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The man with the Golden [Chat]

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Saburbia wrote: »
    Dude, you are talking to Ege Jr.

    burnsauce.gif

    Inquisitor on
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    ChurchChurch Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Saburbia wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    gundam470 wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    No, you're right. They're just animals, I don't see why people bitch so much over it. If I buy an animal I should be able to treat it however I deem fit.
    I hope you're joking.

    Animals are property.

    See, I don't actually have an objective argument against this point of view, but it doesn't matter, because animal cruelty laws aren't going anywhere anytime soon, so I can still call the cops on you if you treat a pet like shit.

    I won't, but I should have every right to. There's really no reason I would, but it's just an animal. There are better things to concern yourself with. For instance, the welfare of people.

    Why exactly should you have every right to do whatever you want to an animal? Just because you can? I hope a bear eats you in the woods, not because it's hungry, but because it can.

    That would make sense if I was the bear's property.

    Church on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited December 2007
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    I do, actually. I just don't think people care about animals' suffering as much as they say they do. Just the cute ones. Some animals probably suffered for the meat you're eating just as much as Vick's dogs. Some more. Are you outraged? Gonna stop eating meat? Then why does everyone act like they're so much better than the guy?

    Are you, like, new to this topic area?

    Many people are pretty big on humane predation.

    There's a big difference between kicking the shit out of an animal and killing it swiftly for consumption.

    Killing it swiftly? I understand you had some rural experience, and should know better.

    Elki on
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    Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2007
    Saburbia wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    gundam470 wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    No, you're right. They're just animals, I don't see why people bitch so much over it. If I buy an animal I should be able to treat it however I deem fit.
    I hope you're joking.

    Animals are property.

    See, I don't actually have an objective argument against this point of view, but it doesn't matter, because animal cruelty laws aren't going anywhere anytime soon, so I can still call the cops on you if you treat a pet like shit.

    I won't, but I should have every right to. There's really no reason I would, but it's just an animal. There are better things to concern yourself with. For instance, the welfare of people.

    Why exactly should you have every right to do whatever you want to an animal? Just because you can? I hope a dolphin fucks you in the ocean, not because it's horny, but because it can.

    Wonder_Hippie on
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Church wrote: »
    It's an animal. It's no different than fucking with a character in a video game. It isn't a person. Why should I care?

    Why should you care about people, since they're animals?

    Incenjucar on
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    ChurchChurch Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Saburbia wrote: »
    Dude, you are talking to Ege Jr.

    I haven't made up an argument about how science has proved animals don't have feelings.

    Church on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Black people used to be property

    Was it, at that point, alright to beat them and rape them and so on?

    Evil Multifarious on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited December 2007
    Saburbia wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    Here's the logic behind animal cruelty legislation:

    "Puppy!"

    "Kitty!"


    I don't think I'm exaggerating.

    Depends on whether you attribute worth to animal suffering.

    I do, actually. I just don't think people care about animals' suffering as much as they say they do. Just the cute ones. Some animals probably suffered for the meat you're eating just as much as Vick's dogs. Some more. Are you outraged? Gonna stop eating meat? Then why does everyone act like they're so much better than the guy?

    Maybe it's because its easier to stop guy who just want to hurt animals then the whole meat industry.

    The meat industry affects a shitton of more animals than Vick or the dog fighting industry ever could. Also, that was to understatements what Brazil is to soccer.

    Elki on
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    TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Church wrote: »
    It's an animal. It's no different than fucking with a character in a video game. It isn't a person. Why should I care?
    Holy shit, I just lost what ever respect I had for you. I mean, internet respect and all, but still.

    There is something wrong with you.

    TehSpectre on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Black people used to be property

    Was it, at that point, alright to beat them and rape them and so on?
    Legally speaking, yes.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    ChurchChurch Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    It's an animal. It's no different than fucking with a character in a video game. It isn't a person. Why should I care?

    Why should you care about people, since they're animals?

    Because people are people. Humans are humans. Animals are property.

    Church on
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    IreneDAdlerIreneDAdler Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    celery77 wrote: »
    Heaven Beside You it is. Thanks!

    That sounds much too much like Heart Shaped Box.
    I gather you're not a music major.

    Technically no, though I did attend an arts magnet for music in highschool and had violin lessons for 8 years.

    IreneDAdler on
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    Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Oh fuck, I forgot about the drummer, how could I forget the fucking drummer?

    No, I'm a singer/songwriter/pianist.

    Inspirations/style/experience?

    No specific inspirations, mostly an amalgam of the variety of music I listen to.

    If I had to classify my style, it would probably be something like "jazzy-alternative".

    I've only written one song, though, so...yeah. The singer/songwriter part is what I would be if I was in a band.

    15 years of piano, though.

    Hi I'm Vee! on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I'm in favor of legislation barring staged fights between animals of any breed.

    I'm not in favor of that legislation carrying 23 month sentences for a person with no prior convictions and an otherwise positive record of public citizenship.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    ChurchChurch Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    It's an animal. It's no different than fucking with a character in a video game. It isn't a person. Why should I care?
    Holy shit, I just lost what ever respect I had for you. I mean, internet respect and all, but still.

    There is something wrong with you.

    Or, maybe my upbringing had me instilled with different values than yours concerning the rights and worth of animals?

    Church on
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    MrBallbagginsMrBallbaggins Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I'll admit, I enjoy picking off birds with my pellet gun. Is this wrong? Maybe. Will I ever stop? Probably not.

    Even though I still would never torture a cat, or most animals for that matter, I don't have the moral ground to stand on to tell anyone else it's wrong.

    Like it or not, we are above them on the food chain. It is our privilege, not our duty, to let them live peacefully.

    MrBallbaggins on
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    Look Out it's Sabs!Look Out it's Sabs! Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Church wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    It's an animal. It's no different than fucking with a character in a video game. It isn't a person. Why should I care?

    Why should you care about people, since they're animals?

    Because people are people. Humans are humans. Animals are property.

    See and you aren't even explaing why animals are property, is it because we are superior to animals?

    Look Out it's Sabs! on
    NNID: Sabuiy
    3DS: 2852-6809-9411
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    celery77 wrote: »
    Heaven Beside You it is. Thanks!

    That sounds much too much like Heart Shaped Box.
    I gather you're not a music major.

    Technically no, though I did attend an arts magnet for music in highschool and had violin lessons for 8 years.
    Well then you should know better.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    15 years of Piano? Nice. Totally outclasses my....2 months now? Of bass.

    Inquisitor on
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    celery77 wrote: »
    Heaven Beside You it is. Thanks!

    That sounds much too much like Heart Shaped Box.
    I gather you're not a music major.

    Technically no, though I did attend an arts magnet for music in highschool and had violin lessons for 8 years.

    I mean I can hear the similarities but I do like Heart Shaped Box, so it's okay.

    Salvation122 on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Although I did go to a bull fight in Spain and I have to admit it was one of the most profound experiences of my life. Nothing short of life-changing, that.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    15 years of Piano? Nice. Totally outclasses my....2 months now? Of bass.

    You have about as much experience playing bass as I do writing music, so don't feel bad. :P

    Hi I'm Vee! on
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    Look Out it's Sabs!Look Out it's Sabs! Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    celery77 wrote: »
    Although I did go to a bull fight in Spain and I have to admit it was one of the most profound experiences of my life. Nothing short of life-changing, that.

    I heard those are violent. I don't think I would go to one.

    Look Out it's Sabs! on
    NNID: Sabuiy
    3DS: 2852-6809-9411
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Saburbia wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    It's an animal. It's no different than fucking with a character in a video game. It isn't a person. Why should I care?

    Why should you care about people, since they're animals?

    Because people are people. Humans are humans. Animals are property.

    See and you aren't even explaing why animals are property, is it because we are superior to animals?

    They're bought and sold, which pretty much makes them property by definition. If you can own it, it's property.

    Salvation122 on
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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Church wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    It's an animal. It's no different than fucking with a character in a video game. It isn't a person. Why should I care?

    Why should you care about people, since they're animals?

    Because people are people. Humans are humans. Animals are property.

    Here are some problems with this

    a) humans are by definition animals; if you're going to make a distinction, you will have to define it. what makes humans different from animals? I could just as well say "dogs are dogs. they're not animals." it doesn't mean anything.

    b) not all animals are property. is it wrong to hurt a dog if it's not yours? what if it doesn't belong to anybody? what about a bear?

    c) depending on a legal definition does not really have any weight in a moral debate, when the morality being questioned is the one encoded in law. The law can be, and very often is, wrong.

    Evil Multifarious on
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    Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2007
    Oh fuck, I forgot about the drummer, how could I forget the fucking drummer?

    No, I'm a singer/songwriter/pianist.

    Inspirations/style/experience?

    No specific inspirations, mostly an amalgam of the variety of music I listen to.

    If I had to classify my style, it would probably be something like "jazzy-alternative".

    I've only written one song, though, so...yeah. The singer/songwriter part is what I would be if I was in a band.

    15 years of piano, though.

    Christ, I spent eight years playing jazz guitar before I ever knew what power chords were for. That much more of a reason for me to drop everything here and actually do something with this hobby.

    Still can't play bluesey to save my life, though.

    Wonder_Hippie on
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Elki wrote: »
    Killing it swiftly? I understand you had some rural experience, and should know better.

    There is such a thing as groups who make a point of killing an animal as quickly and humanely as possible. They're just fucking expensive still. I stray away from Kosher food because I don't really want to risk them doing things the old fashioned way by bleeding some poor fucker to death rather than just exploding its brain.

    We've had to do the same for some of our pets, and when we hunt, same thing.

    You do whatever you can to minimize the suffering, even when you are willing to take the life.

    You don't fucking beat the shit out of something for jollies.

    Incenjucar on
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    ChurchChurch Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Saburbia wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    It's an animal. It's no different than fucking with a character in a video game. It isn't a person. Why should I care?

    Why should you care about people, since they're animals?

    Because people are people. Humans are humans. Animals are property.

    See and you aren't even explaing why animals are property, is it because we are superior to animals?

    I assume. My position of why it's okay to hurt an animal but not okay to hurt a human is of equal validity as your position of why it's okay to kill an animal but not okay to kill a human. I mean, you don't really think you can defend that anymore than I can defend my position, do you?

    Church on
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    TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Church wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    It's an animal. It's no different than fucking with a character in a video game. It isn't a person. Why should I care?
    Holy shit, I just lost what ever respect I had for you. I mean, internet respect and all, but still.

    There is something wrong with you.

    Or, maybe my upbringing had me instilled with different values than yours concerning the rights and worth of animals?

    Yeah? Maybe you shouldn't use that as a crutch.

    If you understand that you think differently because of your upbringing, you aren't confined by it.

    TehSpectre on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Saburbia wrote: »
    celery77 wrote: »
    Although I did go to a bull fight in Spain and I have to admit it was one of the most profound experiences of my life. Nothing short of life-changing, that.

    I heard those are violent. I don't think I would go to one.
    They are violent. A man murders a bull by driving a sword between its shoulder blades directly through its heart (that is if he does it right).

    Still, you'd be missing out if you never went.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    Look Out it's Sabs!Look Out it's Sabs! Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Saburbia wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Church wrote: »
    It's an animal. It's no different than fucking with a character in a video game. It isn't a person. Why should I care?

    Why should you care about people, since they're animals?

    Because people are people. Humans are humans. Animals are property.

    See and you aren't even explaing why animals are property, is it because we are superior to animals?

    They're bought and sold, which pretty much makes them property by definition. If you can own it, it's property.

    But what about wild animals? Or just a stray dogs that don't have any owner. Just because you can buy some animals, do you extend that owning of property to other animals aswell?

    Look Out it's Sabs! on
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    3DS: 2852-6809-9411
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    15 years of Piano? Nice. Totally outclasses my....2 months now? Of bass.

    You have about as much experience playing bass as I do writing music, so don't feel bad. :P

    What kind of music are you writing?

    Salvation122 on
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    They're bought and sold, which pretty much makes them property by definition. If you can own it, it's property.

    Dowries and paid adoption. <3<3<3

    --

    Bullfighting pisses me off to no end.

    Incenjucar on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Guys it's Church, you're not going to win.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Oh fuck, I forgot about the drummer, how could I forget the fucking drummer?

    No, I'm a singer/songwriter/pianist.

    Inspirations/style/experience?

    No specific inspirations, mostly an amalgam of the variety of music I listen to.

    If I had to classify my style, it would probably be something like "jazzy-alternative".

    I've only written one song, though, so...yeah. The singer/songwriter part is what I would be if I was in a band.

    15 years of piano, though.

    Christ, I spent eight years playing jazz guitar before I ever knew what power chords were for. That much more of a reason for me to drop everything here and actually do something with this hobby.

    Still can't play bluesey to save my life, though.

    Yeah, I was classically trained, so I can't really improvise. Like, at all.

    I'll fucking Chopin the shit out of you, though.

    Hi I'm Vee! on
    vRyue2p.png
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    Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2007
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    15 years of Piano? Nice. Totally outclasses my....2 months now? Of bass.

    Really, you don't have to be Jaco or anything to play pop music. Know the scales, know the keys, you're good.

    Wonder_Hippie on
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    IreneDAdlerIreneDAdler Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    celery77 wrote: »
    celery77 wrote: »
    Heaven Beside You it is. Thanks!

    That sounds much too much like Heart Shaped Box.
    I gather you're not a music major.

    Technically no, though I did attend an arts magnet for music in highschool and had violin lessons for 8 years.
    Well then you should know better.

    I'm not saying the entire song is the same. Just the melody of "Like the coldest winter chill" sounds very similar to the opening of the vocal line to Heart Shaped Box. After I noticed that, I just kept thinking Heart Shaped Box. It doesn't help that, in that song at least, the band sounds like a pop-ier version of Nirvana.

    IreneDAdler on
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    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I'll admit, I enjoy picking off birds with my pellet gun. Is this wrong? Maybe. Will I ever stop? Probably not.

    Even though I still would never torture a cat, or most animals for that matter, I don't have the moral ground to stand on to tell anyone else it's wrong.

    Like it or not, we are above them on the food chain. It is our privilege, not our duty, to let them live peacefully.

    I'm generally against needless pain. I'm also against the unnecessary termination of sentience. These find shooting birds in a greyish neutral area, but staged animal fights barbaric.

    electricitylikesme on
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    celery77 wrote: »
    Guys it's Church, you're not going to win.

    I'm not Church.

    I win by that fact alone.

    Incenjucar on
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    Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    15 years of Piano? Nice. Totally outclasses my....2 months now? Of bass.

    You have about as much experience playing bass as I do writing music, so don't feel bad. :P

    What kind of music are you writing?

    I have one song, and it needs a lot of work.

    Dare I post it for all of D&D to mock and ridicule?

    Hi I'm Vee! on
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