Openly talking about who gets to vote as a tactic for electoral advantage is an old tradition in the US and I think the GOP may be proved right that openly saying it again does nothing to erode their base
Yes it will motivate their opposition, but they’ve been successful enough so far to disenfranchise enough folks to still come ahead
"and for whatever reason, doesn’t work out well for Republicans"
It is amazing how impossible it is to just pretend it is totally only about voter fraud and not at all voter suppression.
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HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
What is unique about the Wisconsin situation that SCOTUS shut it down (other than the literal/procedural answer that the lower courts elevated it to SCOTUS)?
Why was this an issue in Wisconsin but not any of the numerous other states that have postponed their primaries? Does this decision potentially impact any other states with delays?
Edit: I know they had a WI supreme court seat on the ballot too, as a motive for fuckery, but I guess what I'm asking is: is there even any fig leaf to justify this, or is it literally just, "Wisconsin has to vote during the pandemic because it'll probably win us that supreme court seat. Ohio and Georgia can delay or whatever because there's no races we care about there."
Other states have state laws granting the executive the power to postpone elections in the event of an emergency. WI’s emergency power laws, iirc, are silent on the issue. The WI SC’s engaged in some motivated reasoning to get from silence —> It is not Statutorily granted.
As for SCOTUS, no other state has had a suit brought in federal court asking for emergency injunctive relief on short notice right before an election, had that relief granted by a court, or had that suit OPPOSED, and then APPEALED ALL THE WAY UP. Other states, again, either grant authority to the governor or the election commissions to modify election rules in the event of an emergency. Here a court modified the election rules. So SCOTUS has the power to review what that court does and throw it out.
But really, none of this happens unless there is determined, well resourced opposition to propositions like “we should not have to make voters risk catastrophic public health in order to exercise their right to vote”
Surprise, people who can’t afford to vote on Election Day also have trouble voting during early voting periods, which are usually during restricted hours and a central location vs dispersed precincts
Mail in voting is actually well-controlled because there’s already a record for every eligible voter, vs relying on decentralized volunteer poll workers at each precinct capturing this
Sure I could fill out my wife’s ballot for her and I guess forge her signature? There’s a paper trail to dispute this though so...
The strongest argument against all mail voting is that it can eliminate the secret ballot within households and that can be another vector for domestic abuse. The strongest arguments in favor of it are literally everything else.
They'll find that won't work out well for them at all. Dumb fucks really should get the fuck out of their bubble and read up on history because most of the shit stains like them in the past usually got burned pretty badly; especially, when the economy goes to shit and they manage to piss off the active duty military.
I'm looking at history and seeing nothing but strongmen and fascist parties getting rewarded for this behavior
"and the morning stars I have seen
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
Is there some hack argument for there being a difference between a huge number of absentee ballots and all mail-in elections when it comes to fraud outside of old people voting Republican more so it is OK for them to do that?
Is there some hack argument for there being a difference between a huge number of absentee ballots and all mail-in elections when it comes to fraud outside of old people voting Republican more so it is OK for them to do that?
At least he is warning us that he will have his campaign steal the mailed ballots, fill them out, and send them back
I wanna scream at republicans, hey conservatives can still get into power even if everyone votes! Look at Australia! Mandatory voting and we have a conservative government! I mean yeah you’ll have to shave some of the edges off, maybe not be quite as obviously self serving and corrupt wait where are you going you can still be pretty awful!
Except the Republican party isn't a conservative party anymore. It's been radicalizing itself for the past 30 years, and at the moment, the mainstream Democrats are closer to what conservatism used to be. Although now that the Democratic party has decided to follow suit, I don't think the conservatives are going to have a party to look to in about 15 years.
They'll find that won't work out well for them at all. Dumb fucks really should get the fuck out of their bubble and read up on history because most of the shit stains like them in the past usually got burned pretty badly; especially, when the economy goes to shit and they manage to piss off the active duty military.
I'm looking at history and seeing nothing but strongmen and fascist parties getting rewarded for this behavior
In cases where a very angry public doesn't run their equivalent of rat fucking republicans out of power, sometimes in violent ways. The strongman that gets into power isn't the chucklefucks that shit all over the idea democracy, it's usually some brutish ghoul within there ranks that realizes now that being polite is no longer required, they'll snap some necks and take the top spot.
Is there some hack argument for there being a difference between a huge number of absentee ballots and all mail-in elections when it comes to fraud outside of old people voting Republican more so it is OK for them to do that?
At least he is warning us that he will have his campaign steal the mailed ballots, fill them out, and send them back
Ridiculous, the Republican Party would never do that.
What's that you say? North Carolina you say? Multiple times you say? Probably a media hoax.
Is there some hack argument for there being a difference between a huge number of absentee ballots and all mail-in elections when it comes to fraud outside of old people voting Republican more so it is OK for them to do that?
An absentee ballot system requires active participation on the part of the voter to request it. An all mail system will send a ballot to everyone on the voter rolls regardless of if they requested it. Even if they're poor or a minority.
I wanna scream at republicans, hey conservatives can still get into power even if everyone votes! Look at Australia! Mandatory voting and we have a conservative government! I mean yeah you’ll have to shave some of the edges off, maybe not be quite as obviously self serving and corrupt wait where are you going you can still be pretty awful!
Except the Republican party isn't a conservative party anymore. It's been radicalizing itself for the past 30 years, and at the moment, the mainstream Democrats are closer to what conservatism used to be. Although now that the Democratic party has decided to follow suit, I don't think the conservatives are going to have a party to look to in about 15 years.
So has every conservative party.. The Dems are not equivalent to overseas conservative parties.
I wanna scream at republicans, hey conservatives can still get into power even if everyone votes! Look at Australia! Mandatory voting and we have a conservative government! I mean yeah you’ll have to shave some of the edges off, maybe not be quite as obviously self serving and corrupt wait where are you going you can still be pretty awful!
Except the Republican party isn't a conservative party anymore. It's been radicalizing itself for the past 30 years, and at the moment, the mainstream Democrats are closer to what conservatism used to be. Although now that the Democratic party has decided to follow suit, I don't think the conservatives are going to have a party to look to in about 15 years.
The mainstream Democrats are nowhere near where conservatives were even like 30 years ago. Or 50. And are moving left. And the Republican party is 100% a conservative party, just calibrated for the specifics of american politics, especially it's racial dimensions. Which is really the core essence of why they are so obsessed with voter suppression. While the Democratic party has become way more diverse over the past 50 or so years, the Republican party has maintained it's status as the party of white christians and is actually radicalizing along those lines because of the underlying structures (often racial) of american politics. With their base shrinking relative to the overall electorate and their attempts to grow that base demographically ultimately stymied by their own ideology, they have no other choice but to enforce minority rule via electoral shenanigans.
The first part of @AndrewCMcCarthy story has an error. The Democratic governor wanted the legislature to delay it and the tried it himself with an executive order. He did not make “the decision to go forward with the primary,” as it says here.
Especially look at both the percentage changes and seat changes.
That is much worse than I thought.
After yesterday's bullshit, it looks like Wisconsinites genuinely no longer have a democracy and there is nothing they can do about it.
Am I inaccurate in my understanding?
The Democratic margin in 2018 was the best they had had in 20 years, and they still lost. They would need to do a good deal better than that to get a majority.
The rigging is likely to only get worse thanks to the elections yesterday.
Former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and Senator Bernie Sanders are on the ballot in Wisconsin, but the main event is the State Supreme Court race between the conservative incumbent justice, Daniel Kelly, and a liberal challenger, Jill Karofsky.
The winner will be in position to cast a deciding vote on a case before the court that seeks to purge more than 200,000 people from Wisconsin’s voter rolls — in a state where 2.6 million people voted in the last governor’s race. When the matter was first before the court in January, Mr. Kelly recused himself, citing his upcoming election. He indicated he would “rethink” his position following the April election, which comes with a 10-year term.
So if the voter suppression succeeds, Kelly gets re-elected and can freely help the purge that will make it harder for Democrats to get elected.
The main thing would be through judges. SCOTUS ruled that partisan gerrymandering claims could not be considered by federal courts so that is unlikely to be an avenue for quite some time.
The state Supreme Court is obviously doing what it can to help guarantee conservative judges get elected, but the elections are state wide so can't be gerrymandered like the legislative elections. But the next time a state Supreme Court judge's term ends is in 2023 and there is no more than one state Supreme Court election a year, so the conservative bias of the court is pretty much guaranteed until then unless Kelly loses.
And I almost forgot that the legislature will probably continue to gut the powers of any remaining statewide elected officials and help ensure that any pesky Democratic governor won't be able to stop them. Got to ensure any attempts by the people as a whole to limit the influence of gerrymandered state legislator by electing a Democratic state wide official isn't very meaningful.
BREAKING: Wisconsin Republicans are drafting a proposal aimed at providing coronavirus relief that also curbs @GovEvers' power and allows the Finance Committee to make spending cuts without his input
Evers tells the Journal Sentinel he would likely veto the bill if it stays
MADISON - Seeking to further curb Democratic Gov. Tony Evers’ power, Republican lawmakers are proposing to give a handful of lawmakers the ability to cut school aid and slash state spending if a deficit materializes.
Evers said that idea, which is one of dozens of potential provisions state lawmakers are negotiating for legislation to respond to the coronavirus outbreak, would likely push him to veto the bill altogether.
"'Seriously consider it' would probably be putting it mildly," Evers said Wednesday in an interview with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. "We can’t have that as part of it. That’s too much authority in the hands of a couple people.”
But a veto would also prevent the state from providing more help to the unemployed and receiving more federal aid to cover health-care costs. Those are two of Evers’ top goals as the coronavirus pandemic spreads across Wisconsin and the economy worsens.
The new measures are aimed at responding to the coronavirus outbreak and the economic problems that come with it. The legislation would suspend a one-week waiting period to receive unemployment benefits, and allow the state to claim an extra $150 million every three months in federal aid for the state’s Medicaid programs such as BadgerCare Plus.
But the legislation also includes a provision that would allow the Legislature’s GOP- controlled Joint Finance Committee to reduce state spending — including aid to schools — on its own if the Legislative Fiscal Bureau shows an estimated deficit in the state's general fund in the 2020-21 fiscal year. Normally the Legislature and governor have to agree on any cuts.
If the governor approved the legislation, he would have the ability to veto any spending cuts made by the committee. But the committee could easily override his vetoes because Republicans have a 12-4 majority on the committee — more than the two-thirds margin needed to override vetoes.
Evers said he would likely block their legislation if it includes the provision allowing the committee to cut spending. But that would leave in limbo the provisions he and Republicans support.
Surrender or else the hostages get shot. Don't you care about the hostages?
Just looking at the numbers from the 2018 Wisconsin election and it really looks like the state should be almost a true tossup with a slight lean to the Democrats, but instead has a 5-3 US House of Representatives advantage for the Republicans and that staggering 63 to 36 advantage in the State Assembly. The Republican redistricting of the state was incredibly effective.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
Just looking at the numbers from the 2018 Wisconsin election and it really looks like the state should be almost a true tossup with a slight lean to the Democrats, but instead has a 5-3 US House of Representatives advantage for the Republicans and that staggering 63 to 36 advantage in the State Assembly. The Republican redistricting of the state was incredibly effective.
Wisconsin is a state where we need a blow out. We just retook Virginia, and Wisconsin is a good state to take next but we might be too late there.
Just looking at the numbers from the 2018 Wisconsin election and it really looks like the state should be almost a true tossup with a slight lean to the Democrats, but instead has a 5-3 US House of Representatives advantage for the Republicans and that staggering 63 to 36 advantage in the State Assembly. The Republican redistricting of the state was incredibly effective.
Wisconsin is a state where we need a blow out. We just retook Virginia, and Wisconsin is a good state to take next but we might be too late there.
Republicans have given us a huge opening for this November, but I do believe that this November is our absolute last chance at restoring Wisconsin's government to a democracy. If the GOP still retain a majority after the November election after doing all of this bullshit, then Wisconsin is lost to the GOP for good.
Wisconsin needs a citizen initiative to make independent redistricting a thing. Or for the Democrats to control the White House to unfuck both the judiciary and DoJ and get this bullshit resolved through the courts. Long term project.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Wisconsin needs a citizen initiative to make independent redistricting a thing. Or for the Democrats to control the White House to unfuck both the judiciary and DoJ and get this bullshit resolved through the courts. Long term project.
Retake both houses of Congress in November and then pass new voting reforms like the House did last year. With more vote-by-mail, which might get a boost from the current crisis.
Probably gonna need to start packing the court or something to really make it stick though.
Posts
Yes it will motivate their opposition, but they’ve been successful enough so far to disenfranchise enough folks to still come ahead
"and for whatever reason, doesn’t work out well for Republicans"
It is amazing how impossible it is to just pretend it is totally only about voter fraud and not at all voter suppression.
Other states have state laws granting the executive the power to postpone elections in the event of an emergency. WI’s emergency power laws, iirc, are silent on the issue. The WI SC’s engaged in some motivated reasoning to get from silence —> It is not Statutorily granted.
As for SCOTUS, no other state has had a suit brought in federal court asking for emergency injunctive relief on short notice right before an election, had that relief granted by a court, or had that suit OPPOSED, and then APPEALED ALL THE WAY UP. Other states, again, either grant authority to the governor or the election commissions to modify election rules in the event of an emergency. Here a court modified the election rules. So SCOTUS has the power to review what that court does and throw it out.
But really, none of this happens unless there is determined, well resourced opposition to propositions like “we should not have to make voters risk catastrophic public health in order to exercise their right to vote”
NNID: Hakkekage
it looks like this was not posted yet
it is trump talking about how mail in voting is "corrupt" and also early voting, "a lot of bad things can happen"
(though he himself voted by absentee ballot)
Surprise, people who can’t afford to vote on Election Day also have trouble voting during early voting periods, which are usually during restricted hours and a central location vs dispersed precincts
Mail in voting is actually well-controlled because there’s already a record for every eligible voter, vs relying on decentralized volunteer poll workers at each precinct capturing this
Sure I could fill out my wife’s ballot for her and I guess forge her signature? There’s a paper trail to dispute this though so...
Can you elaborate on this? I'm guessing it's to do with gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement.
I'm looking at history and seeing nothing but strongmen and fascist parties getting rewarded for this behavior
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
The WI GOP won ~35% of the vote in the last legislative election.
They hold a majority of seats in the Legislature.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Wisconsin_State_Assembly_election
Especially look at both the percentage changes and seat changes.
Is there some hack argument for there being a difference between a huge number of absentee ballots and all mail-in elections when it comes to fraud outside of old people voting Republican more so it is OK for them to do that?
At least he is warning us that he will have his campaign steal the mailed ballots, fill them out, and send them back
Except the Republican party isn't a conservative party anymore. It's been radicalizing itself for the past 30 years, and at the moment, the mainstream Democrats are closer to what conservatism used to be. Although now that the Democratic party has decided to follow suit, I don't think the conservatives are going to have a party to look to in about 15 years.
In cases where a very angry public doesn't run their equivalent of rat fucking republicans out of power, sometimes in violent ways. The strongman that gets into power isn't the chucklefucks that shit all over the idea democracy, it's usually some brutish ghoul within there ranks that realizes now that being polite is no longer required, they'll snap some necks and take the top spot.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Ridiculous, the Republican Party would never do that.
What's that you say? North Carolina you say? Multiple times you say? Probably a media hoax.
An absentee ballot system requires active participation on the part of the voter to request it. An all mail system will send a ballot to everyone on the voter rolls regardless of if they requested it. Even if they're poor or a minority.
So has every conservative party.. The Dems are not equivalent to overseas conservative parties.
The mainstream Democrats are nowhere near where conservatives were even like 30 years ago. Or 50. And are moving left. And the Republican party is 100% a conservative party, just calibrated for the specifics of american politics, especially it's racial dimensions. Which is really the core essence of why they are so obsessed with voter suppression. While the Democratic party has become way more diverse over the past 50 or so years, the Republican party has maintained it's status as the party of white christians and is actually radicalizing along those lines because of the underlying structures (often racial) of american politics. With their base shrinking relative to the overall electorate and their attempts to grow that base demographically ultimately stymied by their own ideology, they have no other choice but to enforce minority rule via electoral shenanigans.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/the-supreme-courts-misunderstood-ruling-on-wisconsins-coronavirus-primary/
Former Buzzfeed and CNN reporter:
That is much worse than I thought.
After yesterday's bullshit, it looks like Wisconsinites genuinely no longer have a democracy and there is nothing they can do about it.
Am I inaccurate in my understanding?
The Democratic margin in 2018 was the best they had had in 20 years, and they still lost. They would need to do a good deal better than that to get a majority.
The rigging is likely to only get worse thanks to the elections yesterday.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/us/politics/wisconsin-pandemic-primary-republicans.html So if the voter suppression succeeds, Kelly gets re-elected and can freely help the purge that will make it harder for Democrats to get elected.
The main thing would be through judges. SCOTUS ruled that partisan gerrymandering claims could not be considered by federal courts so that is unlikely to be an avenue for quite some time.
The state Supreme Court is obviously doing what it can to help guarantee conservative judges get elected, but the elections are state wide so can't be gerrymandered like the legislative elections. But the next time a state Supreme Court judge's term ends is in 2023 and there is no more than one state Supreme Court election a year, so the conservative bias of the court is pretty much guaranteed until then unless Kelly loses.
Milwaukee reporter:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/08/wisconsin-gop-wants-power-cut-spending-response-coronavirus/2970764001/ Surrender or else the hostages get shot. Don't you care about the hostages?
Republicans have given us a huge opening for this November, but I do believe that this November is our absolute last chance at restoring Wisconsin's government to a democracy. If the GOP still retain a majority after the November election after doing all of this bullshit, then Wisconsin is lost to the GOP for good.
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
Retake both houses of Congress in November and then pass new voting reforms like the House did last year. With more vote-by-mail, which might get a boost from the current crisis.
Probably gonna need to start packing the court or something to really make it stick though.
Geth, close the thread.
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