UtsanomikoBros before DoesRollin' in the thlayRegistered Userregular
edited February 2009
Bell curves work best for games where there's a wide range of possibilities and the players need to be able to rely on the median numbers to be more probable results than the extremes, like with the endless variations of challenges in roleplaying games. I've always felt Dungeons and Dragons has a shortcoming due to its d20 + small bonus mechanic.
There's no point to use more than one or two dice in a boardgame that just needs a straight-forward and easy to read 50/50 or 75/25 chance for a couple actions.
Oh, I understand what the difference is, I just don't get the love of them. In board games especially. They're all about horrible random chance. (Look at Blarney's current game for an idea of what I mean.)
There's a list of them in the boardgames thread, somebody already made up a bunch. I wasn't really impressed. With some maths I think I might go through and rework them a little later.
Yeah, iv seen them. Just thought this would be a better thread for them rather than the general board games one.
Played this game tonight with 4 new folks. It was really interesting to watch the play speed up as they got more comfortable with the system.
We started with Baltar (me), Starbuck, Boomer, Roslin, and Adama. I was human at the start, and a lucky crisis card let me scan the admiral; he was clean too. Unfortunately, despite the fact that I had shuffled the deck, we ran into 5 or 6 Cylon attacks before the first jump. It was insanity, we were bleeding resources left and right, all the raiders, basestars and civvies were out there, we fucking lost 2 of our vipers permanently before the first jump.
At the first jump, however, the admiral took us to Ragnar Anchorage, so we got a raptor and the vipers back. Things continued rather routinely to the sleeper agent phase; I made sure to do some overtly friendly things, like evasive maneuvers and strategic planning, so that there would be no doubts about my loyalty.
Which worked out really nicely when I got the "YOU ARE A CYLON - Throw a player in the brig." card.
On my next turn, I stated that I wasn't comfortable with the president and the admiral being the same person (martial law card, obviously, had come around in the first half). Roslin agreed, since I had "been friendly lately", referring to the evasive maneuvers and such. On the recommendation of Roslin, Starbuck got on board with the movement, and we threw Adama into the brig with Boomer.
The next time around, I decided that I needed to have a better idea who my ally was before I threw anyone else in the brig. So I scanned Boomer, for obvious statistical reasons. Sure enough, it was her, so I told everyone that she was clean, and that we should let her out of the brig. I made sure to say that we should let Adama out too, now that his title had passed to Starbuck.
We got around to Boomer's turn, and she activated the brig. Once again, everyone except Adama was on board with the plan, so she got out easily. Unfortunately, she sabotaged the crisis check that turn, and the destiny deck turned up in such a way as to out her, which incriminated me by extension.
Then it was Roslin's turn. She XO'd Starbuck to activate the Admiral's Quarters, but Boomer and I managed to keep the check from going through. Adama passed his turn trying to escape the brig -- we also prevented this.
My turn. I revealed, throwing Starbuck into the brig, leaving the admiral's title to Boomer. From there, my chronology is fuzzier. I do remember that Boomer got hold of the president's title as well, and turned up an arrest order from the deck to put Roslin in the brig.
So there we were. Boomer kicked around in the president's office a few turns, I kicked around in the human fleet location, and we managed to drain the last food pretty quickly.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
edited February 2009
in that case wouldn't the Admiral title immediately transfer back to Adama when he was let out of the brig? I'm pretty sure its just always given to the character highest in succession who isn't in the brig.
On that note, provided my above understanding of the rules is correct, I have to wonder if they made Adama Sr a little weaker due to the fact that he would almost always have the Admiral title. Gameplay-wise, I'd have to say he's probably the weakest character, Admiral-title aside.
On that note, provided my above understanding of the rules is correct, I have to wonder if they made Adama Sr a little weaker due to the fact that he would almost always have the Admiral title. Gameplay-wise, I'd have to say he's probably the weakest character, Admiral-title aside.
He is the most suited for the admirals title, so when he has the title he kícks ass, when he doesn't have it he falls a bit short.
in that case wouldn't the Admiral title immediately transfer back to Adama when he was let out of the brig? I'm pretty sure its just always given to the character highest in succession who isn't in the brig.
On that note, provided my above understanding of the rules is correct, I have to wonder if they made Adama Sr a little weaker due to the fact that he would almost always have the Admiral title. Gameplay-wise, I'd have to say he's probably the weakest character, Admiral-title aside.
The Admiral title is not automatically transferred when leaving the Brig. Only when the current Admiral loses it by revealing or being put into the Brig.
Yeah, the title doesn't transfer unless there's a reason the current Admiral can't have it anymore. And in any case, I only said that I would support Adama's release to throw them off the scent a little longer -- I figured if I could get Boomer out of the brig and someone else in the brig with Adama, the game would be a done deal.
I'm starting to hate the sympathizer card. Has anyone played a game where the sympathizer sided with the cylons but the humans managed to win anyway?
I played a 6-player game yesterday where one cylon (Tyrol) was around from the start of the game, but operated under DEEEEEEP cover. He didn't sabotage any checks, he helped pass some big checks, and he actively repaired stuff. The other cylon, Admiral Tigh, was a sleeper who we caught very quickly and before he could drive us into the middle of nowhere. All in all, we should have defeated them handily...
BUUUUUUUUT... we were doing so well as we approached the sleeper phase (after the jump we had 6 fuel, 9 food!, 8 morale, 12 population) that we decided not to intentionally tank one resource. The sympathizer (Boomer, of course) went baddie on us, which made things a little rougher. Even though we caught Tigh quickly we still faced two cylon actions every round and struggled to hang on. And it was effectively a 4 on 2... Tyrol was helping so as to avoid detection. Tyrol's eventual reveal was after we'd effectively lost the game: there were a dozen raiders closing in on our last 4 civilian ships, with our jump counter sitting at 2.
My point is, the humans had this game in the bag. We minimized the roles of the cylons about as much as I could possibly imagine. And we still couldn't overcome the sympathizer.
I'm planning to pretty much never use the sympathizer card unless people just specifically want to try it. I'll replace it with one cylon card and one human card -- this will leave one unassigned loyalty card, obviously, but no one will know which it is.
Is there a variant out there that requires more than 8 distance, but adjusts the resources higher? It seems like making the game longer would inherently deepen the strategy and intensity of the game.
That's an interesting idea.. I'm a little concerned about starting a 6-player game with three cylons though. Maybe you should add those cards in after the initial deal?
Another tiny problem is that a 6-player game with Boomer and Gaius already uses all the human cards. EDIT: Though I suppose you could just use the sympathizer card as a human card. Nevermind.
Also, I'd like to mention that that game was probably the first and only time I'll ever be given orders by Admiral Baltar in a 6-player game.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
edited February 2009
So to get clarification, the admiral/prez must be handed to the highest available person in the line of succession, no matter what, whenever control gets transferred? Because that is a powerful little thing for whoever is highest.
Yup. President transfers regardless of who's in the brig, but if you're in the brig, you're treated as though you weren't in the Admiral line of succession. Unless, of course, all non-revealed-Cylon players are in the brig, in which case the person highest in line takes it even though he/she is under arrest.
Alright then, everyone who's interested in playing a game, this is your chance.
6:00 PM PST, 16 February 2009 (That's tomorrow).
A 6 player game will be held over AIM, IRC, Ventrillo, or any combination thereof. The rules will be vanilla Battlestar Galactica except the sympathizer card will be replaced with 1 additional cylon and you are not a cylon card.
If you want to reserve a spot, just say so in this thread with some bold cyan action. But if you do so, make sure you come! Otherwise, players will be selected on a first come, first serve basis.
Scriblink for the board then IRC/AIM to send cards and roll dice. Ventrillo for the ability to call someone a dirty cylon in your own deep scratchy voice.
Anyways, you're going to add the bonus "Cylon/Human" cards at the same time you would normally add the sympathizer card?
Yep, apparently people really don't like the Sympathizer mechanic.
I think this is kinda funny since that's actually better for the cylons than the sympathizer role. This "bonus" cylon would still get a super crisis, have access to all the cylon locations and not be immediately revealed.
Given some of the recent issues it seems like an odd fix.
El SkidThe frozen white northRegistered Userregular
edited February 2009
I actually like the mechanic we'll be using in Darian's BSG game- no sympathizer, but cylons get to draw and keep more cards. We'll see how balanced it is shortly...
I actually like the mechanic we'll be using in Darian's BSG game- no sympathizer, but cylons get to draw and keep more cards. We'll see how balanced it is shortly...
I'm leery of it. Actions tend to be far more important than cards.
Also, now that the epic game has wrapped up I'll likely wait a day or two before starting one. A fair few people have expressed interest and there are a couple of spots set aside, so I'll have to work that out shortly.
Clearly we have to run a 'Pegasus' next to Galactica, alternating ships every turn and combining the space quadrants. Cylon attacks are placed in the space areas of the ships that draw them. :P
Doesn't Vent have a text-to-voice option? I'm sure there won't be too many jokes about your robotic voice. Dabbleboard literally does not work. You can send links but they don't actually connect to anything.
Edit: I may just go with a forum post that I (or a player) edit(s) every turn. Updating a graphic board would probably take longer to do.
Posts
There's no point to use more than one or two dice in a boardgame that just needs a straight-forward and easy to read 50/50 or 75/25 chance for a couple actions.
Yeah, iv seen them. Just thought this would be a better thread for them rather than the general board games one.
We started with Baltar (me), Starbuck, Boomer, Roslin, and Adama. I was human at the start, and a lucky crisis card let me scan the admiral; he was clean too. Unfortunately, despite the fact that I had shuffled the deck, we ran into 5 or 6 Cylon attacks before the first jump. It was insanity, we were bleeding resources left and right, all the raiders, basestars and civvies were out there, we fucking lost 2 of our vipers permanently before the first jump.
At the first jump, however, the admiral took us to Ragnar Anchorage, so we got a raptor and the vipers back. Things continued rather routinely to the sleeper agent phase; I made sure to do some overtly friendly things, like evasive maneuvers and strategic planning, so that there would be no doubts about my loyalty.
Which worked out really nicely when I got the "YOU ARE A CYLON - Throw a player in the brig." card.
On my next turn, I stated that I wasn't comfortable with the president and the admiral being the same person (martial law card, obviously, had come around in the first half). Roslin agreed, since I had "been friendly lately", referring to the evasive maneuvers and such. On the recommendation of Roslin, Starbuck got on board with the movement, and we threw Adama into the brig with Boomer.
The next time around, I decided that I needed to have a better idea who my ally was before I threw anyone else in the brig. So I scanned Boomer, for obvious statistical reasons. Sure enough, it was her, so I told everyone that she was clean, and that we should let her out of the brig. I made sure to say that we should let Adama out too, now that his title had passed to Starbuck.
We got around to Boomer's turn, and she activated the brig. Once again, everyone except Adama was on board with the plan, so she got out easily. Unfortunately, she sabotaged the crisis check that turn, and the destiny deck turned up in such a way as to out her, which incriminated me by extension.
Then it was Roslin's turn. She XO'd Starbuck to activate the Admiral's Quarters, but Boomer and I managed to keep the check from going through. Adama passed his turn trying to escape the brig -- we also prevented this.
My turn. I revealed, throwing Starbuck into the brig, leaving the admiral's title to Boomer.
So there we were. Boomer kicked around in the president's office a few turns, I kicked around in the human fleet location, and we managed to drain the last food pretty quickly.
On that note, provided my above understanding of the rules is correct, I have to wonder if they made Adama Sr a little weaker due to the fact that he would almost always have the Admiral title. Gameplay-wise, I'd have to say he's probably the weakest character, Admiral-title aside.
He is the most suited for the admirals title, so when he has the title he kícks ass, when he doesn't have it he falls a bit short.
The Admiral title is not automatically transferred when leaving the Brig. Only when the current Admiral loses it by revealing or being put into the Brig.
I played a 6-player game yesterday where one cylon (Tyrol) was around from the start of the game, but operated under DEEEEEEP cover. He didn't sabotage any checks, he helped pass some big checks, and he actively repaired stuff. The other cylon, Admiral Tigh, was a sleeper who we caught very quickly and before he could drive us into the middle of nowhere. All in all, we should have defeated them handily...
BUUUUUUUUT... we were doing so well as we approached the sleeper phase (after the jump we had 6 fuel, 9 food!, 8 morale, 12 population) that we decided not to intentionally tank one resource. The sympathizer (Boomer, of course) went baddie on us, which made things a little rougher. Even though we caught Tigh quickly we still faced two cylon actions every round and struggled to hang on. And it was effectively a 4 on 2... Tyrol was helping so as to avoid detection. Tyrol's eventual reveal was after we'd effectively lost the game: there were a dozen raiders closing in on our last 4 civilian ships, with our jump counter sitting at 2.
My point is, the humans had this game in the bag. We minimized the roles of the cylons about as much as I could possibly imagine. And we still couldn't overcome the sympathizer.
Is there a variant out there that requires more than 8 distance, but adjusts the resources higher? It seems like making the game longer would inherently deepen the strategy and intensity of the game.
Another tiny problem is that a 6-player game with Boomer and Gaius already uses all the human cards. EDIT: Though I suppose you could just use the sympathizer card as a human card. Nevermind.
Also, I'd like to mention that that game was probably the first and only time I'll ever be given orders by Admiral Baltar in a 6-player game.
6:00 PM PST, 16 February 2009 (That's tomorrow).
A 6 player game will be held over AIM, IRC, Ventrillo, or any combination thereof. The rules will be vanilla Battlestar Galactica except the sympathizer card will be replaced with 1 additional cylon and you are not a cylon card.
If you want to reserve a spot, just say so in this thread with some bold cyan action. But if you do so, make sure you come! Otherwise, players will be selected on a first come, first serve basis.
Tentatively yes, pending the specific method of play.
Anyways, you're going to add the bonus "Cylon/Human" cards at the same time you would normally add the sympathizer card?
Yep, apparently people really don't like the Sympathizer mechanic.
I think this is kinda funny since that's actually better for the cylons than the sympathizer role. This "bonus" cylon would still get a super crisis, have access to all the cylon locations and not be immediately revealed.
Given some of the recent issues it seems like an odd fix.
play anyway! I promise to read all your lines in an adama voice
I'm good for AIM and Vent (assuming my mic still works... it's been a while). I've never used scriblink.. is it pretty self-explanatory?
EDIT: Since I've got a slot for Hylian's game, I'm willing to sit out tomorrow if someone else wants in!
Also, now that the epic game has wrapped up I'll likely wait a day or two before starting one. A fair few people have expressed interest and there are a couple of spots set aside, so I'll have to work that out shortly.
Actually, I think we'll use Dabbleboard unless someone finds something better.
Either way. You seem to be full up, so I'd like to play the role of peanut gallery. :P
I would sign up as a player so you could all mock my NZ accent, but, alas, I don't think they have a mic here i could use...
Edit: I may just go with a forum post that I (or a player) edit(s) every turn. Updating a graphic board would probably take longer to do.
But see, if I turned out to be a Cylon, the irony would be so great that it might collapse the universe.