yeah, SFKM has a habit of posting things, not necessarily with an intent to endorse, but to say "this is just how things are". We might wish they were not so, might say that it is wrong that they are so, and some might even work to change them... but for now at least, that's the stark, unpalatable reality.
Exactly. This is not a step towards fascism. It's just a public endorsement of things we already do. Saying he wants surveillance of mosques and to engage in quasi torture regardless of what the statistics say on its effectiveness in intelligence gathering is just continuing the status quo or rewinding things back a few years.
Don't you remember how insanely controversial torture was once the media learnt about Guantanamo etc? That wasn't quasi torture either. Many people in the intelligence community and the FBI were in the media and testified how bad it was for acquiring actionable intelligence and being an ethical black hole.
CBS's polling shows Trump with a healthy lead in first and Cruz pushing ahead of Carson for 2nd. Which spooks me out.
I'm amused that the top two candidates are an Hispanic and an openly anti-Hispanic racist.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Probably more accurately is that Trump is anti-immigrant and Cruz is the son of immigrants and also anti-immigrant.
And racists.
Trump also spent quite a while looking for a certain Birth Certificate.
And we know that Cruz was born in Canada (sure, he's perfectly eligible to run, but i still find this slightly amusing).
You know, I don't think there is anything more Trump than a monument to delusion.
"Okay, yeah, so that battle never happened. But it's certainly possible that something like that might have happened at some point in time, in, you know, the general vicinity."
Oh, Trump, you rascally pathological bullshitter!
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
CBS's polling shows Trump with a healthy lead in first and Cruz pushing ahead of Carson for 2nd. Which spooks me out.
I wouldn't get spooked yet. As Nate Silver argues, the polls are misleading. This far out, 65-80% of primary voters are still undecided. That puts Trump's likely "locked in" primary votes somewhere around 6-10%, not 30%. Plus, 30% of "likely republican primary voters" represents 6-8% of the total electorate.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
We see it with the Mainstream media all the time. They write stories that are factually inaccurate. They’re never held account. And I think in general the American people are tired of being told by the political elites and the media elites what they can and can’t do, what they can and can’t say. They’re tired of it and that’s why you saw last night in Columbus, Ohio 14,000 people came out to a Trump rally to hear it first hand from Mr. Trump about what really needs to be done to make America great, again.
So NPR, the New York Times and the Associated Press searched contemporaneous news accounts and could find no evidence of Muslim-Americans cheering in Jersey City. That’s odd. Because it took me less than two minutes to find this story from the Washington Post dated September 18, 2001 (although I did have to spend $3.95 to buy it from the Post’s archives)….
Mr. Trump has a unique ability to push back on reporters that I think so few other candidates for office will do … he’s done it so many times, that the reporters finally have to understand that they can’t overpower Donald Trump because he’s a leader.
0
Options
AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
CBS's polling shows Trump with a healthy lead in first and Cruz pushing ahead of Carson for 2nd. Which spooks me out.
I wouldn't get spooked yet. As Nate Silver argues, the polls are misleading. This far out, 65-80% of primary voters are still undecided. That puts Trump's likely "locked in" primary votes somewhere around 6-10%, not 30%. Plus, 30% of "likely republican primary voters" represents 6-8% of the total electorate.
He really should have continued and explained how much polls change during the later weeks, to quantify the predictive value of polls. From what I've seen polling isn't predictive yet but will be soon.
We see it with the Mainstream media all the time. They write stories that are factually inaccurate. They’re never held account. And I think in general the American people are tired of being told by the political elites and the media elites what they can and can’t do, what they can and can’t say. They’re tired of it and that’s why you saw last night in Columbus, Ohio 14,000 people came out to a Trump rally to hear it first hand from Mr. Trump about what really needs to be done to make America great, again.
So NPR, the New York Times and the Associated Press searched contemporaneous news accounts and could find no evidence of Muslim-Americans cheering in Jersey City. That’s odd. Because it took me less than two minutes to find this story from the Washington Post dated September 18, 2001 (although I did have to spend $3.95 to buy it from the Post’s archives)….
Mr. Trump has a unique ability to push back on reporters that I think so few other candidates for office will do … he’s done it so many times, that the reporters finally have to understand that they can’t overpower Donald Trump because he’s a leader.
Really
cause it took me less than 2 minutes (about 15 seconds) to find this article on Washington Post
Update: Some readers have tweeted to The Fact Checker a Washington Post article from Sept. 18, 2001, as evidence of Trump’s claim. The article, which appeared on page 6, described FBI probes in northern New Jersey after the attacks, saying in the 15th paragraph that “law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river.”
Of course, “a number of people” obviously does not equal “thousands” — and “allegedly” indicates there is no video footage or other proof that celebrations actually took place. Recall that Trump claimed he saw this on television — and that it was “well covered at the time.” This newspaper article appeared days later.
The reporters who wrote the story do not recall whether the allegations were ever confirmed. “I certainly do not remember anyone saying that thousands or even hundreds of people were celebrating,” said Serge Kovaleski, one of the reporters. “That was not the case, as best as I can remember.”
Fredrick Kunkle, the other reporter, added: “I specifically visited the Jersey City building and neighborhood where the celebrations were purported to have happened. But I could never verify that report.”
We see it with the Mainstream media all the time. They write stories that are factually inaccurate. They’re never held account. And I think in general the American people are tired of being told by the political elites and the media elites what they can and can’t do, what they can and can’t say. They’re tired of it and that’s why you saw last night in Columbus, Ohio 14,000 people came out to a Trump rally to hear it first hand from Mr. Trump about what really needs to be done to make America great, again.
So NPR, the New York Times and the Associated Press searched contemporaneous news accounts and could find no evidence of Muslim-Americans cheering in Jersey City. That’s odd. Because it took me less than two minutes to find this story from the Washington Post dated September 18, 2001 (although I did have to spend $3.95 to buy it from the Post’s archives)….
Mr. Trump has a unique ability to push back on reporters that I think so few other candidates for office will do … he’s done it so many times, that the reporters finally have to understand that they can’t overpower Donald Trump because he’s a leader.
Really
cause it took me less than 2 minutes (about 15 seconds) to find this article on Washington Post
Update: Some readers have tweeted to The Fact Checker a Washington Post article from Sept. 18, 2001, as evidence of Trump’s claim. The article, which appeared on page 6, described FBI probes in northern New Jersey after the attacks, saying in the 15th paragraph that “law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river.”
Of course, “a number of people” obviously does not equal “thousands” — and “allegedly” indicates there is no video footage or other proof that celebrations actually took place. Recall that Trump claimed he saw this on television — and that it was “well covered at the time.” This newspaper article appeared days later.
The reporters who wrote the story do not recall whether the allegations were ever confirmed. “I certainly do not remember anyone saying that thousands or even hundreds of people were celebrating,” said Serge Kovaleski, one of the reporters. “That was not the case, as best as I can remember.”
Fredrick Kunkle, the other reporter, added: “I specifically visited the Jersey City building and neighborhood where the celebrations were purported to have happened. But I could never verify that report.”
This does not offer a compelling refutation if you're looking for an excuse to believe Mr. Trump
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I too was in New Jersey on September 11, 2001. I was even in a place where actual Muslims worked. I never saw anybody celebrate the fall of the towers, and I remember hearing on the news reports about some people doing so that were debunked nearly instantly. I know it won't matter, but there isn't a shred of evidence that any such celebrations actually happened.
You know, I don't think there is anything more Trump than a monument to delusion.
"Okay, yeah, so that battle never happened. But it's certainly possible that something like that might have happened at some point in time, in, you know, the general vicinity."
Oh, Trump, you rascally pathological bullshitter!
Oh God the single comment:
Yeah, the best part about history is that you can just make shit up and then, BOOM, HISTORY!
I too was in New Jersey on September 11, 2001. I was even in a place where actual Muslims worked. I never saw anybody celebrate the fall of the towers, and I remember hearing on the news reports about some people doing so that were debunked nearly instantly. I know it won't matter, but there isn't a shred of evidence that any such celebrations actually happened.
IIRC Fox News ran footage of Muslims in a foreign country celebrating, except they "forgot" to mention it was from years before and they weren't celebrating America getting attacked.
We see it with the Mainstream media all the time. They write stories that are factually inaccurate. They’re never held account. And I think in general the American people are tired of being told by the political elites and the media elites what they can and can’t do, what they can and can’t say. They’re tired of it and that’s why you saw last night in Columbus, Ohio 14,000 people came out to a Trump rally to hear it first hand from Mr. Trump about what really needs to be done to make America great, again.
So NPR, the New York Times and the Associated Press searched contemporaneous news accounts and could find no evidence of Muslim-Americans cheering in Jersey City. That’s odd. Because it took me less than two minutes to find this story from the Washington Post dated September 18, 2001 (although I did have to spend $3.95 to buy it from the Post’s archives)….
Mr. Trump has a unique ability to push back on reporters that I think so few other candidates for office will do … he’s done it so many times, that the reporters finally have to understand that they can’t overpower Donald Trump because he’s a leader.
Really
cause it took me less than 2 minutes (about 15 seconds) to find this article on Washington Post
Update: Some readers have tweeted to The Fact Checker a Washington Post article from Sept. 18, 2001, as evidence of Trump’s claim. The article, which appeared on page 6, described FBI probes in northern New Jersey after the attacks, saying in the 15th paragraph that “law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river.”
Of course, “a number of people” obviously does not equal “thousands” — and “allegedly” indicates there is no video footage or other proof that celebrations actually took place. Recall that Trump claimed he saw this on television — and that it was “well covered at the time.” This newspaper article appeared days later.
The reporters who wrote the story do not recall whether the allegations were ever confirmed. “I certainly do not remember anyone saying that thousands or even hundreds of people were celebrating,” said Serge Kovaleski, one of the reporters. “That was not the case, as best as I can remember.”
Fredrick Kunkle, the other reporter, added: “I specifically visited the Jersey City building and neighborhood where the celebrations were purported to have happened. But I could never verify that report.”
This does not offer a compelling refutation if you're looking for an excuse to believe Mr. Trump
Maybe not, but that article factually does not say what the Trump spokesman says it does. The article is about the FBI investigating muslims in Northern New Jersey because that was where the 1993 attackers came from. Only in one short paragraph does it say they were investigating any reports of celebrating.
In Jersey City, within hours of two jetliners' plowing into the World Trade Center, law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river.
That's literally the entire quote that the article says about it.
I too was in New Jersey on September 11, 2001. I was even in a place where actual Muslims worked. I never saw anybody celebrate the fall of the towers, and I remember hearing on the news reports about some people doing so that were debunked nearly instantly. I know it won't matter, but there isn't a shred of evidence that any such celebrations actually happened.
The claim is so gobsmackingly stupid. I mean, maybe some local kids did it because lol local shithead kids who don't yet fully grasp certain things, but nobody even knew who was responsible for the attacks yet, including anyone who might've been a Wahhabi supporter in NJ.
Best set your watch, though. Now that this is a thing, it's only a matter of time before some opportunistic asshole cop 'comes forward' to back-up Mr. Trump's claim with his or her personal anecdote about how they were totally there and totally busted a huge ring of rooftop celebrations and all of the people celebrating were totally Muslim.
With Love and Courage
+1
Options
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
because that's what cops around here were concerned with that night
I was very glad yesterday an entire paper (I forget which, sorry) had its front page dedicated to shitting on this claim from trump
I never liked him but I didn't feel as much anger as I do now these last few months
I too was in New Jersey on September 11, 2001. I was even in a place where actual Muslims worked. I never saw anybody celebrate the fall of the towers, and I remember hearing on the news reports about some people doing so that were debunked nearly instantly. I know it won't matter, but there isn't a shred of evidence that any such celebrations actually happened.
IIRC Fox News ran footage of Muslims in a foreign country celebrating, except they "forgot" to mention it was from years before and they weren't celebrating America getting attacked.
I too was in New Jersey on September 11, 2001. I was even in a place where actual Muslims worked. I never saw anybody celebrate the fall of the towers, and I remember hearing on the news reports about some people doing so that were debunked nearly instantly. I know it won't matter, but there isn't a shred of evidence that any such celebrations actually happened.
IIRC Fox News ran footage of Muslims in a foreign country celebrating, except they "forgot" to mention it was from years before and they weren't celebrating America getting attacked.
Back then everyone followed what Fox News showed with authenticity, even MSNBC. Some shows and anchors more than others, like Chris Matthews. The reason I'm not putting as much blame on the others, not that they don't deserve blame for what they did, was that they weren't the source - Fox News was.
I too was in New Jersey on September 11, 2001. I was even in a place where actual Muslims worked. I never saw anybody celebrate the fall of the towers, and I remember hearing on the news reports about some people doing so that were debunked nearly instantly. I know it won't matter, but there isn't a shred of evidence that any such celebrations actually happened.
IIRC Fox News ran footage of Muslims in a foreign country celebrating, except they "forgot" to mention it was from years before and they weren't celebrating America getting attacked.
Back then everyone followed what Fox News showed with authenticity, even MSNBC. Some shows and anchors more than others, like Chris Matthews. The reason I'm not putting as much blame on the others, not that they don't deserve blame for what they did, was that they weren't the source - Fox News was.
I too was in New Jersey on September 11, 2001. I was even in a place where actual Muslims worked. I never saw anybody celebrate the fall of the towers, and I remember hearing on the news reports about some people doing so that were debunked nearly instantly. I know it won't matter, but there isn't a shred of evidence that any such celebrations actually happened.
IIRC Fox News ran footage of Muslims in a foreign country celebrating, except they "forgot" to mention it was from years before and they weren't celebrating America getting attacked.
Back then everyone followed what Fox News showed with authenticity, even MSNBC. Some shows and anchors more than others, like Chris Matthews. The reason I'm not putting as much blame on the others, not that they don't deserve blame for what they did, was that they weren't the source - Fox News was.
I too was in New Jersey on September 11, 2001. I was even in a place where actual Muslims worked. I never saw anybody celebrate the fall of the towers, and I remember hearing on the news reports about some people doing so that were debunked nearly instantly. I know it won't matter, but there isn't a shred of evidence that any such celebrations actually happened.
If this was an actual thing it would have been rebroadcast on fox non stop every day. The fact it has not been is probably the clearest example of it not actually happening.
I too was in New Jersey on September 11, 2001. I was even in a place where actual Muslims worked. I never saw anybody celebrate the fall of the towers, and I remember hearing on the news reports about some people doing so that were debunked nearly instantly. I know it won't matter, but there isn't a shred of evidence that any such celebrations actually happened.
IIRC Fox News ran footage of Muslims in a foreign country celebrating, except they "forgot" to mention it was from years before and they weren't celebrating America getting attacked.
Back then everyone followed what Fox News showed with authenticity, even MSNBC. Some shows and anchors more than others, like Chris Matthews. The reason I'm not putting as much blame on the others, not that they don't deserve blame for what they did, was that they weren't the source - Fox News was.
It was shot on the day of the attacks in West Jerusalem by Reuters reporters, who then fed it to Fox, CNN, MSNBC, etc.
I didn't know that. Thanks.
I mean, it was still awful of those news organizations to chew on it in the way they did... but yeah. Animosity breeds animosity. The circle jerk of hate.
I too was in New Jersey on September 11, 2001. I was even in a place where actual Muslims worked. I never saw anybody celebrate the fall of the towers, and I remember hearing on the news reports about some people doing so that were debunked nearly instantly. I know it won't matter, but there isn't a shred of evidence that any such celebrations actually happened.
The claim is so gobsmackingly stupid. I mean, maybe some local kids did it because lol local shithead kids who don't yet fully grasp certain things, but nobody even knew who was responsible for the attacks yet, including anyone who might've been a Wahhabi supporter in NJ.
Best set your watch, though. Now that this is a thing, it's only a matter of time before some opportunistic asshole cop 'comes forward' to back-up Mr. Trump's claim with his or her personal anecdote about how they were totally there and totally busted a huge ring of rooftop celebrations and all of the people celebrating were totally Muslim.
The people celebrating knew about it because they're all terrorists. See?
I too was in New Jersey on September 11, 2001. I was even in a place where actual Muslims worked. I never saw anybody celebrate the fall of the towers, and I remember hearing on the news reports about some people doing so that were debunked nearly instantly. I know it won't matter, but there isn't a shred of evidence that any such celebrations actually happened.
If this was an actual thing it would have been rebroadcast on fox non stop every day. The fact it has not been is probably the clearest example of it not actually happening.
Nah, it's just further evidence that Fox News is a member of the liberal lamestream media.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
“And I would approve more than that. Don’t kid yourself, folks. It works, okay? It works. Only a stupid person would say it doesn’t work.”
Trump said such techniques are needed to confront terrorists who “chop off our young people’s heads” and “build these iron cages, and they’ll put 20 people in them and they drop them in the ocean for 15 minutes and pull them up 15 minutes later.”
“It works,” Trump said over and over again. “Believe me, it works. And you know what? If it doesn’t work, they deserve it anyway, for what they’re doing.”
This is the leading contender for the GOP saying america should make people suffer because of crimes they have committed. And the worst part is, he is not alone in his party with these beliefs. THIS PARTY CONTROLS MOST OF OUR GOVERNMENT!
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Posts
Don't you remember how insanely controversial torture was once the media learnt about Guantanamo etc? That wasn't quasi torture either. Many people in the intelligence community and the FBI were in the media and testified how bad it was for acquiring actionable intelligence and being an ethical black hole.
I'm amused that the top two candidates are an Hispanic and an openly anti-Hispanic racist.
Cruz looks so sad in that pic.
Okay.
I do enjoy that he's polling lower than a guy that's not in the race and the guy I've never even heard of.
I wonder who will get his tens of votes when he drops out
To be fair, Ted Cruz is kind of an openly anti-Hispanic racist, just for Hispanics who are not him.
You know, I don't think there is anything more Trump than a monument to delusion.
His base will love it, Trump knows his audience. His white supremacist audience.
And racists.
Trump also spent quite a while looking for a certain Birth Certificate.
And we know that Cruz was born in Canada (sure, he's perfectly eligible to run, but i still find this slightly amusing).
"Okay, yeah, so that battle never happened. But it's certainly possible that something like that might have happened at some point in time, in, you know, the general vicinity."
Oh, Trump, you rascally pathological bullshitter!
I didn't know that OCP president Dick Jones was running. But it's not surprising that he would be in last place.
Dick Jones would be a moderate in this circus.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I wouldn't get spooked yet. As Nate Silver argues, the polls are misleading. This far out, 65-80% of primary voters are still undecided. That puts Trump's likely "locked in" primary votes somewhere around 6-10%, not 30%. Plus, 30% of "likely republican primary voters" represents 6-8% of the total electorate.
He really should have continued and explained how much polls change during the later weeks, to quantify the predictive value of polls. From what I've seen polling isn't predictive yet but will be soon.
Really
cause it took me less than 2 minutes (about 15 seconds) to find this article on Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/22/donald-trumps-outrageous-claim-that-thousands-of-new-jersey-muslims-celebrated-the-911-attacks/
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
This does not offer a compelling refutation if you're looking for an excuse to believe Mr. Trump
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Oh God the single comment:
lol
Zero of it actually ended up being true
IIRC Fox News ran footage of Muslims in a foreign country celebrating, except they "forgot" to mention it was from years before and they weren't celebrating America getting attacked.
Maybe not, but that article factually does not say what the Trump spokesman says it does. The article is about the FBI investigating muslims in Northern New Jersey because that was where the 1993 attackers came from. Only in one short paragraph does it say they were investigating any reports of celebrating.
That's literally the entire quote that the article says about it.
But, I guess liars gonna lie.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
The claim is so gobsmackingly stupid. I mean, maybe some local kids did it because lol local shithead kids who don't yet fully grasp certain things, but nobody even knew who was responsible for the attacks yet, including anyone who might've been a Wahhabi supporter in NJ.
Best set your watch, though. Now that this is a thing, it's only a matter of time before some opportunistic asshole cop 'comes forward' to back-up Mr. Trump's claim with his or her personal anecdote about how they were totally there and totally busted a huge ring of rooftop celebrations and all of the people celebrating were totally Muslim.
I was very glad yesterday an entire paper (I forget which, sorry) had its front page dedicated to shitting on this claim from trump
I never liked him but I didn't feel as much anger as I do now these last few months
This footage that MSNBC ran, too?
"A Muslim in New Jersey probably celebrated. Mostly true."
Back then everyone followed what Fox News showed with authenticity, even MSNBC. Some shows and anchors more than others, like Chris Matthews. The reason I'm not putting as much blame on the others, not that they don't deserve blame for what they did, was that they weren't the source - Fox News was.
Ahem.
Unfortunately, no, that footage is not fake.
It was shot on the day of the attacks in West Jerusalem by Reuters reporters, who then fed it to Fox, CNN, MSNBC, etc.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/22/donald-trump/fact-checking-trumps-claim-thousands-new-jersey-ch/
even politifact considered this beyond the pale
Though just wait, when the complaints roll in they'll flip it to half true because people really believe in this made up horse shit.
pleasepaypreacher.net
If this was an actual thing it would have been rebroadcast on fox non stop every day. The fact it has not been is probably the clearest example of it not actually happening.
I mean, it was still awful of those news organizations to chew on it in the way they did... but yeah. Animosity breeds animosity. The circle jerk of hate.
The people celebrating knew about it because they're all terrorists. See?
Nah, it's just further evidence that Fox News is a member of the liberal lamestream media.
This is the leading contender for the GOP saying america should make people suffer because of crimes they have committed. And the worst part is, he is not alone in his party with these beliefs. THIS PARTY CONTROLS MOST OF OUR GOVERNMENT!
pleasepaypreacher.net