The bad part about this leak is that they were also mentioned in other leaks about Lightfall and Season 18, proving them right. So there's big spoilers out there, look out.
I tried to avoid them as much as I could when I was looking up the stuff I posted.
I hope, if the people wanking about "we need to lose more, everything should be destroyed and dark and grim and" end up being right, that one of the things destroyed is "their vault".
Permanently. Not "lose access", just all your shit is gone. Enjoy your depression.
I hope, if the people wanking about "we need to lose more, everything should be destroyed and dark and grim and" end up being right, that one of the things destroyed is "their vault".
Permanently. Not "lose access", just all your shit is gone. Enjoy your depression.
"B-but Forsaken wasn't a loss because we killed Uldren and Riven! It needs to be darker"
Yeah, and Cayde-6 is dead, Riven is probably still alive in some way or could be because Mara has her heart, and the Dreaming City is completely fucked forever because of the curse!
People have found some upcoming armor from an unlikely source, and it's insane and I love it. We'll probably find out more about it from the Showcase on Tuesday, but I gotta talk about this now. WARNING: LEAKED UPCOMING CONTENT
🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
Datamining from one of the leading dataminers has shown 3 new armor sets for Destiny:
Holy shit we're getting a Fortnite crossover in Destiny lmaooooooooo
These armor sets are all based on Fortnite skins:
Warlock is Drift
Titan is Black Knight
Hunter is Omega
Never thought I'd see a Fortnite collab go the OTHER direction, from Fortnite into something else
I assume we're also getting Destiny skins in FN as well, maybe like Cayde-6 or Zavala, maybe a Sparrow glider or Arcadia ship glider
I'm guessing Destiny is gonna be on the Epic Store soon then.
"Whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a Battle Royale with Goku, Ariana Grande, John Wick, and Deadpool on Tilted Towers. So let's get to taking their Victory Crowns, one by one."
Having so far avoided spoilers in general for previous leaks, and lacking context of general stuff, hell yes we win too much. VIP 2014 should have died after Ghaul kicked you into free fall. Some sort of significantly tangible negative should have come post Stasis and Witch Queen.
This game isn't gonna be grimdark, and I am happy about that, but I hope Bungie doesn't name a campaign Lightfall and then fail to impart consequences after years of build up.
- Why would I want to play a game where my character is permanently negatively affected by a plot arc?
- Why would I want to buy an expansion where the central thesis is "ha ha you lose!"
- Why would I in fact want to spend an expansion losing?
(Calling it now, someone's going to say "you just don't like GOOD STORYTELLING!" to which I respond "what makes you think "depressing" means "good"?")
- Why would I want to play a game where my character is permanently negatively affected by a plot arc?
- Why would I want to buy an expansion where the central thesis is "ha ha you lose!"
- Why would I in fact want to spend an expansion losing?
(Calling it now, someone's going to say "you just don't like GOOD STORYTELLING!" to which I respond "what makes you think "depressing" means "good"?")
All your statements are predicated on the assumption that good means not depressing.
Which, good job, excellent rhetorical skill to make your argument an implicit assumption of how you frame the questions but none of that makes it true.
I'm also like... They're just gonna pull a D2 launch/red war thing where the Traveller is taken/killed/whatever but somehow we can still use the Light
Like the stakes have to be there to make the story compelling, otherwise if Lightfall isn't some dramatic development by the darkness arriving then it's not gonna really seem all that different from the factions we've been fighting for years now
- Why would I want to play a game where my character is permanently negatively affected by a plot arc?
- Why would I want to buy an expansion where the central thesis is "ha ha you lose!"
- Why would I in fact want to spend an expansion losing?
(Calling it now, someone's going to say "you just don't like GOOD STORYTELLING!" to which I respond "what makes you think "depressing" means "good"?")
All your statements are predicated on the assumption that good means not depressing.
Which, good job, excellent rhetorical skill to make your argument an implicit assumption of how you frame the questions but none of that makes it true.
Nope. It's predicated on a rejection of the assumption that "dark = good". Good storytelling can come in all flavors, tragedy, comedy, horror... "Good" does not have to mean "doom", "tension" doesn't have to come from "killing your favorite character", and "horror" doesn't need to involve a chainsaw or a hockey mask or even blood.
To put it in an ancient context, "I do not like tragedies". They are simply one single genre of storytelling, and my dislike for same doesn't say anything about my appreciation for comedies or other dramatic forms.
Edit: It could also be put as many people have seemingly decided
this == dark
this == good
therefore
dark == good
and I fundamentally disagree with the improper attempt to apply transitivity in this manner.
It makes me think of losing the light at the start of base game d2. That was brutal as a storytelling device. But then like 2 missions later we’re the chosen one only guardian with the light back and it’s just generic action plot to the end. Like you could have done so much with that story of trying to recover the light beyond “go back to the shards where you got your powers in d1, which could be easily replicated by all the other guardians but aren’t for reasons” and like all I want is some narrative follow through on impactful things.
- Why would I want to play a game where my character is permanently negatively affected by a plot arc?
- Why would I want to buy an expansion where the central thesis is "ha ha you lose!"
- Why would I in fact want to spend an expansion losing?
(Calling it now, someone's going to say "you just don't like GOOD STORYTELLING!" to which I respond "what makes you think "depressing" means "good"?")
This is sincerely one of the most alien and confused posts I've ever seen (that was made in good faith and not some sort of troll or joke). Destiny is a world where humanity is on the brink, and it has always been premised on the threats posed against it being BEYOND strong and dangerous. It is impossible to maintain that level of narrative threat if the heroes of the story win every time, without setback or complication. And yet, there's been essentially two serious setbacks in like 20 storylines (losing Light and Cayde dying). And one of those setbacks is completely reversed by the end of its story, with very little followup on that. It is long past due. There are also NUMEROUS Chekov's guns setup promising some kind of failure/disaster/impending peril. It would be completely incompetent writing to NOT have any of these things occur.
To try to see where you're coming from, they COULD alter the tone in such a mean spirited and dark way that it would no longer feel like the same story. Destiny has not been written with the correct tone for a Red Wedding style event, it's been far too jokey and "fun adventure time" to suddenly throw a bus full of orphans off a cliff where they cause a chain reaction that detonates the puppy factory. However, I think the bigger risk by far is if Bungie doesn't try at all and the LIGHTFALL(TM) storyline is more like the "Light stubs its toe on a dresser" storyline in the end. Imo, they fumbled the first appearance of Darkness powers in that way.
I think a big loss would ironically make the game much MORE fun and exciting, at least from a story sense. What if our familiar allies completely disappear and you have to establish a new crew of much less familiar and less trusted comrades? What if they ditched the City and created a new hub that you build up over storylines, like the Farm but with some brainpower and long-term thinking applied to it. It would be a good opportunity to dig into all the Bad End stories that have been floating in the air and have our character actively use those as roadmaps of things to avoid or things to try, rather than just the "Cool story, bro" they've been treated as so far. I don't actually think the story would be depressing in the slightest, if written correctly, it should be like the part of Predator where Arnold starts setting traps and hiding in the mud (aka, the best part).
- Why would I want to play a game where my character is permanently negatively affected by a plot arc?
- Why would I want to buy an expansion where the central thesis is "ha ha you lose!"
- Why would I in fact want to spend an expansion losing?
(Calling it now, someone's going to say "you just don't like GOOD STORYTELLING!" to which I respond "what makes you think "depressing" means "good"?")
All your statements are predicated on the assumption that good means not depressing.
Which, good job, excellent rhetorical skill to make your argument an implicit assumption of how you frame the questions but none of that makes it true.
Nope. It's predicated on a rejection of the assumption that "dark = good".
To put it in an ancient context, "I do not like tragedies". They are simply one single genre of storytelling, and my dislike for same doesn't say anything about my appreciation for comedies or other dramatic forms.
Edit: It could also be put as many people have seemingly decided
this == dark
this == good
therefore
dark == good
and I fundamentally disagree with the improper attempt to apply transitivity in this manner.
Uhuh. You are still doing it.
You actually added the Cavuto in there! We can do a tour of all the shitty things you say when you know your statement isn't true. "Many people have seemingly decided", yeah, and none of them are posting in this thread.
We can snipe back and forth and get nowhere, so let me put out a statement. Tell me if you disagree/agree.
I don’t think we’ll lose in the end of light fall,I think it’ll be more like d2 where we lose at the start and win in the end
Final shape wasn’t in the original plans. They sort of admitted they needed it to properly send off destiny 2.
The way I anyway imagined it is lightfall ends the dark vs light story. Final shape is a dlc that sets destiny 2 up to continue with minimal support going forward. It’ll set up systems and engagement loops that don’t require much from the devs so we can technically continue playing but ultimately ending d2 as a live service game
Maybe more procedurally generated stuff, more faction, pvp focused stuff. Basically make d2 more of a sandbox for player driven engagement.
Destiny has the same problem with raising the stakes as it does with villains: it's need to mostly wrap up the story by the end of the campaign. Even as they've improved the ongoing narrative, with each season continuing the story in some way, the campaigns are all still structured as self-contained events. The Bad Thing shows up and by the end we kill it. But that's over in like the first week of the year and then everything just keeps going. It robs these crises of any sense of impact or weight.
Even in stories that aren't tragedies, major setbacks are a thing. Even in overtly heroic narratives, our heroes still suffer loss and tragedy. That's the things they are supposed to overcome after all.
- Why would I want to play a game where my character is permanently negatively affected by a plot arc?
- Why would I want to buy an expansion where the central thesis is "ha ha you lose!"
- Why would I in fact want to spend an expansion losing?
(Calling it now, someone's going to say "you just don't like GOOD STORYTELLING!" to which I respond "what makes you think "depressing" means "good"?")
All your statements are predicated on the assumption that good means not depressing.
Which, good job, excellent rhetorical skill to make your argument an implicit assumption of how you frame the questions but none of that makes it true.
Nope. It's predicated on a rejection of the assumption that "dark = good".
To put it in an ancient context, "I do not like tragedies". They are simply one single genre of storytelling, and my dislike for same doesn't say anything about my appreciation for comedies or other dramatic forms.
Edit: It could also be put as many people have seemingly decided
this == dark
this == good
therefore
dark == good
and I fundamentally disagree with the improper attempt to apply transitivity in this manner.
Uhuh. You are still doing it.
You actually added the Cavuto in there! We can do a tour of all the shitty things you say when you know your statement isn't true. "Many people have seemingly decided", yeah, and none of them are posting in this thread.
We can snipe back and forth and get nowhere, so let me put out a statement. Tell me if you disagree/agree.
"Depressing stories can not be good stories."
So basically, your assertion is that when I say "dark does not mean good", I actually mean "good means not dark"? Those two sentences are not the same thing.
Of course depressing can be good. Being depressing does not mean it is good. Moreover, not being depressing does not mean it is not good.
As for the other thing, just go read some discussion of the last Thor, or Ragnarok. "Too many jokes to take it seriously" comes up a woeful amount. Same with Destiny, just go read people talking about the plot/possible plot directions; "we should lose and everything should turn to shit" is ubiquitous. It's like that bit of the 70s where everything in the movies had to be as depressing as possible, just expanded to all other media.
Losing WILL turn things to shit. It's non-negotiable. The heroes are guarding the Last City on Earth, containing now much of the holdout of three different civilizations. If the battle to defend that city is lost... what happens to those people? You brought up Thor... the Asgardian civilization is pretty much how Destiny will go if the Guardians lose.
Wouldn't be the first game I quit playing 'cause they cocked up a perfectly good setting and set of mechanics in the service of making things more unpleasant, that's for sure.
Destiny is fundamentally a heroic game. They set that tone at the beginning. Guardians overcome awful odds to salvage and preserve humanity, to be a candle in a dark universe.
It has gotten less oppressive as the series moves forward (good/bad debatable), but it is a series about heroes on the brink against enemies that include an enemy religiously empowered through murder. Recent seasons dealt with trauma, the dark ages, the failure of faith, etc. Like that Saladin story, or Mithrax telling Saint his legend... that shit sets alternate tones, but still within a world of Destiny.
That said, it is intentionally colorful. It (was) intentionally Light v Dark. It is intentionally a T rather than M, not filled with blood or swearing. We are not meant to doubt our Guardian (even if we doubt, say, Shayura, Mara, Savathun).
There will be no Red Wedding. There will be no Oedipus putting out his eyes.There will be no The Last of Us anything. It is still fundamentally a Heroic story, not a Tragic one. But heroes need villains and stakes, and it needs drama or it feels cartoonish, which is not the tone.
I have my doubts that Bungie has the temerity to actually nuke the Tower, but we'll see.
Even if we lose the city, though, I bet at least a mission would be dedicated to us fending off Darkness long enough to make sure that the majority of the city's population is able to evacuate, Thor Ragnarok style. Even then, though, at least one significant character would likely go missing/KIA. Like, a nutpunch would be Crow and Amanda making up from the fallout of Season of the Haunted just before one of them is presumed lost and removed from the story for a while.
But even if that happened, I would assume that it would happen really early in the expansion story, and that the majority of it would be about finding a way to kick the Witness to the curb. But they already did that story with the release of Destiny 2.
Personally I would love to go to Torobatl liberate the world from Xivu Arath - a character that almost certainly would have some part to play in the fall of the Witness, as the only Hive 'god' left standing.
For me Destiny's story is always going to have a weird dual tone problem because on the one hand the narrative in the world is bleak as hell, there's literally one city on planet Earth with almost all of the humans in it and cosmic forces that you could interpret as actual Dark Gods are constantly trying to wipe it out. On the other hand we the individual players are immortal engines of extreme destruction and the power fantasy that we experience in game is rich and satisfying and also we win every single fight that we end up in. If you read all of the lore then you get a sense of the larger consequences of what we're doing but if you don't (and you don't have to, it isn't presented obviously or required for any reason) then it'd be pretty easy to see Destiny as a kind of futuristic bowling alley where a bunch of cool aliens get lined up and we get a bunch of cool guns and abilities to knock them down.
Future storylines might get "darker" but I very much doubt that our in-game experience is going to change very much and I completely assume it'll stay fun as hell, and that's what I care about at the end of the day because for me Destiny is a chill way to unwind at the end of the day. I don't take it super seriously because it doesn't take itself super seriously and that's ok with me.
I have my doubts that Bungie has the temerity to actually nuke the Tower, but we'll see.
Even if we lose the city, though, I bet at least a mission would be dedicated to us fending off Darkness long enough to make sure that the majority of the city's population is able to evacuate, Thor Ragnarok style. Even then, though, at least one significant character would likely go missing/KIA. Like, a nutpunch would be Crow and Amanda making up from the fallout of Season of the Haunted just before one of them is presumed lost and removed from the story for a while.
But even if that happened, I would assume that it would happen really early in the expansion story, and that the majority of it would be about finding a way to kick the Witness to the curb. But they already did that story with the release of Destiny 2.
Personally I would love to go to Torobatl liberate the world from Xivu Arath - a character that almost certainly would have some part to play in the fall of the Witness, as the only Hive 'god' left standing.
I figure we’ll evac the City as the Traveller is pulled apart by the Witness’ fleet. Lightbearer Hive, Eliksni, Cabal and Humanity forming a rag tag fleet looking for a new home.
I can definitely understand frustration with the grim and miserable=good writing crowd. I guess fundamentally positive stories just don't have the cachet of unrelenting misery and self-inflicted tragedy. At best, you're allowed to have a hopeful ending as a treat after your cynicism bonanza.
Not that I don't appreciate a good loss to set up a win, or think unrelentingly negative stories like that which get praised are universally undeserving, just, it's exhausting when the only respectable fiction, the stuff everyone with an opinion wants to turn every other piece of fiction into, is the sort of thing you have zero interest in as a consumer (or creator).
The story doesn't need to be grim and dark, it just needs to have consequences that matter.
D1 had a good narrative throughline. We defeat Crota, but that angers Oryx. We defeat Oryx, but we lose the Reef leadership and we have to deal with a taken war afterwards. Some of those threads lead us into D2's Red War, where we lose the tower, our weapons and our light, but gain it back in different ways. Each story is a victory, but with a consequence.
Then we get to Forsaken, where the lasting impact is that Cayde-6 dies and the Dreaming City is cursed. Both of those seem like major consequences.
But hunters have been without a Vanguard leader for years, and the Dreaming City is still cursed. The narrative over the last couple years never bothered to resolve any of this, retroactively making these consequences feel less significant. Like having only 2/3 of the Vanguard isn't such a big deal at all.
Then all the big expansions since Forsaken wrap themselves up too neatly. Shadowkeep you find the creepy pyramid and just leave it alone for a year. Beyond Light, the fallen discover the darkness but you defeat this new threat as quickly as it appears with no lasting impact. With Witch Queen, Savathun's here, she has the light, and there are hive lightbearers. But you defeat her in the final fight and that's that. We're still here waiting on the pyramid fleet shown from D2 vanilla to finally attack rather than float in space menacingly.
A heroic narrative is not at odds with a darker tone. Neither is the player experience of being functionally demigods stomping in the faces of most of our enemies. Bungie just tends, especially with their campaigns, to resolve things in ways that deflate any sense of threat or drama. The only time they've really not done that is when they've just left stuff completely open ended without any resolution. It's why almost all the Big Bads we've run into end up feeling anemic. It also doesn't help that none of these things tend to have any lasting impact on anything else. Eramis' big threat went nowhere, as an easy example.
I have my doubts that Bungie has the temerity to actually nuke the Tower, but we'll see.
Even if we lose the city, though, I bet at least a mission would be dedicated to us fending off Darkness long enough to make sure that the majority of the city's population is able to evacuate, Thor Ragnarok style. Even then, though, at least one significant character would likely go missing/KIA. Like, a nutpunch would be Crow and Amanda making up from the fallout of Season of the Haunted just before one of them is presumed lost and removed from the story for a while.
But even if that happened, I would assume that it would happen really early in the expansion story, and that the majority of it would be about finding a way to kick the Witness to the curb. But they already did that story with the release of Destiny 2.
Personally I would love to go to Torobatl liberate the world from Xivu Arath - a character that almost certainly would have some part to play in the fall of the Witness, as the only Hive 'god' left standing.
I figure we’ll evac the City as the Traveller is pulled apart by the Witness’ fleet. Lightbearer Hive, Eliksni, Cabal and Humanity forming a rag tag fleet looking for a new home.
There's a Grimoire Card from D1 based on that idea though it's the Factions being represented in the ships rather then aliens.
I have my doubts that Bungie has the temerity to actually nuke the Tower, but we'll see.
Even if we lose the city, though, I bet at least a mission would be dedicated to us fending off Darkness long enough to make sure that the majority of the city's population is able to evacuate, Thor Ragnarok style. Even then, though, at least one significant character would likely go missing/KIA. Like, a nutpunch would be Crow and Amanda making up from the fallout of Season of the Haunted just before one of them is presumed lost and removed from the story for a while.
But even if that happened, I would assume that it would happen really early in the expansion story, and that the majority of it would be about finding a way to kick the Witness to the curb. But they already did that story with the release of Destiny 2.
Personally I would love to go to Torobatl liberate the world from Xivu Arath - a character that almost certainly would have some part to play in the fall of the Witness, as the only Hive 'god' left standing.
I figure we’ll evac the City as the Traveller is pulled apart by the Witness’ fleet. Lightbearer Hive, Eliksni, Cabal and Humanity forming a rag tag fleet looking for a new home.
There's a Grimoire Card from D1 based on that idea though it's the Factions being represented in the ships rather then aliens.
I’ll be happy if they name the Vanguard ship Galactica.
I don't know where you go after beating the Witness, though. Just leave the Light and Dark stuff behind, while keeping the powers somehow?
A major point of the whole 'giving Guardians access to the Darkness' plot is that it IS possible to use it as just another power. There were plenty of Lightbearers in the Dark Age that used Solar, Void and Arc for evil means. Hell, the Trials-gear story is all about a Guardian taking the 'Dark = bad' mantra to the worst level and killing anyone they thought had been near Stasis. It's what makes the Witch Queen story work so well thematically after Beyond Light's.
Also man I wish the Titan Stasis melee was less stinky. Or that you had more than one choice.
Void bonk? Suppresses target and generates overshield on kill, or throw a shield from range that generates overshield on hit. Fire bonk? Scorch the target and deal damage in a cone behind them and also explode the target with Ignite on kill, or have a mini ranged bonk that can be used to spam out charged melee effects to your heart's content. Lightning bonk? Blind the target and an AoE around them or an even bigger AoE if you're amped (which you probably will be), or a cool superhero dive bonk that does an AoE, or a new One-Punch Man charged-charged melee that does the big bonk.
Stasis melee is you lunge a little farther with frustrating tracking that gets consumed on whiff and idk, knocks targets back a little further than other melees I guess? It would be nice if there was an interaction where, like, hitting a target that's frozen with Shiver Strike causes an extra-large shatter effect that, when combined with Whisper of Fissures, is right up there with the current ignite Solar Fulmination+Ember of Eruption for radius.
- Why would I want to play a game where my character is permanently negatively affected by a plot arc?
- Why would I want to buy an expansion where the central thesis is "ha ha you lose!"
- Why would I in fact want to spend an expansion losing?
(Calling it now, someone's going to say "you just don't like GOOD STORYTELLING!" to which I respond "what makes you think "depressing" means "good"?")
All your statements are predicated on the assumption that good means not depressing.
Which, good job, excellent rhetorical skill to make your argument an implicit assumption of how you frame the questions but none of that makes it true.
Nope. It's predicated on a rejection of the assumption that "dark = good".
To put it in an ancient context, "I do not like tragedies". They are simply one single genre of storytelling, and my dislike for same doesn't say anything about my appreciation for comedies or other dramatic forms.
Edit: It could also be put as many people have seemingly decided
this == dark
this == good
therefore
dark == good
and I fundamentally disagree with the improper attempt to apply transitivity in this manner.
Uhuh. You are still doing it.
You actually added the Cavuto in there! We can do a tour of all the shitty things you say when you know your statement isn't true. "Many people have seemingly decided", yeah, and none of them are posting in this thread.
We can snipe back and forth and get nowhere, so let me put out a statement. Tell me if you disagree/agree.
"Depressing stories can not be good stories."
The way I look at is this:
Would Infinity War be a 'good story' without Endgame? Yes, assuredly. Without question. It's a great story, and I'll fight anyone who disagrees. You might not enjoy that genre or the way it ends, but the story itself is pretty amazing, with complex characters that deliver more than one note, a plot that moves along quickly without beating you over the head, and handful of really deep moral choices that need to be made along the way.
Would Infinity War be a good movie without Endgame? Eh... that's debatable. Many people (myself included) seek out entertainment as an escape from the Badness of the Real World. I mean, I live in a place that's pretty ideal (for me) and shit's still pretty busted. I'm not really going to pay money to be depressed. All I need to do for that experience is turn on the news....
I don't know where you go after beating the Witness, though. Just leave the Light and Dark stuff behind, while keeping the powers somehow?
Honestly, I’d love some little stories. Exploring the ruins of old Earth and what kind of weird stuff has cropped up in the wastes. Seeing what kind of new civilization is built with all of our new allies over time.
So tired of apocalypses. I’m ready for a actual post.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
I don't know where you go after beating the Witness, though. Just leave the Light and Dark stuff behind, while keeping the powers somehow?
Vex, who are AI from another dimension might be the answer.
But really the answer is time loops. they could throw us anywhere in the collapse and its not like anyone is writing enough down to remember we time traveled and did stuff in the past.
Every couple of months I forget what this The Corrupted quest in my log is and I go through it and at the end spend half an hour getting booped off the platform by the end boss, get frustrated, exit, and forget.
Posts
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
Fixed for me
That shit is hot
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
I tried to avoid them as much as I could when I was looking up the stuff I posted.
Permanently. Not "lose access", just all your shit is gone. Enjoy your depression.
"B-but Forsaken wasn't a loss because we killed Uldren and Riven! It needs to be darker"
Yeah, and Cayde-6 is dead, Riven is probably still alive in some way or could be because Mara has her heart, and the Dreaming City is completely fucked forever because of the curse!
This game isn't gonna be grimdark, and I am happy about that, but I hope Bungie doesn't name a campaign Lightfall and then fail to impart consequences after years of build up.
- Why would I want to buy an expansion where the central thesis is "ha ha you lose!"
- Why would I in fact want to spend an expansion losing?
(Calling it now, someone's going to say "you just don't like GOOD STORYTELLING!" to which I respond "what makes you think "depressing" means "good"?")
All your statements are predicated on the assumption that good means not depressing.
Which, good job, excellent rhetorical skill to make your argument an implicit assumption of how you frame the questions but none of that makes it true.
Like the stakes have to be there to make the story compelling, otherwise if Lightfall isn't some dramatic development by the darkness arriving then it's not gonna really seem all that different from the factions we've been fighting for years now
Nope. It's predicated on a rejection of the assumption that "dark = good". Good storytelling can come in all flavors, tragedy, comedy, horror... "Good" does not have to mean "doom", "tension" doesn't have to come from "killing your favorite character", and "horror" doesn't need to involve a chainsaw or a hockey mask or even blood.
To put it in an ancient context, "I do not like tragedies". They are simply one single genre of storytelling, and my dislike for same doesn't say anything about my appreciation for comedies or other dramatic forms.
Edit: It could also be put as many people have seemingly decided
and I fundamentally disagree with the improper attempt to apply transitivity in this manner.
This is sincerely one of the most alien and confused posts I've ever seen (that was made in good faith and not some sort of troll or joke). Destiny is a world where humanity is on the brink, and it has always been premised on the threats posed against it being BEYOND strong and dangerous. It is impossible to maintain that level of narrative threat if the heroes of the story win every time, without setback or complication. And yet, there's been essentially two serious setbacks in like 20 storylines (losing Light and Cayde dying). And one of those setbacks is completely reversed by the end of its story, with very little followup on that. It is long past due. There are also NUMEROUS Chekov's guns setup promising some kind of failure/disaster/impending peril. It would be completely incompetent writing to NOT have any of these things occur.
To try to see where you're coming from, they COULD alter the tone in such a mean spirited and dark way that it would no longer feel like the same story. Destiny has not been written with the correct tone for a Red Wedding style event, it's been far too jokey and "fun adventure time" to suddenly throw a bus full of orphans off a cliff where they cause a chain reaction that detonates the puppy factory. However, I think the bigger risk by far is if Bungie doesn't try at all and the LIGHTFALL(TM) storyline is more like the "Light stubs its toe on a dresser" storyline in the end. Imo, they fumbled the first appearance of Darkness powers in that way.
I think a big loss would ironically make the game much MORE fun and exciting, at least from a story sense. What if our familiar allies completely disappear and you have to establish a new crew of much less familiar and less trusted comrades? What if they ditched the City and created a new hub that you build up over storylines, like the Farm but with some brainpower and long-term thinking applied to it. It would be a good opportunity to dig into all the Bad End stories that have been floating in the air and have our character actively use those as roadmaps of things to avoid or things to try, rather than just the "Cool story, bro" they've been treated as so far. I don't actually think the story would be depressing in the slightest, if written correctly, it should be like the part of Predator where Arnold starts setting traps and hiding in the mud (aka, the best part).
Uhuh. You are still doing it.
You actually added the Cavuto in there! We can do a tour of all the shitty things you say when you know your statement isn't true. "Many people have seemingly decided", yeah, and none of them are posting in this thread.
We can snipe back and forth and get nowhere, so let me put out a statement. Tell me if you disagree/agree.
"Depressing stories can not be good stories."
Final shape wasn’t in the original plans. They sort of admitted they needed it to properly send off destiny 2.
The way I anyway imagined it is lightfall ends the dark vs light story. Final shape is a dlc that sets destiny 2 up to continue with minimal support going forward. It’ll set up systems and engagement loops that don’t require much from the devs so we can technically continue playing but ultimately ending d2 as a live service game
Maybe more procedurally generated stuff, more faction, pvp focused stuff. Basically make d2 more of a sandbox for player driven engagement.
So basically, your assertion is that when I say "dark does not mean good", I actually mean "good means not dark"? Those two sentences are not the same thing.
Of course depressing can be good. Being depressing does not mean it is good. Moreover, not being depressing does not mean it is not good.
As for the other thing, just go read some discussion of the last Thor, or Ragnarok. "Too many jokes to take it seriously" comes up a woeful amount. Same with Destiny, just go read people talking about the plot/possible plot directions; "we should lose and everything should turn to shit" is ubiquitous. It's like that bit of the 70s where everything in the movies had to be as depressing as possible, just expanded to all other media.
I don't want to play that expansion, thanks. I want the game where that shit doesn't happen.
They have helpfully titled the one you probably want to skip, in that case.
It has gotten less oppressive as the series moves forward (good/bad debatable), but it is a series about heroes on the brink against enemies that include an enemy religiously empowered through murder. Recent seasons dealt with trauma, the dark ages, the failure of faith, etc. Like that Saladin story, or Mithrax telling Saint his legend... that shit sets alternate tones, but still within a world of Destiny.
That said, it is intentionally colorful. It (was) intentionally Light v Dark. It is intentionally a T rather than M, not filled with blood or swearing. We are not meant to doubt our Guardian (even if we doubt, say, Shayura, Mara, Savathun).
There will be no Red Wedding. There will be no Oedipus putting out his eyes.There will be no The Last of Us anything. It is still fundamentally a Heroic story, not a Tragic one. But heroes need villains and stakes, and it needs drama or it feels cartoonish, which is not the tone.
Even if we lose the city, though, I bet at least a mission would be dedicated to us fending off Darkness long enough to make sure that the majority of the city's population is able to evacuate, Thor Ragnarok style. Even then, though, at least one significant character would likely go missing/KIA. Like, a nutpunch would be Crow and Amanda making up from the fallout of Season of the Haunted just before one of them is presumed lost and removed from the story for a while.
But even if that happened, I would assume that it would happen really early in the expansion story, and that the majority of it would be about finding a way to kick the Witness to the curb. But they already did that story with the release of Destiny 2.
Personally I would love to go to Torobatl liberate the world from Xivu Arath - a character that almost certainly would have some part to play in the fall of the Witness, as the only Hive 'god' left standing.
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Future storylines might get "darker" but I very much doubt that our in-game experience is going to change very much and I completely assume it'll stay fun as hell, and that's what I care about at the end of the day because for me Destiny is a chill way to unwind at the end of the day. I don't take it super seriously because it doesn't take itself super seriously and that's ok with me.
I figure we’ll evac the City as the Traveller is pulled apart by the Witness’ fleet. Lightbearer Hive, Eliksni, Cabal and Humanity forming a rag tag fleet looking for a new home.
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Not that I don't appreciate a good loss to set up a win, or think unrelentingly negative stories like that which get praised are universally undeserving, just, it's exhausting when the only respectable fiction, the stuff everyone with an opinion wants to turn every other piece of fiction into, is the sort of thing you have zero interest in as a consumer (or creator).
D1 had a good narrative throughline. We defeat Crota, but that angers Oryx. We defeat Oryx, but we lose the Reef leadership and we have to deal with a taken war afterwards. Some of those threads lead us into D2's Red War, where we lose the tower, our weapons and our light, but gain it back in different ways. Each story is a victory, but with a consequence.
Then we get to Forsaken, where the lasting impact is that Cayde-6 dies and the Dreaming City is cursed. Both of those seem like major consequences.
But hunters have been without a Vanguard leader for years, and the Dreaming City is still cursed. The narrative over the last couple years never bothered to resolve any of this, retroactively making these consequences feel less significant. Like having only 2/3 of the Vanguard isn't such a big deal at all.
Then all the big expansions since Forsaken wrap themselves up too neatly. Shadowkeep you find the creepy pyramid and just leave it alone for a year. Beyond Light, the fallen discover the darkness but you defeat this new threat as quickly as it appears with no lasting impact. With Witch Queen, Savathun's here, she has the light, and there are hive lightbearers. But you defeat her in the final fight and that's that. We're still here waiting on the pyramid fleet shown from D2 vanilla to finally attack rather than float in space menacingly.
There's a Grimoire Card from D1 based on that idea though it's the Factions being represented in the ships rather then aliens.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
I’ll be happy if they name the Vanguard ship Galactica.
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A major point of the whole 'giving Guardians access to the Darkness' plot is that it IS possible to use it as just another power. There were plenty of Lightbearers in the Dark Age that used Solar, Void and Arc for evil means. Hell, the Trials-gear story is all about a Guardian taking the 'Dark = bad' mantra to the worst level and killing anyone they thought had been near Stasis. It's what makes the Witch Queen story work so well thematically after Beyond Light's.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
Void bonk? Suppresses target and generates overshield on kill, or throw a shield from range that generates overshield on hit. Fire bonk? Scorch the target and deal damage in a cone behind them and also explode the target with Ignite on kill, or have a mini ranged bonk that can be used to spam out charged melee effects to your heart's content. Lightning bonk? Blind the target and an AoE around them or an even bigger AoE if you're amped (which you probably will be), or a cool superhero dive bonk that does an AoE, or a new One-Punch Man charged-charged melee that does the big bonk.
Stasis melee is you lunge a little farther with frustrating tracking that gets consumed on whiff and idk, knocks targets back a little further than other melees I guess? It would be nice if there was an interaction where, like, hitting a target that's frozen with Shiver Strike causes an extra-large shatter effect that, when combined with Whisper of Fissures, is right up there with the current ignite Solar Fulmination+Ember of Eruption for radius.
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Would Infinity War be a 'good story' without Endgame? Yes, assuredly. Without question. It's a great story, and I'll fight anyone who disagrees. You might not enjoy that genre or the way it ends, but the story itself is pretty amazing, with complex characters that deliver more than one note, a plot that moves along quickly without beating you over the head, and handful of really deep moral choices that need to be made along the way.
Would Infinity War be a good movie without Endgame? Eh... that's debatable. Many people (myself included) seek out entertainment as an escape from the Badness of the Real World. I mean, I live in a place that's pretty ideal (for me) and shit's still pretty busted. I'm not really going to pay money to be depressed. All I need to do for that experience is turn on the news....
Honestly, I’d love some little stories. Exploring the ruins of old Earth and what kind of weird stuff has cropped up in the wastes. Seeing what kind of new civilization is built with all of our new allies over time.
So tired of apocalypses. I’m ready for a actual post.
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Vex, who are AI from another dimension might be the answer.
But really the answer is time loops. they could throw us anywhere in the collapse and its not like anyone is writing enough down to remember we time traveled and did stuff in the past.
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