No, you're right. They're just animals, I don't see why people bitch so much over it. If I buy an animal I should be able to treat it however I deem fit.
I hope you're joking.
Animals are property.
See, I don't actually have an objective argument against this point of view, but it doesn't matter, because animal cruelty laws aren't going anywhere anytime soon, so I can still call the cops on you if you treat a pet like shit.
I won't, but I should have every right to. There's really no reason I would, but it's just an animal. There are better things to concern yourself with. For instance, the welfare of people.
Why exactly should you have every right to do whatever you want to an animal? Just because you can? I hope a bear eats you in the woods, not because it's hungry, but because it can.
That would make sense if I was the bear's property.
I do, actually. I just don't think people care about animals' suffering as much as they say they do. Just the cute ones. Some animals probably suffered for the meat you're eating just as much as Vick's dogs. Some more. Are you outraged? Gonna stop eating meat? Then why does everyone act like they're so much better than the guy?
Are you, like, new to this topic area?
Many people are pretty big on humane predation.
There's a big difference between kicking the shit out of an animal and killing it swiftly for consumption.
Killing it swiftly? I understand you had some rural experience, and should know better.
No, you're right. They're just animals, I don't see why people bitch so much over it. If I buy an animal I should be able to treat it however I deem fit.
I hope you're joking.
Animals are property.
See, I don't actually have an objective argument against this point of view, but it doesn't matter, because animal cruelty laws aren't going anywhere anytime soon, so I can still call the cops on you if you treat a pet like shit.
I won't, but I should have every right to. There's really no reason I would, but it's just an animal. There are better things to concern yourself with. For instance, the welfare of people.
Why exactly should you have every right to do whatever you want to an animal? Just because you can? I hope a dolphin fucks you in the ocean, not because it's horny, but because it can.
Here's the logic behind animal cruelty legislation:
"Puppy!"
"Kitty!"
I don't think I'm exaggerating.
Depends on whether you attribute worth to animal suffering.
I do, actually. I just don't think people care about animals' suffering as much as they say they do. Just the cute ones. Some animals probably suffered for the meat you're eating just as much as Vick's dogs. Some more. Are you outraged? Gonna stop eating meat? Then why does everyone act like they're so much better than the guy?
Maybe it's because its easier to stop guy who just want to hurt animals then the whole meat industry.
The meat industry affects a shitton of more animals than Vick or the dog fighting industry ever could. Also, that was to understatements what Brazil is to soccer.
I'm in favor of legislation barring staged fights between animals of any breed.
I'm not in favor of that legislation carrying 23 month sentences for a person with no prior convictions and an otherwise positive record of public citizenship.
I'll admit, I enjoy picking off birds with my pellet gun. Is this wrong? Maybe. Will I ever stop? Probably not.
Even though I still would never torture a cat, or most animals for that matter, I don't have the moral ground to stand on to tell anyone else it's wrong.
Like it or not, we are above them on the food chain. It is our privilege, not our duty, to let them live peacefully.
Although I did go to a bull fight in Spain and I have to admit it was one of the most profound experiences of my life. Nothing short of life-changing, that.
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Hi I'm Vee!Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C ERegistered Userregular
Although I did go to a bull fight in Spain and I have to admit it was one of the most profound experiences of my life. Nothing short of life-changing, that.
I heard those are violent. I don't think I would go to one.
It's an animal. It's no different than fucking with a character in a video game. It isn't a person. Why should I care?
Why should you care about people, since they're animals?
Because people are people. Humans are humans. Animals are property.
Here are some problems with this
a) humans are by definition animals; if you're going to make a distinction, you will have to define it. what makes humans different from animals? I could just as well say "dogs are dogs. they're not animals." it doesn't mean anything.
b) not all animals are property. is it wrong to hurt a dog if it's not yours? what if it doesn't belong to anybody? what about a bear?
c) depending on a legal definition does not really have any weight in a moral debate, when the morality being questioned is the one encoded in law. The law can be, and very often is, wrong.
Oh fuck, I forgot about the drummer, how could I forget the fucking drummer?
No, I'm a singer/songwriter/pianist.
Inspirations/style/experience?
No specific inspirations, mostly an amalgam of the variety of music I listen to.
If I had to classify my style, it would probably be something like "jazzy-alternative".
I've only written one song, though, so...yeah. The singer/songwriter part is what I would be if I was in a band.
15 years of piano, though.
Christ, I spent eight years playing jazz guitar before I ever knew what power chords were for. That much more of a reason for me to drop everything here and actually do something with this hobby.
Killing it swiftly? I understand you had some rural experience, and should know better.
There is such a thing as groups who make a point of killing an animal as quickly and humanely as possible. They're just fucking expensive still. I stray away from Kosher food because I don't really want to risk them doing things the old fashioned way by bleeding some poor fucker to death rather than just exploding its brain.
We've had to do the same for some of our pets, and when we hunt, same thing.
You do whatever you can to minimize the suffering, even when you are willing to take the life.
You don't fucking beat the shit out of something for jollies.
It's an animal. It's no different than fucking with a character in a video game. It isn't a person. Why should I care?
Why should you care about people, since they're animals?
Because people are people. Humans are humans. Animals are property.
See and you aren't even explaing why animals are property, is it because we are superior to animals?
I assume. My position of why it's okay to hurt an animal but not okay to hurt a human is of equal validity as your position of why it's okay to kill an animal but not okay to kill a human. I mean, you don't really think you can defend that anymore than I can defend my position, do you?
Although I did go to a bull fight in Spain and I have to admit it was one of the most profound experiences of my life. Nothing short of life-changing, that.
I heard those are violent. I don't think I would go to one.
They are violent. A man murders a bull by driving a sword between its shoulder blades directly through its heart (that is if he does it right).
It's an animal. It's no different than fucking with a character in a video game. It isn't a person. Why should I care?
Why should you care about people, since they're animals?
Because people are people. Humans are humans. Animals are property.
See and you aren't even explaing why animals are property, is it because we are superior to animals?
They're bought and sold, which pretty much makes them property by definition. If you can own it, it's property.
But what about wild animals? Or just a stray dogs that don't have any owner. Just because you can buy some animals, do you extend that owning of property to other animals aswell?
Oh fuck, I forgot about the drummer, how could I forget the fucking drummer?
No, I'm a singer/songwriter/pianist.
Inspirations/style/experience?
No specific inspirations, mostly an amalgam of the variety of music I listen to.
If I had to classify my style, it would probably be something like "jazzy-alternative".
I've only written one song, though, so...yeah. The singer/songwriter part is what I would be if I was in a band.
15 years of piano, though.
Christ, I spent eight years playing jazz guitar before I ever knew what power chords were for. That much more of a reason for me to drop everything here and actually do something with this hobby.
Still can't play bluesey to save my life, though.
Yeah, I was classically trained, so I can't really improvise. Like, at all.
Technically no, though I did attend an arts magnet for music in highschool and had violin lessons for 8 years.
Well then you should know better.
I'm not saying the entire song is the same. Just the melody of "Like the coldest winter chill" sounds very similar to the opening of the vocal line to Heart Shaped Box. After I noticed that, I just kept thinking Heart Shaped Box. It doesn't help that, in that song at least, the band sounds like a pop-ier version of Nirvana.
I'll admit, I enjoy picking off birds with my pellet gun. Is this wrong? Maybe. Will I ever stop? Probably not.
Even though I still would never torture a cat, or most animals for that matter, I don't have the moral ground to stand on to tell anyone else it's wrong.
Like it or not, we are above them on the food chain. It is our privilege, not our duty, to let them live peacefully.
I'm generally against needless pain. I'm also against the unnecessary termination of sentience. These find shooting birds in a greyish neutral area, but staged animal fights barbaric.
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That would make sense if I was the bear's property.
Killing it swiftly? I understand you had some rural experience, and should know better.
Why should you care about people, since they're animals?
I haven't made up an argument about how science has proved animals don't have feelings.
Was it, at that point, alright to beat them and rape them and so on?
The meat industry affects a shitton of more animals than Vick or the dog fighting industry ever could. Also, that was to understatements what Brazil is to soccer.
There is something wrong with you.
Because people are people. Humans are humans. Animals are property.
Technically no, though I did attend an arts magnet for music in highschool and had violin lessons for 8 years.
No specific inspirations, mostly an amalgam of the variety of music I listen to.
If I had to classify my style, it would probably be something like "jazzy-alternative".
I've only written one song, though, so...yeah. The singer/songwriter part is what I would be if I was in a band.
15 years of piano, though.
I'm not in favor of that legislation carrying 23 month sentences for a person with no prior convictions and an otherwise positive record of public citizenship.
Or, maybe my upbringing had me instilled with different values than yours concerning the rights and worth of animals?
Even though I still would never torture a cat, or most animals for that matter, I don't have the moral ground to stand on to tell anyone else it's wrong.
Like it or not, we are above them on the food chain. It is our privilege, not our duty, to let them live peacefully.
See and you aren't even explaing why animals are property, is it because we are superior to animals?
3DS: 2852-6809-9411
I mean I can hear the similarities but I do like Heart Shaped Box, so it's okay.
You have about as much experience playing bass as I do writing music, so don't feel bad. :P
I heard those are violent. I don't think I would go to one.
3DS: 2852-6809-9411
They're bought and sold, which pretty much makes them property by definition. If you can own it, it's property.
Here are some problems with this
a) humans are by definition animals; if you're going to make a distinction, you will have to define it. what makes humans different from animals? I could just as well say "dogs are dogs. they're not animals." it doesn't mean anything.
b) not all animals are property. is it wrong to hurt a dog if it's not yours? what if it doesn't belong to anybody? what about a bear?
c) depending on a legal definition does not really have any weight in a moral debate, when the morality being questioned is the one encoded in law. The law can be, and very often is, wrong.
Christ, I spent eight years playing jazz guitar before I ever knew what power chords were for. That much more of a reason for me to drop everything here and actually do something with this hobby.
Still can't play bluesey to save my life, though.
There is such a thing as groups who make a point of killing an animal as quickly and humanely as possible. They're just fucking expensive still. I stray away from Kosher food because I don't really want to risk them doing things the old fashioned way by bleeding some poor fucker to death rather than just exploding its brain.
We've had to do the same for some of our pets, and when we hunt, same thing.
You do whatever you can to minimize the suffering, even when you are willing to take the life.
You don't fucking beat the shit out of something for jollies.
I assume. My position of why it's okay to hurt an animal but not okay to hurt a human is of equal validity as your position of why it's okay to kill an animal but not okay to kill a human. I mean, you don't really think you can defend that anymore than I can defend my position, do you?
Yeah? Maybe you shouldn't use that as a crutch.
If you understand that you think differently because of your upbringing, you aren't confined by it.
Still, you'd be missing out if you never went.
But what about wild animals? Or just a stray dogs that don't have any owner. Just because you can buy some animals, do you extend that owning of property to other animals aswell?
3DS: 2852-6809-9411
What kind of music are you writing?
Dowries and paid adoption.
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Bullfighting pisses me off to no end.
Yeah, I was classically trained, so I can't really improvise. Like, at all.
I'll fucking Chopin the shit out of you, though.
Really, you don't have to be Jaco or anything to play pop music. Know the scales, know the keys, you're good.
I'm not saying the entire song is the same. Just the melody of "Like the coldest winter chill" sounds very similar to the opening of the vocal line to Heart Shaped Box. After I noticed that, I just kept thinking Heart Shaped Box. It doesn't help that, in that song at least, the band sounds like a pop-ier version of Nirvana.
I'm generally against needless pain. I'm also against the unnecessary termination of sentience. These find shooting birds in a greyish neutral area, but staged animal fights barbaric.
I'm not Church.
I win by that fact alone.
I have one song, and it needs a lot of work.
Dare I post it for all of D&D to mock and ridicule?