Bethesda hasn't produced a quality game since Daggerfall.
Daggerfall? A quality game? Bwahahahaha!
Yeah, that game sported hundreds of randomly generated dungeons, some of them with large sections you couldn't get into due to no path leading there, rooms that randomly killed you if you touched the floor, sections where you just fell through the world and had to reload...
I played it because I could just avoid those dungeons, and the rest of the game was pretty good. But quality? Meh.
SOMEONE never bothered getting Teleport. That is required for me to even THINK about going into dungeons, along with Water Breathing. Do you know why?
Teleport will take you out of the Void.
You should feel bad about insulting the work of the Drunken Dwarves. They worked HARD to break the world (and adventurers' heads).
Also: People who played the game without cheats are masochists. One got you out of the void, another allowed you to go to the quest item locations, and another turned on God Mode for dealing with those Goddamn overlords. Hate overlords so much.
EDIT: About the floors killing you randomly... perhaps you shouldn't have jumped down from the top of a room?
So it appears that everyone agrees that Bethesda puts out ES games that are fairly decent but improve later on after the expansion packs come out along with the mods.
All those who played morrowind and Oblivion vanilla style, go back and mod the hell out of that bitch and come back and talk to us.
But does the ability to download kick ass mods make the game better or does it highlight how flawed it was in the beginning?
Oh, and the guy that did the writing for the Dark Brotherhood questline is supposed to be the creative director for Fallout 3, i.e. he is the one in charge of how the story will go and be written.
It kinda highlights what could have been. But of course, since each person wants different mods on you could never have made the game to be "what could have been" for each person, as well you find things that are needed but you wont find until after development.
But on the other hand, a lack of mods means there is no "better" to compare it to.
I played both Morrowind and Oblivion at release. And Oblivion was by far the better of the two. It ran better on comparable machines[I.E. machines that were high quality for the time], it had a better, easier to work with interface. It had many less annoyances than morrowind did. People didnt like it because they were expecting Morrowind 2: Oblivion and not "Other part of the world 4: Oblivion".
People complain that "all the oblivion cities were alike", but every single freaking tomb in morrowind was basicially the same freaking thing over and over again, and on top of it, they are comparing the un-mod'd Oblivion with the Morrowind that they tailor made for themselves.
Oh, and the guy that did the writing for the Dark Brotherhood questline is supposed to be the creative director for Fallout 3, i.e. he is the one in charge of how the story will go and be written.
That actually doesn't make me optimistic. The Dark Brotherhood questline is the shining, glorious example of how Oblivion really isn't as good as it could have been.
Yes, Cyrodiil is indeed a different part of Tamriel. I had no problems with the new venue: It seems to be tradition to highlight a new area of the Empire.
I had NO problems with the interior tilesets being identical.
I DID have a problem with the interface, which seemed to be designed for consoles rather than PC. It took a mod to allow the player to see more than about 6 items in his inventory.
I DID have a problem with there being no memorable characters, and a rather lackluster story compared to Morrowind's.
I DID have a problem with the uninspired designs of the weapons and armor, all of it being standard fantasy fare, and none of the neater styles which probably would have been imported. (Bonemold was better than Imperial Chain, and Dreugh completely schooled both types, for example.)
EDIT: For clarification's sake, I played both on PC, at launch. Hell, I have the Ordinator figure from the Collector's Edition sitting here, staring at me, calling me scum.
Oblivion in general was too patch-needy to make worth playing for me, but after a good chunk of time spent wading through thousands of shitty user created content and coming away with some real gems, I liked the game for a time. Maybe I'll even go 'finish' it to some extent someday.
I DID have a problem with there being no memorable characters, and a rather lackluster story compared to Morrowind's.
This is a concern for FO3 because it isn't really something you can easily patch ;p
Also I hope they have more than 3 voice actors now.
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
As for the question of whether all the awesome player made mods mean oblivions a good game or demonstrate how lacking the original content was, its the second one.
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited January 2008
I dunno.
99% of the mods I've seen on the various interwebs that actually add content as opposed to graphical or balance mods have had a tendency to be along the lines of;
-finding the buster sword in an easily found barrel.
-adding retardedly difficult enemies to various places regardless of player level.
-companion modules meant to be used with nude mods by very, very lonely people.
In any case, though, for better or for worse, Bethsoft actually listens to their community.
Hell, it's probably half the reason most of the stuff that people are complaining about ended up as they are.
Honestly, I don't know why people are in a tizzy. Without Bethesda, there wouldn't be a Fallout 3 at all. The franchise would be pretty much cold.
Now, you're free to distrust Bethesda if you want. Maybe you don't think they can do it justice. Maybe you don't like the Elder Scrolls series. Maybe you liked Morrowind but didn't like Oblivion, and you're worried they're going to do it too much in Oblivion's style. Maybe you liked Oblivion but Morrowind was too big for you, and you're worried that they're going to go back to that for the wasteland. Maybe you think that Fallout 1 is basically Jesus' semen sculpted into a game, and your head is shoved too far up The Master's ass for you to smell the shit you spew.
Well, nobody here thinks like that last one. Hopefully.
But the fact is, Bethesda is reviving the title. They're giving us Fallout where there would likely be no Fallout at all. That's enough for me- Bethesda are good folk. Sure- I didn't like Oblivion as much as Morrowind. So fucking what? Bethesda's never let me down. Oblivion was still a solid game, for its flaws. And goddamn, Morrowind was monolithic. I trust Bethesda to pull this off. They've got a lot of pressure, and they've proven that they're worth the trust.
As for the question of whether all the awesome player made mods mean oblivions a good game or demonstrate how lacking the original content was, its the second one.
Was Oblivion really all that bad? Come on now, be honest.
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PharezonStruggle is an illusion.Victory is in the Qun.Registered Userregular
As for the question of whether all the awesome player made mods mean oblivions a good game or demonstrate how lacking the original content was, its the second one.
Was Oblivion really all that bad? Come on now, be honest.
As for the question of whether all the awesome player made mods mean oblivions a good game or demonstrate how lacking the original content was, its the second one.
Was Oblivion really all that bad? Come on now, be honest.
You cannot reason with Fallout drones.
I know you usually love to mention it to taunt me, but I wonder just how big an internet detonation it would cause if a Fallout port were announced for the Wii.
As for the question of whether all the awesome player made mods mean oblivions a good game or demonstrate how lacking the original content was, its the second one.
Was Oblivion really all that bad? Come on now, be honest.
You cannot reason with Fallout drones.
I know you usually love to mention it to taunt me, but I wonder just how big an internet detonation it would cause if a Fallout port were announced for the Wii.
As for the question of whether all the awesome player made mods mean oblivions a good game or demonstrate how lacking the original content was, its the second one.
Was Oblivion really all that bad? Come on now, be honest.
You cannot reason with Fallout drones.
I know you usually love to mention it to taunt me, but I wonder just how big an internet detonation it would cause if a Fallout port were announced for the Wii.
Again, the entire Almsivi plotline was fantastic writing. The vast majority of the books in the game are fantastic writing. Most of the dialogue in Morrowind is fantastic. Daggerfall's writing is ludicrously in depth.
oh wait oblivion sux lol
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PharezonStruggle is an illusion.Victory is in the Qun.Registered Userregular
Again, the entire Almsivi plotline was fantastic writing. The vast majority of the books in the game are fantastic writing. Most of the dialogue in Morrowind is fantastic. Daggerfall's writing is ludicrously in depth.
oh wait oblivion sux lol
I don't remember did Oblivion have very many books specific to the game itself?
Again, the entire Almsivi plotline was fantastic writing. The vast majority of the books in the game are fantastic writing. Most of the dialogue in Morrowind is fantastic. Daggerfall's writing is ludicrously in depth.
oh wait oblivion sux lol
I don't remember did Oblivion have very many books specific to the game itself?
Quite a few I think. Unfortunately random loot meant a lot of them never got found. I didn't like that. I didn't like the all preset morrowind system either though, so what can you do?
Man, in Daggerfall, every shop was worth going into. I loved that game.
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
Again, the entire Almsivi plotline was fantastic writing. The vast majority of the books in the game are fantastic writing. Most of the dialogue in Morrowind is fantastic. Daggerfall's writing is ludicrously in depth.
oh wait oblivion sux lol
I don't remember did Oblivion have very many books specific to the game itself?
A lot of them were focused on the Ayleids, I remember a series on a failed expedition to Akavir.
Again, the entire Almsivi plotline was fantastic writing. The vast majority of the books in the game are fantastic writing. Most of the dialogue in Morrowind is fantastic. Daggerfall's writing is ludicrously in depth.
oh wait oblivion sux lol
I don't remember did Oblivion have very many books specific to the game itself?
Quite a few I think. Unfortunately random loot meant a lot of them never got found. I didn't like that. I didn't like the all preset morrowind system either though, so what can you do?
Man, in Daggerfall, every shop was worth going into. I loved that game.
I spent a disturbing amount of time robbing clothing stores.
Again, the entire Almsivi plotline was fantastic writing. The vast majority of the books in the game are fantastic writing. Most of the dialogue in Morrowind is fantastic. Daggerfall's writing is ludicrously in depth.
oh wait oblivion sux lol
I don't remember did Oblivion have very many books specific to the game itself?
A lot of them were focused on the Ayleids, I remember a series on a failed expedition to Akavir.
Again, the entire Almsivi plotline was fantastic writing. The vast majority of the books in the game are fantastic writing. Most of the dialogue in Morrowind is fantastic. Daggerfall's writing is ludicrously in depth.
oh wait oblivion sux lol
I don't remember did Oblivion have very many books specific to the game itself?
Quite a few I think. Unfortunately random loot meant a lot of them never got found. I didn't like that. I didn't like the all preset morrowind system either though, so what can you do?
Man, in Daggerfall, every shop was worth going into. I loved that game.
I spent a disturbing amount of time robbing clothing stores.
In my defense, I was like 12 at the time.
I remember stuff like going into an armour store and seeing HOLY SHIT THE LAST PIECE OF DAEDRIC ARMOUR I NEED TO COMPLETE MY SET and flipping the fuck out because it was incredibly expensive, and then going to get a bank loan so I could afford it. I later skipped out on it and the next time I went to that town the guards arrested me and I was thrown in the clink for 2 months, which meant failing a quest, which meant the quest giver sent assassins to kill me.
None of that kind of stuff happens in Morrowind or Oblivion. Every day was different in Daggerfall.
People complain that "all the oblivion cities were alike", but every single freaking tomb in morrowind was basicially the same freaking thing over and over again, and on top of it, they are comparing the un-mod'd Oblivion with the Morrowind that they tailor made for themselves.
They were similar, but that just made the unique ones stand out all the more.
There was this one cave I found that I thought "hmm, this is kind of big..." and it just kept going and GOING... it took me like an hour and a half to get all the way through this labyrinthine caves that turned into a huge cavern with walkways and submerged buildings and then leading into a caldera with a huge forge and a unique hammer hidden in a treasure chest that was magically suspended out of view unless you were actually standing on the over-sized anvil.
When I made it to there it had taken so much time and I was just blown away by this place that would probably never be seen by most players.
It's a choice given to you. I'm glad I had the option to fast travel when I wanted it.
Well it certainly came in handy just going back to your house for an armor change or if you're doing, say, Fighter's Guild quests, where they force to to travel to hell and back three times for one single contract.
But it shouldn't be usually used.
I'm tempted to do a Let's Play for Oblivion with no fast travel, period. The thing is that with all the places along the roads to visit, it would take forever to do. Seriously, I wrote a few days of a journal for one of my Oblivion characters, and with all the ruins and forts to explore, it took me five days to get from one city to another.
It's never healthy game design to force your player to play a certain way. Especially in a free-form game like this one. However people want to play it is by definition the best way to play it.
Removing or limiting fast travel would just have people complaining about how long travel is between cities (see Assassin's Creed).
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited January 2008
They shouldn't have made everywhere immediately accessible at least.
Where you have to actually get to the city in question first in order to open it up to fast travel.
Edit: Didn't AC give you the option to just fast-forward to those cities after the first time you visited them?
I had a problem with normal travel in oblivion. That goddamned compass was TOO good. I had to check out every little mark that came up, not to mention close every single Oblivion gate I found.
Arrath on
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PharezonStruggle is an illusion.Victory is in the Qun.Registered Userregular
I had a problem with normal travel in oblivion. That goddamned compass was TOO good. I had to check out every little mark that came up, not to mention close every single Oblivion gate I found.
Posts
SOMEONE never bothered getting Teleport. That is required for me to even THINK about going into dungeons, along with Water Breathing. Do you know why?
Teleport will take you out of the Void.
You should feel bad about insulting the work of the Drunken Dwarves. They worked HARD to break the world (and adventurers' heads).
Also: People who played the game without cheats are masochists. One got you out of the void, another allowed you to go to the quest item locations, and another turned on God Mode for dealing with those Goddamn overlords. Hate overlords so much.
EDIT: About the floors killing you randomly... perhaps you shouldn't have jumped down from the top of a room?
It kinda highlights what could have been. But of course, since each person wants different mods on you could never have made the game to be "what could have been" for each person, as well you find things that are needed but you wont find until after development.
But on the other hand, a lack of mods means there is no "better" to compare it to.
I played both Morrowind and Oblivion at release. And Oblivion was by far the better of the two. It ran better on comparable machines[I.E. machines that were high quality for the time], it had a better, easier to work with interface. It had many less annoyances than morrowind did. People didnt like it because they were expecting Morrowind 2: Oblivion and not "Other part of the world 4: Oblivion".
People complain that "all the oblivion cities were alike", but every single freaking tomb in morrowind was basicially the same freaking thing over and over again, and on top of it, they are comparing the un-mod'd Oblivion with the Morrowind that they tailor made for themselves.
That actually doesn't make me optimistic. The Dark Brotherhood questline is the shining, glorious example of how Oblivion really isn't as good as it could have been.
I had NO problems with the interior tilesets being identical.
I DID have a problem with the interface, which seemed to be designed for consoles rather than PC. It took a mod to allow the player to see more than about 6 items in his inventory.
I DID have a problem with there being no memorable characters, and a rather lackluster story compared to Morrowind's.
I DID have a problem with the uninspired designs of the weapons and armor, all of it being standard fantasy fare, and none of the neater styles which probably would have been imported. (Bonemold was better than Imperial Chain, and Dreugh completely schooled both types, for example.)
EDIT: For clarification's sake, I played both on PC, at launch. Hell, I have the Ordinator figure from the Collector's Edition sitting here, staring at me, calling me scum.
This is a concern for FO3 because it isn't really something you can easily patch ;p
Also I hope they have more than 3 voice actors now.
Compared to who, exactly?
Crassius Curio?
The average Ordinator is more memorable than most anyone from Oblivion.
What other game has guards that actively state their distaste of you?
"We're watching you. Scum."
kpop appreciation station i also like to tweet some
If I wasn't about to eat, I would post a link to squidi explaining the various levels of pun hell you are going to burn in for that one.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
As for the question of whether all the awesome player made mods mean oblivions a good game or demonstrate how lacking the original content was, its the second one.
99% of the mods I've seen on the various interwebs that actually add content as opposed to graphical or balance mods have had a tendency to be along the lines of;
-finding the buster sword in an easily found barrel.
-adding retardedly difficult enemies to various places regardless of player level.
-companion modules meant to be used with nude mods by very, very lonely people.
In any case, though, for better or for worse, Bethsoft actually listens to their community.
Hell, it's probably half the reason most of the stuff that people are complaining about ended up as they are.
Now, you're free to distrust Bethesda if you want. Maybe you don't think they can do it justice. Maybe you don't like the Elder Scrolls series. Maybe you liked Morrowind but didn't like Oblivion, and you're worried they're going to do it too much in Oblivion's style. Maybe you liked Oblivion but Morrowind was too big for you, and you're worried that they're going to go back to that for the wasteland. Maybe you think that Fallout 1 is basically Jesus' semen sculpted into a game, and your head is shoved too far up The Master's ass for you to smell the shit you spew.
Well, nobody here thinks like that last one. Hopefully.
But the fact is, Bethesda is reviving the title. They're giving us Fallout where there would likely be no Fallout at all. That's enough for me- Bethesda are good folk. Sure- I didn't like Oblivion as much as Morrowind. So fucking what? Bethesda's never let me down. Oblivion was still a solid game, for its flaws. And goddamn, Morrowind was monolithic. I trust Bethesda to pull this off. They've got a lot of pressure, and they've proven that they're worth the trust.
You doubting s'wits.
Was Oblivion really all that bad? Come on now, be honest.
You cannot reason with Fallout drones.
I know you usually love to mention it to taunt me, but I wonder just how big an internet detonation it would cause if a Fallout port were announced for the Wii.
Fallout fans. NMA.
This is what the Master was after.
A united, unstoppable force, that has the tenacity and stubbornness to become the dominant race of the planet.
I praise you for your thoughtful analysis of the situation and a humorous declaration of your opinion.
YOU SHUT YOUR FUCKING PIE HOLE!
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
It would be like the return of the reapers.
The reapers are alien, unknowable.
Well, with hope they recognize and will correct for this stylistic defect.
oh wait oblivion sux lol
I don't remember did Oblivion have very many books specific to the game itself?
Quite a few I think. Unfortunately random loot meant a lot of them never got found. I didn't like that. I didn't like the all preset morrowind system either though, so what can you do?
Man, in Daggerfall, every shop was worth going into. I loved that game.
In my defense, I was like 12 at the time.
I liked reading about Akavir a lot.
I remember stuff like going into an armour store and seeing HOLY SHIT THE LAST PIECE OF DAEDRIC ARMOUR I NEED TO COMPLETE MY SET and flipping the fuck out because it was incredibly expensive, and then going to get a bank loan so I could afford it. I later skipped out on it and the next time I went to that town the guards arrested me and I was thrown in the clink for 2 months, which meant failing a quest, which meant the quest giver sent assassins to kill me.
None of that kind of stuff happens in Morrowind or Oblivion. Every day was different in Daggerfall.
They were similar, but that just made the unique ones stand out all the more.
There was this one cave I found that I thought "hmm, this is kind of big..." and it just kept going and GOING... it took me like an hour and a half to get all the way through this labyrinthine caves that turned into a huge cavern with walkways and submerged buildings and then leading into a caldera with a huge forge and a unique hammer hidden in a treasure chest that was magically suspended out of view unless you were actually standing on the over-sized anvil.
When I made it to there it had taken so much time and I was just blown away by this place that would probably never be seen by most players.
Play without fast travel and it's a much better game.
Well it certainly came in handy just going back to your house for an armor change or if you're doing, say, Fighter's Guild quests, where they force to to travel to hell and back three times for one single contract.
But it shouldn't be usually used.
I'm tempted to do a Let's Play for Oblivion with no fast travel, period. The thing is that with all the places along the roads to visit, it would take forever to do. Seriously, I wrote a few days of a journal for one of my Oblivion characters, and with all the ruins and forts to explore, it took me five days to get from one city to another.
Removing or limiting fast travel would just have people complaining about how long travel is between cities (see Assassin's Creed).
Where you have to actually get to the city in question first in order to open it up to fast travel.
Edit: Didn't AC give you the option to just fast-forward to those cities after the first time you visited them?
That, I agree with. It didn't make much sense to open every major city from the get-go, but other than that I think it was fine.
Just disable it