Just had to jungle cho. I'm not a huge fan of doing that, but I don't really like any of the other jungles except lee sin and i'm just not good enough with him most of the time. The clear time isn't really fantastic, but god I love those ganks. Went 10/4/19 and barely missed a penta (ez or kat got the last hit). Also had to explain that stacking MR doesn't really help against feast after i nuked 70% of the carrie's hp in one hit.
He's definitely my favorite champ, are there any pro teams that use him with any regularity I can watch games of or is he not any good at high elo?
How are you building him? Cho is meant to have a really fast clear time, it's his ganks that are the iffy part of his jungling package.
Then again I tend to build Cho as an AD bruiser (with a Wit's End for good measure), so my experience with him might be a little odd.
Yeh, I was kindof wondering about how his clear time was low and was like... O_o
If you level his vorpal spikes (E) early, his clear time is insanely fast. I start boots/3red, when I'm positive that no invade is coming, I take E first, (W if there's an invade) start wraiths->blue->wolves->wraiths->red(smite should be back up)->mini's->gank. You really only need his Q before you start ganking (landing the Q is the hard part of a cho gank), and only need 1 point in W to stop a counter jungler.
But AD Bruiser? I prefer to play him AP Tank, so RoA, Rylai's, FH, Mercs are core. Slip in Doran's Rings in as needed, and possibly an abyssal for MR, finish with a GA or party hat. Boots 5 if you don't need the mercs.
My standard build on him is Merc Boots, Wit's End, Randuin's or Frozen Mallet, Force of Nature, Guardian Angel, Frozen Heart. That might be stretching the definition of "AD bruiser" a little bit, it's pretty much straight tank. It also sacrifices almost all of his damage, but he really does become almost unkillable and remains pretty good at peeling.
The way I build him, he's still pretty damn near unkillable but doesn't sac his damage as much. I don't understand the Mallet at all though, and would suggest a Rylai's instead if you're going to build him that way just to get some more damage on all your abilities. He's good at peeling/engage/dis-engage and you get a free 750 health if you feast right, no matter how you build him.
Your analysis assumes a turtle udyr. Maxing tiger first means he will kill you faster than you kill him. QWEQWQ will make sure you die first. Parry doesnt stop tiger proc or bear proc and he will have an innate attack speed superiority at low levels.
Also, since he is udyr, he only has to dominate you once. Then he's got you, barring jungle intervention.
Just had to jungle cho. I'm not a huge fan of doing that, but I don't really like any of the other jungles except lee sin and i'm just not good enough with him most of the time. The clear time isn't really fantastic, but god I love those ganks. Went 10/4/19 and barely missed a penta (ez or kat got the last hit). Also had to explain that stacking MR doesn't really help against feast after i nuked 70% of the carrie's hp in one hit.
He's definitely my favorite champ, are there any pro teams that use him with any regularity I can watch games of or is he not any good at high elo?
How are you building him? Cho is meant to have a really fast clear time, it's his ganks that are the iffy part of his jungling package.
Then again I tend to build Cho as an AD bruiser (with a Wit's End for good measure), so my experience with him might be a little odd.
I start regen pendant for philo, then get boots and start rod of ages. Then start to either stack ap if i can keep blue or get the glacial stone then start stacking ap. Usually rod and feast stacks are enough hp so i can just go for resists and ap stuff after that. Rupture does awesome damage with good ap, and feasting 1k health off something is just awesome for either penetrating a tanks resist or just gibbing squishies. Depending on how the game is going ill pick up lichbane lategame for extra giggles.
Your analysis assumes a turtle udyr. Maxing tiger first means he will kill you faster than you kill him. QWEQWQ will make sure you die first. Parry doesnt stop tiger proc or bear proc and he will have an innate attack speed superiority at low levels.
Also, since he is udyr, he only has to dominate you once. Then he's got you, barring jungle intervention.
Parry isn't about stopping an attack. I mean yeah woohoo that's great and all, but Parry is about adding to your burst damage and increasing your passive AD.
Tiger udyr lacks the defenses to survive my onslaught, and I get attack speed as well, the nice thing is that my attack speed lets me apply my absurd AD values more often.
Sure it's more dangerous than Turtle Udyr but he'll melt even faster. Additionally I'm in control of the engagements since I have the gap closer. I can jump in get my hits, take the couple hits from him and speed away to engage again when I feel like it. In those brief encounters I am mitigating enough of his auto attack damage and dealing enough burst that i'll still win out. Heck at lvl 4 I've got an additional 20 AD on every attack, 60% attack speed boost, movement sped boost and a double dash that would do 80 damage before calculating in bonus AD (of which my passive counts)
Plus when I jump in an burst him I get 4 stacks on my sustain passive, which means i'm healing back a good chunk of the damage I take.
I'm more concerned about turtle Udyr than Tiger in top lane with Fiora because if he plays very smart with his shield and auto attacks (making sure he doesn't proc my parry for example) he could survive long enough.
Ultimately though it doesn't matter because at 6 I dominate him completely with my ult, independent of Tiger or Turtle builds.
Delphinidaes on
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
0
Options
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
you can do stupid things like wits end triforce atma force of nature cho
IME, most matchups are determined by skill, so theorycrafting really should be for showing which ones likely wouldn't be. For example, to use my top top champ, Trynd, as much as people might say "if you do X, I'll do Y," in practice I've found Olaf, Ez, and Darius are the only champs who get free wins at equal / lower player skill.
Malphite, for example, has a good kit, and it sounds like he could win (I can harass with Q and mitigate damage with E!) but in practice equally good Malphs will tie and worse Malph players will lose to Trynd consistently.
Honestly, I probably lost my shit worse than that the first time I witnessed a penta from a guy on my team. Hell, it wasn't even me, I think it was Smaug?
Yes, I get all the penta kills. That was me on the korean server.
My first penta kill was with kogmaw, so cute just devouring people.
IME, most matchups are determined by skill, so theorycrafting really should be for showing which ones likely wouldn't be. For example, to use my top top champ, Trynd, as much as people might say "if you do X, I'll do Y," in practice I've found Olaf, Ez, and Darius are the only champs who get free wins at equal / lower player skill.
Malphite, for example, has a good kit, and it sounds like he could win (I can harass with Q and mitigate damage with E!) but in practice equally good Malphs will tie and worse Malph players will lose to Trynd consistently.
Skill is first and foremost in any matchup, absolutely. Any theorycrafting assumes equal skill for the purpose of comparing champions ability.
In this case though I'm giving my anecdotal experience on how I personally crush Udyrs. Now it could be that every udyr i've gone against has been bad, or that I'm an amazing Fiora (not likely) but I count Udyr as one of the champs I would pick Fiora into because I am confident in my ability to defeat him based on how Fiora works and how udyr works.
I think the biggest thing people do when playing Fiora is that they are not aggressive enough. You have to have faith in your ability to out damage your opponent at the early levels and use that to your advantage. You have to be confident enough to engage upon the enemy constantly and bully them out of the lane. If you try to play defensively or passively it will not be nearly as effective as when you take control of the lane and become the aggressor.
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
0
Options
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
there are some ways of playing some champions that negate a lot of opponent skill because you force them to act
Just when things seemed their bleakest, he encountered the monster. It was a disturbing, alien thing, distinctly out of place in his world. It bore huge scything claws and devoured any animal that strayed across its path.
Just when things seemed their bleakest, he encountered the monster. It was a disturbing, alien thing, distinctly out of place in his world. It bore huge scything claws and devoured any animal that strayed across its path.
Chogath, I assume
Or a hydralisk.
Probably Chogath
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
I want to build new Kat Gunblade/Trinity Force....
Does that make me a bad person?
Nope. That's how i've been building her. Although I don't typically finish the triforce. Rush revolver, get phage, sheen, finish gunblade, maybe a rylai's, eventually finish triforce. Rageblade is also fun because your W cooldown is less than the buff duration so you can keep it at 8 stacks.
Delphinidaes on
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Skill is first and foremost in any matchup, absolutely. Any theorycrafting assumes equal skill for the purpose of comparing champions ability.
In this case though I'm giving my anecdotal experience on how I personally crush Udyrs. Now it could be that every udyr i've gone against has been bad, or that I'm an amazing Fiora (not likely) but I count Udyr as one of the champs I would pick Fiora into because I am confident in my ability to defeat him based on how Fiora works and how udyr works.
I think the biggest thing people do when playing Fiora is that they are not aggressive enough. You have to have faith in your ability to out damage your opponent at the early levels and use that to your advantage. You have to be confident enough to engage upon the enemy constantly and bully them out of the lane. If you try to play defensively or passively it will not be nearly as effective as when you take control of the lane and become the aggressor.
Would you mind talking more about Fiora, Delph? I've been trying to learn more top lane champions and it would be nice to have a super aggressive one when I can't or shouldn't use my standby of Yorick. Is she a good pick against someone like Olaf, Lee Sin, Darius or some other tough bruisers? What do you do when facing a more harass oriented lane like Vlad or Kennen? I'm mainly looking for a champion to handle those tops which give my Yorick trouble which is basically people who can shrug off the harass or have enough gap closers and slows to chase him down and beat him. A champ who can beat udyr in a 1v1 fight sounds pretty attractive.
To quote myself in the other thread since I'm having trouble choosing.
Decisions, decisions. If I had to pick between Kat or Diana, who would I pick? Or do I skip both for now and wait on Rengar?
Delphin says Kat. Anyone else want to weigh in? I have about 7800 ip. I if I get kat I can get a 6300 in about 9 days. Yes, I go by free wins in bot games, because I'm not going to waste an hour in solo queue with some of the people I was getting stuck with lately.
No on the gunblade, yes on the Triforce. =P But really build her however you want.
I just got done with a ranked where our AP Janna just crushed their Morgana. Clearly a Morg who thinks she's free wins and doesn't know what the hell to actually do. Then our GP top crushed Mordekaiser. Then our bot lane I was Ezreal with Taric against Ashe/Sona. Let me tell you, you do not want to be Ashe/Sona against Ez/Taric. Sona is quite literally a free kill every time she's stunned. Stun, shatter, taric ult, and one WQ auto ignite from me and she was dead. I felt bad for their jungle amumu because we just lived in his jungle the whole game, and their team was raging so hard on him because all 3 lanes were losing and they of course blamed the jungle because that's always who you blame.
To quote myself sicne I'm having tourble choosing.
Decisions, decisions. If I had to pick between Kat or Diana, who would I pick? Or do I skip both for now and wait on Rengar?
Delphin says Kat. Anyone else want to weigh in? I have about 7800 rp. I if I get kat I can get a 6300 in about 9 days. Yes, I go by free wins in bot games, because I'm not going to waste an hour in solo queue with some of the people I was getting stuck with lately.
I'd wait. Diana is supposedly getting nerfed/adjusted and it's worth waiting to make sure they don't nerf her into the ground. Kat looks fun from the spotlight video but it's always a good idea to see what the community thinks of the rework rather than basing it off how much she stomped in the spotlight. I love manaless champs so Kat > Diana for me but I haven't really given Diana much of a chance or seen her used that much.
To quote myself sicne I'm having tourble choosing.
Decisions, decisions. If I had to pick between Kat or Diana, who would I pick? Or do I skip both for now and wait on Rengar?
Delphin says Kat. Anyone else want to weigh in? I have about 7800 rp. I if I get kat I can get a 6300 in about 9 days. Yes, I go by free wins in bot games, because I'm not going to waste an hour in solo queue with some of the people I was getting stuck with lately.
I have never played Kat but Diana is a truck load of awesome to play.
Skill is first and foremost in any matchup, absolutely. Any theorycrafting assumes equal skill for the purpose of comparing champions ability.
In this case though I'm giving my anecdotal experience on how I personally crush Udyrs. Now it could be that every udyr i've gone against has been bad, or that I'm an amazing Fiora (not likely) but I count Udyr as one of the champs I would pick Fiora into because I am confident in my ability to defeat him based on how Fiora works and how udyr works.
I think the biggest thing people do when playing Fiora is that they are not aggressive enough. You have to have faith in your ability to out damage your opponent at the early levels and use that to your advantage. You have to be confident enough to engage upon the enemy constantly and bully them out of the lane. If you try to play defensively or passively it will not be nearly as effective as when you take control of the lane and become the aggressor.
Would you mind talking more about Fiora, Delph? I've been trying to learn more top lane champions and it would be nice to have a super aggressive one when I can't or shouldn't use my standby of Yorick. Is she a good pick against someone like Olaf, Lee Sin, Darius or some other tough bruisers? What do you do when facing a more harass oriented lane like Vlad or Kennen? I'm mainly looking for a champion to handle those tops which give my Yorick trouble which is basically people who can shrug off the harass or have enough gap closers and slows to chase him down and beat him. A champ who can beat udyr in a 1v1 fight sounds pretty attractive.
Olaf is a straight up skill matchup. They are almost dead even, if either one gets ahead early that one will dominate the lane.
Lee Sin is pretty straight forward, just stick to him and you'll outdamage his sustain. May want an early tear into a manamune for the mana but if you run mana runes/masteries you shouldn't need it.
Vlad you absolutely dominate. Stick to him early and often. Bait out the pool with auto attacks when he is low, wait until he comes back up from it and ult him + ignite for the win. Don't be afraid to take hits from him as the last thing he wants is you beating his face in. Plus when you parry his auto attacks it hurts him much more than it hurts you. (Fun thing to do early against vlad is to dash on him, auto attack him and force the pool, then dash to him after he comes back up with your second dash.)
Haven't had the pleasure of fighting Darius as Fiora yet.
Shen you'll want to focus Parry primary and Dash secondary since you want to burst him in between his shields. Be careful it's a tough lane but your damage is high enough to win it. May want a manamune on this one as the manaless champ can outlast you some times.
Kennen is a tough one, you may have trouble with him
Avoid fighting Pantheon or Teemo as they will crush Fiora
Kayle is a skill matchup but if you are very aggressive you can win it, if you play defensively at all she'll roll over you.
Jax is a skill matchup, for god's sake don't ult him when his stun is up.
Malphite is a bit tough but your damage and attack speed should outlast his defenses. Be careful of his burst at 6 it's surprising.
Fuck Rumble.
Renekton can be tough as his burst is strong as well, i'd give that one as a skill matchup, same with Wukong for similar reasons.
Yorick is a tough one because his harass is strong, his defenses are strong, and his offense is strong when he's throwing out ghouls. You can beat him early, but he'll surpass you eventually unless you can zone him (you can't zone him)
Nasus is a joke, watch for constant jungle ganks as that's the only thing stopping you from running all over him. If they are running nasus top you can guarantee their jungler will be living in your lane. (you can parry nasus' Q, it's quite funny because you can almost always see it coming)
Haven't fought nunu top yet but I think Fiora could take him.
Riven probably beats Fiora because her burst and mobility are just as absurd as Fiora, I can't remember the last Riven I fought as Fiora though,
Delphinidaes on
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
No on the gunblade, yes on the Triforce. =P But really build her however you want.
I just got done with a ranked where our AP Janna just crushed their Morgana. Clearly a Morg who thinks she's free wins and doesn't know what the hell to actually do. Then our GP top crushed Mordekaiser. Then our bot lane I was Ezreal with Taric against Ashe/Sona. Let me tell you, you do not want to be Ashe/Sona against Ez/Taric. Sona is quite literally a free kill every time she's stunned. Stun, shatter, taric ult, and one WQ auto ignite from me and she was dead. I felt bad for their jungle amumu because we just lived in his jungle the whole game, and their team was raging so hard on him because all 3 lanes were losing and they of course blamed the jungle because that's always who you blame.
If you're bad.
Just a quick note on the reasoning for Triforce on Kat. Kat really wants Sheen for the burst, and her W and ult scale off AD. Plus you end up doing a fair bit of auto attacks with the total reduction in her abilities so the AD helps offset that. The low cooldown on W (4 seconds) means you are getting lots of sheen use, and unless you are going lichbane you want your sheen to turn into something.
The phage gives her AD, health and the slow which is nice but not entirely necessary. The AD and health is good though. I tried going the pure AP route on her but it didn't feel as solid as the Hybrid route at all. Granted this is just my opinion.
Oh an the zeal is good for the movespeed and to smooth out her attacks. I don't build it until I finish the triforce though typically, and I don't finish the triforce until late as the gunblade, rageblade, and rylai's are all before it. It's more of a "Well I have the phage and Sheen, I can build a triforce or lichbane/frozen mallet.
Lichbane/frozen mallet also works well so either way honestly is fine.
Delphinidaes on
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Janna will beat morg mid every time (insert usual disclaimer about player skill).
The issues with running janna mid is morg is far more scary in teamfights as a source of damage due to her ult, while janna's ult is just a knockback (yes the knockback is REALLY good i know) and she really has only 2 ap scaling damaging abilities, while morg has 3.
But who can say no to a 500 hp shield.
0
Options
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
To quote myself in the other thread since I'm having trouble choosing.
Decisions, decisions. If I had to pick between Kat or Diana, who would I pick? Or do I skip both for now and wait on Rengar?
Delphin says Kat. Anyone else want to weigh in? I have about 7800 ip. I if I get kat I can get a 6300 in about 9 days. Yes, I go by free wins in bot games, because I'm not going to waste an hour in solo queue with some of the people I was getting stuck with lately.
Don't worry Uber, I do a bot game (almost) every day for my first win. Same reason, don't want to waste an hour or two hoping not to get trolled or rolled. A nice relaxing 20 minute game against those cheatin' bots is much more pleasant (and you can do stupid things like ASpd Soraka).
It seems like 75% of the time I pick fiora in blind pick I get laned against a Teemo. Such an annoying match up.
I have more trouble with Olaf though, his Q+E damage is so high, it's scary to try to trade with him since he chunks you so much at the start of an exchange without needing to hit you with an AA. Any advice on how to "outskill" him?
Also how do you fight Fiora vs. Fiora? I took W first and got stomped on by a Fiora that just QQed me all day.
What do you say we take a relaxed attitude towards work and watch the baseball game? The nye Mets are my favorite squadron.
No on the gunblade, yes on the Triforce. =P But really build her however you want.
I just got done with a ranked where our AP Janna just crushed their Morgana. Clearly a Morg who thinks she's free wins and doesn't know what the hell to actually do. Then our GP top crushed Mordekaiser. Then our bot lane I was Ezreal with Taric against Ashe/Sona. Let me tell you, you do not want to be Ashe/Sona against Ez/Taric. Sona is quite literally a free kill every time she's stunned. Stun, shatter, taric ult, and one WQ auto ignite from me and she was dead. I felt bad for their jungle amumu because we just lived in his jungle the whole game, and their team was raging so hard on him because all 3 lanes were losing and they of course blamed the jungle because that's always who you blame.
If you're bad.
Just a quick note on the reasoning for Triforce on Kat. Kat really wants Sheen for the burst, and her W and ult scale off AD. Plus you end up doing a fair bit of auto attacks with the total reduction in her abilities so the AD helps offset that. The low cooldown on W (4 seconds) means you are getting lots of sheen use, and unless you are going lichbane you want your sheen to turn into something.
The phage gives her AD, health and the slow which is nice but not entirely necessary. The AD and health is good though. I tried going the pure AP route on her but it didn't feel as solid as the Hybrid route at all. Granted this is just my opinion.
Oh an the zeal is good for the movespeed and to smooth out her attacks. I don't build it until I finish the triforce though typically, and I don't finish the triforce until late as the gunblade, rageblade, and rylai's are all before it. It's more of a "Well I have the phage and Sheen, I can build a triforce or lichbane/frozen mallet.
Lichbane/frozen mallet also works well so either way honestly is fine.
This is good info, as i have been building her HEAVY Ap on the test servers and then i read the patch notes and did a double take on her Ad scaling on W and her Ulti.
Btw, building her pure AP is great for her qew burst, but her ulti just lacks any pop, and you have no real survivability.
No on the gunblade, yes on the Triforce. =P But really build her however you want.
I just got done with a ranked where our AP Janna just crushed their Morgana. Clearly a Morg who thinks she's free wins and doesn't know what the hell to actually do. Then our GP top crushed Mordekaiser. Then our bot lane I was Ezreal with Taric against Ashe/Sona. Let me tell you, you do not want to be Ashe/Sona against Ez/Taric. Sona is quite literally a free kill every time she's stunned. Stun, shatter, taric ult, and one WQ auto ignite from me and she was dead. I felt bad for their jungle amumu because we just lived in his jungle the whole game, and their team was raging so hard on him because all 3 lanes were losing and they of course blamed the jungle because that's always who you blame.
If you're bad.
Just a quick note on the reasoning for Triforce on Kat. Kat really wants Sheen for the burst, and her W and ult scale off AD. Plus you end up doing a fair bit of auto attacks with the total reduction in her abilities so the AD helps offset that. The low cooldown on W (4 seconds) means you are getting lots of sheen use, and unless you are going lichbane you want your sheen to turn into something.
The phage gives her AD, health and the slow which is nice but not entirely necessary. The AD and health is good though. I tried going the pure AP route on her but it didn't feel as solid as the Hybrid route at all. Granted this is just my opinion.
Oh an the zeal is good for the movespeed and to smooth out her attacks. I don't build it until I finish the triforce though typically, and I don't finish the triforce until late as the gunblade, rageblade, and rylai's are all before it. It's more of a "Well I have the phage and Sheen, I can build a triforce or lichbane/frozen mallet.
Lichbane/frozen mallet also works well so either way honestly is fine.
This is good info, as i have been building her HEAVY Ap on the test servers and then i read the patch notes and did a double take on her Ad scaling on W and her Ulti.
Btw, building her pure AP is great for her qew burst, but her ulti just lacks any pop, and you have no real survivability.
Exactly the problem I was running into. Having the survivability and the amazing AD scaling on the ult helps a bunch.
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
It seems like 75% of the time I pick fiora in blind pick I get laned against a Teemo. Such an annoying match up.
I have more trouble with Olaf though, his Q+E damage is so high, it's scary to try to trade with him since he chunks you so much at the start of an exchange without needing to hit you with an AA. Any advice on how to "outskill" him?
Also how do you fight Fiora vs. Fiora? I took W first and got stomped on by a Fiora that just QQed me all day.
Posts
The way I build him, he's still pretty damn near unkillable but doesn't sac his damage as much. I don't understand the Mallet at all though, and would suggest a Rylai's instead if you're going to build him that way just to get some more damage on all your abilities. He's good at peeling/engage/dis-engage and you get a free 750 health if you feast right, no matter how you build him.
Joe's Stream.
Not even related to Cho. If given the opportunity I will literally build it on almost anyone.
this made me feel bad
Your analysis assumes a turtle udyr. Maxing tiger first means he will kill you faster than you kill him. QWEQWQ will make sure you die first. Parry doesnt stop tiger proc or bear proc and he will have an innate attack speed superiority at low levels.
Also, since he is udyr, he only has to dominate you once. Then he's got you, barring jungle intervention.
When I have had bad experiences, it's usually been my own team rather than the other team giving me trouble.
Edit: Kat Champ relaunch spotlight:
I start regen pendant for philo, then get boots and start rod of ages. Then start to either stack ap if i can keep blue or get the glacial stone then start stacking ap. Usually rod and feast stacks are enough hp so i can just go for resists and ap stuff after that. Rupture does awesome damage with good ap, and feasting 1k health off something is just awesome for either penetrating a tanks resist or just gibbing squishies. Depending on how the game is going ill pick up lichbane lategame for extra giggles.
Parry isn't about stopping an attack. I mean yeah woohoo that's great and all, but Parry is about adding to your burst damage and increasing your passive AD.
Tiger udyr lacks the defenses to survive my onslaught, and I get attack speed as well, the nice thing is that my attack speed lets me apply my absurd AD values more often.
Sure it's more dangerous than Turtle Udyr but he'll melt even faster. Additionally I'm in control of the engagements since I have the gap closer. I can jump in get my hits, take the couple hits from him and speed away to engage again when I feel like it. In those brief encounters I am mitigating enough of his auto attack damage and dealing enough burst that i'll still win out. Heck at lvl 4 I've got an additional 20 AD on every attack, 60% attack speed boost, movement sped boost and a double dash that would do 80 damage before calculating in bonus AD (of which my passive counts)
Plus when I jump in an burst him I get 4 stacks on my sustain passive, which means i'm healing back a good chunk of the damage I take.
I'm more concerned about turtle Udyr than Tiger in top lane with Fiora because if he plays very smart with his shield and auto attacks (making sure he doesn't proc my parry for example) he could survive long enough.
Ultimately though it doesn't matter because at 6 I dominate him completely with my ult, independent of Tiger or Turtle builds.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
SPEEEEEEEEEEEED
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
this also made me feel sad
IME, most matchups are determined by skill, so theorycrafting really should be for showing which ones likely wouldn't be. For example, to use my top top champ, Trynd, as much as people might say "if you do X, I'll do Y," in practice I've found Olaf, Ez, and Darius are the only champs who get free wins at equal / lower player skill.
Malphite, for example, has a good kit, and it sounds like he could win (I can harass with Q and mitigate damage with E!) but in practice equally good Malphs will tie and worse Malph players will lose to Trynd consistently.
You can make gin & tonics or do tequila shots.
Yes, I get all the penta kills. That was me on the korean server.
My first penta kill was with kogmaw, so cute just devouring people.
Skill is first and foremost in any matchup, absolutely. Any theorycrafting assumes equal skill for the purpose of comparing champions ability.
In this case though I'm giving my anecdotal experience on how I personally crush Udyrs. Now it could be that every udyr i've gone against has been bad, or that I'm an amazing Fiora (not likely) but I count Udyr as one of the champs I would pick Fiora into because I am confident in my ability to defeat him based on how Fiora works and how udyr works.
I think the biggest thing people do when playing Fiora is that they are not aggressive enough. You have to have faith in your ability to out damage your opponent at the early levels and use that to your advantage. You have to be confident enough to engage upon the enemy constantly and bully them out of the lane. If you try to play defensively or passively it will not be nearly as effective as when you take control of the lane and become the aggressor.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Chogath, I assume
Or a hydralisk.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Does that make me a bad person?
Nope. That's how i've been building her. Although I don't typically finish the triforce. Rush revolver, get phage, sheen, finish gunblade, maybe a rylai's, eventually finish triforce. Rageblade is also fun because your W cooldown is less than the buff duration so you can keep it at 8 stacks.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Would you mind talking more about Fiora, Delph? I've been trying to learn more top lane champions and it would be nice to have a super aggressive one when I can't or shouldn't use my standby of Yorick. Is she a good pick against someone like Olaf, Lee Sin, Darius or some other tough bruisers? What do you do when facing a more harass oriented lane like Vlad or Kennen? I'm mainly looking for a champion to handle those tops which give my Yorick trouble which is basically people who can shrug off the harass or have enough gap closers and slows to chase him down and beat him. A champ who can beat udyr in a 1v1 fight sounds pretty attractive.
Delphin says Kat. Anyone else want to weigh in? I have about 7800 ip. I if I get kat I can get a 6300 in about 9 days. Yes, I go by free wins in bot games, because I'm not going to waste an hour in solo queue with some of the people I was getting stuck with lately.
I just got done with a ranked where our AP Janna just crushed their Morgana. Clearly a Morg who thinks she's free wins and doesn't know what the hell to actually do. Then our GP top crushed Mordekaiser. Then our bot lane I was Ezreal with Taric against Ashe/Sona. Let me tell you, you do not want to be Ashe/Sona against Ez/Taric. Sona is quite literally a free kill every time she's stunned. Stun, shatter, taric ult, and one WQ auto ignite from me and she was dead. I felt bad for their jungle amumu because we just lived in his jungle the whole game, and their team was raging so hard on him because all 3 lanes were losing and they of course blamed the jungle because that's always who you blame.
If you're bad.
I'd wait. Diana is supposedly getting nerfed/adjusted and it's worth waiting to make sure they don't nerf her into the ground. Kat looks fun from the spotlight video but it's always a good idea to see what the community thinks of the rework rather than basing it off how much she stomped in the spotlight. I love manaless champs so Kat > Diana for me but I haven't really given Diana much of a chance or seen her used that much.
I have never played Kat but Diana is a truck load of awesome to play.
Olaf is a straight up skill matchup. They are almost dead even, if either one gets ahead early that one will dominate the lane.
Lee Sin is pretty straight forward, just stick to him and you'll outdamage his sustain. May want an early tear into a manamune for the mana but if you run mana runes/masteries you shouldn't need it.
Vlad you absolutely dominate. Stick to him early and often. Bait out the pool with auto attacks when he is low, wait until he comes back up from it and ult him + ignite for the win. Don't be afraid to take hits from him as the last thing he wants is you beating his face in. Plus when you parry his auto attacks it hurts him much more than it hurts you. (Fun thing to do early against vlad is to dash on him, auto attack him and force the pool, then dash to him after he comes back up with your second dash.)
Haven't had the pleasure of fighting Darius as Fiora yet.
Shen you'll want to focus Parry primary and Dash secondary since you want to burst him in between his shields. Be careful it's a tough lane but your damage is high enough to win it. May want a manamune on this one as the manaless champ can outlast you some times.
Kennen is a tough one, you may have trouble with him
Avoid fighting Pantheon or Teemo as they will crush Fiora
Kayle is a skill matchup but if you are very aggressive you can win it, if you play defensively at all she'll roll over you.
Jax is a skill matchup, for god's sake don't ult him when his stun is up.
Malphite is a bit tough but your damage and attack speed should outlast his defenses. Be careful of his burst at 6 it's surprising.
Fuck Rumble.
Renekton can be tough as his burst is strong as well, i'd give that one as a skill matchup, same with Wukong for similar reasons.
Yorick is a tough one because his harass is strong, his defenses are strong, and his offense is strong when he's throwing out ghouls. You can beat him early, but he'll surpass you eventually unless you can zone him (you can't zone him)
Nasus is a joke, watch for constant jungle ganks as that's the only thing stopping you from running all over him. If they are running nasus top you can guarantee their jungler will be living in your lane. (you can parry nasus' Q, it's quite funny because you can almost always see it coming)
Haven't fought nunu top yet but I think Fiora could take him.
Riven probably beats Fiora because her burst and mobility are just as absurd as Fiora, I can't remember the last Riven I fought as Fiora though,
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Just a quick note on the reasoning for Triforce on Kat. Kat really wants Sheen for the burst, and her W and ult scale off AD. Plus you end up doing a fair bit of auto attacks with the total reduction in her abilities so the AD helps offset that. The low cooldown on W (4 seconds) means you are getting lots of sheen use, and unless you are going lichbane you want your sheen to turn into something.
The phage gives her AD, health and the slow which is nice but not entirely necessary. The AD and health is good though. I tried going the pure AP route on her but it didn't feel as solid as the Hybrid route at all. Granted this is just my opinion.
Oh an the zeal is good for the movespeed and to smooth out her attacks. I don't build it until I finish the triforce though typically, and I don't finish the triforce until late as the gunblade, rageblade, and rylai's are all before it. It's more of a "Well I have the phage and Sheen, I can build a triforce or lichbane/frozen mallet.
Lichbane/frozen mallet also works well so either way honestly is fine.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
The issues with running janna mid is morg is far more scary in teamfights as a source of damage due to her ult, while janna's ult is just a knockback (yes the knockback is REALLY good i know) and she really has only 2 ap scaling damaging abilities, while morg has 3.
But who can say no to a 500 hp shield.
run fast always scream never die!
Don't worry Uber, I do a bot game (almost) every day for my first win. Same reason, don't want to waste an hour or two hoping not to get trolled or rolled. A nice relaxing 20 minute game against those cheatin' bots is much more pleasant (and you can do stupid things like ASpd Soraka).
It seems like 75% of the time I pick fiora in blind pick I get laned against a Teemo. Such an annoying match up.
I have more trouble with Olaf though, his Q+E damage is so high, it's scary to try to trade with him since he chunks you so much at the start of an exchange without needing to hit you with an AA. Any advice on how to "outskill" him?
Also how do you fight Fiora vs. Fiora? I took W first and got stomped on by a Fiora that just QQed me all day.
This is good info, as i have been building her HEAVY Ap on the test servers and then i read the patch notes and did a double take on her Ad scaling on W and her Ulti.
Btw, building her pure AP is great for her qew burst, but her ulti just lacks any pop, and you have no real survivability.
Not tentative opinion: Lee sin is a shitty champ. Not darius level shitty, but pretty shitty.
Exactly the problem I was running into. Having the survivability and the amazing AD scaling on the ult helps a bunch.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Wriggles -> thornmail?
I'll have another go tomorrow.