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[Mass Effect] FemShep Trailer Released. USE SPOILER TAGS

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Posts

  • LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    Kainy wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    FightTest wrote:
    I hope none of you are ever in charge of saving every bit of life in the galaxy from giant apocalyptic robots. "Well yeah they're going to exterminate everyone, but the only guy really trying to stop them is such a dickhead! Fuck it I hate that guy screw potential technology that could be used to save EVERYTHING."

    Worst heroes ever.

    Just because it took almost the entire fleet of the Council and Alliance combined to barely kill one Reaper doesn't mean we need their evil space technology to beat thousands of Reapers when they inevitably return :evil:

    You forget, we're operating in a Bioware world, where there are zero negative consequences for choosing any option in the upper half of the WHEEL OF DOING STUFF, ever, no matter how much it ought to make your life harder.

    I'd be lying if I said that Bioware not having the balls to punish Paragon actions in any way, ever, wasn't about 1/3 of my reason for obliterating the base.

    The other 2/3 is spite towards TIM because I was really sick of being railroaded into working with his stupid ass by the end of ME2.

    Man I knowwwwww. All my arguments have had the disclaimer that we're disregarding Videogame Plot Magic. It was mostly just a thought experiment about what the most practical option would be if someone were actually faced with this situation, not in a videogame.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    yeah I mean, obviously we know that what goes on in ME3 probably does not change radically based on our actions at the collector base. One assumes that cerberus
    comes up with the contagious husks anyway

    It's just kind of fun to talk about.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    accept your death, and become dangerous
  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    I also find it amusing that indoctrination is some kind of insurmountable barrier we have to give up the base in fear of, yet we are still expected to defeat the reapers who breathe indoctrination like secondhand smoke

    paBaVtZ.jpg
  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    -Tal wrote:
    I also find it amusing that indoctrination is some kind of insurmountable barrier we have to give up the base in fear of, yet we are still expected to defeat the reapers who breathe indoctrination like secondhand smoke

    We will be shooting them and spending a few hours at worst around them. Researching them would be hundreds of cumulative hours of exposure. Sort of like how breathing secondhand smoke once really isn't a big deal but constantly is cancerous, there is a difference in the scale. Plus we can shoot them from a distance they can't indoctrinate us from.

    Z0re on
  • KainyKainy Registered User regular
    Lemming wrote:
    Man I knowwwwww. All my arguments have had the disclaimer that we're disregarding Videogame Plot Magic. It was mostly just a thought experiment about what the most practical option would be if someone were actually faced with this situation, not in a videogame.

    Yeah, honestly I would probably choose "keep the base but GOOD GOD DON'T GIVE IT TO CERBERUS JESUS WHAT WERE YOU THINKING" in an actual situation where that were an option.

    Wish it were an option.

    IcyLiquid wrote: »
    There's anti-fuckery code in there now :) Sorry :)
  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Kainy wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    Man I knowwwwww. All my arguments have had the disclaimer that we're disregarding Videogame Plot Magic. It was mostly just a thought experiment about what the most practical option would be if someone were actually faced with this situation, not in a videogame.

    Yeah, honestly I would probably choose "keep the base but GOOD GOD DON'T GIVE IT TO CERBERUS JESUS WHAT WERE YOU THINKING" in an actual situation where that were an option.

    Wish it were an option.

    there is no way this could be an option

    Cerberus would get their hands on it one way or another, especially since they already have the IFF

    paBaVtZ.jpg
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    So is giving money
    are we considering shepard's decision in light of metagaming ME3, now?

    No, I'm considering the non-metagame knowledge that Cerberus is a bunch of fucking morons and their making dumb shit like this is entirely predictable based on their well-known history of making dumb shit like this. The fact that this infamous detail is later confirmed (again) doesn't make it impossible knowledge.

    But in terms of the base, here's a nice tidbit:
    It is later revealed that Cerberus had kept a colony of Adjutants within its research base at Avernus Station, but somehow they had broken free and were able to take control of the bases' transport ships and escape. Although the first wave of attackers was stopped, more lurked on the other side of the Omega 4 Relay, learning to control Cerberus' better-armed ships

    Contagious husk army that can fly their own high-tech ships. Lovely.

    Yeah, and they get that tech irregardless if you blow up the base or not.

    The damage has been done. Yes, Cerberus are tools, but keeping the base gives you options. And as many others have said, it's not like Shepard can't just blow up the base again. It has no point defenses, no mega death beams. It's dreadnought is wasted, it's crew is dead. And the only 'husks' you'll be fighting are made from Cerberus personel which is a double win.

  • LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote:
    Kainy wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    Man I knowwwwww. All my arguments have had the disclaimer that we're disregarding Videogame Plot Magic. It was mostly just a thought experiment about what the most practical option would be if someone were actually faced with this situation, not in a videogame.

    Yeah, honestly I would probably choose "keep the base but GOOD GOD DON'T GIVE IT TO CERBERUS JESUS WHAT WERE YOU THINKING" in an actual situation where that were an option.

    Wish it were an option.

    there is no way this could be an option

    Cerberus would get their hands on it one way or another, especially since they already have the IFF

    Cerberus can't exactly stand up to the Alliance in a straight up fight. If they wanted it, there's no way Cerberus could actually stop them.

  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Good news everyone!

    (no it's actually good news.)
    Mass Effect fans have been asking for a comment on recent concerns over Mass Effect: Deception. We have been listening and have the below response on the issue.

    The teams at Del Rey and BioWare would like to extend our sincerest apologies to the Mass Effect fans for any errors and oversights made in the recent novel Mass Effect: Deception. We are currently working on a number of changes that will appear in future editions of the novel.

    We would like to thank all Mass Effect fans for their passion and dedication to this ever-growing world, and assure them that we are listening and taking this matter very seriously.

  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Lemming wrote:
    -Tal wrote:
    Kainy wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    Man I knowwwwww. All my arguments have had the disclaimer that we're disregarding Videogame Plot Magic. It was mostly just a thought experiment about what the most practical option would be if someone were actually faced with this situation, not in a videogame.

    Yeah, honestly I would probably choose "keep the base but GOOD GOD DON'T GIVE IT TO CERBERUS JESUS WHAT WERE YOU THINKING" in an actual situation where that were an option.

    Wish it were an option.

    there is no way this could be an option

    Cerberus would get their hands on it one way or another, especially since they already have the IFF

    Cerberus can't exactly stand up to the Alliance in a straight up fight. If they wanted it, there's no way Cerberus could actually stop them.

    The Council and the Alliance are scared of even going into the Termius systems which is why they were useless in ME1, I mean Omega is right there

    paBaVtZ.jpg
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    Good news everyone!

    (no it's actually good news.)
    Mass Effect fans have been asking for a comment on recent concerns over Mass Effect: Deception. We have been listening and have the below response on the issue.

    The teams at Del Rey and BioWare would like to extend our sincerest apologies to the Mass Effect fans for any errors and oversights made in the recent novel Mass Effect: Deception. We are currently working on a number of changes that will appear in future editions of the novel.

    We would like to thank all Mass Effect fans for their passion and dedication to this ever-growing world, and assure them that we are listening and taking this matter very seriously.
    i'd really like to know how those revisions would work

    i feel like you're getting into theseus' ship territory at that point

  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    Lemming wrote:
    -Tal wrote:
    Kainy wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    Man I knowwwwww. All my arguments have had the disclaimer that we're disregarding Videogame Plot Magic. It was mostly just a thought experiment about what the most practical option would be if someone were actually faced with this situation, not in a videogame.

    Yeah, honestly I would probably choose "keep the base but GOOD GOD DON'T GIVE IT TO CERBERUS JESUS WHAT WERE YOU THINKING" in an actual situation where that were an option.

    Wish it were an option.

    there is no way this could be an option

    Cerberus would get their hands on it one way or another, especially since they already have the IFF

    Cerberus can't exactly stand up to the Alliance in a straight up fight. If they wanted it, there's no way Cerberus could actually stop them.

    Except Cerberus' size is almost literally 'undefined' because they seem to be able to materialize armies at will.

  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Good news everyone!

    (no it's actually good news.)
    Mass Effect fans have been asking for a comment on recent concerns over Mass Effect: Deception. We have been listening and have the below response on the issue.

    The teams at Del Rey and BioWare would like to extend our sincerest apologies to the Mass Effect fans for any errors and oversights made in the recent novel Mass Effect: Deception. We are currently working on a number of changes that will appear in future editions of the novel.

    We would like to thank all Mass Effect fans for their passion and dedication to this ever-growing world, and assure them that we are listening and taking this matter very seriously.

    lmao at changing the novel

    you can do that for some minor errors, but most of them are fundamental things like Gillian suddenly growing out of autism and a batarian slave ship successfully attacking Palaven

    paBaVtZ.jpg
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Yeah, it's still a crappy novel but at least they admit it's a crappy novel.

    That's good.

  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Master of the House of Lust Registered User regular
    I'm reasonably impressed that Bioware is willing to acknowledge the flaws at all.

  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    Kainy wrote:
    You forget, we're operating in a Bioware world, where there are zero negative consequences for choosing any option in the upper half of the WHEEL OF DOING STUFF, ever, no matter how much it ought to make your life harder.

    I'd be lying if I said that Bioware not having the balls to punish Paragon actions in any way, ever, wasn't about 1/3 of my reason for obliterating the base.
    Killing Elnora is the right thing to do, killing the batarians who capture Mordin's assistant make the dialog afterwards more sensible, killing Fist makes him not show up later, keeping what's-his-face's wife's body means more Alliance recruitment. It does happen.

  • Gandalf_the_CrazedGandalf_the_Crazed Vigilo ConfidoRegistered User regular
    Oh gods now I'm watching all these trailers why am I doing this to myself fffffffffuuuuuu

    PEUsig_zps56da03ec.jpg
  • KainyKainy Registered User regular
    Kainy wrote:
    You forget, we're operating in a Bioware world, where there are zero negative consequences for choosing any option in the upper half of the WHEEL OF DOING STUFF, ever, no matter how much it ought to make your life harder.

    I'd be lying if I said that Bioware not having the balls to punish Paragon actions in any way, ever, wasn't about 1/3 of my reason for obliterating the base.
    Killing Elnora is the right thing to do, killing the batarians who capture Mordin's assistant make the dialog afterwards more sensible, killing Fist makes him not show up later, keeping what's-his-face's wife's body means more Alliance recruitment. It does happen.

    I mean major, gameplay- or ending-impacting consequences. Paragon choices do affect the events that come afterwards, but never negatively in a meaningful way that I can think of.

    One thing that annoys me about Bioware's style (albeit not that much) is that you can be under the gun to save the whole universe, but you still have plenty of time to save every kitten up every tree you see. I don't really see the time pressure to undertake the Suicide Mission as a counterpoint to this, because you can still save every kitten, you just have to do it before an arbitrary cutoff point.

    I've noticed the same thing, moreso, in TOR. Storylines will be all "WOAH WE GOTTA DO THIS ULTRA-IMPORTANT GALACTIC SCALE SHIT RIGHT NOW" and then there is no difference in outcome whether you help Jumblenuts the Stupid save his family photos from ten different areas on the planet, taking hours of extra time, or if you tell him to fuck off because you have actual, important Jedi business to attend to. I realize that from a gameplay perspective that you don't want to attach timers to every little thing, or even most things, but I've only come across a single quest that even has a timer attached to it, and it doesn't even make sense for it to be there.

    IcyLiquid wrote: »
    There's anti-fuckery code in there now :) Sorry :)
  • AchireAchire Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    One solution to that would be a Fallout style time limit on the main quest. Not a lot of people liked that, though. Coincidentally there hasn't been a time limit in any of the sequels. Or time limits on all quests like in Daggerfall.

    Achire on
  • BookerBooker Registered User regular
    The most hardcore option would put Shepard in a race with the collectors. Every mission you complete gives the collectors more time to harvest humans to feed into the Reaper Larvae which would determine its health in the boss fight. Then they would have to institute a 10 minute timer for that fight, which would force you to balance your preparation for the suicide mission with your attempt of the suicide mission, since the Reapers health could hypothetically grow too high to kill it within those ten minutes.

    Also, during the main game, you would be given news reports of each colony that went missing, to try to encourage the player to open the Omega relay to save the colonists. Some of the Normandy's crew talk about the different colonies, but it is easy to miss if you don't look for those discussions. Oh, and if you choose to save the base and don't kill the Reaper in time, you receive a critical mission failure. Destroying the base and failing to kill it results in a dead Shepard and a complete mission.

    w6e2s1xm.png
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Z0re wrote:
    -Tal wrote:
    I also find it amusing that indoctrination is some kind of insurmountable barrier we have to give up the base in fear of, yet we are still expected to defeat the reapers who breathe indoctrination like secondhand smoke

    We will be shooting them and spending a few hours at worst around them. Researching them would be hundreds of cumulative hours of exposure. Sort of like how breathing secondhand smoke once really isn't a big deal but constantly is cancerous, there is a difference in the scale. Plus we can shoot them from a distance they can't indoctrinate us from.

    You don't get it though. Clearly, a 3 hour excursion, tops, at the Collector Base with maybe 20 engineering students would get you the greatest multi-use anti-Reaper naval weapon. It's basically just sitting there, waiting to be mounted on a metric-standard case mate somewhere on the SR2 or a similarly sized ship.

    Developing a weapon--or for that matter, reverse-engineering existing technology for construction tools used to build it, or analyzing schematics for a particular section of a Reaper and applying them to an entire fleet of thousands of vessels doesn't take months. Or weeks. Or days.

    Minutes, really. Since the Collectors had to know, just in case, how to obliterate a Reaper themselves, they probably have a large, readily-available document with a giant magic marker red circle around a particular node, and a post it reading "SHOOT HERE TO KILL THE REAPER." Obviously they have no security concerns, so they wouldn't need to hide it. And since they're only building the small, fleshy core, and not the gigantic metal warship body that would dwarf the size of their base and be beyond their manpower constraints, they would naturally know the complete nature of a mature Reaper in its entirety, since they were so well-trusted by the Reaper collective and such high-minded free thinkers. They have to be intuitive! Take initiative! Think outside the revolutionary paradigm! Reapers count on that kind of thinking.

    Indoctrination? That's a problem for people conducting experiments or trying to learn things. Not anyone who might be on the Collector Base to find the magic bullet. 8->

    (Tal's not wrong about everything--controlling the IFF themselves, Cerberus would never willingly let anyone else into the Collector Base, and would fight them to the death to get it back. Or really anything, this is Cerberus. They probably fight people to the death for the nicer booths at fast food restaurants.)

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Synthesis, your sarcasm makes me wet.

    evilthecat wrote: »
    "Bioware I want to suck on your teets of gamingness".

    The 2012 issue of Fornax. | Steam and Origin: Espressosaurus
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Indoctrination is something that happens to NPCs.

    Shepard had his mind fucked over by a Reaper artifact at point blank range, and it didn't do jack.

    Yes yes, Shepard is a god and all. He's still human in his will.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    If you keep the station, the entirety of ME3 is Shepard hunched over a computer terminal, going through about two billion encrypted technical schematics, readouts and memos, reading glasses in one hand and abacus in the other.

    Periodically taking a break to shoot various Reaper slaves--Geth, the various husks, Cerberus, etc. Or if you're a vanguard, charge them.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote:
    Z0re wrote:
    -Tal wrote:
    I also find it amusing that indoctrination is some kind of insurmountable barrier we have to give up the base in fear of, yet we are still expected to defeat the reapers who breathe indoctrination like secondhand smoke

    We will be shooting them and spending a few hours at worst around them. Researching them would be hundreds of cumulative hours of exposure. Sort of like how breathing secondhand smoke once really isn't a big deal but constantly is cancerous, there is a difference in the scale. Plus we can shoot them from a distance they can't indoctrinate us from.

    You don't get it though. Clearly, a 3 hour excursion, tops, at the Collector Base with maybe 20 engineering students would get you the greatest multi-use anti-Reaper naval weapon. It's basically just sitting there, waiting to be mounted on a metric-standard case mate somewhere on the SR2 or a similarly sized ship.

    Developing a weapon--or for that matter, reverse-engineering existing technology for construction tools used to build it, or analyzing schematics for a particular section of a Reaper and applying them to an entire fleet of thousands of vessels doesn't take months. Or weeks. Or days.

    Minutes, really. Since the Collectors had to know, just in case, how to obliterate a Reaper themselves, they probably have a large, readily-available document with a giant magic marker red circle around a particular node, and a post it reading "SHOOT HERE TO KILL THE REAPER." Obviously they have no security concerns, so they wouldn't need to hide it. And since they're only building the small, fleshy core, and not the gigantic metal warship body that would dwarf the size of their base and be beyond their manpower constraints, they would naturally know the complete nature of a mature Reaper in its entirety, since they were so well-trusted by the Reaper collective and such high-minded free thinkers. They have to be intuitive! Take initiative! Think outside the revolutionary paradigm! Reapers count on that kind of thinking.

    Indoctrination? That's a problem for people conducting experiments or trying to learn things. Not anyone who might be on the Collector Base to find the magic bullet. 8->

    (Tal's not wrong about everything--controlling the IFF themselves, Cerberus would never willingly let anyone else into the Collector Base, and would fight them to the death to get it back. Or really anything, this is Cerberus. They probably fight people to the death for the nicer booths at fast food restaurants.)

    What biting sarcasm! What wit!

    Tell me again, since you keep dodging the question: how do you propose the Council races and humanity are supposed to fight against the Reapers, considering there are thousands of them and it took a large part of the Council fleet and the majority of the Alliance fleet to barely kill a single Reaper? 8->

  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    Lemming wrote:
    Synthesis wrote:
    Z0re wrote:
    -Tal wrote:
    I also find it amusing that indoctrination is some kind of insurmountable barrier we have to give up the base in fear of, yet we are still expected to defeat the reapers who breathe indoctrination like secondhand smoke

    We will be shooting them and spending a few hours at worst around them. Researching them would be hundreds of cumulative hours of exposure. Sort of like how breathing secondhand smoke once really isn't a big deal but constantly is cancerous, there is a difference in the scale. Plus we can shoot them from a distance they can't indoctrinate us from.

    You don't get it though. Clearly, a 3 hour excursion, tops, at the Collector Base with maybe 20 engineering students would get you the greatest multi-use anti-Reaper naval weapon. It's basically just sitting there, waiting to be mounted on a metric-standard case mate somewhere on the SR2 or a similarly sized ship.

    Developing a weapon--or for that matter, reverse-engineering existing technology for construction tools used to build it, or analyzing schematics for a particular section of a Reaper and applying them to an entire fleet of thousands of vessels doesn't take months. Or weeks. Or days.

    Minutes, really. Since the Collectors had to know, just in case, how to obliterate a Reaper themselves, they probably have a large, readily-available document with a giant magic marker red circle around a particular node, and a post it reading "SHOOT HERE TO KILL THE REAPER." Obviously they have no security concerns, so they wouldn't need to hide it. And since they're only building the small, fleshy core, and not the gigantic metal warship body that would dwarf the size of their base and be beyond their manpower constraints, they would naturally know the complete nature of a mature Reaper in its entirety, since they were so well-trusted by the Reaper collective and such high-minded free thinkers. They have to be intuitive! Take initiative! Think outside the revolutionary paradigm! Reapers count on that kind of thinking.

    Indoctrination? That's a problem for people conducting experiments or trying to learn things. Not anyone who might be on the Collector Base to find the magic bullet. 8->

    (Tal's not wrong about everything--controlling the IFF themselves, Cerberus would never willingly let anyone else into the Collector Base, and would fight them to the death to get it back. Or really anything, this is Cerberus. They probably fight people to the death for the nicer booths at fast food restaurants.)

    What biting sarcasm! What wit!

    Tell me again, since you keep dodging the question: how do you propose the Council races and humanity are supposed to fight against the Reapers, considering there are thousands of them and it took a large part of the Council fleet and the majority of the Alliance fleet to barely kill a single Reaper? 8->

    Obviously we send waves of our own men at them until the Reapers hit their built-in kill limit.

    Alternatively we blow up the Mass Relays in the systems they invade to buy us time to fit Thanix cannons on every ship. Also build forge worlds. It'll take decades or centuries if the Reapers have to slowboat their way through space, and if we could kill one before...

  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Edit: screw you too forum button.

    manwiththemachinegun on
  • Gandalf_the_CrazedGandalf_the_Crazed Vigilo ConfidoRegistered User regular
    Well, looking at the trailers, apparently the solution is
    lure them all to Tuchanka, summon the Thresher Maw, and grab some popcorn.

    PEUsig_zps56da03ec.jpg
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Sovereign was a Reaper dreadnought remember (everyone always asumes Reapers are the same size).

    The vast majority of the fleet we've seen thus far are much, much smaller. Frigate sized.

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.

    Also, holy shit. Someone recognized the series. Synthesis, I think I'm in love with you.

    Since you are familiar with the series, have you seen anything else with a similar scale, decent characters, good music, and (usually) non-wtf plots? Because I need something as good and NeoBSG is over (plus it didn't have quite the same scale).

    evilthecat wrote: »
    "Bioware I want to suck on your teets of gamingness".

    The 2012 issue of Fornax. | Steam and Origin: Espressosaurus
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Lemming wrote:
    Synthesis wrote:
    Z0re wrote:
    -Tal wrote:
    I also find it amusing that indoctrination is some kind of insurmountable barrier we have to give up the base in fear of, yet we are still expected to defeat the reapers who breathe indoctrination like secondhand smoke

    We will be shooting them and spending a few hours at worst around them. Researching them would be hundreds of cumulative hours of exposure. Sort of like how breathing secondhand smoke once really isn't a big deal but constantly is cancerous, there is a difference in the scale. Plus we can shoot them from a distance they can't indoctrinate us from.

    You don't get it though. Clearly, a 3 hour excursion, tops, at the Collector Base with maybe 20 engineering students would get you the greatest multi-use anti-Reaper naval weapon. It's basically just sitting there, waiting to be mounted on a metric-standard case mate somewhere on the SR2 or a similarly sized ship.

    Developing a weapon--or for that matter, reverse-engineering existing technology for construction tools used to build it, or analyzing schematics for a particular section of a Reaper and applying them to an entire fleet of thousands of vessels doesn't take months. Or weeks. Or days.

    Minutes, really. Since the Collectors had to know, just in case, how to obliterate a Reaper themselves, they probably have a large, readily-available document with a giant magic marker red circle around a particular node, and a post it reading "SHOOT HERE TO KILL THE REAPER." Obviously they have no security concerns, so they wouldn't need to hide it. And since they're only building the small, fleshy core, and not the gigantic metal warship body that would dwarf the size of their base and be beyond their manpower constraints, they would naturally know the complete nature of a mature Reaper in its entirety, since they were so well-trusted by the Reaper collective and such high-minded free thinkers. They have to be intuitive! Take initiative! Think outside the revolutionary paradigm! Reapers count on that kind of thinking.

    Indoctrination? That's a problem for people conducting experiments or trying to learn things. Not anyone who might be on the Collector Base to find the magic bullet. 8->

    (Tal's not wrong about everything--controlling the IFF themselves, Cerberus would never willingly let anyone else into the Collector Base, and would fight them to the death to get it back. Or really anything, this is Cerberus. They probably fight people to the death for the nicer booths at fast food restaurants.)

    What biting sarcasm! What wit!

    Tell me again, since you keep dodging the question: how do you propose the Council races and humanity are supposed to fight against the Reapers, considering there are thousands of them and it took a large part of the Council fleet and the majority of the Alliance fleet to barely kill a single Reaper? 8->

    The same way I already said: rely on the Reaper's demonstrated weaknesses (overconfidence, outdated planning, willingness to divert resources to particular targets of their hatred), and the way everyone else already said: continue to ongoing process of learning about Reapers without sending them people the galaxy's brightest minds to become the next Reaper brain-trust. That actually brings up a third major part: don't fucking supply the Reapers with a galaxy's worth of human intelligence like in ME1 by doing just that.

    Inadvertently, you'll probably have to deal with the Reapers' wide array of mindless or just flat-out incredibly stupid lackeys (stupid enough get indoctrinated like this, or cooperate for the hell of it) on whom they have always been largely dependent since they began the most recent operation. Flat-out stupid, like Cerberus, will probably be more harmful to them then beneficial. If the Reapers could just waltz in and kill everyone, they wouldn't need an unending wave of sentient slaves to assist their operation--they clearly do, and it's their own answer to overcome the serious disadvantages of being an entire species of armored warships.

    Z0re summed it up well: the best naval weapon developed through physical Reaper investigation was found through a wreck. The best electronic warfare option against the Reapers was found from a Prothean answering machine. Would you care to explain how you'd get around the fact that every long-term research sent on an intact Reaper construct has not only been indoctrinated, but co-opted into the Reaper cause (Saren, Benezia, Cerberus, the Arrival team)? Or why the Collector Base has to be intact (and thus, at the strongest level of indoctrination it can exert) to be of any use whatsoever?
    Orca wrote:
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.

    Also, holy shit. Someone recognized the series. Synthesis, I think I'm in love with you.

    Since you are familiar with the series, have you seen anything else with a similar scale, decent characters, good music, and (usually) non-wtf plots? Because I need something as good and NeoBSG is over (plus it didn't have quite the same scale).

    Am I the only one who's ever commented on your avatar? I'm shocked if I am, it was on in North America after all (a bad dub, but the point stands).

    It's hard to say--especially when the bar was set particularly high with the second series. Honestly, I'd go with Gundam 08 MS TEAM of you haven't seen it--it's so radically different in theme, and not really Space Opera so much as Full Metal Jacket with Gundams, but once it clears an awkward setup episode or two, does become brutally unforgiving and realistic for such a show.

    EDIT: Also, totally sigging that.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    Z0re wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    Synthesis wrote:
    Z0re wrote:
    -Tal wrote:
    I also find it amusing that indoctrination is some kind of insurmountable barrier we have to give up the base in fear of, yet we are still expected to defeat the reapers who breathe indoctrination like secondhand smoke

    We will be shooting them and spending a few hours at worst around them. Researching them would be hundreds of cumulative hours of exposure. Sort of like how breathing secondhand smoke once really isn't a big deal but constantly is cancerous, there is a difference in the scale. Plus we can shoot them from a distance they can't indoctrinate us from.

    You don't get it though. Clearly, a 3 hour excursion, tops, at the Collector Base with maybe 20 engineering students would get you the greatest multi-use anti-Reaper naval weapon. It's basically just sitting there, waiting to be mounted on a metric-standard case mate somewhere on the SR2 or a similarly sized ship.

    Developing a weapon--or for that matter, reverse-engineering existing technology for construction tools used to build it, or analyzing schematics for a particular section of a Reaper and applying them to an entire fleet of thousands of vessels doesn't take months. Or weeks. Or days.

    Minutes, really. Since the Collectors had to know, just in case, how to obliterate a Reaper themselves, they probably have a large, readily-available document with a giant magic marker red circle around a particular node, and a post it reading "SHOOT HERE TO KILL THE REAPER." Obviously they have no security concerns, so they wouldn't need to hide it. And since they're only building the small, fleshy core, and not the gigantic metal warship body that would dwarf the size of their base and be beyond their manpower constraints, they would naturally know the complete nature of a mature Reaper in its entirety, since they were so well-trusted by the Reaper collective and such high-minded free thinkers. They have to be intuitive! Take initiative! Think outside the revolutionary paradigm! Reapers count on that kind of thinking.

    Indoctrination? That's a problem for people conducting experiments or trying to learn things. Not anyone who might be on the Collector Base to find the magic bullet. 8->

    (Tal's not wrong about everything--controlling the IFF themselves, Cerberus would never willingly let anyone else into the Collector Base, and would fight them to the death to get it back. Or really anything, this is Cerberus. They probably fight people to the death for the nicer booths at fast food restaurants.)

    What biting sarcasm! What wit!

    Tell me again, since you keep dodging the question: how do you propose the Council races and humanity are supposed to fight against the Reapers, considering there are thousands of them and it took a large part of the Council fleet and the majority of the Alliance fleet to barely kill a single Reaper? 8->

    Obviously we send waves of our own men at them until the Reapers hit their built-in kill limit.

    Alternatively we blow up the Mass Relays in the systems they invade to buy us time to fit Thanix cannons on every ship. Also build forge worlds. It'll take decades or centuries if the Reapers have to slowboat their way through space, and if we could kill one before...

    Considering the fact that cutting everyone off from each other is exactly how the Reapers made it even easier to kill everyone else, destroying the relays and intentionally cutting everyone off from everyone else doesn't sound like a very good idea. Also considering that the Reapers seem to make it back from dark space pretty easily, I doubt it'd delay them much anyway.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Sovereign was a Reaper dreadnought remember (everyone always asumes Reapers are the same size).

    The vast majority of the fleet we've seen thus far are much, much smaller. Frigate sized.

    Is this something that's been hammered down? Because it's clear we know there are Reaper ships of other size, but whether these are picket ships or actually much of the fleet, with Sovereign being his usual bullshitter self as well as an exceptional vessel, wasn't clear I thought.

    It's easy to assume the Reaper armada is full of super-dreadnought warships, but we've already seen another Reaper vessel (of some form or function) going down to a Thresher Maw. Like a bitch.

    In which case, supply them with more human intelligence (via indoctrination), and thus, naval superiority through both intelligence and possible ships (Geth repeat) is basically their biggest hope to a galaxy that can no longer be caught unawares.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • Dox the PIDox the PI Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    So this is a thing
    http://blog.bioware.com/2012/02/03/alliancenewsnet1/
    From: Alliance News Network Information Partners

    August 24, 2186

    Leak questions geth role in Citadel battle

    By Amita Qasid



    VANCOUVER, EARTH – A leaked report has cast doubt on key facts in the Battle of the Citadel, backing up controversial claims by the long-marginalized “Citadel Conspiracy” movement.

    In the report, acquired by the free-information group TruthHax, a top-secret emergency defense committee admits that the powerful dreadnought at the center of the battle may not have been of geth construction.

    Key to the report is testimony by Commander Shepard, hero of the Alliance Navy and a decorated veteran. Shepard insists Saren Arterius’s flagship was actually one of many artificial intelligences separate from the geth and hostile to organic life.

    Shepard’s credibility has declined in recent years amid reports of abetting the human supremacist group Cerberus. But in the leaked document, the defense committee appears to treat the Commander’s claims as a genuine possibility.

    Shepard could not be reached for comment, having been relieved of duty by the committee.

    Prime Minister Shastri was confronted with questions about the report today at a routine press conference, but waved them off, saying only: “It’s a big galaxy. The geth are one of many threats we talk about, and rest assured, the Alliance will be prepared for whatever comes our way.”

    Amita Qasid is a political correspondent for ANN’s “Earth Standard” and a frequent contributor to ANN Magazine.

    Dox the PI on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Is that the follow up to the Cerberus Network? Interesting.

    Also.
    ...many artificial intelligences separate from the geth and hostile to organic life...

    I read this as "many kinds of artificial intelligences...". O.o

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    HEY YOU STUPID FUCKING ASSHOLES IT IS EVEN EXTERNALLY DISTINCT FROM THE GETH GODDAMIT SHIT FUCK STOP GETTING ME MAD AT A VIDEO GAME

    seriously though you know the Council is going to pass the whole invasion off as a geth army

    -Tal on
    paBaVtZ.jpg
  • Dox the PIDox the PI Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Synthesis wrote:
    Is that the follow up to the Cerberus Network? Interesting.
    Every Friday, beginning today, we'll be bringing you the latest coverage from the Alliance News Network on the state of the galaxy.

    Please find the first post here.

    I should go.

    Dox the PI on
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote:
    Am I the only one who's ever commented on your avatar? I'm shocked if I am, it was on in North America after all (a bad dub, but the point stands).

    Yep. I introduced everybody I know to it, but I haven't met anyone who knew of it before. Disappointing, considering what an amazing series it is. The sad part is that as awful as the dub is, the official translation is similarly bad (seriously, the water isn't for cooling, it's propellent you jackasses!).

    But the dub is halfway decent by the second series, and actually rivals the sub by the final one.

    Talk about your hard choices. I love that shit.
    Synthesis wrote:
    It's hard to say--especially when the bar was set particularly high with the second series. Honestly, I'd go with Gundam 08 MS TEAM of you haven't seen it--it's so radically different in theme, and not really Space Opera so much as Full Metal Jacket with Gundams, but once it clears an awkward setup episode or two, does become brutally unforgiving and realistic for such a show.

    I saw a few eps way back when it was on Cartoon Network. I guess I'll have to properly give it a go then.
    Synthesis wrote:
    EDIT: Also, totally sigging that.

    :D

    evilthecat wrote: »
    "Bioware I want to suck on your teets of gamingness".

    The 2012 issue of Fornax. | Steam and Origin: Espressosaurus
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Lemming wrote:
    Tell me again, since you keep dodging the question: how do you propose the Council races and humanity are supposed to fight against the Reapers, considering there are thousands of them and it took a large part of the Council fleet and the majority of the Alliance fleet to barely kill a single Reaper? 8->

    I just wanted to comment on this part since I just finished replaying 1 to make a canon run on my PC and a lot of people keep saying it. It took a lot of the FIFTH fleet to defeat the Reapers. This implies that there are at least four other fleets. We can't even really say that it took a majority of that fleet, since we know the names of the ships that fell, but we have no idea of the sizes of those ships or the number of ships in the fifth fleet.

    Edit: Plus isn't it possible or even probable that of all the Reapers, Sovereign is probably the best or one of the best? I mean if he's the guy you're relying on to be the vanguard of destruction, you should probably make sure he's extra badass so he can kick ass if things go wrong.

    ChaosHat on
    ChaosHat.com - Twitter - Twitch Stream - Steam: ChaosHat - 3DS: 5215-0009-1949
    SC2: ChaosHat.444 ggtracker
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