This may be running the same engine, but the graphical overhaul certainly makes it feel like a new game. I can't wait for 8-player Ice Climbers.
For seasoned Smash players, is this faster than 4? I know one of the big selling points of Melee is how fast it is, mostly due to wavedashing (Which might be back?)..
The speed of targets that get knocked back is pretty obviously cranked up a bit, but that's not what's going to make it much faster from a gameplay standpoint. From what I'm being told by people in the scene that are there pretty much solely to test the game, aerial landing lag is lower on many moves, perhaps just generally across the board. Also hearing that you can now do tilts and side/down smashes out of a dash, which - if true - is pretty significant and would also contribute to the game's speed. No word yet on whether or not the 7 frame input delay of 4 is still there, but even just cutting that to 3-4 would go a long way toward the game feeling and handling faster.
Impressions are that it's definitely faster than 4, but not like, lightyears faster or anything.
Huh. The echo character thing is odd. What makes Lucina an echo character but not Dr Mario? A lot of the characters that seems like echoes aren’t labeled as such in the character trailers. It’s not a big deal, just odd.
Man, I hope we get Impa as an echo character for Sheik. If we get that and some single player content I’ll be totally happy with this game.
Echo characters only have very slight gameplay differences. Dr. Mario is quite a bit different from regular Mario - not COMPLETELY different, sure, but the changes are more noticeable and obvious than with Lucina and Marth.
it's all in the animations right?
dr. mario doesn't have the fludd down b
It seems like a legacy thing, like if they had made Dr Mario today he surely would have been an echo character. But his very slight decloning from 4 made him not qualify anymore.
No, they wouldn't have.
Echo characters have VERY TINY DIFFERENCES. Dark pit's arrows are slightly different, and he's got a different angle on his side-B. That's it. Dr. Mario has different properties on almost every attack. It adds up to a different type of character that is slower and more powerful.
They're just making echoes so they can add more characters without doing any work on them besides the model.
Huh. The echo character thing is odd. What makes Lucina an echo character but not Dr Mario? A lot of the characters that seems like echoes aren’t labeled as such in the character trailers. It’s not a big deal, just odd.
Man, I hope we get Impa as an echo character for Sheik. If we get that and some single player content I’ll be totally happy with this game.
Echo characters only have very slight gameplay differences. Dr. Mario is quite a bit different from regular Mario - not COMPLETELY different, sure, but the changes are more noticeable and obvious than with Lucina and Marth.
it's all in the animations right?
dr. mario doesn't have the fludd down b
It seems like a legacy thing, like if they had made Dr Mario today he surely would have been an echo character. But his very slight decloning from 4 made him not qualify anymore.
No, they wouldn't have.
Echo characters have VERY TINY DIFFERENCES. Dark pit's arrows are slightly different, and he's got a different angle on his side-B. That's it. Dr. Mario has different properties on almost every attack. It adds up to a different type of character that is slower and more powerful.
They're just making echoes so they can add more characters without doing any work on them besides the model.
I mean that if the concept of echo characters existed then, Dr Mario would never have been given such a distinct set of stats. I don't expect them to make characters like him anymore, which makes him a weird holdover in the roster now. Really he would have just been a costume. I think it would be better if they expanded the definition of echo characters a bit to include characters like him.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
the line between port and new game is vague, it's waaay less of a straight port than mario kart switch was but still somehow doesn't quite feel like a whole new version.
It is basically a port, with a few new features to the same Smash 4 engine and then character updates. Far closer to a port than it is a new game.
... Does this actually matter?
It does not, but it's not like the same can't be said about uh...any topic of discussion relevant to this or any other video game, if you're trying hard to be a goose about it.
The point is that trying to start some "this is just a port" thing is two things:
1) cynical
2) not true
They have actual new mechanics at play in this, there's more stage design / options going on, there's more characters... it's a new game. It's not an HD up res project. It's the next iteration.
A friend just pointed this out to me: in the round on the Breath of the Wild stage, the tower never broke. On Saffron City, no Pokemon ever popped out of the tower. Frigate Orpheon didn't spin on that round between MKLeo and ZeRo. There might be a stage hazard toggle?!
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
A friend just pointed this out to me: in the round on the Breath of the Wild stage, the tower never broke. On Saffron City, no Pokemon ever popped out of the tower. Frigate Orpheon didn't spin on that round between MKLeo and ZeRo. There might be a stage hazard toggle?!
I was thinking the exact same thing. That was pretty heavily requested, along with Battlefield mode, right?
the line between port and new game is vague, it's waaay less of a straight port than mario kart switch was but still somehow doesn't quite feel like a whole new version.
It is basically a port, with a few new features to the same Smash 4 engine and then character updates. Far closer to a port than it is a new game.
... Does this actually matter?
It does not, but it's not like the same can't be said about uh...any topic of discussion relevant to this or any other video game, if you're trying hard to be a goose about it.
The point is that trying to start some "this is just a port" thing is two things:
1) cynical
2) not true
They have actual new mechanics at play in this, there's more stage design / options going on, there's more characters... it's a new game. It's not an HD up res project. It's the next iteration.
I don't think anyone involved in this discussion in this thread has gone so far as to say it's "just a port." I've said it basically is, and more accurately described it as closer to a port than it is a new game. Which I still maintain.
I acknowledge that it's a credible argument, you can disagree without trying to invalidate the entire thing. I'm not attacking everyone on the other side of this as naive and wrong, you can just participate in the discussion or not.
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KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
Looks like no dashing through shields, which I actually don't like at all, because crossup pivot grabs are a great part of the game.
the line between port and new game is vague, it's waaay less of a straight port than mario kart switch was but still somehow doesn't quite feel like a whole new version.
It is basically a port, with a few new features to the same Smash 4 engine and then character updates. Far closer to a port than it is a new game.
... Does this actually matter?
It does not, but it's not like the same can't be said about uh...any topic of discussion relevant to this or any other video game, if you're trying hard to be a goose about it.
The point is that trying to start some "this is just a port" thing is two things:
1) cynical
2) not true
They have actual new mechanics at play in this, there's more stage design / options going on, there's more characters... it's a new game. It's not an HD up res project. It's the next iteration.
I don't think anyone involved in this discussion in this thread has gone so far as to say it's "just a port." I've said it basically is, and more accurately described it as closer to a port than it is a new game. Which I still maintain.
I acknowledge that it's a credible argument, you can disagree without trying to invalidate the entire thing. I'm not attacking everyone on the other side of this as naive and wrong, you can just participate in the discussion or not.
You may not have, but the other person vehemently defending the port status asked someone that said it was a new game if they'd like to buy a bridge - things like that are uncalled for and literally insulting.
Yeah if she's as good as she was in Wii U, she needs some tweaking.
I am already hearing that she is definitely not at her Smash 4 level, but that Bayonetta being Bayonetta still exists in some form.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
the line between port and new game is vague, it's waaay less of a straight port than mario kart switch was but still somehow doesn't quite feel like a whole new version.
It is basically a port, with a few new features to the same Smash 4 engine and then character updates. Far closer to a port than it is a new game.
... Does this actually matter?
It does not, but it's not like the same can't be said about uh...any topic of discussion relevant to this or any other video game, if you're trying hard to be a goose about it.
The point is that trying to start some "this is just a port" thing is two things:
1) cynical
2) not true
They have actual new mechanics at play in this, there's more stage design / options going on, there's more characters... it's a new game. It's not an HD up res project. It's the next iteration.
I don't think anyone involved in this discussion in this thread has gone so far as to say it's "just a port." I've said it basically is, and more accurately described it as closer to a port than it is a new game. Which I still maintain.
I acknowledge that it's a credible argument, you can disagree without trying to invalidate the entire thing. I'm not attacking everyone on the other side of this as naive and wrong, you can just participate in the discussion or not.
You may not have, but the other person vehemently defending the port status asked someone that said it was a new game if they'd like to buy a bridge - things like that are uncalled for and literally insulting.
Okay well I don't stand behind that, lol
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KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
edited June 2018
I am also hearing that Sakurai literally shook his head at the Bayonetta pick in the tournament just a few moments ago. Larry also confirmed that Fox's FAir -> Footstool is still a thing.
Kasyn on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
They just said they turned off stage hazards, so I feel like that’s news.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
This really is going to be a Smash for everyone.
I wonder if they are just gonna go all out and have rulesets that reflect each game or something, like Capcom does with Street Fighter games.
I'll note that the Bayonetta blowout happened on a stage with one of the lowest ceilings in the game, against a character with a big hitbox. That was the conditions for Bayonetta, but this first round of the Finals is much, much closer (though Bayonetta still won...).
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I would like to get those headsets they used in these smash and splatoon tourneys.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
bayo's witch time seems to have moved from her down b to her final smash
Witch Time was always part of both. The down B is a counter move that puts the Witch Time effect on the enemy that hits her. The Final Smash instantly puts Witch Time on everyone, and then feeds them to Gomorrah if Bayo does enough damage to them when they're slowed.
bayo's witch time seems to have moved from her down b to her final smash
Witch Time was always part of both. The down B is a counter move that puts the Witch Time effect on the enemy that hits her. The Final Smash instantly puts Witch Time on everyone, and then feeds them to Gomorrah if Bayo does enough damage to them when they're slowed.
then, it seems to have been removed from her counter
bayo's witch time seems to have moved from her down b to her final smash
Witch Time was always part of both. The down B is a counter move that puts the Witch Time effect on the enemy that hits her. The Final Smash instantly puts Witch Time on everyone, and then feeds them to Gomorrah if Bayo does enough damage to them when they're slowed.
then, it seems to have been removed from her counter
bayo's witch time seems to have moved from her down b to her final smash
Witch Time was always part of both. The down B is a counter move that puts the Witch Time effect on the enemy that hits her. The Final Smash instantly puts Witch Time on everyone, and then feeds them to Gomorrah if Bayo does enough damage to them when they're slowed.
then, it seems to have been removed from her counter
Really?
What is her down b doing now, then?
nevermind it's actually that I'm dumb - thought it was replaced with bat within since they didn't seem to be going for the counter during matches
Posts
The speed of targets that get knocked back is pretty obviously cranked up a bit, but that's not what's going to make it much faster from a gameplay standpoint. From what I'm being told by people in the scene that are there pretty much solely to test the game, aerial landing lag is lower on many moves, perhaps just generally across the board. Also hearing that you can now do tilts and side/down smashes out of a dash, which - if true - is pretty significant and would also contribute to the game's speed. No word yet on whether or not the 7 frame input delay of 4 is still there, but even just cutting that to 3-4 would go a long way toward the game feeling and handling faster.
Impressions are that it's definitely faster than 4, but not like, lightyears faster or anything.
Steam: pazython
Echo characters have VERY TINY DIFFERENCES. Dark pit's arrows are slightly different, and he's got a different angle on his side-B. That's it. Dr. Mario has different properties on almost every attack. It adds up to a different type of character that is slower and more powerful.
They're just making echoes so they can add more characters without doing any work on them besides the model.
I mean that if the concept of echo characters existed then, Dr Mario would never have been given such a distinct set of stats. I don't expect them to make characters like him anymore, which makes him a weird holdover in the roster now. Really he would have just been a costume. I think it would be better if they expanded the definition of echo characters a bit to include characters like him.
1) cynical
2) not true
They have actual new mechanics at play in this, there's more stage design / options going on, there's more characters... it's a new game. It's not an HD up res project. It's the next iteration.
I was thinking the exact same thing. That was pretty heavily requested, along with Battlefield mode, right?
Yeah if she's as good as she was in Wii U, she needs some tweaking.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
I don't think anyone involved in this discussion in this thread has gone so far as to say it's "just a port." I've said it basically is, and more accurately described it as closer to a port than it is a new game. Which I still maintain.
I acknowledge that it's a credible argument, you can disagree without trying to invalidate the entire thing. I'm not attacking everyone on the other side of this as naive and wrong, you can just participate in the discussion or not.
You may not have, but the other person vehemently defending the port status asked someone that said it was a new game if they'd like to buy a bridge - things like that are uncalled for and literally insulting.
Is that it gives the superior player FAR more victims and targets to score points on.
I am already hearing that she is definitely not at her Smash 4 level, but that Bayonetta being Bayonetta still exists in some form.
Yeah...that’s not the mode to do by score.
It instantly removes the team advantage.
Okay well I don't stand behind that, lol
I wonder if they are just gonna go all out and have rulesets that reflect each game or something, like Capcom does with Street Fighter games.
Hazardless Magicant
Nah, this is different. The stage hazards are definitely turned off, or at least turned WAY down.
If it were Omega, the platforms wouldn't move and the ceiling wouldn't be on the tower.
.... I can't stop staring at the background of this level. The birds flying by.. the eclipse over the sun...
I would definitely pay the cost of a DLC to not have Bayonetta or Ice Climbers in this game.
It’s still Magicant.
Witch Time was always part of both. The down B is a counter move that puts the Witch Time effect on the enemy that hits her. The Final Smash instantly puts Witch Time on everyone, and then feeds them to Gomorrah if Bayo does enough damage to them when they're slowed.
Yes.
then, it seems to have been removed from her counter
isn't it back to being the pokemon switch?
Oh, right, duh.
Also, no character reveal after the tournament after all.
Really?
What is her down b doing now, then?
nevermind it's actually that I'm dumb - thought it was replaced with bat within since they didn't seem to be going for the counter during matches