Just turtle up and let the zerg come to you, or nonstop constant pressure. Hit those drones, if they have to remake drones they're not making units.
Like I would make a reaper or two, and send them straight to drones. Ignore the tech buildings, hit the drones.
Or, if you get blue flame hellions you can actually 1-2 shot larva as well as drones.
As a protoss we don't have the 2-3 ways to potentially completely destroy an entire worker line in a few seconds.
We have templar drops, which really aren't feasible at all before 3 base :P.
And phoenixes are nice for mutas, but they are also completely useless unless the zerg commits to mutas is the main problem with starport tech. Delays robo or templar tech which you really really need.
Phoenixes are pretty much always useful against zerg. Picking off queens and OLs, forcing static defenses, lifting roaches and hydras during close fights...
kedinik on
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Yes, but the zerg has committed resources to do the harass as well, which delays his tech to his main army. He is spending 200 gas on spire, then 100 on each muta, and probably 5 mutas, so he spends 700/700. How much is 1 star and 2 pheonix comparatively? Not to mention you can do OL hunting with them as well, and probably some scouting if needed.
scout more. deny new expansions, when you see he's teching to muties, expand yourself or put pressure on. It's just the same as other races except there is purple gobbly gook everywhere. Prodigious use of forcefields. Sure zerg has muties but toss has giant balls of stalker/colossi/forcefieldin with zealotsss.
couple of photon cannons wrecks 5 muties, couple more wrecks even more muties-- pretty solid investment if you ask me. 200 mins to protect against all your probes dying. When he gets 30 muties, well you're fucked cause you let him spend 3k gas and minerals on 30 muties while you turtled in your base.
A few cannons in the mineral line is good as well, like 2 maybe. They keep the Mutas targeting the cannons instead of squishy drones until you can blink up there with your main force.
When Z gets that critical mutaball, pull cord, hair and have a stiff drink.
And scouting against a zerg is almost impossible without flying units, speedlings and speedling runbys are really good at sniping lone units/taking advantage of a push.
It's mostly my multitasking that needs work honestly. And I've barely played the game for a week, I really need some motivation to ladder at the moment.
Chen, it's a combination of roach range+1, which was a huge buff. And terrans getting their entire early game shut down. The toss thing is just zergs learning to play .
Well really this is why Reapers shouldn't have gotten nerfed that bad and roaches getting their range buff. It's like "welp, I can't reliably hit his economy now may as well fast tech to hellions and hope he doesn't send roaches to my main by then."
And scouting against a zerg is almost impossible without flying units, speedlings and speedling runbys are really good at sniping lone units/taking advantage of a push.
Yeah. You can no longer keep your scouting Probe alive for a significant period of time in PvZ as you could in BW. The instant lings pop, you have to leave his base due to the creep speed bonus. You can't really get back in again until you have an Observer which requires you to go Robo, or Hallucination (which is not inexpensive at 100/100 (and 2 Forcefields' worth of energy) and has to wait until after Warpgate tech). Previously it was then smart to open Stargate for the scouting and anti-Muta and harrassment, but now that'll often get you smashed by Roaches.
After the 5 second nerf we barely ever saw reapers anyway. The next one was just for 2s, which a completely stupid reason to change anything.
Hell, hatch first is pretty much standard now as far as I see, there is just no way to punish a zerg who does that majorly as long as he playes defensively.
Roach range helps, but the real difference maker versus Terran is depot before barracks. Zerg's all but guaranteed to hold their FE and Terran players haven't had time to develop new openers in response.
Dunno what to say about Protoss, aside from ZvP seems pretty balanced to me. Who was that Protoss player that went FE into 2-gate phoenix last week? It demolished a strong zerg player.
kedinik on
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Roach range helps, but the real difference maker versus Terran is depot before barracks. Zerg's all but guaranteed to hold their FE and Terran players haven't had time to develop new openers in response.
Dunno what to say about protoss, aside from ZvP seems pretty balanced to me. Who was that protoss player that went FE into 2-gate phoenix last week? It demolished a strong zerg player.
Sangho. Babybyebye is the name this season I think.
And it seemed to me he was just way way better than his opponent. He did show some amazing phoenix play though, whenever I do it they just mass hydras and they die for me .
And yeah, the TvZ imbalance was all about early game. And terran has a lot of work to do to pretty much make new openers.
Didn't FruitDealer dominate his way thourgh the last GSL finale before the roach/depot-patch? I think he did but I'm not sure. Can anyone verify this?
Anyway. The roach range doesn't really effect the game, loads of players were going roach heavy long before. And the reaper rush was a 2 week fad that MorroW started in Köln.
People are just learning to use the Zerg better.
Ed: Oh, I misread. I though you were referring to depots making reapers slower, not giving better timing for FEs.
toss and terran can't complain about scouting. ever. you have observers and scans and walloffs to prevent others from walking in the front of your base.
toss and terran can't complain about scouting. ever. you have observers and scans and walloffs to prevent others from walking in the front of your base.
It doesn't change that Observers come much later than scan and Protoss takes the longest to kill off a scout.
Well I really think mech is the best way to go against Z. Hellions counter hydras and lings so bad while Thors and siege tanks lollerstomp armored units. And you should have a starport with reactors and maybe one with a tech lab for ravens/banshees.
Terrans have to throw away money for scans, observers arrive late and get shut down by a few well placed detectors, zerg scouting usually consists of suicide overlords.
kedinik on
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Seeker missiles are pretty good splash damage. Use that against those zerg balls. It's like psi storm with a little less range but it's ok cause ravens can fly above your army.
Terrans have to throw away money for scans, observers arrive late and get shut down by a few well placed detectors, zerg scouting usually consists of suicide overlords.
Nah, Zerg scouting still sucks balls. Overlords are insanely slow and cost a lot to upgrade and build. Observers are cloaked and scans are scans. I just love observers compared to OLs.
That's not scouting, that's map control. That's a completely different discussion, and one where zergs with thems creeps and floaty-sacks are definitely at an advantage.
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As a protoss we don't have the 2-3 ways to potentially completely destroy an entire worker line in a few seconds.
We have templar drops, which really aren't feasible at all before 3 base :P.
And phoenixes are nice for mutas, but they are also completely useless unless the zerg commits to mutas is the main problem with starport tech. Delays robo or templar tech which you really really need.
It's not that Warp Prisms are bad, there's just nothing worth using them with.
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e: Damn, broodlords.
e2: Vindication!
couple of photon cannons wrecks 5 muties, couple more wrecks even more muties-- pretty solid investment if you ask me. 200 mins to protect against all your probes dying. When he gets 30 muties, well you're fucked cause you let him spend 3k gas and minerals on 30 muties while you turtled in your base.
B.net: Kusanku
When Z gets that critical mutaball, pull cord, hair and have a stiff drink.
And scouting against a zerg is almost impossible without flying units, speedlings and speedling runbys are really good at sniping lone units/taking advantage of a push.
It's mostly my multitasking that needs work honestly. And I've barely played the game for a week, I really need some motivation to ladder at the moment.
Chen, it's a combination of roach range+1, which was a huge buff. And terrans getting their entire early game shut down. The toss thing is just zergs learning to play
"Ahhhhhhhh!!! Zerg is so UP it's not even funny y'all!!!" - Zerg players
*1+ Roach range*
*clowns everyone*
EDIT:^ I think you can also thank fruitdealer honestly. "What!!?!?!? A Zerg player won GSL?! That can't be... Zerg is underpowered..."
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:P
Hell, hatch first is pretty much standard now as far as I see, there is just no way to punish a zerg who does that majorly as long as he playes defensively.
Dunno what to say about Protoss, aside from ZvP seems pretty balanced to me. Who was that Protoss player that went FE into 2-gate phoenix last week? It demolished a strong zerg player.
Sangho. Babybyebye is the name this season I think.
And it seemed to me he was just way way better than his opponent. He did show some amazing phoenix play though, whenever I do it they just mass hydras and they die for me
And yeah, the TvZ imbalance was all about early game. And terran has a lot of work to do to pretty much make new openers.
Anyway. The roach range doesn't really effect the game, loads of players were going roach heavy long before. And the reaper rush was a 2 week fad that MorroW started in Köln.
People are just learning to use the Zerg better.
Ed: Oh, I misread. I though you were referring to depots making reapers slower, not giving better timing for FEs.
Like, he 6-pooled a protoss that he had trouble beating in straight up games, and the protoss barely lost when he scouted the wrong direction.
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only thing is that zerg gets unstoppable, which is cool
we got rockit black guys and bansheez
he's got a banshee
so he's WINNING IN THE WORKER COUNT
B.net: Kusanku
edit: and Observers force Protoss to get a Robo
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THAT BANELING TRAP
Terrans have to throw away money for scans, observers arrive late and get shut down by a few well placed detectors, zerg scouting usually consists of suicide overlords.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-EQM9PDVDA
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Nah, Zerg scouting still sucks balls. Overlords are insanely slow and cost a lot to upgrade and build. Observers are cloaked and scans are scans. I just love observers compared to OLs.
I dun wanna hear it!
edit:
Zerglings: Nature's Banshee
"Terious has to be going 'oh no I haven't killed his army twice'"