It's no secret who and what modern conservatives are. If you're still willing to work for them as a means to an end of gaining wealth or power, yeah, my sympathies are with the people your assistance hurts.
Does the same logic apply across the Civil Service?
Shouldn't members of career staff know better than to attend a party in a pandemic, and be insulated from repercussions if they are absent from getting assaulted with cake?
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GumpyThere is alwaysa greater powerRegistered Userregular
It's no secret who and what modern conservatives are. If you're still willing to work for them as a means to an end of gaining wealth or power, yeah, my sympathies are with the people your assistance hurts.
Does the same logic apply across the Civil Service?
Shouldn't members of career staff know better than to attend a party in a pandemic, and be insulated from repercussions if they are absent from getting assaulted with cake?
I'm not defending the people who got fines! Just teasing out:
If the proximity to No 10 is factoring into people's views of these Civil Servants (Aka, is a young diary manager who was assigned to No 10 more morally responsible for the decisions of the Government than someone more senior based across the road?)
If Civil Servants as a profession are considered political allies of the tories or neutral servants of the state
If Civil Servants are responsible for causing harm to the wider population
If the above things are true, what should be done to Civil Servants who don't resign their posts
So the thought springs off the fines, but isn't about them per se - it's been a while week within the Civil Service, so the view from outside is very relevant right now
It's no secret who and what modern conservatives are. If you're still willing to work for them as a means to an end of gaining wealth or power, yeah, my sympathies are with the people your assistance hurts.
Does the same logic apply across the Civil Service?
I think it kind of does, to an extent
Like, I'm job hunting at the moment and have specifically ruled out a couple of civil service jobs because I know that taking a neutral stance on policy implementation is not something I'm going to be comfortable with, especially in the current climate
I do think that I may have made different choices (in fact I did, I was a fast stream applicant) pre Brexit, so I have some sympathies with anyone that made these decisions at a time when we had governments that weren't as outright unhinged as this one
Edit: to develop the thought a little further, by now it's perfectly clear that this government is perfectly willing to throw the civil service, same even particular civil servants, under the bus for policy failures, so I think the "social contract" of civil service independence can no longer really be relied upon
At least it's the entire Civil Service, and not just the young diary managers, that are at the pointed end of this thought - which I guess gives some relief!
So what do we do with Civil Servants, if the view is that they are actively hurting the rest of the population?
I think it's less that civil servants in general are actively hurting the population, than at this time, in this place, the view that civil servants in some sense share in the culpability for the acts of this government isn't a totally unreasonable one
I don't even think this is a situation that has arisen because of the fault of the civil service, it's pretty much entirely because the government has blurred that line on purpose, so it falls to the individual to decide whether they're comfortable that they're still on the right side of it
Fwiw, and without getting into the specifics of where I work and what I do, this isn't a dilemma that I'm unfamiliar with
It's no secret who and what modern conservatives are. If you're still willing to work for them as a means to an end of gaining wealth or power, yeah, my sympathies are with the people your assistance hurts.
Does the same logic apply across the Civil Service?
I think it kind of does, to an extent
Like, I'm job hunting at the moment and have specifically ruled out a couple of civil service jobs because I know that taking a neutral stance on policy implementation is not something I'm going to be comfortable with, especially in the current climate
I do think that I may have made different choices (in fact I did, I was a fast stream applicant) pre Brexit, so I have some sympathies with anyone that made these decisions at a time when we had governments that weren't as outright unhinged as this one
Edit: to develop the thought a little further, by now it's perfectly clear that this government is perfectly willing to throw the civil service, same even particular civil servants, under the bus for policy failures, so I think the "social contract" of civil service independence can no longer really be relied upon
At least it's the entire Civil Service, and not just the young diary managers, that are at the pointed end of this thought - which I guess gives some relief!
So what do we do with Civil Servants, if the view is that they are actively hurting the rest of the population?
I think it's less that civil servants in general are actively hurting the population, than at this time, in this place, the view that civil servants in some sense share in the culpability for the acts of this government isn't a totally unreasonable one
I don't even think this is a situation that has arisen because of the fault of the civil service, it's pretty much entirely because the government has blurred that line on purpose, so it falls to the individual to decide whether they're comfortable that they're still on the right side of it
Fwiw, and without getting into the specifics of where I work and what I do, this isn't a dilemma that I'm unfamiliar with
Yea, it's a dilemma - and we've seen a lot of grump in the last week. I'm basically on the side that total politicisation of the state would make things worse, not better - and as it's pretty public knowledge where I am in the system, all I can really do is listen to folks views.
When I was job seeking on the Civil Service portal back in the day I knew I didn't want to work at DWP, basically because I didn't want to spend my day telling people that they weren't quite disabled enough to get any assistance and had they thought of bar work
At least at the Revenue I spent the first couple of years refunding people their PAYE overpayments, which was a good way to give the soul a bit of a karmic spit and polish
It's no secret who and what modern conservatives are. If you're still willing to work for them as a means to an end of gaining wealth or power, yeah, my sympathies are with the people your assistance hurts.
Does the same logic apply across the Civil Service?
If so, I'd like to know when my wealth will be arriving.
My friend’s wife is a civil servant; she got asked to help with some department regarding Brexit and effectively told them to “fuck off I’m not touching that mess”
Passport achieved. I hate it in its comparatively cheap feeling black ugliness for being totemic of our rejection of the EU. But needs must and it’s nice to be able to unclench in a manner I haven’t quite managed since entering this race between passport renewal and upcoming German wedding trip.
The mirror had another sex allegation article but I couldn't source it from somewhere else that wasn't the mirror but it involves spiking drinks sooo that's another one to keep an eye out for this week.
tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
Passport achieved. I hate it in its comparatively cheap feeling black ugliness for being totemic of our rejection of the EU. But needs must and it’s nice to be able to unclench in a manner I haven’t quite managed since entering this race between passport renewal and upcoming German wedding trip.
Did they just issue everyone new passports? Or did you have to spend money apply and apply for a new passport?
Passport achieved. I hate it in its comparatively cheap feeling black ugliness for being totemic of our rejection of the EU. But needs must and it’s nice to be able to unclench in a manner I haven’t quite managed since entering this race between passport renewal and upcoming German wedding trip.
Did they just issue everyone new passports? Or did you have to spend money apply and apply for a new passport?
Spend money and apply as normal, existing EU-branded ones are still valid until they expire so they'll be around for years yet in ever more dwindling numbers; but you don't get the EU benefits of it, they work just like the stupid shitty new ones.
The mirror had another sex allegation article but I couldn't source it from somewhere else that wasn't the mirror but it involves spiking drinks sooo that's another one to keep an eye out for this week.
OK, the tweet itself is one thing, but then there’s the whole aspect of going ”yes, this is a thing I feel like tweeting out to the whole internet right now”.
The mirror had another sex allegation article but I couldn't source it from somewhere else that wasn't the mirror but it involves spiking drinks sooo that's another one to keep an eye out for this week.
OK, the tweet itself is one thing, but then there’s the whole aspect of going ”yes, this is a thing I feel like tweeting out to the whole internet right now”.
The current zeitgeist seems to be "if something would be catastrophically stupid, do it any way". At least in this case it kind of works out?
The US had "but her emails" and we've managed to top that with "buttery females"
I want to know who that guy beat for the candidacy
Probably someone much the same. Local candidates are swivel eyed lunatics all the way down. It takes a special kind of crazy to be attracted to low level politics.
Tory DWP chief Therese Coffey will announce sweeping laws to mass-request bank account data and slap people with fines even if they're not convicted of a crime. But work on the law won't start for at least a year
...
DWP staff will be given the power to arrest Brits in a hardline Universal Credit crackdown.
Two million claimants will have their cases dredged up and face fines for fraud under sweeping laws - even if they’re not convicted of a crime.
Department for Work and Pensions officers will be allowed to mass-request bank data more easily to spot-check if people are cheating the Jobcentre.
DWP staff will then make arrests, execute warrants, conduct searches and seize evidence themselves instead of leaving the work to police.
Even if a case does not make it to court, they will then get power to dish out civil fines - like those issued by HMRC.
But Tory ministers will be accused of chasing headlines as there’s no timetable for a new law and it's unlikely to start work for at least a year.
Many of the new powers need an Act of Parliament - but it’s thought this would only be introduced from May 2023 at the earliest.
Tory DWP chief Therese Coffey will announce sweeping laws to mass-request bank account data and slap people with fines even if they're not convicted of a crime. But work on the law won't start for at least a year
...
DWP staff will be given the power to arrest Brits in a hardline Universal Credit crackdown.
Two million claimants will have their cases dredged up and face fines for fraud under sweeping laws - even if they’re not convicted of a crime.
Department for Work and Pensions officers will be allowed to mass-request bank data more easily to spot-check if people are cheating the Jobcentre.
DWP staff will then make arrests, execute warrants, conduct searches and seize evidence themselves instead of leaving the work to police.
Even if a case does not make it to court, they will then get power to dish out civil fines - like those issued by HMRC.
But Tory ministers will be accused of chasing headlines as there’s no timetable for a new law and it's unlikely to start work for at least a year.
Many of the new powers need an Act of Parliament - but it’s thought this would only be introduced from May 2023 at the earliest.
Tory DWP chief Therese Coffey will announce sweeping laws to mass-request bank account data and slap people with fines even if they're not convicted of a crime. But work on the law won't start for at least a year
...
DWP staff will be given the power to arrest Brits in a hardline Universal Credit crackdown.
Two million claimants will have their cases dredged up and face fines for fraud under sweeping laws - even if they’re not convicted of a crime.
Department for Work and Pensions officers will be allowed to mass-request bank data more easily to spot-check if people are cheating the Jobcentre.
DWP staff will then make arrests, execute warrants, conduct searches and seize evidence themselves instead of leaving the work to police.
Even if a case does not make it to court, they will then get power to dish out civil fines - like those issued by HMRC.
But Tory ministers will be accused of chasing headlines as there’s no timetable for a new law and it's unlikely to start work for at least a year.
Many of the new powers need an Act of Parliament - but it’s thought this would only be introduced from May 2023 at the earliest.
The cruelty really is the point. Massive sweeping changes requiring tons more money to catch a miniscule amount of people "cheating the system" instead of using the funding to actually do something positive and help the people trapped in the system.
More headlines to distract from the Gray report
The one about the fucking space hairdresser and the cowboy. He's got a tinfoil pal and a pedal bin
+22
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Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
On the one hand, holy shit, one of them actually faced consequences.
On the other hand, 18 months? Really? And we know what that translates to...
The judge said Khan should serve 18 months, “half on custody, released on license for remainder of the term, subject to recall should you commit a further offence”.
I assume this was timed for the Sue Gray report so it'll be too late for her to edit it, so if it's a whitewash it'll be 100% obvious?
I wonder if someone with access to the contents of the report (unsympathetic to BJ) noticed these photos aren't in it so got them to ITV in order to highlight the shenanigans at play..?
On the one hand, holy shit, one of them actually faced consequences.
On the other hand, 18 months? Really? And we know what that translates to...
The judge said Khan should serve 18 months, “half on custody, released on license for remainder of the term, subject to recall should you commit a further offence”.
Naturally. Blah.
The thinking seems to be that because this all came out while he was MP, he thus lost his job and will forever be known for this, that this is part of his punishment as opposed to if he’d been found guilty back in the day, not so many would know about his behaviour.
. Which is some real mental gymnastics that should just fuck off. I don’t see how you can read / listen to the victim statement and think 9 months in prison is enough.
I believe Johnson wasn't fined for this event. Unsure if the police actually knew about this one or just didn't bother fining him.
Good timing on the release of the pictures though, keeping this whole thing in the public eye.
It should be noted that others at this event received FPNs so some are asking the police their reasoning for this; the answer is they’re cowards and are shit at their jobs because they’ve had to be dragged to do what should have been done at great expense.
I started to get in an argument with someone at work because he was starting to parrot the line “what a waste of money this investigation was” as if it should have not taken place. I had to remind him that if Boris et al had not had the parties or lied about the parties then the investigation wouldn’t have cost so much.
And before he then prattled on about drinks after work (because he was going to), I said that Tories tried to deflect by saying my wife, a teacher who gets spat on, shouted abuse, kicked, head butted and sexually assaulted by the kids she teaches, never had a drink after work.
Dan Bloom is political editor for the Mirror, Grant Shapps is a lying shit, PM is a lying shit
The idea that Johnson was mourning his mum in a gathering that would have still been illegal even if she had actually been dead just shows they've given up any pretence they had
It's Putin levels of "say whatever, because everybody's already made up their minds and it shows the non-believers how futile demanding the truth is"
Posts
Shouldn't members of career staff know better than to attend a party in a pandemic, and be insulated from repercussions if they are absent from getting assaulted with cake?
I'm not defending the people who got fines! Just teasing out:
So the thought springs off the fines, but isn't about them per se - it's been a while week within the Civil Service, so the view from outside is very relevant right now
I think it's less that civil servants in general are actively hurting the population, than at this time, in this place, the view that civil servants in some sense share in the culpability for the acts of this government isn't a totally unreasonable one
I don't even think this is a situation that has arisen because of the fault of the civil service, it's pretty much entirely because the government has blurred that line on purpose, so it falls to the individual to decide whether they're comfortable that they're still on the right side of it
Fwiw, and without getting into the specifics of where I work and what I do, this isn't a dilemma that I'm unfamiliar with
I know there's a culture of x, y and z and okay whatever but implementing austerity killed people, I think the civil service is implicated in that
Yea, it's a dilemma - and we've seen a lot of grump in the last week. I'm basically on the side that total politicisation of the state would make things worse, not better - and as it's pretty public knowledge where I am in the system, all I can really do is listen to folks views.
I'm in a non-ministerial Civil Service department, may I please be spared the guillotine?
If it helps, I raised charges to the tune of a couple mil on some big businesses this week
That's not fair - non ministerial work for ministerial departments!
At least at the Revenue I spent the first couple of years refunding people their PAYE overpayments, which was a good way to give the soul a bit of a karmic spit and polish
If so, I'd like to know when my wealth will be arriving.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/22/tweet-on-tory-local-election-candidates-account-says-teenage-girls-smell-buttery-and-creamy
The mirror had another sex allegation article but I couldn't source it from somewhere else that wasn't the mirror but it involves spiking drinks sooo that's another one to keep an eye out for this week.
Spend money and apply as normal, existing EU-branded ones are still valid until they expire so they'll be around for years yet in ever more dwindling numbers; but you don't get the EU benefits of it, they work just like the stupid shitty new ones.
Steam | XBL
OK, the tweet itself is one thing, but then there’s the whole aspect of going ”yes, this is a thing I feel like tweeting out to the whole internet right now”.
Steam | XBL
I’m also confused by the way he thinks 28 year old women are still girls…
Sexism
I want to know who that guy beat for the candidacy
The current zeitgeist seems to be "if something would be catastrophically stupid, do it any way". At least in this case it kind of works out?
Probably someone much the same. Local candidates are swivel eyed lunatics all the way down. It takes a special kind of crazy to be attracted to low level politics.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
So, mission accomplished?
WoW
Dear Satan.....
Oh god can it please not? I feel slightly violated every time my eyes pass over those words and the implications of the context wash over my brain.
I can only take so many showers in a day.
DWP staff get power to arrest Brits in hardline Universal Credit fraud crackdown
Steam | XBL
By Order of the Sherrif of Nottingham...
The cruelty really is the point. Massive sweeping changes requiring tons more money to catch a miniscule amount of people "cheating the system" instead of using the funding to actually do something positive and help the people trapped in the system.
More headlines to distract from the Gray report
It just makes me think of this
I am jealous, out of the two of us you have the better deal.
On the one hand, holy shit, one of them actually faced consequences.
On the other hand, 18 months? Really? And we know what that translates to...
Naturally. Blah.
Steam | XBL
Paul is a news editor for ITV.
I believe Johnson wasn't fined for this event. Unsure if the police actually knew about this one or just didn't bother fining him.
Good timing on the release of the pictures though, keeping this whole thing in the public eye.
I wonder if someone with access to the contents of the report (unsympathetic to BJ) noticed these photos aren't in it so got them to ITV in order to highlight the shenanigans at play..?
The thinking seems to be that because this all came out while he was MP, he thus lost his job and will forever be known for this, that this is part of his punishment as opposed to if he’d been found guilty back in the day, not so many would know about his behaviour.
. Which is some real mental gymnastics that should just fuck off. I don’t see how you can read / listen to the victim statement and think 9 months in prison is enough.
It should be noted that others at this event received FPNs so some are asking the police their reasoning for this; the answer is they’re cowards and are shit at their jobs because they’ve had to be dragged to do what should have been done at great expense.
I started to get in an argument with someone at work because he was starting to parrot the line “what a waste of money this investigation was” as if it should have not taken place. I had to remind him that if Boris et al had not had the parties or lied about the parties then the investigation wouldn’t have cost so much.
And before he then prattled on about drinks after work (because he was going to), I said that Tories tried to deflect by saying my wife, a teacher who gets spat on, shouted abuse, kicked, head butted and sexually assaulted by the kids she teaches, never had a drink after work.
Dan Bloom is political editor for the Mirror, Grant Shapps is a lying shit, PM is a lying shit
The idea that Johnson was mourning his mum in a gathering that would have still been illegal even if she had actually been dead just shows they've given up any pretence they had
It's Putin levels of "say whatever, because everybody's already made up their minds and it shows the non-believers how futile demanding the truth is"