I wonder if losing your humanity to the implants will be an issue in the game.
For example, you will start having cold and technical dialogue options.
I could be mistaken but I think I remember that they said it's not a thing in the game.
Yeah I think they junked the idea because it would be difficult to integrate into a game without a DM who can balance it out a bit. I suspect they will limit how much chrome goes in based on a more direct barrier like currency or merchant availability. Additionally, given some of the political troubles they've had, I can understand why they would be super hesitant to wade into anything like "changing your body means losing your humanity."
I was super impressed, and mildly weirded out, during the demo video thought when they did the eye implant and the hand thing. Doing this in the first person is going to help hammer home some of the decisions you're making are being done to you and not some avatar.
It's increasingly becoming the stance: To make sure that the bad bits about augs are the companies attached and not 'bodily autonomy is witchcraft'.
Heck I've heard even Shadowrun 6th edition is changing the language to make it clear that it's a magic problem, not an empathy/becoming less 'human' one.
Cyberpunk has always been summed up best, to me, by the phrase "high tech, low life". Sure, there's all kinds of amazing tech, and that tech is forcing reinterpretations of what it means to be human, what it means to be your own being, etc. But the story or narrative focus keeps coming back to the "ordinary" struggles of people trying to get by. Which is why something like star wars isn't cyberpunk and something like GitS threads the line enough that folks have trouble classifying it.
The basic gist can (and usually does) have mega corps that are as strong as (or stronger than) nation states, or it can have some forms of body modification (sacred vs profane, "humanity measure", losing something indefinable but precious for practical and immediate advantage), but those are just interpretations of the basic concept of "high tech, low life". If a story is focused on how nations are moving and the politics of espionage or war, or exploration, it ain't cyberpunk. If it's about a cop doing a thing because that's the job, or a person doing work with shady organizations because they made some bad decisions in life, or the struggles of a woman trying to hold together a family and a community (in a world gone sideways), that's probably cyberpunk. Is it a world that we could see as our own, through a glass and darkly, and is the focus on "ordinary" things? Cyberpunk.
If you go back to the roots with authors like Gibson, the heart of cyberpunk was pushback against the idea that technological progress is intrinsically linked with human progress. The classic Gibson tale is a world where life has gotten progressively worse for everyone except the mega-rich because of technological advances, and the best anyone else can do is survive.
"The future is here; it's just not evenly distributed." -- Gibson
As I said upthread, I think the real downfall of Cyberpunk as a genre is that reality has basically become Gibsonian cyberpunk, but without the cool shades. I mean I just had a big chat with some folks about how the best way to avoid surveillance isn't to turn off your phone, because that's too conspicuous; it's to give your phone to someone who lives with you who will go through the rote actions you'd go through on a daily basis ("spend X time checking Facebook; take the bus to class"). Because anything else is enough of a deviation that law enforcement can pick up on it. To quote the terrifying convo, "The only people who turn off their phones for long periods time to drop off the grid are criminals."
Cyberpunk has always been summed up best, to me, by the phrase "high tech, low life". Sure, there's all kinds of amazing tech, and that tech is forcing reinterpretations of what it means to be human, what it means to be your own being, etc. But the story or narrative focus keeps coming back to the "ordinary" struggles of people trying to get by. Which is why something like star wars isn't cyberpunk and something like GitS threads the line enough that folks have trouble classifying it.
The basic gist can (and usually does) have mega corps that are as strong as (or stronger than) nation states, or it can have some forms of body modification (sacred vs profane, "humanity measure", losing something indefinable but precious for practical and immediate advantage), but those are just interpretations of the basic concept of "high tech, low life". If a story is focused on how nations are moving and the politics of espionage or war, or exploration, it ain't cyberpunk. If it's about a cop doing a thing because that's the job, or a person doing work with shady organizations because they made some bad decisions in life, or the struggles of a woman trying to hold together a family and a community (in a world gone sideways), that's probably cyberpunk. Is it a world that we could see as our own, through a glass and darkly, and is the focus on "ordinary" things? Cyberpunk.
If you go back to the roots with authors like Gibson, the heart of cyberpunk was pushback against the idea that technological progress is intrinsically linked with human progress. The classic Gibson tale is a world where life has gotten progressively worse for everyone except the mega-rich because of technological advances, and the best anyone else can do is survive.
"The future is here; it's just not evenly distributed." -- Gibson
As I said upthread, I think the real downfall of Cyberpunk as a genre is that reality has basically become Gibsonian cyberpunk, but without the cool shades. I mean I just had a big chat with some folks about how the best way to avoid surveillance isn't to turn off your phone, because that's too conspicuous; it's to give your phone to someone who lives with you who will go through the rote actions you'd go through on a daily basis ("spend X time checking Facebook; take the bus to class"). Because anything else is enough of a deviation that law enforcement can pick up on it. To quote the terrifying convo, "The only people who turn off their phones for long periods time to drop off the grid are criminals."
It's the reason that Gibson's current work has two tracks right now - near future that's mostly like ours but worse and current events told as if it was science fiction. He's got some far future stuff in The Peripheral, but even there he's mostly focusing on just what tech will be like in a decade or two.
I wonder if losing your humanity to the implants will be an issue in the game.
For example, you will start having cold and technical dialogue options.
I could be mistaken but I think I remember that they said it's not a thing in the game.
I really hope it's not. I was fine with the penalties for getting all drugged up in Witcher 3 because you could extend the toxicity meter, however I don't want to have to worry about min-maxing in this game and not having real freedom to create a character. I'm sure there'll be something in there to prevent you from becoming a toaster but I hope it's not the Deus Ex route of "hey you're oversparking your CPU widgets."
One of these days, we will have a disaster with a smart house flipping out.
With how many smart devices are already controlled by Russian or Chinese hackers, yeah it's inevitable.
(see also: why my smart devices do not get to join wifi networks)
Don't worry. The NSA and FBI mandated back doors required by law in every design will protect us. These are, after all, institutions famously immune to abuse and need not be impeded by oversight.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
I wonder if losing your humanity to the implants will be an issue in the game.
For example, you will start having cold and technical dialogue options.
I could be mistaken but I think I remember that they said it's not a thing in the game.
I really hope it's not. I was fine with the penalties for getting all drugged up in Witcher 3 because you could extend the toxicity meter, however I don't want to have to worry about min-maxing in this game and not having real freedom to create a character. I'm sure there'll be something in there to prevent you from becoming a toaster but I hope it's not the Deus Ex route of "hey you're oversparking your CPU widgets."
Yea I totally agree. I hope I am remembering this correctly!
I wonder if losing your humanity to the implants will be an issue in the game.
For example, you will start having cold and technical dialogue options.
I could be mistaken but I think I remember that they said it's not a thing in the game.
I really hope it's not. I was fine with the penalties for getting all drugged up in Witcher 3 because you could extend the toxicity meter, however I don't want to have to worry about min-maxing in this game and not having real freedom to create a character. I'm sure there'll be something in there to prevent you from becoming a toaster but I hope it's not the Deus Ex route of "hey you're oversparking your CPU widgets."
Yea I totally agree. I hope I am remembering this correctly!
My big hope with this game is that there is a good mix of "combat" missions and just living in the world stuff. For all the flack Rockstar gets these days, one thing they are very good at is creating a balance where not every mission is about fighting and even the fighting ones do setup to show off the setting and the motivations of the characters you are going to get into conflict with.
It's increasingly becoming the stance: To make sure that the bad bits about augs are the companies attached and not 'bodily autonomy is witchcraft'.
Heck I've heard even Shadowrun 6th edition is changing the language to make it clear that it's a magic problem, not an empathy/becoming less 'human' one.
To be fair, SR always played it off as more lore based - Pattern issue, tying into Earthdawn. The less meat you had (replaced with metal anyway), the more your Pattern changed - which made magic less effective on you (at least mana based spells vs just blowing stuff up). Once it changed too much, you basically died.
Cybermancy/zombies was a way to bypass that death with all kinds of drawbacks. I don't recall the emphasis so much on psychosis with cyberware overall vs you just died at some point, with some social penalties towards the extreme end.
In short, I don't think that angle was played up as much as CP. Now that the properties are seperated, that link doesn't really exist anyway.
It's still dumb, and bad security, but it happens anyway. For reasons. (Simple laziness and "why not" mostly.)
In both the games and reality, it's like people just forgot, somewhere back around 2010, the concept of airgapping and not having everything hooked up to the Matrix by default. And we don't even have decent IC protecting our Internet of Things.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
re: the oshii movie I would note that while taken in toto it is definitely less than sac, I think the 5 minute tank fight sequence is the most elegant wordless examination of transhumanism in anything ever. and done entirely through implication and gunfire no less...
if I was not on phone over Pacific I would make long effort post but it is worth a rewatch for those who have not seen it or forgotten it; doubly fascinating because the 2016 live action version slavishly steals so much from it and yet manages to totally miss the point
I mean, the answer for most stuff is that they're relying on the security of both 'why would they hack my random lights' and that it's still a technical skill to hack stuff.
It's not like most locks are some super secure, perfect security device. They just work well enough by existing.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
re: the oshii movie I would note that while taken in toto it is definitely less than sac, I think the 5 minute tank fight sequence is the most elegant wordless examination of transhumanism in anything ever. and done entirely through implication and gunfire no less...
if I was not on phone over Pacific I would make long effort post but it is worth a rewatch for those who have not seen it or forgotten it; doubly fascinating because the 2016 live action version slavishly steals so much from it and yet manages to totally miss the point
and the music is sublime of course
Solid State Society, taken in toto, is more thoughtful and philosophic than Oshii's film--not that that's necessarily a good thing. Plus, old people are taking over.
The Multiped Tank fight is a choreographic and auditory masterpiece, but to be honest, there are moments in the Oshii film that do transhuman examination much better--but most of them do involve talking (they don't talk much during the active camouflage water fight, even if, yes, there is no giant tank in it). The Oshii film is popular for a reason--it's just not that Ghosty in the Shells, when you get right down for it.
I can't get excited about this because I know that riding a motorcycle in a videogame inevitably leads to regret.
I'm dissappointed it's not just a pair of wheels that pop out between your hands and knees to make you a cyberbike.
Now I need this in game.
"He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
There are apparently more than a few anime references in CP2077. And more than a few GitS references. Besides the bike, I guess you may come across some familiar bits of clothing too among other things.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
I can't get excited about this because I know that riding a motorcycle in a videogame inevitably leads to regret.
I'm dissappointed it's not just a pair of wheels that pop out between your hands and knees to make you a cyberbike.
@Gaddez with the Return to Oz reference that popped into my head. Those guys were CREEPY and I have no idea why my parents let me watch that so young..
Steam - DoublySymmetric (43687993)
Blizz ID - DoublySymm#1758
Posts
I'm hoping they go with a "Transhumanism is cool!" angle, since that alone would make them stand out from other cyberpunk efforts.
Yeah I think they junked the idea because it would be difficult to integrate into a game without a DM who can balance it out a bit. I suspect they will limit how much chrome goes in based on a more direct barrier like currency or merchant availability. Additionally, given some of the political troubles they've had, I can understand why they would be super hesitant to wade into anything like "changing your body means losing your humanity."
I was super impressed, and mildly weirded out, during the demo video thought when they did the eye implant and the hand thing. Doing this in the first person is going to help hammer home some of the decisions you're making are being done to you and not some avatar.
Heck I've heard even Shadowrun 6th edition is changing the language to make it clear that it's a magic problem, not an empathy/becoming less 'human' one.
"The future is here; it's just not evenly distributed." -- Gibson
As I said upthread, I think the real downfall of Cyberpunk as a genre is that reality has basically become Gibsonian cyberpunk, but without the cool shades. I mean I just had a big chat with some folks about how the best way to avoid surveillance isn't to turn off your phone, because that's too conspicuous; it's to give your phone to someone who lives with you who will go through the rote actions you'd go through on a daily basis ("spend X time checking Facebook; take the bus to class"). Because anything else is enough of a deviation that law enforcement can pick up on it. To quote the terrifying convo, "The only people who turn off their phones for long periods time to drop off the grid are criminals."
It's the reason that Gibson's current work has two tracks right now - near future that's mostly like ours but worse and current events told as if it was science fiction. He's got some far future stuff in The Peripheral, but even there he's mostly focusing on just what tech will be like in a decade or two.
With how many smart devices are already controlled by Russian or Chinese hackers, yeah it's inevitable.
(see also: why my smart devices do not get to join wifi networks)
I really hope it's not. I was fine with the penalties for getting all drugged up in Witcher 3 because you could extend the toxicity meter, however I don't want to have to worry about min-maxing in this game and not having real freedom to create a character. I'm sure there'll be something in there to prevent you from becoming a toaster but I hope it's not the Deus Ex route of "hey you're oversparking your CPU widgets."
2020 (actual): "Oh."
Don't worry. The NSA and FBI mandated back doors required by law in every design will protect us. These are, after all, institutions famously immune to abuse and need not be impeded by oversight.
Yea I totally agree. I hope I am remembering this correctly!
My big hope with this game is that there is a good mix of "combat" missions and just living in the world stuff. For all the flack Rockstar gets these days, one thing they are very good at is creating a balance where not every mission is about fighting and even the fighting ones do setup to show off the setting and the motivations of the characters you are going to get into conflict with.
To be fair, SR always played it off as more lore based - Pattern issue, tying into Earthdawn. The less meat you had (replaced with metal anyway), the more your Pattern changed - which made magic less effective on you (at least mana based spells vs just blowing stuff up). Once it changed too much, you basically died.
Cybermancy/zombies was a way to bypass that death with all kinds of drawbacks. I don't recall the emphasis so much on psychosis with cyberware overall vs you just died at some point, with some social penalties towards the extreme end.
In short, I don't think that angle was played up as much as CP. Now that the properties are seperated, that link doesn't really exist anyway.
A phone vs your pacemaker are a little different though. But basically yea.
EDIT: Hell, pacemakers are wireless. Replace with 'illegal cyberarm with a gun built in'
In both the games and reality, it's like people just forgot, somewhere back around 2010, the concept of airgapping and not having everything hooked up to the Matrix by default. And we don't even have decent IC protecting our Internet of Things.
re: the oshii movie I would note that while taken in toto it is definitely less than sac, I think the 5 minute tank fight sequence is the most elegant wordless examination of transhumanism in anything ever. and done entirely through implication and gunfire no less...
if I was not on phone over Pacific I would make long effort post but it is worth a rewatch for those who have not seen it or forgotten it; doubly fascinating because the 2016 live action version slavishly steals so much from it and yet manages to totally miss the point
and the music is sublime of course
It's not like most locks are some super secure, perfect security device. They just work well enough by existing.
Oh man that bike looks rad.
From a Famitsu article.
Didn’t vulnerabilities due to the Internet of Things knock out Twitter a while back?
Although that might not be so much of a disaster these days
Solid State Society, taken in toto, is more thoughtful and philosophic than Oshii's film--not that that's necessarily a good thing. Plus, old people are taking over.
The Multiped Tank fight is a choreographic and auditory masterpiece, but to be honest, there are moments in the Oshii film that do transhuman examination much better--but most of them do involve talking (they don't talk much during the active camouflage water fight, even if, yes, there is no giant tank in it). The Oshii film is popular for a reason--it's just not that Ghosty in the Shells, when you get right down for it.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
I can't get excited about this because I know that riding a motorcycle in a videogame inevitably leads to regret.
I guess that makes it a motokorbike?
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
I'm dissappointed it's not just a pair of wheels that pop out between your hands and knees to make you a cyberbike.
I imagine that most players will inadvertently install their own cyberbike components shortly after acquiring said bike.
Hoo boy, someone watched themselves some Bubblegum Crisis growing up in Poland. And I ain't even mad, that's a fucking radical bike.
That bike is built for some acceleration.
Are we suggesting we want something along the lines of Cyberpunk Heelys in the game?
That's only allowed if you can pull off the Akira Slide at some point
that's just how motorcycles be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq7CYrH-_Kc
Also this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MLVfQOknYM
Now I need this in game.
@Gaddez with the Return to Oz reference that popped into my head. Those guys were CREEPY and I have no idea why my parents let me watch that so young..
Blizz ID - DoublySymm#1758
Fruityyy, Oatyyy bar!
Make a man out of a mouse!
~ Buckaroo Banzai
Make you bust out of your blouse!
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