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Australian & NZ Politics: Double Dipping in Luxonry

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    QR codes are mildly useful, as they help with tracing. The vaxpass on the other hand is without benefit. It's useless at best and actively harmful at worst. Eg, flights. You can fly with either a vax pass or a proof of a negative test. Ironically, the unvaccinated with the negative test are safer to let on a flight than an untested person with a vax pass. Because the vaccine does not prevent infection and spreading, especially against omicron. What the vax pass does is lull people in a false sense of security. It's also annoying.

    They can be, if they're used right.

    While I still try to use the QR where I can, that one of my job sites had at least one confirmed case on site during early Delta, and the first I heard about it was showing up to work after my weekend (I usually get Wednesday/Thursday off) and being told "Hey, you know Dimitri was here on Monday and Tuesday? Yeah, he tested positive for Covid Wednesday. There's like 20 people in isolation."

    Got my information second hand, no alerts on the Covid App.

    So, fucking load of good that is for keeping me informed.

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I mean, sure. but, you weren't there at the same time as them, if i'm reading things right? So there's no need for you to be notified as you weren't even a casual contact at that point?

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    I mean, sure. but, you weren't there at the same time as them, if i'm reading things right? So there's no need for you to be notified as you weren't even a casual contact at that point?

    No, I was there both the Monday and Tuesday, when he was likely contagious (he tested positive Wednesday because he was symptomatic). And while I don't recall any in-person contacts, I was definitely in shared areas.

    Not saying I should have been told to isolate, but a "be extra vigilant and get a test as soon as possible" notice would have been a reasonable option.

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    oohhh right. I read your original post wrong and thought that Wed/thursday were your days in.

    Ignore me, i am apparently still learning reading comprehension.

    does your Covid thing have bluetooth tracking/talking like ours does?

    My one ping came because I was in the same mall complex as a case. but they were upstairs and well a good distance and I was downstairs and in the food court. But apparently the locations were close enough and something with the bluetooth being on meant i got a ping.

    but yeah, i agree with your assessment. you should have gotten something

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Jesus Christ Greg Hunt is a fucking asshole, trying to excuse the high Covid death rate with the excuse that 60% were in palliative care anyway.

    Fuck you you shit stain.

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    exisexis Registered User regular

    Nandor Tanczos (ex Green MP) with what I think is a fair summary Labour's current position. Spoiling for long-ish quote:
    It's hard to find the right words to express my disgust at Jacinda Ardern and this Government.
    Labour was elected with a huge mandate to do something serious about growing inequality, including the housing crisis.

    I know it takes time to make change but I can't see any evidence that they are even considering actions that might have a serious impact. In fact she indicated on election night that she was ruling out anything that would impact the wealthy,

    I guess in the hope they could keep ruling the centre for ever.
    Is that the extent of Labour's aspirations now? To rule without upsetting the wealthy?
    I know Jacinda is dropping in the polls and media is blaming Covid. I disagree.

    IMO people are beginning to think beyond covid & remembering why they voted for her in the 1st place. I'd say despite the constant undermining by RW commentators and a vocal buy very small group of anti-vaxxers, the vast majority of NZers are very happy with our covid response.

    You just have to look at the death rates overseas to see we are doing very well.
    I think the reason why they aren't dropping more is because a National / Act government would be worse in every respect.

    What worries me is that instead of becoming MORE progressive to woo back the people that voted Labour to get change, they may misread what is happening and become even more conservative.
    What a waste of a parliamentary majority.

    I agree with this take completely. Labour has IMO done reasonably well with Covid but it's also served as a fairly convenient distraction for the fact that they're not really committed to anything left of center. Even with slightly dipping poll numbers, I don't see any reason that - heading into the next election - they wouldn't just stay the course. That course being paying lip service to social uplift whilst carefully avoiding doing anything that might run the risk of upsetting the landed upper middle class.

    I dunno, I guess this is all very typical of the problem with center-left parties. It's just uncomfortable as a lefty when everything is skewed toward the right, including the reds.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Jesus Christ Greg Hunt is a fucking asshole, trying to excuse the high Covid death rate with the excuse that 60% were in palliative care anyway.

    Fuck you you shit stain.

    Looks like he's a proper ghunt.

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    TefTef Registered User regular
    exis wrote: »

    Nandor Tanczos (ex Green MP) with what I think is a fair summary Labour's current position. Spoiling for long-ish quote:
    It's hard to find the right words to express my disgust at Jacinda Ardern and this Government.
    Labour was elected with a huge mandate to do something serious about growing inequality, including the housing crisis.

    I know it takes time to make change but I can't see any evidence that they are even considering actions that might have a serious impact. In fact she indicated on election night that she was ruling out anything that would impact the wealthy,

    I guess in the hope they could keep ruling the centre for ever.
    Is that the extent of Labour's aspirations now? To rule without upsetting the wealthy?
    I know Jacinda is dropping in the polls and media is blaming Covid. I disagree.

    IMO people are beginning to think beyond covid & remembering why they voted for her in the 1st place. I'd say despite the constant undermining by RW commentators and a vocal buy very small group of anti-vaxxers, the vast majority of NZers are very happy with our covid response.

    You just have to look at the death rates overseas to see we are doing very well.
    I think the reason why they aren't dropping more is because a National / Act government would be worse in every respect.

    What worries me is that instead of becoming MORE progressive to woo back the people that voted Labour to get change, they may misread what is happening and become even more conservative.
    What a waste of a parliamentary majority.

    I agree with this take completely. Labour has IMO done reasonably well with Covid but it's also served as a fairly convenient distraction for the fact that they're not really committed to anything left of center. Even with slightly dipping poll numbers, I don't see any reason that - heading into the next election - they wouldn't just stay the course. That course being paying lip service to social uplift whilst carefully avoiding doing anything that might run the risk of upsetting the landed upper middle class.

    I dunno, I guess this is all very typical of the problem with center-left parties. It's just uncomfortable as a lefty when everything is skewed toward the right, including the reds.

    Y’all know I’m a radical.

    I do think the Arden government has done a pretty good job. The changes to minimum wages and sick days were super important and long overdue. The work they have been pushing on collective bargaining requirements is fucking huge, if they get it over the line.

    I hate it, but I can admit that it’s political suicide to go after property investors at the moment. If labour can spend the next 5-10 years rebuilding NZ union movement, that will pay dividends for generations to come. That said, They should be going after farmers and the finance sector, but that’s a fuckin pipe dream.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    It does make me sick that with all this (understandable) frustration with labor.. people seem more inclined to vote national or act.

    Which is totally going to make the better.

    This stuff is hideously depressing RIGHT now - I have no idea how the fuck I can get off the supported living benefit without cratering my health even further - but it's already not a safe not stable place to be...

    And that's without even be able to think about my own home or similar. (Fun fact: near on half my benefit gets eaten by rent every week. Just love that my landlords are allowed to benefit from government welfare, but heaven forbid I have enough to see a psychologist regularly or afford a real dentist)

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    It does make me sick that with all this (understandable) frustration with labor.. people seem more inclined to vote national or act.

    Which is totally going to make the better.

    This stuff is hideously depressing RIGHT now - I have no idea how the fuck I can get off the supported living benefit without cratering my health even further - but it's already not a safe not stable place to be...

    And that's without even be able to think about my own home or similar. (Fun fact: near on half my benefit gets eaten by rent every week. Just love that my landlords are allowed to benefit from government welfare, but heaven forbid I have enough to see a psychologist regularly or afford a real dentist)

    Yup. It's the same shit we're seeing in the US. "The left didn't do enough right to make things better in a relatively short time*, lets put people who will absolutely be worse back in charge."
    * Ardern has governed since 2017, and a pandemic has been the predominant factor of almost half of that.

    I can understand arseing a government that has been in power too long, and is no longer trying, even if it's putting in people who'll be worse in the short term, in the hopes of shaking them out of complacency. This wouldn't be that.

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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    The Labour govt is halfway through its 3 terms*, that is not a short period of time to have done very little. Especially when they have their majority. Frankly, it looks like Labour owes far more to the dysfunction of the National party than to their own success. National appoints a mediocre leader who isn't an obvious trash fire and suddenly Labour support starts dropping.
    And I don't buy that Labour are scared of investors etc. They've made it very clear that they will make society changing decisions that majorly impact businesses at the drop of a hat. I find it hard to make or accept excuses for a govt that is willing to make some massive changes in a very short period of time and unwilling to make other comparatively small changes.

    *not that we should rely on the 3 terms "rule", it's a recent thing that is not a hard rule. Labour could lose (I mean, there's a chance albeit a very small one) come next election. Which ought to be an incentive to get things done now rather than later, but I guess they'd rather play the 2nd term safe to secure a 3rd term? By which point NZers will have been waiting 6+ years and Labour may not have their secure majority anymore.

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    TefTef Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    It does make me sick that with all this (understandable) frustration with labor.. people seem more inclined to vote national or act.

    Which is totally going to make the better.

    This stuff is hideously depressing RIGHT now - I have no idea how the fuck I can get off the supported living benefit without cratering my health even further - but it's already not a safe not stable place to be...

    And that's without even be able to think about my own home or similar. (Fun fact: near on half my benefit gets eaten by rent every week. Just love that my landlords are allowed to benefit from government welfare, but heaven forbid I have enough to see a psychologist regularly or afford a real dentist)

    Yup. It's the same shit we're seeing in the US. "The left didn't do enough right to make things better in a relatively short time*, lets put people who will absolutely be worse back in charge."
    * Ardern has governed since 2017, and a pandemic has been the predominant factor of almost half of that.

    I can understand arseing a government that has been in power too long, and is no longer trying, even if it's putting in people who'll be worse in the short term, in the hopes of shaking them out of complacency. This wouldn't be that.

    I don’t really want to get into it here, but the Biden administration and the Arden parliament is an apples to oranges comparison in the way you’re painting it

    help a fellow forumer meet their mental health care needs because USA healthcare sucks!

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    The five stages:
    • 11.59pm 27 February: Self-isolation opens for New Zealanders and eligible travellers coming from Australia
    • 11.59pm 13 March: Open to New Zealanders and eligible travellers from the rest of the world; skilled workers earning at least 1.5x median wage; working holiday visas
    • 11.59pm 12 April: Offshore temporary visa holders who still meet visa requirements; 5000 international students; consideration of further class exemptions for critical workforces that do not meet the 1.5x median wage test
    • By July: Anyone from Australia; visa-waiver travel; a new Accredited Employer Work Visa opens and skilled worker exemption is phased out
    • In October: Border reopens to the rest of the world, all visa categories fully reopen

    Unvaccinated travellers would still go into MIQ, but with less demand the Defence Force would begin withdrawing and some facilities would return to being hotels. A core quarantine capacity would be maintained and scaled up, to become a National Quarantine Service.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/460800/covid-19-border-reopening-for-new-zealanders-confirmed-for-end-of-february-what-you-need-to-know

    Border announcement made just now.

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    TefTef Registered User regular
    Kiwi business will do literally anything to avoid investing in training kiwis. What a fucking a joke

    help a fellow forumer meet their mental health care needs because USA healthcare sucks!

    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better

    bit.ly/2XQM1ke
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    We’re seeing something similar here. The hospitality industry is screaming for the borders to be reopened claiming they need their foreign staff back because there’s a shortage of Australian workers.

    We all know why they want foreign workers, and it’s not a local worker shortage.

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    plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    edited February 2022
    In South Australia, the hospitality industry has been... hilarious.

    In October, they held a MOCK FUNERAL for the "hospitality industry" down one of the main streets of Adelaide, saying without open borders the industry would die.
    In December, after borders opened, and EVERYONE CANCELLED THEIR CHRISTMAS LUNCHES/DINNERS, they immediately campaigned for compensation.
    And now, they're campaigning for fewer restrictions.

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    Road BlockRoad Block Registered User regular
    Ah Barnaby you monumental fuckup you

    2 days ago, telling the Minister who called Morrison a psycho to 'out themselves'

    https://www.9news.com.au/national/barnaby-joyce-text-messages-psycho-fraud-scott-morrison-gladys-berejiklian-liberal-minister/4e682543-54b9-4f0d-9e80-29c4b6946684

    And tonight's headline 'Barnaby Joyce labelled Scott Morrison a ‘liar’ and ‘hypocrite’ in leaked text'

    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/barnaby-joyce-labelled-scott-morrison-a-liar-and-hypocrite-in-text-20220203-p59tms.html

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    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    Joyce says he offered his resignation but Morrison refused.

    It's damning of the level of our political journalists that this line was reported verbatim without any question or analysis. Joyce offered his resignation to Morrison? Of what? Morrison isn't Joyce's boss, he's the leader of the Nationals, Morrison has no control over the positions that he holds, to accept or refuse. Joyce can resign at any time with or without Morrison's permission and serves by the choice made by the national party room.

    Just bizarre that this line is being parroted without question despite it being a blatant misrepresentation of reality.

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited February 2022
    Bob Carr has come out saying the text leak was from Dutton. Dutton of course has denied it, but it would make snse - Dutton was the main front runner to take leadership from Turbull until Scotty swooped in with the win. He's probably petty enough to still be pissed about that. And with the current polls, probably sees an opprotunity to swoop in and take the leadership himself.

    -Loki- on
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    Road BlockRoad Block Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Bob Carr has come out saying the text leak was from Dutton. Dutton of course has denied it, but it would make snse - Dutton was the main front runner to take leadership from Turbull until Scotty swooped in with the win. He's probably petty enough to still be pissed about that. And with the current polls, probably sees an opprotunity to swoop in and take the leadership himself.

    As much as the idea of Dutton being the one amuses me. It also depends on Gladys complaining about Morrison being a 'horrible person' to the single most morally bankrupt person in a party where being willing to fuck your Grandmothers bones for personal gain is a membership requirement. As much as Koloa killer really shouldn't be throwing stones about other people's failings I don't know that she's that oblivious.

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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Looking at the dipshits attending this protest, we are almost certainly going to have them transmit COVID-19 to most of the South Island due to this. Barely any masks, closed in etc. Selfish fucking dipshits the lot of them.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300512259/recap-freedom-convoy-arrives-at-parliament-in-protest-of-covid19-vaccine-mandates

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Oh hey they actually managed to get across the strait then?

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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    Glad I'm not going into he office today. These protestors are fucking dicknuts.

    Like, I've been here long enough to see lots of protests. Gay Marriage. Abortion. Teachers, Nurses, Iwi Hikoi. The children's climate protests were massive.

    I've never seen protestors so utterly committed to being complete dicks as the Anti-vaxxers. They absolutely want to make as much impression as possible, either to convince themselves they're more numerous than they are, or just because they believe getting in everyone's faces is their inaliable right.


    My grandfather, who's 94 and lived in the central city for the last quarter century, has never been scared of protests since the Nazi marched the street of The Nederlands in the 30's and 40's.

    Guess which fucking protest gave him PTSD flashbacks. Go on, guess.

    Fucking Nazis.

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I hope you've been able to stay wfh, @Fishman

    Been watching the livestream from today.


    Wishing this was unreal

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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    Yeah, fortunately my one day in the office this week was supposed to be Monday, so I got to spend it at Mitre 10 picking up some long weekend DIY for the house.

    I'm going into the city tomorrow for a lunchtime football game, but hopefully most of the bullshit is over by then.

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I can see quite a lot more grass on the stream then I could when it started.

    I've seen maybe they get arrested so far?

    Including a completely naked young lady.

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    AntoshkaAntoshka Miauen Oil Change LazarusRegistered User regular
    I can see quite a lot more grass on the stream then I could when it started.

    I've seen maybe they get arrested so far?

    Including a completely naked young lady.

    Freedom from the oppressive fashion industry is potentially a position, though I'd honestly remind them about sunburn risk this time of year.

    n57PM0C.jpg
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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I will applaud the police though.

    By the time that they had her cuffed and standing, she was already wrapped in a covering.

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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited February 2022
    Walked past the single anti-vaccine protestor that seems to be around in my city. I couldn't help but laugh at how dumb his sign was and that he was sitting there all alone like a complete knob.

    Edit: The religious discrimination bill in Australia got essentially shelved today, after the government realised they couldn’t make it shitty enough to LGBTQIA students.

    Poor diddums.

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    BotznoyBotznoy Registered User regular
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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    Botznoy wrote: »

    I am not, as a general rule, a big fan of politicians*, but I really quite like Chippy at times.


    *: Obvious exception excluded.

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    Road BlockRoad Block Registered User regular
    edited February 2022
    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/scuttling-the-religion-package-shows-where-priorities-lied-all-along-20220210-p59vfh.html

    Not that there was any doubt but it turns out that yes you can apparently poison pill Liberal Government bills by simply making them slightly less awful. If they don't get to kick puppies then whats the point?

    Road Block on
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    He’s pissed a lot of people off with this too.

    Curious how it translates at the polls in a couple of months.

    There’s been spill talk (of course there has) about Dutton taking leadership which just… ugh.

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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Road Block wrote: »
    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/scuttling-the-religion-package-shows-where-priorities-lied-all-along-20220210-p59vfh.html

    Not that there was any doubt but it turns out that yes you can apparently poison pill Liberal Government bills by simply making them slightly less awful. If they don't get to kick puppies then whats the point?

    7rcfdooznsc5.jpeg

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    He’s pissed a lot of people off with this too.

    Curious how it translates at the polls in a couple of months.

    There’s been spill talk (of course there has) about Dutton taking leadership which just… ugh.

    Yeah, it's seemingly a consistency of the conservative. Even when the current guy is a fuckwad, there's almost certainly someone worse waiting in the wings to take the job.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Minimum wage is going up to 21.20 an hour from april first, which is good news.

    ...but i'd really like to see something done about the benefit, especially for those of us who are chronically ill, as currently we're on the equivalent of 7.50 an hour. Techincally more if you count accommodation supplement, but given that goes straight to lining landlord's pockets.

    And you know, if you want to tackle child poverty eterca, making sure our social saftey net is actually a net rather than a few bits of string and some strongly worded signs, that'd be fucking great.

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    TefTef Registered User regular
    oh dang, that's cool about minimum wage

    help a fellow forumer meet their mental health care needs because USA healthcare sucks!

    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better

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    plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    edited February 2022
    So, this takedown of Frydenberg in the AFR is fantastic:
    https://www.afr.com/rear-window/josh-frydenberg-sustains-full-body-gravel-rash-20220210-p59vhq
    But... it could be Murdoch* helping pave the way for Dutton: with Morrison theoretically stuffed, they'd want to kneecap the only other potential leader.
    But... Frydenberg is completely shit at his job, so this takedown is completely reasonable. Should have just been a weekly column for the last 6 years.

    *edit: oh they're not Murdoch so hey, maybe it's fine?

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    FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    I may have made an error of judgement.

    I went in to play football today, out at Queens Wharf. Lots of fresh air and breeze.

    But I forgot my water. So with 10 minutes to kill while I waited for my train, I pulled into New World Metro Railway Station. Now, it's not the closest supermarket to parliament (there's one on Molesworth), it's pretty close and more convenient if you're using public transport at all.

    I haven't seen so many people without masks in a public space indoors at all since... pre-Delta, I guess. Maybe a third of the store was just people from the protest. And they're all taking armloads of supplies back up to the camp. Honestly, let's be honest, it's really more like a land occupation than a hikoi at this point. And I suddenly just really didn't want to be there right then.

    Fortunately I'm just going straight home to shower anyway (see: football) and I'm using a brand new decent-fitting mask, but still just wish I could just go about my normal day getting a Cookie Time and a litre of Fresh Up without having to brush elbows with the national superspreader party.

    Ugh.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Tef wrote: »
    oh dang, that's cool about minimum wage

    It really is! It's just hard not to be frustrated and bitter as inflation for crazy, rent retcons and be told oh you can't hold a job without wrecking yourself? Fuck off from participating in society.

    Not that I'm bitter or anything

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