As far as Monoxide's and apotheos' forum "activity" go, here's the best I can tell you: when I got modded a few months back and gained access to the mod discussions, I was honestly shocked to see how active apotheos and Mono really are. They don't post in G&T, hit the "lock thread" button or catch spammers as often as some other G&T mods do, but they're definitely around. To be honest, I guess I didn't really feel like they were part of the community before I became privy to the full picture either, but I realized pretty quickly that they're basically always around.
This is another one of those things that you'll just have to trust me on. I can't force you to do it.
I don't think this addresses some of the stated concerns except to gloss over them.
I'm a bit swamped here, as this thread is basically me and all of G&T.
I don't say this to patronize--can you just re-ask the specific concerns you're talking about?
I'll offer an explanation, and work a bit off of what Imran said. You are a part of the community, K, Orikae is, mcc is, Raijin was (as a mod). We have something to refer to when we think of you; it is how you gather respect from us. But when mods more or less DON'T come into our forum, and then randomly come in and make decisions that we are not happy with, well, we have nothing to respect them for. They are outsiders. And they may very well be active behind the scenes, but if they want to moderate a community, that's not ok. That's not enough.
So wait, this all erupted because of a "no 4chan" rule? I'm not saying it's right, because it isn't, but I remember awhile back Munkus Beaver instituted a "4chan=ban" policy for a bit and there was hardly any uproar. This is a little puzzling.
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
As far as Monoxide's and apotheos' forum "activity" go, here's the best I can tell you: when I got modded a few months back and gained access to the mod discussions, I was honestly shocked to see how active apotheos and Mono really are. They don't post in G&T, hit the "lock thread" button or catch spammers as often as some other G&T mods do, but they're definitely around. To be honest, I guess I didn't really feel like they were part of the community before I became privy to the full picture either, but I realized pretty quickly that they're basically always around.
This is another one of those things that you'll just have to trust me on. I can't force you to do it.
I don't think this addresses some of the stated concerns except to gloss over them.
It does in that if you're saying that Mono and Apo are largely absent because they don't post.. well.. it's not true. They are around, and they do pay attention. I was also around, and paid attention, but I can understand how it would be difficult for anyone to really see that outside the mod forum or H/A.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
So wait, this all erupted because of a "no 4chan" rule? I'm not saying it's right, because it isn't, but I remember awhile back Munkus Beaver instituted a "4chan=ban" policy for a bit and there was hardly any uproar. This is a little puzzling.
Most people do not have a problem with the rule.
Nearly everyone has a problem with the way in which the rule was presented.
apotheos is a bad forumer. He's pretty much a troll. If a regular forumer behaved like him, they'd be in jail constantly, and probably banned.
He nearly never participates in a positive discussion. I don't think that someone that is such a bad forumer should be a leader of the community.
Echo and Mono almost never post. Mono claims to read the forum, and be on IRC a lot. People who are not part of the community should not make decisions on what is best for the community. Echo is worse than Mono on this issue.
I think a lot of regular forumers feel the same about this.
Some of the mods seem to think there are major problems with the forum. I think the biggest problem is a lack of leadership, and a bad example set by some of those in a leadership position.
Sorry if this seems harsh, but it needed to be said.
Agreed on all points, particularly the first one. Pheezer is also extremely guilty of acting like that when in G&T, expecially during that whole business the other night. It was rather pathetic to be honest.
While I have no disagreements here, I don't really see as complaining about him here's going to do much good. It's not like K could do anything about it even if he wanted to.
I would argue that bad mods are specifically related to G&T's "plight," as it were.
Especially since the mods are saying "YOU ARE KEEPING ALL THE NEW PEOPLE AWAY" while at the same time treating the forum base like shit. If they're arguing that it's the regulars who are giving G&T a bad name, some introspection certainly is not unwarranted.
As far as Monoxide's and apotheos' forum "activity" go, here's the best I can tell you: when I got modded a few months back and gained access to the mod discussions, I was honestly shocked to see how active apotheos and Mono really are. They don't post in G&T, hit the "lock thread" button or catch spammers as often as some other G&T mods do, but they're definitely around. To be honest, I guess I didn't really feel like they were part of the community before I became privy to the full picture either, but I realized pretty quickly that they're basically always around.
This is another one of those things that you'll just have to trust me on. I can't force you to do it.
I don't think this addresses some of the stated concerns except to gloss over them.
It does in that if you're saying that Mono and Apo are largely absent because they don't post.. well.. it's not true. They are around, and they do pay attention. I was also around, and paid attention, but I can understand how it would be difficult for anyone to really see that outside the mod forum or H/A.
I understand what you are saying, but it certainly does gloss over what people have been saying. Faricrazy just pointed this out.
It does in that if you're saying that Mono and Apo are largely absent because they don't post.. well.. it's not true. They are around, and they do pay attention. I was also around, and paid attention, but I can understand how it would be difficult for anyone to really see that outside the mod forum or H/A.
How can you lead a community that you are not part of?
Like I said to Mono, build the community from the inside, don't shape it from outside.
Okay, C_Axe and Imran and dots, and others, I'll just level with you guys.
Do I think that apotheos is a bad guy? No.
Do I think that he's a good mod? I do.
Do I think that he can be an insufferable prick a lot of the time? Hell yes I do.
I'd say the same about pheezer. A good guy, a good mod, and a complete fucker on a regular basis.
If you want me to elaborate on any of this, just ask and I'll try if I can.
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
So wait, this all erupted because of a "no 4chan" rule? I'm not saying it's right, because it isn't, but I remember awhile back Munkus Beaver instituted a "4chan=ban" policy for a bit and there was hardly any uproar. This is a little puzzling.
That was the policy for a long time. Basically, moderation slipped to the point it's at now. Apo's terribly tactless post was (I believe) in essence saying that it's coming back.
I would like to add that while Apo's post may have been unpopular, the move is not.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Yeah, Why do we now have fewer mods when I thought it was apparent that we needed more?
I started to notice a lot more G&T mod blackouts not too long ago. You can't blame people for having other things to do, but to remove 2 mods, one who was very active, just seems counterproductive. I don't know if there were reasons behind the removal of them that I just don't know about but needless to say I would say we need at least 2 new active (aside from lurking) G&T mods.
Edit: Okay apparently Raijin resigned but my point still stands
Yeah, there's another thing. There seems to be this bizarre idea (especially among certain mods) that the chat thread is in some way a "clique".
Despite the fact that there is no effort to stop new people from posting in it.
Like some other places I could name.
If anyone is being driven away from the chat thread because they feel it is too clique... Then they're the ones with the problem, not the thread itself. It was years before I started even caring about the chat thread, and when I did, I just went in there and started posting. No one screamed GET OUT or attempted to block me from conversations.
Just my personal experiance, maybe someone else has been blocked from the chat thread.
So wait, this all erupted because of a "no 4chan" rule? I'm not saying it's right, because it isn't, but I remember awhile back Munkus Beaver instituted a "4chan=ban" policy for a bit and there was hardly any uproar. This is a little puzzling.
That was the policy for a long time. Basically, moderation slipped to the point it's at now. Apo's terribly tactless post was (I believe) in essence saying that it's coming back.
I would like to add that while Apo's post may have been unpopular, the move is not.
There were two big questions that came out of the 4chan banning, one directly related, one indirectly.
The direct one was, well, where do we draw the line? Yes, 4chan is not referenced a lot, but it does provide for discussion. And about the "this is a 13+ community" post, what, should we stop talking about and posting pictures from M rated games?
The other question still remains about driving away the current community.
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Forever Zefirocloaked in the midnight glory of an event horizonRegistered Userregular
Okay, C_Axe and Imran and dots, and others, I'll just level with you guys.
Do I think that apotheos is a bad guy? No.
Do I think that he's a good mod? I do.
Do I think that he can be an insufferable prick a lot of the time? Hell yes I do.
I'd say the same about pheezer. A good guy, a good mod, and a complete fucker on a regular basis.
If you want me to elaborate on any of this, just ask and I'll try if I can.
I think the thing is, if they weren't mods, they would be in trouble for how they act, but because they are mods, they don't have to face any consequences.
I think that is the heart of all the trouble.
Forever Zefiro on
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
Okay, C_Axe and Imran and dots, and others, I'll just level with you guys.
Do I think that apotheos is a bad guy? No.
Do I think that he's a good mod? I do.
Do I think that he can be an insufferable prick a lot of the time? Hell yes I do.
I'd say the same about pheezer. A good guy, a good mod, and a complete fucker on a regular basis.
If you want me to elaborate on any of this, just ask and I'll try if I can.
I would argue that being a good mod and an unmitigated asshole are mutually exclusive.
Also, while I'm here. One rule I'd like to see put in place (or maybe just enforced; for all I know it's already a rule): THREADS MUST HAVE RELEVANT SUBJECT LINES.
I'm so goddamn sick of people posting threads with topics like "You'll drool all over yourself when you see this!" or "Need some help with..." and so on. The purpose of a subject line is to let people know what the subject of the post is.
...and that concludes my tangential rant for the day.
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
As far as Monoxide's and apotheos' forum "activity" go, here's the best I can tell you: when I got modded a few months back and gained access to the mod discussions, I was honestly shocked to see how active apotheos and Mono really are. They don't post in G&T, hit the "lock thread" button or catch spammers as often as some other G&T mods do, but they're definitely around. To be honest, I guess I didn't really feel like they were part of the community before I became privy to the full picture either, but I realized pretty quickly that they're basically always around.
This is another one of those things that you'll just have to trust me on. I can't force you to do it.
I don't think this addresses some of the stated concerns except to gloss over them.
It does in that if you're saying that Mono and Apo are largely absent because they don't post.. well.. it's not true. They are around, and they do pay attention. I was also around, and paid attention, but I can understand how it would be difficult for anyone to really see that outside the mod forum or H/A.
I understand what you are saying, but it certainly does gloss over what people have been saying. Faricrazy just pointed this out.
It's arguably just a different style of moderation. I'm not sticking up for his tact or lack thereof, that's his party.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Yeah, there's another thing. There seems to be this bizarre idea (especially among certain mods) that the chat thread is in some way a "clique".
Despite the fact that there is no effort to stop new people from posting in it.
Like some other places I could name.
If anyone is being driven away from the chat thread because they feel it is too clique... Then they're the ones with the problem, not the thread itself. It was years before I started even caring about the chat thread, and when I did, I just went in there and started posting. No one screamed GET OUT or attempted to block me from conversations.
Just my personal experiance, maybe someone else has been blocked from the chat thread.
Honestly, I rarely actually chat, but I usually read the thread every now and then, if only for some craziness and isketch or CSS gatherings. But I've never seen any kind of real hatred or blocking of new people. People just waltz in, say something, stay for a while, and waltz back out. (Eventually.) I've seen some internet cliques in my day, and the chat thread is hardly one of them.
I am personally far less concerned about how often the mod posts and definitely more concerned how those mods act.
I really don't care if Mono comes in to G&T and says "Guys, we're thinking of changing some things, what do you, as the community, think?" regardless of how often he posts. People have stuff to do, that doesn't automatically disqualify them from being good leaders or making good decisions.
Oh, no! You've got it all wrong. You guys have just sat around all day making jabs, creating little bandwagons, and complaining about decisions that haven't even taken place yet. How could anyone want to get rid of that?
One has to ask at what point the ends justify the means. I am assuming, perhaps wrongly, that the mods just want the best for G&T. The question is at what point do the ends justify the means? Where's the line where you have to say "Maybe they have a point"?
If you really want to destroy the G&T community, spontaneous jailings/bannings, and removing the Chat Thread are the way to go. They'll drive off people faster than it took NBC to pull Book of Daniel. The Chat Thread is the G&T Community more than the rest of the forum. Nearly everyone who posts there posts in the rest of the forum, and for those who don't: Who cares? It doesn't hurt the forum at all.
You say the future of the Chat Thread is "being discussed". This leads me, and others, to believe that this is a dictatorship forum. The forums should not be run this way. If you really and truly want to keep the community AND see that it sustains for future newcomers, we MUST have a voice in the matter. And let me be the first to say that getting rid of the Chat Thread is NOT the way to keep the community together.
Okay, C_Axe and Imran and dots, and others, I'll just level with you guys.
Do I think that apotheos is a bad guy? No.
Do I think that he's a good mod? I do.
Do I think that he can be an insufferable prick a lot of the time? Hell yes I do.
I'd say the same about pheezer. A good guy, a good mod, and a complete fucker on a regular basis.
If you want me to elaborate on any of this, just ask and I'll try if I can.
here's the thing, he could be the best guy in the world, but from his behavior in front of gen. pop., you'd never know. Someone said that he's one of the biggest trolls he's seen on the board, and I don't know if he's the biggest, but he's certainly up there, in my experience, and in the experience of others. you're entitled to your opinion, but is your opinion enough to dismiss several complaints completely out of hand?
MA17 actually resigned a long time ago--he's barely been active at all for the last six months or more--but he was on the books until about a week ago. Just a coincidence.
ceres is still a mod, but she's no longer a G&T mod. She was being harassed by a G&T forumer over AIM after the fallout from the chat thread drama--which she wasn't even present for--and decided it would be best if she just stepped down from moderating G&T.
So wait, this all erupted because of a "no 4chan" rule? I'm not saying it's right, because it isn't, but I remember awhile back Munkus Beaver instituted a "4chan=ban" policy for a bit and there was hardly any uproar. This is a little puzzling.
That was the policy for a long time. Basically, moderation slipped to the point it's at now. Apo's terribly tactless post was (I believe) in essence saying that it's coming back.
I would like to add that while Apo's post may have been unpopular, the move is not.
The rule apo mention, was an instant ban/jail for even mentioning 4chan. I am probably one of the few people to have consistantly checked the rules thread when it's marked as updated since I first joined 3 years ago, and I cannot ever remember a rule against even mentioning 4chan, ever. Not that I care, 4chan blows, it's the attitude of the mods of late in general and in that thread in particular that is concerning.
MA17 actually resigned a long time ago--he's barely been active at all for the last six months or more--but he was on the books until about a week ago. Just a coincidence.
ceres is still a mod, but she's no longer a G&T mod. She was being harassed by a G&T forumer over AIM after the fallout from the chat thread drama--which she wasn't even present for--and decided it would be best if she just stepped down from moderating G&T.
...what?
fucking lame.
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited June 2006
Another point would be that removing the chat thread because it's "too much of a clique that's scaring new users away" would pretty much force everyone put up with a community that's arguably more cliquish and actually does scare people away.
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
So wait, this all erupted because of a "no 4chan" rule? I'm not saying it's right, because it isn't, but I remember awhile back Munkus Beaver instituted a "4chan=ban" policy for a bit and there was hardly any uproar. This is a little puzzling.
That was the policy for a long time. Basically, moderation slipped to the point it's at now. Apo's terribly tactless post was (I believe) in essence saying that it's coming back.
I would like to add that while Apo's post may have been unpopular, the move is not.
There were two big questions that came out of the 4chan banning, one directly related, one indirectly.
The direct one was, well, where do we draw the line? Yes, 4chan is not referenced a lot, but it does provide for discussion. And about the "this is a 13+ community" post, what, should we stop talking about and posting pictures from M rated games?
The other question still remains about driving away the current community.
4chan is a special case because so very much of its content is SO explicit and disturbing in so many different ways. IIRC (and I may not), the same rule may have been in place for linking to SA, for the same reasons. I don't have answers to more than that, but I can tell you that as I understood it, that was the policy and why.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Okay, C_Axe and Imran and dots, and others, I'll just level with you guys.
Do I think that apotheos is a bad guy? No.
Do I think that he's a good mod? I do.
Do I think that he can be an insufferable prick a lot of the time? Hell yes I do.
I'd say the same about pheezer. A good guy, a good mod, and a complete fucker on a regular basis.
If you want me to elaborate on any of this, just ask and I'll try if I can.
I admitted that he could be a great guy. He has a lot of friends here, so he must be.
But he does not represent that on the boards and that is really all I'm concerned about. Normal people can become internet trolls really easily. Apo's an example of one that got a mod badge.
And it's nice that you think he's a good mod, but I personally don't. It seems the vast majority of the community does not. If he's going to start making tactless posts, belittling comments, and forming changes to our community, shouldn't we get some sort of say in who makes those choices?
ceres is still a mod, but she's no longer a G&T mod. She was being harassed by a G&T forumer over AIM after the fallout from the chat thread drama--which she wasn't even present for--and decided it would be best if she just stepped down from moderating G&T.
So wait, this all erupted because of a "no 4chan" rule? I'm not saying it's right, because it isn't, but I remember awhile back Munkus Beaver instituted a "4chan=ban" policy for a bit and there was hardly any uproar. This is a little puzzling.
That was the policy for a long time. Basically, moderation slipped to the point it's at now. Apo's terribly tactless post was (I believe) in essence saying that it's coming back.
I would like to add that while Apo's post may have been unpopular, the move is not.
There were two big questions that came out of the 4chan banning, one directly related, one indirectly.
The direct one was, well, where do we draw the line? Yes, 4chan is not referenced a lot, but it does provide for discussion. And about the "this is a 13+ community" post, what, should we stop talking about and posting pictures from M rated games?
The other question still remains about driving away the current community.
4chan is a special case because so very much of its content is SO explicit and disturbing in so many different ways. IIRC (and I may not), the same rule may have been in place for linking to SA, for the same reasons. I don't have answers to more than that, but I can tell you that as I understood it, that was the policy and why.
SA? I've never heard of this rule. Is there a reason? We can't link to comedy goldmines?
MA17 actually resigned a long time ago--he's barely been active at all for the last six months or more--but he was on the books until about a week ago. Just a coincidence.
ceres is still a mod, but she's no longer a G&T mod. She was being harassed by a G&T forumer over AIM after the fallout from the chat thread drama--which she wasn't even present for--and decided it would be best if she just stepped down from moderating G&T.
...what?
fucking lame.
That's fucking stupid.
Whoever did that has my eternal contempt.
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
MA17 actually resigned a long time ago--he's barely been active at all for the last six months or more--but he was on the books until about a week ago. Just a coincidence.
ceres is still a mod, but she's no longer a G&T mod. She was being harassed by a G&T forumer over AIM after the fallout from the chat thread drama--which she wasn't even present for--and decided it would be best if she just stepped down from moderating G&T.
...what?
fucking lame.
That's fucking stupid.
Whoever did that has my eternal contempt and a scaaaaaary indian curse.
And it's nice that you think he's a good mod, but I personally don't. It seems the vast majority of the community does not. If he's going to start making tactless posts, belittling comments, and forming changes to our community, shouldn't we get some sort of say in who makes those choices?
This is one of those situations I warned about in the OP: I don't really have an answer that you're going to be happy with.
I wish everyone on the forum would be more polite, and this includes several mods.
As far as the mod lineup: the forum admin gets the final say on who gets called up. I don't think that's going to change.
If you really want to get a better response to these concerns, you'll basically have to take it up with Whippy.
As far as Monoxide's and apotheos' forum "activity" go, here's the best I can tell you: when I got modded a few months back and gained access to the mod discussions, I was honestly shocked to see how active apotheos and Mono really are. They don't post in G&T, hit the "lock thread" button or catch spammers as often as some other G&T mods do, but they're definitely around. To be honest, I guess I didn't really feel like they were part of the community before I became privy to the full picture either, but I realized pretty quickly that they're basically always around.
This is another one of those things that you'll just have to trust me on. I can't force you to do it.
See, Captain K. This is why I'm an atheist.
I'm not big on the whole "Trust me, they're there" scenario. Maybe it works for some people, but it rarely works for me, especially when I'm ACTIVELY being moderated by these people.
Some people would actually argue that that is how you run a forum.
And I would argue that those people people should not be in charge.
We forumers are ALL people who can't be expected to just jump into line with a brand new rule as soon as it's posted. We need some time to adapt, look it over and get used to the idea that this is gonna change. You can't just snap your fingers and go "Change. Or else" and not get any lip.
So wait, this all erupted because of a "no 4chan" rule? I'm not saying it's right, because it isn't, but I remember awhile back Munkus Beaver instituted a "4chan=ban" policy for a bit and there was hardly any uproar. This is a little puzzling.
That was the policy for a long time. Basically, moderation slipped to the point it's at now. Apo's terribly tactless post was (I believe) in essence saying that it's coming back.
I would like to add that while Apo's post may have been unpopular, the move is not.
What got me about the rule as it was described is that:
1) Ludicrously, even mentioning the name of the place was being considered grounds for banning
2) Apo said something about banning people for "screencapping" it, even in instances when said screencap was entirely worksafe. Personally I don't think I've ever seen anybody do this except during the YF debacle, but it's still dumb.
3) While I perfectly understand the reasons for rules against linking to pornographic websites, I don't particularly appreciate the claim that even the worksafe boards there are in some way indicative of immense perversion. I am also still perplexed by the statement that "hentai, yuri and yaoi" are "fetishes", though it's sort of a moot point in context of these forums.
4) The basic reasoning was not "it's porn" but "mentioning it isn't appropriate for a 13+ board". I ask you, how much of the content on this forum would be considered appropriate for a 13-year-old by his parents?
MA17 actually resigned a long time ago--he's barely been active at all for the last six months or more--but he was on the books until about a week ago. Just a coincidence.
ceres is still a mod, but she's no longer a G&T mod. She was being harassed by a G&T forumer over AIM after the fallout from the chat thread drama--which she wasn't even present for--and decided it would be best if she just stepped down from moderating G&T.
I see.
But yeah.. I'm still thinking we need.. well.. more. I could name 3 very active forumers (not just in the chat thread) that I would say, in my experience with them, show good leadership qualities and judgement. That's not my call by any means but still. It's not like there's a shortage of people that would make great mods.
Okay, time to address some of the most heinous misinformation:
what happened in the chat thread was not--I repeat, was not--any kind of "experiment" at all. apotheos made a comment that was basically "someday, there will be a rule against this thing that is currently commonplace", and it erupted into the 40 pages that followed. It was completely spontaneous.
apotheos used the word "experiment" for reasons I don't think even he understands. It was a mistake.
For some reason, nobody seems to want to believe this, and I doubt Imran will change his sig based on me just telling you that this is the truth... but it's the truth. I don't know what other words I can use to explain it. No mind games, no experiment, no deadly, sinister motives. Just a poor choice of words in the heat of the moment.
I don't remember him using hte word "experiment" directly, despite claims towards this.
however, it is not exactly a stretch of the imagination to equate
But why did this happen? I think it happened because us, the mods, wanted to see what you, the users, did when engaged in an actual discussion about the future of the forum.
to the admission of it being a purposeful experiment of sorts on the forumers.
to be honest, part of the reason this whole thing bother's me is that Apotheos' reasons for wanting to ban the use of the name "4chan" are ridiculous, given the general type of chat in the first place.
as I remember from the times it's come up in the past (He's brought up the fact he does not approve of us saying it, or talking about it's boards in the past), he feels that people will look it up online and discover porn on it.
however, we're a community that regularly uses words like "fuck", "cock", etc. yet somehow, the name of this one board is the only thing that will be searched out?
there's also the amount of Hyperbole he used in the defense of his stance, and it's insulting nature (such as the inference of Hentai, yaoi and yuri being deviant, sick fetishes, and repeated comparison to tentacle porn).
I think another part of the problem was this coming so soon after talks of a G&T Shakeup, and I don't think that various mods who maybe drop into the chat thread but every couple of weeks all at the same time invited a feeling of ill-at-ease.
I feel like I'm forgetting something, but this sums up my thoughts for now
So wait, this all erupted because of a "no 4chan" rule? I'm not saying it's right, because it isn't, but I remember awhile back Munkus Beaver instituted a "4chan=ban" policy for a bit and there was hardly any uproar. This is a little puzzling.
That was the policy for a long time. Basically, moderation slipped to the point it's at now. Apo's terribly tactless post was (I believe) in essence saying that it's coming back.
I would like to add that while Apo's post may have been unpopular, the move is not.
There were two big questions that came out of the 4chan banning, one directly related, one indirectly.
The direct one was, well, where do we draw the line? Yes, 4chan is not referenced a lot, but it does provide for discussion. And about the "this is a 13+ community" post, what, should we stop talking about and posting pictures from M rated games?
The other question still remains about driving away the current community.
4chan is a special case because so very much of its content is SO explicit and disturbing in so many different ways. IIRC (and I may not), the same rule may have been in place for linking to SA, for the same reasons. I don't have answers to more than that, but I can tell you that as I understood it, that was the policy and why.
SA? I've never heard of this rule. Is there a reason? We can't link to comedy goldmines?
Uhh. This doesn't sound right, because I remember the (rather hilarious) "Why is this chat pink?" thread. Which was directly linked to SA in the first post.
Which begs the question, exactly what changes can we affect from this thread and what is going to be "This is how it works, the mods are discussing this"?
Posts
Nearly everyone has a problem with the way in which the rule was presented.
Especially since the mods are saying "YOU ARE KEEPING ALL THE NEW PEOPLE AWAY" while at the same time treating the forum base like shit. If they're arguing that it's the regulars who are giving G&T a bad name, some introspection certainly is not unwarranted.
Despite the fact that there is no effort to stop new people from posting in it.
Like some other places I could name.
Like I said to Mono, build the community from the inside, don't shape it from outside.
Do I think that apotheos is a bad guy? No.
Do I think that he's a good mod? I do.
Do I think that he can be an insufferable prick a lot of the time? Hell yes I do.
I'd say the same about pheezer. A good guy, a good mod, and a complete fucker on a regular basis.
If you want me to elaborate on any of this, just ask and I'll try if I can.
I would like to add that while Apo's post may have been unpopular, the move is not.
I started to notice a lot more G&T mod blackouts not too long ago. You can't blame people for having other things to do, but to remove 2 mods, one who was very active, just seems counterproductive. I don't know if there were reasons behind the removal of them that I just don't know about but needless to say I would say we need at least 2 new active (aside from lurking) G&T mods.
Edit: Okay apparently Raijin resigned but my point still stands
Just my personal experiance, maybe someone else has been blocked from the chat thread.
The direct one was, well, where do we draw the line? Yes, 4chan is not referenced a lot, but it does provide for discussion. And about the "this is a 13+ community" post, what, should we stop talking about and posting pictures from M rated games?
The other question still remains about driving away the current community.
I think the thing is, if they weren't mods, they would be in trouble for how they act, but because they are mods, they don't have to face any consequences.
I think that is the heart of all the trouble.
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
Also, while I'm here. One rule I'd like to see put in place (or maybe just enforced; for all I know it's already a rule): THREADS MUST HAVE RELEVANT SUBJECT LINES.
I'm so goddamn sick of people posting threads with topics like "You'll drool all over yourself when you see this!" or "Need some help with..." and so on. The purpose of a subject line is to let people know what the subject of the post is.
...and that concludes my tangential rant for the day.
Honestly, I rarely actually chat, but I usually read the thread every now and then, if only for some craziness and isketch or CSS gatherings. But I've never seen any kind of real hatred or blocking of new people. People just waltz in, say something, stay for a while, and waltz back out. (Eventually.) I've seen some internet cliques in my day, and the chat thread is hardly one of them.
I really don't care if Mono comes in to G&T and says "Guys, we're thinking of changing some things, what do you, as the community, think?" regardless of how often he posts. People have stuff to do, that doesn't automatically disqualify them from being good leaders or making good decisions.
However, you don't do things like this:
One has to ask at what point the ends justify the means. I am assuming, perhaps wrongly, that the mods just want the best for G&T. The question is at what point do the ends justify the means? Where's the line where you have to say "Maybe they have a point"?
He was promptly demodded without any communication on the subject.
Note: I dont have wireless set up yet so I wont be able to add you just yet.
You say the future of the Chat Thread is "being discussed". This leads me, and others, to believe that this is a dictatorship forum. The forums should not be run this way. If you really and truly want to keep the community AND see that it sustains for future newcomers, we MUST have a voice in the matter. And let me be the first to say that getting rid of the Chat Thread is NOT the way to keep the community together.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Raijin resigned very recently, as I said above.
MA17 actually resigned a long time ago--he's barely been active at all for the last six months or more--but he was on the books until about a week ago. Just a coincidence.
ceres is still a mod, but she's no longer a G&T mod. She was being harassed by a G&T forumer over AIM after the fallout from the chat thread drama--which she wasn't even present for--and decided it would be best if she just stepped down from moderating G&T.
The rule apo mention, was an instant ban/jail for even mentioning 4chan. I am probably one of the few people to have consistantly checked the rules thread when it's marked as updated since I first joined 3 years ago, and I cannot ever remember a rule against even mentioning 4chan, ever. Not that I care, 4chan blows, it's the attitude of the mods of late in general and in that thread in particular that is concerning.
...what?
fucking lame.
Kyou, you clearly don't have all the information. Please stop spreading misinformation.
But he does not represent that on the boards and that is really all I'm concerned about. Normal people can become internet trolls really easily. Apo's an example of one that got a mod badge.
And it's nice that you think he's a good mod, but I personally don't. It seems the vast majority of the community does not. If he's going to start making tactless posts, belittling comments, and forming changes to our community, shouldn't we get some sort of say in who makes those choices?
Whoever did that has my eternal contempt.
I wish everyone on the forum would be more polite, and this includes several mods.
As far as the mod lineup: the forum admin gets the final say on who gets called up. I don't think that's going to change.
If you really want to get a better response to these concerns, you'll basically have to take it up with Whippy.
See, Captain K. This is why I'm an atheist.
I'm not big on the whole "Trust me, they're there" scenario. Maybe it works for some people, but it rarely works for me, especially when I'm ACTIVELY being moderated by these people.
And I would argue that those people people should not be in charge.
We forumers are ALL people who can't be expected to just jump into line with a brand new rule as soon as it's posted. We need some time to adapt, look it over and get used to the idea that this is gonna change. You can't just snap your fingers and go "Change. Or else" and not get any lip.
1) Ludicrously, even mentioning the name of the place was being considered grounds for banning
2) Apo said something about banning people for "screencapping" it, even in instances when said screencap was entirely worksafe. Personally I don't think I've ever seen anybody do this except during the YF debacle, but it's still dumb.
3) While I perfectly understand the reasons for rules against linking to pornographic websites, I don't particularly appreciate the claim that even the worksafe boards there are in some way indicative of immense perversion. I am also still perplexed by the statement that "hentai, yuri and yaoi" are "fetishes", though it's sort of a moot point in context of these forums.
4) The basic reasoning was not "it's porn" but "mentioning it isn't appropriate for a 13+ board". I ask you, how much of the content on this forum would be considered appropriate for a 13-year-old by his parents?
But yeah.. I'm still thinking we need.. well.. more. I could name 3 very active forumers (not just in the chat thread) that I would say, in my experience with them, show good leadership qualities and judgement. That's not my call by any means but still. It's not like there's a shortage of people that would make great mods.
I don't like naming names though, good or bad.
I don't remember him using hte word "experiment" directly, despite claims towards this.
however, it is not exactly a stretch of the imagination to equate
to the admission of it being a purposeful experiment of sorts on the forumers.
to be honest, part of the reason this whole thing bother's me is that Apotheos' reasons for wanting to ban the use of the name "4chan" are ridiculous, given the general type of chat in the first place.
as I remember from the times it's come up in the past (He's brought up the fact he does not approve of us saying it, or talking about it's boards in the past), he feels that people will look it up online and discover porn on it.
however, we're a community that regularly uses words like "fuck", "cock", etc. yet somehow, the name of this one board is the only thing that will be searched out?
there's also the amount of Hyperbole he used in the defense of his stance, and it's insulting nature (such as the inference of Hentai, yaoi and yuri being deviant, sick fetishes, and repeated comparison to tentacle porn).
I think another part of the problem was this coming so soon after talks of a G&T Shakeup, and I don't think that various mods who maybe drop into the chat thread but every couple of weeks all at the same time invited a feeling of ill-at-ease.
I feel like I'm forgetting something, but this sums up my thoughts for now
Uhh. This doesn't sound right, because I remember the (rather hilarious) "Why is this chat pink?" thread. Which was directly linked to SA in the first post.