5 Glaivebound activations, no more colossal boardswings with T5 Warglaives+Twinslice, MUCH less overall power with Altruis.
HOWEVER. I really don't understand this whole "well if we're nerfing it we gotta also buff it to make up for the nerf" mentality they have going on. Like, no! No!! Don't also then give it more damage! That's a lategame buff that gives DHs more reach! Even MORE reach! This is like when they decided "let's buff Altruis's attack". There's no need! I promise you there's NO NEED.
Overall it'll probably make things feel less oppressive early on, though, so, sure. I think this is good overall, but, eeeeeeh.
Nah the buff is good, 1 mana +1 attack is basically unplayable. It's just the hero power, but it takes a card. I'm not even sure that 1 mana +2 is playable, Twin Slice's power comes entirely from being free so you can tempo it out with Satyr or Warglaives or the 1 mana growing demon or a stupid Altruis turn or what have you.
I'm definitly leaning more towards 3clipse's point of view here. Like a twinspell equip a 2/1 weapon for 1 mana would be played, but this is a weapon that has to be played this turn. It basically just combos well with the lifesteal weapon and warglaives.
Also, it costing mana makes it a lot harder to move other cards into the left hand outcast position. No more free shifts of skull or eyebeams.
edit: oh my god the jaraxxus buff, did they learn nothing from Tirion? holy shit that's, YIKES. THAT'S NOT GOOD.
nah jaraxxus still isn't going to be that good. the reason Tirion was so busted is that +1/+1 was getting like triple-quadruple value from all the divine shields.
Not just that, it was also far more consistent to get a smattering of solid tribeless minions. Jaraxxus requires forcing demons to get any hero power benefit, and if you're just not getting offered them you're still going to crash and burn. And on Tirion it wasn't too hard to get full +7/+7 hero power value by the mid game. Jaraxxus doesn't even get full value if he's rolling with any non-demon synergy cards like Wrath Weaver or Soul Juggler. He's been dumpster tier forever so it'll be nice if he at least becomes a viable pick for a change.
I'm surprised no Hooktusk nerf yet. Guess these changes must have already been planned and they haven't reacted to Hooktusk's ridiculous power yet.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I love this dumb card so much.
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GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
edit: oh my god the jaraxxus buff, did they learn nothing from Tirion? holy shit that's, YIKES. THAT'S NOT GOOD.
nah jaraxxus still isn't going to be that good. the reason Tirion was so busted is that +1/+1 was getting like triple-quadruple value from all the divine shields.
Not just that, it was also far more consistent to get a smattering of solid tribeless minions. Jaraxxus requires forcing demons to get any hero power benefit, and if you're just not getting offered them you're still going to crash and burn. And on Tirion it wasn't too hard to get full +7/+7 hero power value by the mid game. Jaraxxus doesn't even get full value if he's rolling with any non-demon synergy cards like Wrath Weaver or Soul Juggler. He's been dumpster tier forever so it'll be nice if he at least becomes a viable pick for a change.
I'm surprised no Hooktusk nerf yet. Guess these changes must have already been planned and they haven't reacted to Hooktusk's ridiculous power yet.
They moved Sauralisk to tier 2, that kills the best Hooktusk strat. They'll prob just wait to see if it's enough.
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BeastehTHAT WOULD NOTKILL DRACULARegistered Userregular
I previously considered myself a fairly decent BGs player peaking at 8k but in the last few days I've free fallen to 5.9
Just game after game where I get killed from 20+ life by someone who highrolled the giganuts kicking me out dead last or 7th
So I'm done with it until they address the problem cards
I'm sure RNG certainly plays a big role, but maybe not as bad as we think since it's also learning the new meta?
Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09 P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359 Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
You are supposed to use your hero power to get the outcasts on your right side.
Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09 P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359 Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
You are supposed to use your hero power to get the outcasts on your right side.
You only have the discover a card hero power for half the time. Eventually you get an upgraded version of the DH hero power.
In that part, your deck has become more like a regular demon Hunter deck. It does contain a few big cards, which is why you shouldn't draw that heavily if you got a card in hand you want played, as it can clutter. In the second part, you are better of keeping your starting hand as low as possible: in cost and size.
Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09 P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359 Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
Just finished the adventure. What is this, why does a card game have a more interesting story than the RPG it's inspired from
There were some really cool stories all over the WoW experience. The Green Hills of Stranglethorn "book", the whole Defias plotline, Ulduar... lots of things! Just hard to remember between all the "kill 5 boars" quests.
Posts
Agreed. My personal stats show a slight increase in average damage per round but a larger increase in standard deviation. So, the games are only a little faster, but are substantially swingier. There is a lot more “oops take 25 because of first attack” even though overall damage is roughly the same.
But I did find this great forum post from a year ago:
Yep. Year of the Dragon definitely was very, very biased towards random value generation.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
Murloc meta confirmed!
They're probably running a Monte Carlo-simulation anyway, so they have the data. They just choose to obfuscate all the interesting information, for some reason.
Its now a 1-mana, give your hero +2 attack this turn, gives you second slice which is also a 1-mana, give your hero +2 attack this turn.
a fun meta where i've just hit T4 two turns ago, this is my warband (which i'm feeling pretty okay about!), it's still early no one has died yet, and i run up against a Patches with a full fucking board of gigantic ass pirates and i just explode
oooookay
take your highroll win and be off, then
(admittedly the positioning is off, i should've had whelp sitting in the back but timer was going down and i was doing some last minute rolls and found 2nd goldgrubber)
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
LMFAOOOO YOU FUCKING CLOWNS
edit: oh my god the jaraxxus buff, did they learn nothing from Tirion? holy shit that's, YIKES. THAT'S NOT GOOD.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Having fewer of them will be good, but this will just make high rolls even better. Maybe a slight buff to AFKay?
Anyway, I buy Macaws even in late game so, like Dibby said, this probably won't change things too much.
That’s how they said they do it, yes.
I'm pretty sure nobody can NOT read that tweet and hear his laugh.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
Mixed thoughts on this.
So, let's start with the positive. It's fucking fantastic that it finally no longer costs 0 mana. This means no more free early game removal (play out 1/2 drop, Twin Slice as backstab), no more T3 Satyr activations, no more T5 Glaivebound activations, no more colossal boardswings with T5 Warglaives+Twinslice, MUCH less overall power with Altruis.
HOWEVER. I really don't understand this whole "well if we're nerfing it we gotta also buff it to make up for the nerf" mentality they have going on. Like, no! No!! Don't also then give it more damage! That's a lategame buff that gives DHs more reach! Even MORE reach! This is like when they decided "let's buff Altruis's attack". There's no need! I promise you there's NO NEED.
Overall it'll probably make things feel less oppressive early on, though, so, sure. I think this is good overall, but, eeeeeeh.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
nah jaraxxus still isn't going to be that good. the reason Tirion was so busted is that +1/+1 was getting like triple-quadruple value from all the divine shields.
edit: also good to see they made Maiev literally playable, I was fuckin' livid when I saw how that originally worked
hmmmmm
the difference between these two images......
i wonder what it could mean.........................
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Maybe once DH has been around for a year or two, they'll be more willing to Warsong Commander cards since the class will have more to fall back on.
I'm definitly leaning more towards 3clipse's point of view here. Like a twinspell equip a 2/1 weapon for 1 mana would be played, but this is a weapon that has to be played this turn. It basically just combos well with the lifesteal weapon and warglaives.
Also, it costing mana makes it a lot harder to move other cards into the left hand outcast position. No more free shifts of skull or eyebeams.
It was also a BIT mentally overstimulating trying to quickly look at 7 minions and discern if any are good at a glance, though.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I'm surprised no Hooktusk nerf yet. Guess these changes must have already been planned and they haven't reacted to Hooktusk's ridiculous power yet.
They moved Sauralisk to tier 2, that kills the best Hooktusk strat. They'll prob just wait to see if it's enough.
Just game after game where I get killed from 20+ life by someone who highrolled the giganuts kicking me out dead last or 7th
So I'm done with it until they address the problem cards
Right now it's an unfun waste of time
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
See my profile here!
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
See my profile here!
Mother Sharaz is kicking my ass
What a step up in difficulty, good lord
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
You only have the discover a card hero power for half the time. Eventually you get an upgraded version of the DH hero power.
In that part, your deck has become more like a regular demon Hunter deck. It does contain a few big cards, which is why you shouldn't draw that heavily if you got a card in hand you want played, as it can clutter. In the second part, you are better of keeping your starting hand as low as possible: in cost and size.
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
See my profile here!
I’m focused on griftlands and monster train until this gets sorted out. And maybe finishing the book on time. Maybe.