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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Winning The Argument Looks A Lot Like Losing

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    An audience member calling Johnson out on his constant lies and childish abuse.

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Johnson now claiming 20 upgraded hospitals and 40 new ones.

    40! Going big on the lies here.

    Johnson talking over Etchingham yet again.

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Corbyn calling anti-semitism and racism an "evil and a scourge in our society".

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Johnson deflecting rather than answering about honesty in politics.

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Fucksake, straighten your glasses.

    He had his new ones on for the opening statement; then switched to his old bent ones afterwards. I did think "oh for fuck's sake" myself.

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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    I think I feel less hope for ITV's pledge to move on from Brexit as I do the leaders pledging to improve discourse in Parliament...

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    scherbchenscherbchen Asgard (it is dead)Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »

    ta!

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    It’s just a little thing but so fucking easy to fix.

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    It’s just a little thing but so fucking easy to fix.

    When a consistent criticism is that he's "scruffy". Like it or not, it does matter. And he's tidied up a lot for this besides the glasses.

    There's a distinct difference between the two lenses too? Is one side for reading and one for distance or something? I mean, I'm a glasses wearer myself and I can't figure it out.

    It's just weird.

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Johnson talking over Etchingham yet again. Jesus, he's taking the piss.

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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    She needs control over the mic

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Johnson bringing up the Liam Byrne "no money left" note again.

    Holy fuck.


    Tastyfish wrote: »
    She needs control over the mic

    Agreed.

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Corbyn pressing on where this "40 new hospitals" number is coming from.

    Johnson talking etc etc, just assume he's doing it wherever possible.

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    ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    Debates are kind of worthless anyway but yes, moderators need to be able to cut off the mics of the participants if they babble on too long, talk over them, etc.

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Johnson saying they don't believe anyone should have to sell their home to afford social care.

    Anyone got a record on how he's voted for that under Cameron and May?

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    scherbchenscherbchen Asgard (it is dead)Registered User regular
    "fail to get brexit done" to just about anything then, eh?

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Etchingham caught on camera looking utterly exasperated as Johnson does it again.

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    Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    Whilst it's incredibly disappointing that only two parties are represented here, I can't even begin to imagine the chaos of having 6/7 on stages being continually cut off after 30 seconds. It's all become a game of short soundbites rather than an actual debate.

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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    scherbchen wrote: »
    "fail to get brexit done" to just about anything then, eh?

    Got a boo though!

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Etchingham asks if Johnson has found a magic money tree, and if Corbyn has found more than one.

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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    I'm really curious to see how the two time strategies work out, Corbyn is able to deliver his point in the time allow and Johnson overruns every time.
    I think they're both clearly power plays, but from very different ways.

    Tastyfish on
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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Quick-fire questions, I can't type fast enough!

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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Bad-Beat wrote: »
    Whilst it's incredibly disappointing that only two parties are represented here, I can't even begin to imagine the chaos of having 6/7 on stages being continually cut off after 30 seconds. It's all become a game of short soundbites rather than an actual debate.

    So....a US debate?

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Christmas presents for each other?

    Corbyn would leave Johnson a copy of A Christmas Carol by Dickens.

    Johnson would give Corbyn a copy of his "brilliant Brexit deal". And some damson jam.

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    scherbchenscherbchen Asgard (it is dead)Registered User regular
    I did not think I would say this, and I only caught the last 25 minutes of this mind you, but the Spanish debate prior to the last election was better (discounting the insane buildup with participants arriving over just about 2 hours)

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    SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    The Conservatives main Twitter feed has changed its handle to FactcheckUK and is tweeting out lies about Labour etc

    I should be surprised they're being so underhanded but...

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    The Conservatives main Twitter feed has changed its handle to FactcheckUK and is tweeting out lies about Labour etc

    I should be surprised they're being so underhanded but...

    Twitter may have banned political ads, but obviously not just political lying.

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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    The Conservatives main Twitter feed has changed its handle to FactcheckUK and is tweeting out lies about Labour etc

    I should be surprised they're being so underhanded but...

    They did it at the start. This kind of campaigning should literally cost you votes (up to the same percentage that they think you reached) if the Electoral Commission finds that you will tried to deceive people.
    I think it's even the same colour scheme that the two Tory campaign heads used in Australia to put out fake election information in foreign languages (though that might just be the official Aus election regulator colour scheme).

    Tastyfish on
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    japanjapan Registered User regular
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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    YouGov is a polling organisation:



    Yes, I'm 100% sure people polled left aside their own party preference... :rotate:

    Jazz on
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    PerduraboPerdurabo Registered User regular
    japan wrote: »

    Great example of why they did it. Now like HKesvani, the CCHQ team have changed their profile back - and have been retweeted numerous times by Labour activists, by Labour mps, and got way more views than they would have.

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    PerduraboPerdurabo Registered User regular
    Breakdown of post debate opinions - hard to know what to make of this. Boris seeming prime ministerial seems like a big deal, and that's only as a consequence of fucking parliament keeping him in power. Good job lads.

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    altidaltid Registered User regular
    Like practically every poll these days, the only response is "oh for fucks sake"

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    Anarchy Rules!Anarchy Rules! Registered User regular
    I thought Corbyn did better, but not the knockout blow he needed against Johnson. Both a bit lacklustre

    Can understand why they'd want to exclude Swinson

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    I seriously do not understand Johnson's "likeability" score. But somehow that's always been his thing, like massively so, and it's not slipping. I just. Do. Not. Get. It.

    Also I bet Corbyn would score 5-10 points higher on "Prime Ministerial" if he'd just fix his fucking glasses.

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    never dienever die Registered User regular
    Perdurabo wrote: »
    Breakdown of post debate opinions - hard to know what to make of this. Boris seeming prime ministerial seems like a big deal, and that's only as a consequence of fucking parliament keeping him in power. Good job lads.


    I don’t know how to square those opinions. How do you find someone more trustworthy and in touch with the people, but not Prime Minister material?

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    never die wrote: »
    Perdurabo wrote: »
    Breakdown of post debate opinions - hard to know what to make of this. Boris seeming prime ministerial seems like a big deal, and that's only as a consequence of fucking parliament keeping him in power. Good job lads.


    I don’t know how to square those opinions. How do you find someone more trustworthy and in touch with the people, but not Prime Minister material?

    If you'll excuse the medium...

    07lwxkgsd0vs.jpg

    Jazz on
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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    The Conservatives main Twitter feed has changed its handle to FactcheckUK and is tweeting out lies about Labour etc

    I should be surprised they're being so underhanded but...

    j6shvitabfaz.bmp

    I've replied to this before, but turns out that loads of other twitter accounts then pretended to be the Tories, or also Fact Check UK, and this is my favourite.

    Tastyfish on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    never die wrote: »
    Perdurabo wrote: »
    Breakdown of post debate opinions - hard to know what to make of this. Boris seeming prime ministerial seems like a big deal, and that's only as a consequence of fucking parliament keeping him in power. Good job lads.


    I don’t know how to square those opinions. How do you find someone more trustworthy and in touch with the people, but not Prime Minister material?

    Because those aren't related things? "Prime Ministerial" basically means something like "professional" but with a side of gravitas or whatever.

    Like, that poll seems roughly where I'd expect the numbers to be? A bit higher for Johnson then I'd think according to any logic but I've mentally adjusted Johnson's numbers up the same way I do Trump's because people inexplicably find them not instantly revolting and I've no idea why but it's a thing.

    So yeah, Corbyn more trustworthy by a bit and seen as far more in touch with the common man, but also viewed as unlikable and not really suited to the job of being a political leader.

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