I already use my 360 as a TV watching device via Media Center
True... but the way IPTV will make it happen is much more seamless. DVR right on the hard drive, better guide usage... no dedicated media center PC to make it happen.
Sure... and the big draw to IPTV is that most every program is 'on demand'. Honestly we don't know enough about the services that will be offered to understand how much the hard drive will be used... if at all.
The whole idea behind IPTV is that you are streaming content... so there's really no reason to use a DVR anymore.
What was i thinking...of course that's the case. Thanks for enlightening me, you just blew my mind!
I could buy a 360 right now today for the same price as a Wii.
Holy hell where do you live? I wouldve biked 20 miles for that kind of deal.
As for HDD space. Really, when are you EVER going to need more than 120 gig anyways. 120 is a lot.
There must be a reason they are offering the ability to have it. And I have like 4gigs worth of space left on mine. . .certainly I can drop the demos and music, but then I thought that was the point of the HDD in the first place.
The 100 bucks for wireless is nonsense. I said F'that and just have two routers set up.
They just don't get it. This version of the 360 will do absolutely nothing to spur uptake of the system by the mass market. It will appeal strictly the the hardest of the hardcore who haven't yet bought one yet, which is a damned narrow demographic.
Whoever said this is right on the money. On the face of it, this move is downright nuts. The original $400 SKU for the 360 managed to prove that the mass market will pay a bit more than the previous $300 ceiling. The PS3's slow sales have shown that any price above that will annoy the mass market. Besides, the bigger hard drive and HDMI support don't add THAT much to the manufacturing price... last I checked, the premium 360 was making upwards of an $80 profit per box sold. In other words, the company could have still sold this at $400 and likely broke even or made a slight profit and put the thumbscrews to the PS3. Instead, Microsoft is making the same king whopper bad move as Sony did.
Are they mad? Are they so baffled by the fact that their game machine is actually turning a profit this time around that they've gone overboard? Do they really think the bigger hard drive and HDMI can justify the near-PS3 price without a next-gen DVD player?
There's one scenario that makes sense in all this... if the Elite is indeed a "special edition," and the premium gets all this crap a few months down the line with no price hike. The theory being that Microsoft squeezes a lot of money out of enthusiasts, then returns to catering to the mass market. It's cynical and dirty, but it could work. But there's a catch... what if Joe Average, who expects game machines to have ONE price, thinks this move equals a price hike for all 360s? Will the mass market say "fuck this shit" and just get a Wii? It's a big risk.
No, you don't seem to grasp it. Wireless and HD penetration is steadily increasing, which means that a majority of people may very well want those things within the next year or so, and won't want to be charged through the nose for them.
I doubt that the vast majority of people will want those things within a year. Wireless, I'll give you, but in most instances, it's not that big of a problem to just run a wire from your router to your console. HD-DVD or Blu-Ray on the other hand, I don't see being that dominant anytime soon. Unless you have a really nice TV and a very visually intense movie, getting a regular DVD works just fine. Heck, even if someone just handed me a gigantic HDTV & a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player free of charge, I think I'd stick with regular DVDs for the time being since they tend to be noticeably cheaper.
HDMI? It's nice, but I couldn't tell the difference between 720p and 1080i on the XBox 360 so I doubt that 1080p would impress me on the system (most games are designed for 720p on the system if I'm not mistaken). I'm happy sticking with 720p for now.
I think it's been stated numerous times on this thread, but look at it and you will know the difference. I watch BD movies regularly now, and it takes a few minutes of adjusting to watch a regular DVD, especially with the way they display on an LCD. I will amend my comment though: not the majority of people, but the majority of people in the market for a new console.
But there's a catch... what if Joe Average, who expects game machines to have ONE price, thinks this move equals a price hike for all 360s? Will the mass market say "fuck this shit" and just get a Wii? It's a big risk.
My gut reaction when I see a system over $300 is . My gut reaction when I see a system over $450 is to recoil with horror and nausea. That is the price I associate with computer upgrades.
Will the mass market say "fuck this shit" and just get a Wii? It's a big risk.
Yes. Yes yes yes. With every bone in my body I want the answer to be yes.
lack of HD makes it 'no'
It's not like 480p looks bad. You'd think that you guys saw a 480p picture and couldn't make anything out through all the static because the rabbit ears weren't adjusted properly.
I play Wii on a 51" widescreen TV, and Wii and GameCube games look gorgeous in 480p.
Could they look better in 1080i? Probably, but my point is that we're at a point where the difference in picture quality, although noticeable, isn't the same jump as from, say, an RF converter to an S-Video cable.
jclast on
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Will the mass market say "fuck this shit" and just get a Wii? It's a big risk.
Yes. Yes yes yes. With every bone in my body I want the answer to be yes.
lack of HD makes it 'no'
It's not like 480p looks bad. You'd think that you guys saw a 480p picture and couldn't make anything out through all the static because the rabbit ears weren't adjusted properly.
I play Wii on a 51" widescreen TV, and Wii and GameCube games look gorgeous in 480p.
Could they look better in 1080i? Probably, but my point is that we're at a point where the difference in picture quality, although noticeable, isn't the same jump as from, say, an RF converter to an S-Video cable.
Will the mass market say "fuck this shit" and just get a Wii? It's a big risk.
Yes. Yes yes yes. With every bone in my body I want the answer to be yes.
lack of HD makes it 'no'
It's not like 480p looks bad. You'd think that you guys saw a 480p picture and couldn't make anything out through all the static because the rabbit ears weren't adjusted properly.
I play Wii on a 51" widescreen TV, and Wii and GameCube games look gorgeous in 480p.
Could they look better in 1080i? Probably, but my point is that we're at a point where the difference in picture quality, although noticeable, isn't the same jump as from, say, an RF converter to an S-Video cable.
the key phrase was "mass market"
You mean the mass market (EDIT: in the U.S.) that bought nearly 300,000 PS2s in February, according to the NPD figures?
Fairly dedicated gamers would weigh the cost/benefits of buying an HD-capable console, but the mass market is a whole different beast.
In this case it does. The new 360 is a different model than the two existing models, therefore it gets a new SKU. To refer to it as such doesn't mean we don't understand the difference.
In this case it does. The new 360 is a different model than the two existing models, therefore it gets a new SKU. To refer to it as such doesn't mean we don't understand the difference.
It gets a new, different SKU from any retailer selling it, or any warehouser moving it. It is a model, it is much better to call it that. SKU just sounds stupid.
I already use my 360 as a TV watching device via Media Center
True... but the way IPTV will make it happen is much more seamless. DVR right on the hard drive, better guide usage... no dedicated media center PC to make it happen.
Sure... and the big draw to IPTV is that most every program is 'on demand'. Honestly we don't know enough about the services that will be offered to understand how much the hard drive will be used... if at all.
The whole idea behind IPTV is that you are streaming content... so there's really no reason to use a DVR anymore.
What was i thinking...of course that's the case. Thanks for enlightening me, you just blew my mind!
Not entirely true; IPTV also has live content, which means you need a local drive to store your timeshifts.
NFL films will not let IPTV providers hold on demand copies of the football games without charging them $texas for the rights.
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
It has a different price, different SKU, different name... so what are you arguing here? That it's actually the same model as the premium? Yeah, no.
No, call it 'model' not SKU. That's all I'm saying. I've noticed it a ton in news blogs, it is annoying as hell.
Why does it matter? They're different models and different SKUs. Being a different model necessitates the use of a different SKU from the two existing models.
The $100($120 here in canada) wireless is absolutely stupid. My room, which is where my 360 would live if I had one, is literally as far away as possible from the internet connection in the house. there is no way I'm running about 60 feet of cable to my room, not when I already have 2pc's and a Wii all on wireless already. I do want to buy a 360 eventually, and I'll have to buy the wireless adapter, even if it's stupidly over priced.
Also, as for why they're going to charge more for the black version, Apple really started this trend with the black Macbook. the black paint obviously costs $100 more.
Also, as for why they're going to charge more for the black version, Apple really started this trend with the black Macbook. the black paint obviously costs $100 more.
Are you trying to claim that Apple started "black electronics?"
Vegan on
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
The $100($120 here in canada) wireless is absolutely stupid. My room, which is where my 360 would live if I had one, is literally as far away as possible from the internet connection in the house. there is no way I'm running about 60 feet of cable to my room, not when I already have 2pc's and a Wii all on wireless already. I do want to buy a 360 eventually, and I'll have to buy the wireless adapter, even if it's stupidly over priced.
Also, as for why they're going to charge more for the black version, Apple really started this trend with the black Macbook. the black paint obviously costs $100 more.
I wasn't going to mention that unless people started bitching about black costing more and it being "teh evil Micro$oft" ruining the industry or some nonsense.
But we as gamers have proven that we will rebuy consoles for a different color / skin, and we will spend 10-20 bucks more for a fancy case that holds our game. This is unfortunately more of the same, as we will all have the option of getting this console in white soon for standard price.
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
The $100($120 here in canada) wireless is absolutely stupid. My room, which is where my 360 would live if I had one, is literally as far away as possible from the internet connection in the house. there is no way I'm running about 60 feet of cable to my room, not when I already have 2pc's and a Wii all on wireless already. I do want to buy a 360 eventually, and I'll have to buy the wireless adapter, even if it's stupidly over priced.
Also, as for why they're going to charge more for the black version, Apple really started this trend with the black Macbook. the black paint obviously costs $100 more.
I wasn't going to mention that unless people started bitching about black costing more and it being "teh evil Micro$oft" ruining the industry or some nonsense.
But we as gamers have proven that we will rebuy consoles for a different color / skin, and we will spend 10-20 bucks more for a fancy case that holds our game. This is unfortunately more of the same, as we will all have the option of getting this console in white soon for standard price.
Yep.
I just wonder if it'll do any damage to the brand in the eyes of casual gamers in the meantime. But we'll see.
I think it was a mistake to release a model at a higher price point than the original console. If they had to put out an Elite version they should have made it $400 following a price drop on the original versions. But I very highly doubt that "casual gamers" are going to be so terribly offended at this that they'll refuse to ever buy the console.
It has a different price, different SKU, different name... so what are you arguing here? That it's actually the same model as the premium? Yeah, no.
No, call it 'model' not SKU. That's all I'm saying. I've noticed it a ton in news blogs, it is annoying as hell.
Why does it matter? They're different models and different SKUs. Being a different model necessitates the use of a different SKU from the two existing models.
Because a SKU is a # you assign a product, it is not a physical thing.
It has a different price, different SKU, different name... so what are you arguing here? That it's actually the same model as the premium? Yeah, no.
No, call it 'model' not SKU. That's all I'm saying. I've noticed it a ton in news blogs, it is annoying as hell.
Why does it matter? They're different models and different SKUs. Being a different model necessitates the use of a different SKU from the two existing models.
Because a SKU is a # you assign a product, it is not a physical thing.
And the number is unique to the product (at a certain store or warehouse).
We're arguing in circles. You don't like the term, but that doesn't make its use inappropriate.
It has a different price, different SKU, different name... so what are you arguing here? That it's actually the same model as the premium? Yeah, no.
No, call it 'model' not SKU. That's all I'm saying. I've noticed it a ton in news blogs, it is annoying as hell.
Why does it matter? They're different models and different SKUs. Being a different model necessitates the use of a different SKU from the two existing models.
Because a SKU is a # you assign a product, it is not a physical thing.
And the number is unique to the product (at a certain store or warehouse).
We're arguing in circles. You don't like the term, but that doesn't make its use inappropriate.
I'm just saying using that term instead of 'model' makes the writer sound dumb, is all. As dumb as saying "new XBOX UPC coming out this April".
It has a different price, different SKU, different name... so what are you arguing here? That it's actually the same model as the premium? Yeah, no.
No, call it 'model' not SKU. That's all I'm saying. I've noticed it a ton in news blogs, it is annoying as hell.
Why does it matter? They're different models and different SKUs. Being a different model necessitates the use of a different SKU from the two existing models.
Because a SKU is a # you assign a product, it is not a physical thing.
And the number is unique to the product (at a certain store or warehouse).
We're arguing in circles. You don't like the term, but that doesn't make its use inappropriate.
I'm just saying using that term instead of 'model' makes the writer sound dumb, is all. As dumb as saying "new XBOX UPC coming out this April".
Actually, trying to get people to call it something different because it annoys you when, in fact, there is no discernable problem with calling it a SKU makes you sound dumb. Assess the situation.
Also, as for why they're going to charge more for the black version, Apple really started this trend with the black Macbook. the black paint obviously costs $100 more.
Are you trying to claim that Apple started "black electronics?"
No, but he's saying that the treand of charging more for it started with Apple.
I just accidentally paid $300 more for a Sony XBR3 1080p television because I thought that it was the successor to the XBR2. Nope. It's just the black version of the same TV. FUCK SONY. The silver "XBR2" actually has replaceable faceplates though they made sure that you can only buy flat-black instead of Piano ("gloss") black. Don't want those XBR3 buyers to lose their status symbol to some guy who wanted to pay for a $300 faceplate instead of a $300 more expensive TV.
Luckily, they screwed up my 12% discount (gave me 7%) and my set has the cloudy-backlight problem that some 46-inchers have, so I'm going to try to get this set right with the 52" XBR2.
I already use my 360 as a TV watching device via Media Center
True... but the way IPTV will make it happen is much more seamless. DVR right on the hard drive, better guide usage... no dedicated media center PC to make it happen.
Sure... and the big draw to IPTV is that most every program is 'on demand'. Honestly we don't know enough about the services that will be offered to understand how much the hard drive will be used... if at all.
The whole idea behind IPTV is that you are streaming content... so there's really no reason to use a DVR anymore.
What was i thinking...of course that's the case. Thanks for enlightening me, you just blew my mind!
Not entirely true; IPTV also has live content, which means you need a local drive to store your timeshifts.
NFL films will not let IPTV providers hold on demand copies of the football games without charging them $texas for the rights.
OK then...at the end of the day will this local drive be my 360?
Well, I'm gonna have to keep an eye on this. When they come out, I'm totally trading up. I have a second wave xb360, so its not perfect. It doesn't turn on right away a lot of the time
Could easily be an April Fools joke, but if it turns out to be legit it should be seen as nothing less than a direct threat to the PS3. Sony and 360 fanboys alike should be able to agree on at least that simple fact.
KNYTE on
The best defense is a good offense.
"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms, history shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own fall"
- Adolf Hitler, Edict of March 18, 1938.
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
Could easily be an April Fools joke, but if it turns out to be legit it should be seen as nothing less than a direct threat to the PS3. Sony and 360 fanboys alike should be able to agree on at least that simple fact.
It's interesting that Engadget "confirms" the black 360, after Game Informer confirmed it...
As further evidence, our emails received at work that we are not taking pre-orders on the black system just yet, but waiting for allocations from Microsoft...
Posts
What was i thinking...of course that's the case. Thanks for enlightening me, you just blew my mind!
Holy hell where do you live? I wouldve biked 20 miles for that kind of deal.
There must be a reason they are offering the ability to have it. And I have like 4gigs worth of space left on mine. . .certainly I can drop the demos and music, but then I thought that was the point of the HDD in the first place.
The 100 bucks for wireless is nonsense. I said F'that and just have two routers set up.
Whoever said this is right on the money. On the face of it, this move is downright nuts. The original $400 SKU for the 360 managed to prove that the mass market will pay a bit more than the previous $300 ceiling. The PS3's slow sales have shown that any price above that will annoy the mass market. Besides, the bigger hard drive and HDMI support don't add THAT much to the manufacturing price... last I checked, the premium 360 was making upwards of an $80 profit per box sold. In other words, the company could have still sold this at $400 and likely broke even or made a slight profit and put the thumbscrews to the PS3. Instead, Microsoft is making the same king whopper bad move as Sony did.
Are they mad? Are they so baffled by the fact that their game machine is actually turning a profit this time around that they've gone overboard? Do they really think the bigger hard drive and HDMI can justify the near-PS3 price without a next-gen DVD player?
There's one scenario that makes sense in all this... if the Elite is indeed a "special edition," and the premium gets all this crap a few months down the line with no price hike. The theory being that Microsoft squeezes a lot of money out of enthusiasts, then returns to catering to the mass market. It's cynical and dirty, but it could work. But there's a catch... what if Joe Average, who expects game machines to have ONE price, thinks this move equals a price hike for all 360s? Will the mass market say "fuck this shit" and just get a Wii? It's a big risk.
I think it's been stated numerous times on this thread, but look at it and you will know the difference. I watch BD movies regularly now, and it takes a few minutes of adjusting to watch a regular DVD, especially with the way they display on an LCD. I will amend my comment though: not the majority of people, but the majority of people in the market for a new console.
Yes. Yes yes yes. With every bone in my body I want the answer to be yes.
lack of HD makes it 'no'
It's not like 480p looks bad. You'd think that you guys saw a 480p picture and couldn't make anything out through all the static because the rabbit ears weren't adjusted properly.
I play Wii on a 51" widescreen TV, and Wii and GameCube games look gorgeous in 480p.
Could they look better in 1080i? Probably, but my point is that we're at a point where the difference in picture quality, although noticeable, isn't the same jump as from, say, an RF converter to an S-Video cable.
That isn't going to happen while the Wii doesn't have dick for software.
Fairly dedicated gamers would weigh the cost/benefits of buying an HD-capable console, but the mass market is a whole different beast.
In this case it does. The new 360 is a different model than the two existing models, therefore it gets a new SKU. To refer to it as such doesn't mean we don't understand the difference.
It gets a new, different SKU from any retailer selling it, or any warehouser moving it. It is a model, it is much better to call it that. SKU just sounds stupid.
Steam BoardGameGeek Twitter
No, call it 'model' not SKU. That's all I'm saying. I've noticed it a ton in news blogs, it is annoying as hell.
NFL films will not let IPTV providers hold on demand copies of the football games without charging them $texas for the rights.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Why does it matter? They're different models and different SKUs. Being a different model necessitates the use of a different SKU from the two existing models.
Also, as for why they're going to charge more for the black version, Apple really started this trend with the black Macbook. the black paint obviously costs $100 more.
Are you trying to claim that Apple started "black electronics?"
But we as gamers have proven that we will rebuy consoles for a different color / skin, and we will spend 10-20 bucks more for a fancy case that holds our game. This is unfortunately more of the same, as we will all have the option of getting this console in white soon for standard price.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Yep.
I just wonder if it'll do any damage to the brand in the eyes of casual gamers in the meantime. But we'll see.
Because a SKU is a # you assign a product, it is not a physical thing.
And the number is unique to the product (at a certain store or warehouse).
We're arguing in circles. You don't like the term, but that doesn't make its use inappropriate.
I'm just saying using that term instead of 'model' makes the writer sound dumb, is all. As dumb as saying "new XBOX UPC coming out this April".
The Wii sales are the very fucking definition of mass market.
Actually, trying to get people to call it something different because it annoys you when, in fact, there is no discernable problem with calling it a SKU makes you sound dumb. Assess the situation.
No, but he's saying that the treand of charging more for it started with Apple.
I just accidentally paid $300 more for a Sony XBR3 1080p television because I thought that it was the successor to the XBR2. Nope. It's just the black version of the same TV. FUCK SONY. The silver "XBR2" actually has replaceable faceplates though they made sure that you can only buy flat-black instead of Piano ("gloss") black. Don't want those XBR3 buyers to lose their status symbol to some guy who wanted to pay for a $300 faceplate instead of a $300 more expensive TV.
Luckily, they screwed up my 12% discount (gave me 7%) and my set has the cloudy-backlight problem that some 46-inchers have, so I'm going to try to get this set right with the 52" XBR2.
OK then...at the end of the day will this local drive be my 360?
"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms, history shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own fall"
- Adolf Hitler, Edict of March 18, 1938.
It's interesting that Engadget "confirms" the black 360, after Game Informer confirmed it...
As further evidence, our emails received at work that we are not taking pre-orders on the black system just yet, but waiting for allocations from Microsoft...
I'd never do such a thing. I've said nothing.
Who? No such person posts here!
If that is too long of a title for us to enter on our own, I move for a mod to make that threepio's title (assuming he would be ok with that title).
My trust in you is on the line, Threepio! Don't let us down!