I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
you don't think it's a matter of the responses being clear and complete and unconvincing?
So, my mom had kind of a potentially scary incident yesterday.
She was getting into her car at a store downtown, and some random tweaker got into the passenger side and looked at her with his wild eyes and said "...can you give me a ride to the 7-11 up the road?"
Like he just... got into her car and asked for a ride? He didn't threaten her or anything, although his presence already sitting in her car was kinda threatening enough. So, she gave him a ride to the 7-11 up the road. My mother used to be a social worker who worked with a lot of mentally ill and unstable people so she's actually pretty good at remaining calm and talking to folks like this, so when he wasn't... doing so good while she was driving she was able to keep him talking and focused so he didn't do anything.
They got to the 7-11, and he got out, and when he was in the store she drove away and called the cops.
It's the kind of situation where, if she wasn't who she was and had her specific skills and stuff, it could have possibly been a lot worse!
every southern themed show has a cafe du monde tin in their kitchen.
another fact
half of the people with cafe du monde tins in their kitchen have never actually been there
In laws brought back a tin of their coffee with chicory
Gross
The french roast was good
The chicory is great IF IF IF IF
You are also eating something shockingly sweet alongside it.
like a stack of beignets taller than you are
well let's be honest.
It's really a stack of powdered sugar. There are two beignets at the bottom.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
So, my mom had kind of a potentially scary incident yesterday.
She was getting into her car at a store downtown, and some random tweaker got into the passenger side and looked at her with his wild eyes and said "...can you give me a ride to the 7-11 up the road?"
Like he just... got into her car and asked for a ride? He didn't threaten her or anything, although his presence already sitting in her car was kinda threatening enough. So, she gave him a ride to the 7-11 up the road. My mother used to be a social worker who worked with a lot of mentally ill and unstable people so she's actually pretty good at remaining calm and talking to folks like this, so when he wasn't... doing so good while she was driving she was able to keep him talking and focused so he didn't do anything.
They got to the 7-11, and he got out, and when he was in the store she drove away and called the cops.
It's the kind of situation where, if she wasn't who she was and had her specific skills and stuff, it could have possibly been a lot worse!
good lord Im glad she is ok, yeah that had the potential to go wrong for so many people
+5
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
every southern themed show has a cafe du monde tin in their kitchen.
another fact
half of the people with cafe du monde tins in their kitchen have never actually been there
In laws brought back a tin of their coffee with chicory
Gross
The french roast was good
The chicory is great IF IF IF IF
You are also eating something shockingly sweet alongside it.
like a stack of beignets taller than you are
well let's be honest.
It's really a stack of powdered sugar. There are two beignets at the bottom.
Its just wasteful.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
One of my favorite things about Homeworld is the VO, not that the quality is particularly stellar or anything, but just how professional all your little space dudes sound, while still conveying the emotional horror of shit they're seeing/going through
like "okay brain that's my home being obliterated but time to do our jerb"
I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
you don't think it's a matter of the responses being clear and complete and unconvincing?
Also entirely possible, but I haven't seen a structured, complete argument for the idea of cultural appropriation yet--and as HD said, responses vary WILDLY
chicory coffee originated when union blockades cut off the coffee supply to the port of new orleans during the civil war
thanks, yankees!
thanksees
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Blameless Cleric An angel made of sapphires each more flawlessly cut than the last Registered Userregular
edited August 2017
I have been to Cafe du Monde a few times and every time it was gloriously delicious and I became covered in powdered sugar and then my dad had to drive 9 hours with me in the car
I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
I think there is probably a nugget of thought on cultural appropriation that I agree with wholeheartedly, but I think there is a lot that I probably am not willing to align with (I've mentioned recently that I've been thinking of buying some keffiyehs, and have as a result fallen down a weird hole of this stuff that has mostly left me confused).
How do you intend to wear the keffiyeh and what do you expect it to signify? I feel like often people use it to signal a political position on the middle east.
Steam, LoL: credeiki
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Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
you don't think it's a matter of the responses being clear and complete and unconvincing?
Also entirely possible, but I haven't seen a structured, complete argument for the idea of cultural appropriation yet--and as HD said, responses vary WILDLY
hmmm
i guess i will keep an open mind then
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simonwolfi can feel a differencetoday, a differenceRegistered Userregular
honestly unsure what this discussion is about. Well, was. Now it's a meta discussion about discussion, I guess.
EDM? Cultural appropriation? Warm or cold?
Now the discussion is about Abdhyius opinion on the discussion. [chat]-ception!
my opinion is that the meta discussion is zzz
now what was the topic
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
This is a cafe du monde beignet plate.
Notice how there is still a shitload of powdered sugar, but it is an amount that could conceivably stay on the pastry until you start biting down on it.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
I mean, I've written posts detailing what the specific definition of it is, why its harmful, with historical examples (as have others). I can't really agree that I or others haven't made earnest effort to present a coherent, consistent answer that would satisfy, at a minimum, why others might care about the issue.
Which isn't to say that every post has been the above or that this topic has settled, only that the conversation has been had enough that having to begin at the same place each time is a colossal waste of time for everyone involved.
0
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SummaryJudgmentGrab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front doorRegistered Userregular
I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
you don't think it's a matter of the responses being clear and complete and unconvincing?
Also entirely possible, but I haven't seen a structured, complete argument for the idea of cultural appropriation yet--and as HD said, responses vary WILDLY
Also depends on who we're appropriating from
Appropriated the hell out of a white male nerd safe space, and that's just the way the cookie crumbles
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
It is my opinion that cultural appropriation is not, in and of itself, evil. It is a complex and contextual subject that has to be judged on a case by case basis.
I'll let bae Lindsay Ellis go into more detail about it
I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
I think there is probably a nugget of thought on cultural appropriation that I agree with wholeheartedly, but I think there is a lot that I probably am not willing to align with (I've mentioned recently that I've been thinking of buying some keffiyehs, and have as a result fallen down a weird hole of this stuff that has mostly left me confused).
How do you intend to wear the keffiyeh and what do you expect it to signify? I feel like often people use it to signal a political position on the middle east.
I have one that I got through basically the only channel that means you can vote something that's not deeply red, since I got mine in the army because it's a useful thing
I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
I think there is probably a nugget of thought on cultural appropriation that I agree with wholeheartedly, but I think there is a lot that I probably am not willing to align with (I've mentioned recently that I've been thinking of buying some keffiyehs, and have as a result fallen down a weird hole of this stuff that has mostly left me confused).
How do you intend to wear the keffiyeh and what do you expect it to signify? I feel like often people use it to signal a political position on the middle east.
Yeah you can't escape the symbol even if you want to. Sometimes people fuck up your thing that you like, and you have to abandon it. We had this discussion with Squeakel recently in re: pepe.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
The ROI on buying contacts (based on what I paid for astigmatic lenses and what I paid for LASIK) is like 16 years, though. I guess sooner if you factor in contact solution, but it's entirely possible that I'll need glasses again by then. If you factor in a pair of glasses every 2-3 years, that figure only drops to 14 years.
things i liked about new orleans when i went there
1. seeing a cool jazz band at a place with a lot of locals dancing along
2. seeing a cool jazz band at the touristy jazz place
things i didn't like about new orleans when i went there
1. the street that was filled with strip clubs and drunk tourists and loud-not-particularly-good-live-music and street performers who were extremely aggressive about asking for tips
things that made me 'ok this is fine but i'm not sure why this is considered this big thing' at new orleans
1. the coffee and the watchamacallit at the cafe du etc
I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
I think there is probably a nugget of thought on cultural appropriation that I agree with wholeheartedly, but I think there is a lot that I probably am not willing to align with (I've mentioned recently that I've been thinking of buying some keffiyehs, and have as a result fallen down a weird hole of this stuff that has mostly left me confused).
Appropriate away. I'm kind of down with cultural appropriation, it is often how we get new and interesting takes on things. It's also how we got modern BBQ.
Man that just sorta reminds me of how when I was in middle school I listened to lots of electronic stuff.
Trance, D&B, Jungle, Industrial whatever you call stuff like Aphex Twin and Peaches and Lords of Acid.
But that was weird back then. People would make fun of that stuff.
Now electronic stuff is the most popular stuff.
It's always so weird how that works. The same stuff that was made fun of is now popular and listened to by those that made fun of it before.
It must be really lamentable, to be a queer poc and have your culture invaded by the same dudebros that said culture originally arose to provide refuge from
This is actually a really good case study in cultural appropriation. That people are forgetting its ties the gay community is the reason it's a problem (not that more people are making and enjoying the music).
Why is that a problem?
It's a problem because it's another way that a marginalized group has their contributions to art and culture denied.
It's a problem because it's another way that a historically othered group continues to be othered.
It's a problem because it's another way the dominant group asserts its cultural hegemony.
What do you mean? Denied how?
How does that relate?
Again, explain.
how many times have we had this argument
do you really think there's some three-line post that will answer your questions, or is this a skoofum style "what i mean by i don't understand is that i don't agree" way of sliding into an argumentative lecture
Man that just sorta reminds me of how when I was in middle school I listened to lots of electronic stuff.
Trance, D&B, Jungle, Industrial whatever you call stuff like Aphex Twin and Peaches and Lords of Acid.
But that was weird back then. People would make fun of that stuff.
Now electronic stuff is the most popular stuff.
It's always so weird how that works. The same stuff that was made fun of is now popular and listened to by those that made fun of it before.
It must be really lamentable, to be a queer poc and have your culture invaded by the same dudebros that said culture originally arose to provide refuge from
This is actually a really good case study in cultural appropriation. That people are forgetting its ties the gay community is the reason it's a problem (not that more people are making and enjoying the music).
Why is that a problem?
It's a problem because it's another way that a marginalized group has their contributions to art and culture denied.
It's a problem because it's another way that a historically othered group continues to be othered.
It's a problem because it's another way the dominant group asserts its cultural hegemony.
What do you mean? Denied how?
How does that relate?
Again, explain.
I'm going to be honest, I'm having a real hard time wanting to engage you on this topic due to past interactions. Literally all of these questions have been answered in previous posts on the subject.
I guess there's little that upsets people as much as difficulty articulating their own beliefs, as I said, my questions were in earnest
While you're always pretty civil about it, often moreso than your interlocutors, when you know someone means "that's bullshit" by asking you Socratic questions, it's irritating and can come off as hostile/disingenuous. For this question what you're basically asking is "engage in an extended discussion about identity politics, cultural appropriation, and the various interpenetrative issues with empirical data vs introspection vs unstudied problems vs the lack of credibility of marginalized groups"
That's a big ask! I know that the alternative is to have people bounce their ideas around the echo chamber, and certainly people ARE vexed by how hard it is to articulate the ideas they easily allude to, but that's not the whole issue. To be repeatedly asked to justify one's entire set of beliefs every time the issue comes up is exhausting.
This is why we should make a thread about it when repeated discussions like this come up in chat, IMO, though I know I am as guilty as anyone else of not doing so.
Thank you for the acknowledgement of relative civility, it is something toward which I actively and obviously imperfectly work toward. I acknowledge that Socratic questioning can be obvious and aggressive, but as I say, I was not in this instance being anything but earnest.
My thoroughgoing position is probably obvious enough for now - that we ought be able to explain the details of why we think something as a general principle. And the other commonality is that most of the arguments we have is due to disagreements at some more fundamental level - not talking about that actual disagreement is essentially talking past one another or duelling assertions (which is convincing to no one and it occurrence is often apparent to neither party).
But regarding your conclusion, I agree we ought have more threads to discuss issues in depth, but there are also zero threads of substance these days and given how anything that courts controversy is quickly closed I thought they were more or less discouraged. But that is probably misreading the climate
Apothe0sis on
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
As much as I get low key genuinely depressed and angry about the extent to which the internet has been turned into s fucking store, I think things like the erasure of whole communities from the art historical record of genres is the sort of thing the internet is very good at pushing back against.
Not just in real time but old photos demonstrating, like, "well actually a bunch of queer kids / whoever were instrumental in making this thing that Europeans later imported and re-sold back to Americans" can be rescued from the bottom of a shoebox, scanned, uploaded, and get propagated out rapidly.
Americans are incredibly touchy about the idea of elitism so there's this bizarre yet constant demand for trivialized novelties to be sold for viewing to people with no skin in the game. I don't know a smiley face way to say that -- people want a cleaned up version of something that needs to be tended inside of a cultural greenhouse by a minimum critical mass of people who are invested, but when you rip the art out of that environment, the yahoos and looky-loos either scoff at what they know is as flimsy a cash grab as everything else they've bought or they turn it into a Disney Vegas shitshow for three years and declare it passé.
I want the historical record to show the people who actually tended to the living thing so that the next generation of people ready to break ranks with the passive audience and start giving a shit will be buoyed by the trail that they realize stretches backward behind for lifetimes.
This is probably one of the biggest positive influences of the internet: reclamation projects. I'm afraid we are starting to slide back towards a more centralized cultural experience as the internet matures, but lots of good work has been done to show that all of this great art is connected to the material circumstances of people who care deeply about, not only being creative, but fostering a space for themselves and others like them (even if the culture at large was indifferent or hostile at the time).
Posts
you don't think it's a matter of the responses being clear and complete and unconvincing?
it was ok
She was getting into her car at a store downtown, and some random tweaker got into the passenger side and looked at her with his wild eyes and said "...can you give me a ride to the 7-11 up the road?"
Like he just... got into her car and asked for a ride? He didn't threaten her or anything, although his presence already sitting in her car was kinda threatening enough. So, she gave him a ride to the 7-11 up the road. My mother used to be a social worker who worked with a lot of mentally ill and unstable people so she's actually pretty good at remaining calm and talking to folks like this, so when he wasn't... doing so good while she was driving she was able to keep him talking and focused so he didn't do anything.
They got to the 7-11, and he got out, and when he was in the store she drove away and called the cops.
It's the kind of situation where, if she wasn't who she was and had her specific skills and stuff, it could have possibly been a lot worse!
EDM? Cultural appropriation? Warm or cold?
well let's be honest.
It's really a stack of powdered sugar. There are two beignets at the bottom.
Still less sugar than most cereals.
it's called breakfast because it's breaking the fast of the night
good lord Im glad she is ok, yeah that had the potential to go wrong for so many people
Its just wasteful.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
like "okay brain that's my home being obliterated but time to do our jerb"
Also entirely possible, but I haven't seen a structured, complete argument for the idea of cultural appropriation yet--and as HD said, responses vary WILDLY
Now the discussion is about Abdhyius opinion on the discussion. [chat]-ception!
thanksees
I'd love it if you took a look at my art and my PATREON!
How do you intend to wear the keffiyeh and what do you expect it to signify? I feel like often people use it to signal a political position on the middle east.
hmmm
i guess i will keep an open mind then
my opinion is that the meta discussion is zzz
now what was the topic
This is a cafe du monde beignet plate.
Notice how there is still a shitload of powdered sugar, but it is an amount that could conceivably stay on the pastry until you start biting down on it.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
yes i had a dongle for my SP IIRC
i had a nice fire red SP, with a pelican leather case
so sexy
o it was cultural appropriation! via... dance music started by lgbt groups?
I mean, I've written posts detailing what the specific definition of it is, why its harmful, with historical examples (as have others). I can't really agree that I or others haven't made earnest effort to present a coherent, consistent answer that would satisfy, at a minimum, why others might care about the issue.
Which isn't to say that every post has been the above or that this topic has settled, only that the conversation has been had enough that having to begin at the same place each time is a colossal waste of time for everyone involved.
Also depends on who we're appropriating from
Appropriated the hell out of a white male nerd safe space, and that's just the way the cookie crumbles
I'll let bae Lindsay Ellis go into more detail about it
I have one that I got through basically the only channel that means you can vote something that's not deeply red, since I got mine in the army because it's a useful thing
Yeah you can't escape the symbol even if you want to. Sometimes people fuck up your thing that you like, and you have to abandon it. We had this discussion with Squeakel recently in re: pepe.
The ROI on buying contacts (based on what I paid for astigmatic lenses and what I paid for LASIK) is like 16 years, though. I guess sooner if you factor in contact solution, but it's entirely possible that I'll need glasses again by then. If you factor in a pair of glasses every 2-3 years, that figure only drops to 14 years.
It's a convenience thing, not an investment.
1. seeing a cool jazz band at a place with a lot of locals dancing along
2. seeing a cool jazz band at the touristy jazz place
things i didn't like about new orleans when i went there
1. the street that was filled with strip clubs and drunk tourists and loud-not-particularly-good-live-music and street performers who were extremely aggressive about asking for tips
things that made me 'ok this is fine but i'm not sure why this is considered this big thing' at new orleans
1. the coffee and the watchamacallit at the cafe du etc
Just wait a few years when some hipsters "discover" the dance music from 30 years ago as the new cool.
Thank you for the acknowledgement of relative civility, it is something toward which I actively and obviously imperfectly work toward. I acknowledge that Socratic questioning can be obvious and aggressive, but as I say, I was not in this instance being anything but earnest.
My thoroughgoing position is probably obvious enough for now - that we ought be able to explain the details of why we think something as a general principle. And the other commonality is that most of the arguments we have is due to disagreements at some more fundamental level - not talking about that actual disagreement is essentially talking past one another or duelling assertions (which is convincing to no one and it occurrence is often apparent to neither party).
But regarding your conclusion, I agree we ought have more threads to discuss issues in depth, but there are also zero threads of substance these days and given how anything that courts controversy is quickly closed I thought they were more or less discouraged. But that is probably misreading the climate
This is probably one of the biggest positive influences of the internet: reclamation projects. I'm afraid we are starting to slide back towards a more centralized cultural experience as the internet matures, but lots of good work has been done to show that all of this great art is connected to the material circumstances of people who care deeply about, not only being creative, but fostering a space for themselves and others like them (even if the culture at large was indifferent or hostile at the time).