I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
I think there is probably a nugget of thought on cultural appropriation that I agree with wholeheartedly, but I think there is a lot that I probably am not willing to align with (I've mentioned recently that I've been thinking of buying some keffiyehs, and have as a result fallen down a weird hole of this stuff that has mostly left me confused).
How do you intend to wear the keffiyeh and what do you expect it to signify? I feel like often people use it to signal a political position on the middle east.
However I feel like at the time. I'm not buying the one with the political pattern, obviously(?). It isn't intended to signal a position, really, it's mostly wanting a more versatile scarf and liking some of the patterns that the Hirbawi factory puts out.
(Also, I got one years ago for camping, because it keeps dust out of my face and eyes, and I feel guilty about buying a mass produced Chinese one in retrospect, so it's sort of an atonement for that)
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
things i liked about new orleans when i went there
1. seeing a cool jazz band at a place with a lot of locals dancing along
2. seeing a cool jazz band at the touristy jazz place
things i didn't like about new orleans when i went there
1. the street that was filled with strip clubs and drunk tourists and loud-not-particularly-good-live-music and street performers who were extremely aggressive about asking for tips
things that made me 'ok this is fine but i'm not sure why this is considered this big thing' at new orleans
1. the coffee and the watchamacallit at the cafe du etc
My favorite new orleans food thing tho is the sunday brunch buffet at Court of Two Sisters.
Springtime day, sit outside under the canopy of vines and lattice, drink champagne and orange juice and eat lobster, filet, crawfish, and a million other expensive and delicious things.
It cost 20 bucks a head in the 90s, I have to imagine it is so much more now.
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
It is my opinion that cultural appropriation is not, in and of itself, evil. It is a complex and contextual subject that has to be judged on a case by case basis.
I'll let bae Lindsay Ellis go into more detail about it
I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
I think there is probably a nugget of thought on cultural appropriation that I agree with wholeheartedly, but I think there is a lot that I probably am not willing to align with (I've mentioned recently that I've been thinking of buying some keffiyehs, and have as a result fallen down a weird hole of this stuff that has mostly left me confused).
How do you intend to wear the keffiyeh and what do you expect it to signify? I feel like often people use it to signal a political position on the middle east.
Yeah you can't escape the symbol even if you want to. Sometimes people fuck up your thing that you like, and you have to abandon it. We had this discussion with Squeakel recently in re: pepe.
I've stopped wearing my mjolnir, someone straight up asked me if I was a white supremacist.
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SummaryJudgmentGrab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front doorRegistered Userregular
The ROI on buying contacts (based on what I paid for astigmatic lenses and what I paid for LASIK) is like 16 years, though. I guess sooner if you factor in contact solution, but it's entirely possible that I'll need glasses again by then. If you factor in a pair of glasses every 2-3 years, that figure only drops to 14 years.
It's a convenience thing, not an investment.
Glasses every couple years for me was 4-500, LASIK all told was 3k?
Its a convenience thing, but i don't agree that the economics of it are as dismal as you're making out
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
I think there is probably a nugget of thought on cultural appropriation that I agree with wholeheartedly, but I think there is a lot that I probably am not willing to align with (I've mentioned recently that I've been thinking of buying some keffiyehs, and have as a result fallen down a weird hole of this stuff that has mostly left me confused).
How do you intend to wear the keffiyeh and what do you expect it to signify? I feel like often people use it to signal a political position on the middle east.
I have one that I got through basically the only channel that means you can vote something that's not deeply red, since I got mine in the army because it's a useful thing
Right, and I do not know what's up with it internationally or even all over the US, but in my circles it's something that you'd wear if you were, like, a jew who is super into palestine? Or presumably a non-jew who is super into palestine, I suppose. And it definitely has that political signalling whether or not you want that.
I also haven't seen one in forever so maybe they're passe.
I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
I think there is probably a nugget of thought on cultural appropriation that I agree with wholeheartedly, but I think there is a lot that I probably am not willing to align with (I've mentioned recently that I've been thinking of buying some keffiyehs, and have as a result fallen down a weird hole of this stuff that has mostly left me confused).
How do you intend to wear the keffiyeh and what do you expect it to signify? I feel like often people use it to signal a political position on the middle east.
Yeah you can't escape the symbol even if you want to. Sometimes people fuck up your thing that you like, and you have to abandon it. We had this discussion with Squeakel recently in re: pepe.
I think the symbol is the one pattern? Without the white and black fishnet it's a big cotton square.
+1
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SummaryJudgmentGrab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front doorRegistered Userregular
I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
I think there is probably a nugget of thought on cultural appropriation that I agree with wholeheartedly, but I think there is a lot that I probably am not willing to align with (I've mentioned recently that I've been thinking of buying some keffiyehs, and have as a result fallen down a weird hole of this stuff that has mostly left me confused).
How do you intend to wear the keffiyeh and what do you expect it to signify? I feel like often people use it to signal a political position on the middle east.
Yeah you can't escape the symbol even if you want to. Sometimes people fuck up your thing that you like, and you have to abandon it. We had this discussion with Squeakel recently in re: pepe.
Pepe ... you did nothing wrong ... you were just too pure for this world ...
I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
I think there is probably a nugget of thought on cultural appropriation that I agree with wholeheartedly, but I think there is a lot that I probably am not willing to align with (I've mentioned recently that I've been thinking of buying some keffiyehs, and have as a result fallen down a weird hole of this stuff that has mostly left me confused).
How do you intend to wear the keffiyeh and what do you expect it to signify? I feel like often people use it to signal a political position on the middle east.
However I feel like at the time. I'm not buying the one with the political pattern, obviously(?). It isn't intended to signal a position, really, it's mostly wanting a more versatile scarf and liking some of the patterns that the Hirbawi factory puts out.
(Also, I got one years ago for camping, because it keeps dust out of my face and eyes, and I feel guilty about buying a mass produced Chinese one in retrospect, so it's sort of an atonement for that)
hmmm wait maybe I actually don't know what a keffiyeh is
not that black and white thing often seen here as a neckscarf? Is it just sort of a generic scarf?
Cultural appropriation is a hard issue to grok in discussion because it's generally a loaded negative term but like, everything and even respectful use could also be cultural appropriation under a neutral understanding. It seems to generally boil down to a really fuzzy argument reminiscent of the "Should you credit the artist? Don't care/yes, in some fashion/yes, loudly/don't share other's work outside of specific contexts" debates.
In the end, I agree there should be more respect and understanding of the roots of art movements but on the other hand that winds up being a massive ask when you pile it on the performers or especially consumers of culture with roots older than they are, for every genre, across all forms of art.
But regarding your conclusion, I agree we ought have more threads to discuss issues in depth, but there are also zero threads of substance these days and given how anything that courts controversy is quickly closed I thought they were more or less discouraged. But that is probably misreading the climate
*clicks the disagree button*
If you disagree about threads having substance, I implore you to post in them to offer an alternative opinion.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I will always be pro-LASIK, and speak highly of it. It was a huge, life-changing decision for me. But I also didn't ever really wear contacts and found glasses really troublesome and annoying, so LASIK was a pretty massive shift for me.
(also my wife is a center director for a major LASIK corporation so I'm pretty much in the pocket of BIG LASIK, full disclosure)
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GonmunHe keeps kickin' me inthe dickRegistered Userregular
God fucking damnit Bell Aliant, get your shit together. How do you let your entire network go down and take out both cell and landline service?! And to top it off, some 911 services are being affected by it too.
Man that just sorta reminds me of how when I was in middle school I listened to lots of electronic stuff.
Trance, D&B, Jungle, Industrial whatever you call stuff like Aphex Twin and Peaches and Lords of Acid.
But that was weird back then. People would make fun of that stuff.
Now electronic stuff is the most popular stuff.
It's always so weird how that works. The same stuff that was made fun of is now popular and listened to by those that made fun of it before.
It must be really lamentable, to be a queer poc and have your culture invaded by the same dudebros that said culture originally arose to provide refuge from
This is actually a really good case study in cultural appropriation. That people are forgetting its ties the gay community is the reason it's a problem (not that more people are making and enjoying the music).
Why is that a problem?
It's a problem because it's another way that a marginalized group has their contributions to art and culture denied.
It's a problem because it's another way that a historically othered group continues to be othered.
It's a problem because it's another way the dominant group asserts its cultural hegemony.
What do you mean? Denied how?
How does that relate?
Again, explain.
how many times have we had this argument
do you really think there's some three-line post that will answer your questions, or is this a skoofum style "what i mean by i don't understand is that i don't agree" way of sliding into an argumentative lecture
Man that just sorta reminds me of how when I was in middle school I listened to lots of electronic stuff.
Trance, D&B, Jungle, Industrial whatever you call stuff like Aphex Twin and Peaches and Lords of Acid.
But that was weird back then. People would make fun of that stuff.
Now electronic stuff is the most popular stuff.
It's always so weird how that works. The same stuff that was made fun of is now popular and listened to by those that made fun of it before.
It must be really lamentable, to be a queer poc and have your culture invaded by the same dudebros that said culture originally arose to provide refuge from
This is actually a really good case study in cultural appropriation. That people are forgetting its ties the gay community is the reason it's a problem (not that more people are making and enjoying the music).
Why is that a problem?
It's a problem because it's another way that a marginalized group has their contributions to art and culture denied.
It's a problem because it's another way that a historically othered group continues to be othered.
It's a problem because it's another way the dominant group asserts its cultural hegemony.
What do you mean? Denied how?
How does that relate?
Again, explain.
I'm going to be honest, I'm having a real hard time wanting to engage you on this topic due to past interactions. Literally all of these questions have been answered in previous posts on the subject.
I guess there's little that upsets people as much as difficulty articulating their own beliefs, as I said, my questions were in earnest
While you're always pretty civil about it, often moreso than your interlocutors, when you know someone means "that's bullshit" by asking you Socratic questions, it's irritating and can come off as hostile/disingenuous. For this question what you're basically asking is "engage in an extended discussion about identity politics, cultural appropriation, and the various interpenetrative issues with empirical data vs introspection vs unstudied problems vs the lack of credibility of marginalized groups"
That's a big ask! I know that the alternative is to have people bounce their ideas around the echo chamber, and certainly people ARE vexed by how hard it is to articulate the ideas they easily allude to, but that's not the whole issue. To be repeatedly asked to justify one's entire set of beliefs every time the issue comes up is exhausting.
This is why we should make a thread about it when repeated discussions like this come up in chat, IMO, though I know I am as guilty as anyone else of not doing so.
Thank you for the acknowledgement of relative civility, it is something toward which I actively and obviously imperfectly work toward. I acknowledge that Socratic questioning can be obvious and aggressive, but as I say, I was not in this instance being anything but earnest.
My thoroughgoing position is probably obvious enough for now - that we ought be able to explain the details of why we think something as a general principle. And the other commonality is that most of the arguments we have is due to disagreements at some more fundamental level - not talking about that actual disagreement is essentially talking past one another or duelling assertions (which is convincing to no one and it occurrence is often apparent to neither party).
But regarding your conclusion, I agree we ought have more threads to discuss issues in depth, but there are also zero threads of substance these days and given how anything that courts controversy is quickly closed I thought they were more or less discouraged. But that is probably misreading the climate
Feel free to make a thread on this topic. The button is over there. I don't think chat is the place to engage in this the way you appear to want to.
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TTODewbackPuts the drawl in ya'llI think I'm in HellRegistered Userregular
you know what we haven't talked about in ages?
sandwiches
My favourite genre of music? -chuckles sensibly- Oh, I just listen to Top 20 songs that have been parodied with Overwatch lyrics
...
You see, this one is I Kissed A Girl, but it's about Widowmaker, so it's actually an extremely relevant piece of music, and then you can just kind of click the related videos to all kinds of pop songs that are now about Overwatch!!!
It is my opinion that cultural appropriation is not, in and of itself, evil. It is a complex and contextual subject that has to be judged on a case by case basis.
I'll let bae Lindsay Ellis go into more detail about it
I will say, I think Apo keeps asking because the responses to his questions have been confused, incoherent, inconsistent, and unsatisfying, specifically in this area.
I have seen many discussions on this point and never grasped the argument of the side I myself tend to be politically aligned with.
What happens is the discussion starts, and work or time zones intervene, and it is not satisfactorily concluded
I think there is probably a nugget of thought on cultural appropriation that I agree with wholeheartedly, but I think there is a lot that I probably am not willing to align with (I've mentioned recently that I've been thinking of buying some keffiyehs, and have as a result fallen down a weird hole of this stuff that has mostly left me confused).
Appropriate away. I'm kind of down with cultural appropriation, it is often how we get new and interesting takes on things. It's also how we got modern BBQ.
You can have cultural exchange without being appropriative; the issue isn't that modern BBQ exists, but that presumably the originating culture hasn't received just compense for their contribution to the greater BBQ zeitgeist.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
Someone brought a kid to work today. Productivity amongst the ladies in the office is shit.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
The problem with cultural appropriate is it is usually closely followed by entitled statements like "get over it" or "if you dont like 'dress up holiday' then deal with it". Additionally in almost all instances it is done distinctly without the honoring so claimed to be with. The Indians and Redskins are notable instances. Indians have had some history of getting rid of Wahoo, although they haven't, but the Redskins fly with the honoring aspect even though it is a racial slur. Other notable excuses are of the realm of "my great great grandma was cherokee" or the like which is just an absurd thing to say.
Posts
However I feel like at the time. I'm not buying the one with the political pattern, obviously(?). It isn't intended to signal a position, really, it's mostly wanting a more versatile scarf and liking some of the patterns that the Hirbawi factory puts out.
(Also, I got one years ago for camping, because it keeps dust out of my face and eyes, and I feel guilty about buying a mass produced Chinese one in retrospect, so it's sort of an atonement for that)
My favorite new orleans food thing tho is the sunday brunch buffet at Court of Two Sisters.
Springtime day, sit outside under the canopy of vines and lattice, drink champagne and orange juice and eat lobster, filet, crawfish, and a million other expensive and delicious things.
It cost 20 bucks a head in the 90s, I have to imagine it is so much more now.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
the first two minutes of this where they make fun of pocohontas and moana being the same movie are pretty great
I've stopped wearing my mjolnir, someone straight up asked me if I was a white supremacist.
Glasses every couple years for me was 4-500, LASIK all told was 3k?
Its a convenience thing, but i don't agree that the economics of it are as dismal as you're making out
Right, and I do not know what's up with it internationally or even all over the US, but in my circles it's something that you'd wear if you were, like, a jew who is super into palestine? Or presumably a non-jew who is super into palestine, I suppose. And it definitely has that political signalling whether or not you want that.
I also haven't seen one in forever so maybe they're passe.
are you at cafe du monde
you decided to come to NYC the night i leave NYC so i hate u
...
This is dessert
I'm taking a stand because words have meanings
Ma! go get mu gun.
I think the symbol is the one pattern? Without the white and black fishnet it's a big cotton square.
Try me
On that diet of beignets can you fight a bad cold
Nuuuuuuuuunneeeezzzzzzzzz
Pepe ... you did nothing wrong ... you were just too pure for this world ...
do they
noun
1.the first meal of the day; morning meal:
Dude not before 9 A.M. PST
hmmm wait maybe I actually don't know what a keffiyeh is
not that black and white thing often seen here as a neckscarf? Is it just sort of a generic scarf?
????
In the end, I agree there should be more respect and understanding of the roots of art movements but on the other hand that winds up being a massive ask when you pile it on the performers or especially consumers of culture with roots older than they are, for every genre, across all forms of art.
*clicks the disagree button*
If you disagree about threads having substance, I implore you to post in them to offer an alternative opinion.
This is a great slogan.
You should put it on bumper stickers and sell it, make a fortune.
(also my wife is a center director for a major LASIK corporation so I'm pretty much in the pocket of BIG LASIK, full disclosure)
Will Pepe be in the history books of the future in the same way that fascist propoaganda of the teens, 20s and thirties are today?
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Feel free to make a thread on this topic. The button is over there. I don't think chat is the place to engage in this the way you appear to want to.
sandwiches
You see, this one is I Kissed A Girl, but it's about Widowmaker, so it's actually an extremely relevant piece of music, and then you can just kind of click the related videos to all kinds of pop songs that are now about Overwatch!!!
I still have mine. They are nearly indestructible.
sells 1m stickers
net profit: $0.25
Ellis' take on the Transformers movies are works of art.
You can have cultural exchange without being appropriative; the issue isn't that modern BBQ exists, but that presumably the originating culture hasn't received just compense for their contribution to the greater BBQ zeitgeist.
ｍｅｄｉｔａｔｅ．
like anyone on the west coast is up this early anyway