Well this is very 40k. A Dawnbringer Crusade
Because stormcasts can't show up everywhere willy nilly anymore.
The article also implies that their new armour is partially made by Grungni.
I thought those dudes were hauling the big siege wagons, but looking again those chains are attached to that giant floating island-fortress.
Are those millions of regular human drudges hauling along the giant floating island fortress of their Stormcast protector/overlords to get it into battle?
Well this is very 40k. A Dawnbringer Crusade
Because stormcasts can't show up everywhere willy nilly anymore.
The article also implies that their new armour is partially made by Grungni.
I thought those dudes were hauling the big siege wagons, but looking again those chains are attached to that giant floating island-fortress.
Are those millions of regular human drudges hauling along the giant floating island fortress of their Stormcast protector/overlords to get it into battle?
Because yeah, that is Grimdark as shit.
Not quite. Those are cities meant to be dropped into conquered lands ready to go. They’re literally hauling it like a massive caravan.
You'd think tha karadons could lend them an engine or two so it could fly under its own power. I mean, it already floats, so that's the hard part taken care of.
Even if not, since it's weightless (but not massless) you'd basically just need to tug on it to get it moving and it'll keep going quite far. Stopping it might be tricky…
Sic transit gloria mundi.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
edited June 2021
I hate building plague monks. Got another 20 to go and I'll have 160 of them built.
I feel like I'm missing something with melee combat. Core rules say a model is eligible for combat if they are within 3 inches. The staff had a 2 inch range and the sword has a 1 inch range for my plague monks.
So if a model is 3 inches away, even though it is eligible to attack it still can't because neither weapon would be in range?
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What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
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Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
edited June 2021
When you choose to fight with a unit in the combat phase every model in that unit can make a pile in move of up to 3" towards an enemy model, so you get to move your models to try and get as many melee weapons in range before you roll any attack dice. But any models which are still out of melee range after their pile in move will be unable to attack, yes.
A UNIT is eligible to be activated to fight in the combat phase if it is within 3” of enemy or charged. When you activate the unit you pile in and then check range on weapons for individual models before moving to the actual attack rolls etc.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
The new unit coherency rule is going to be a pain for my Skaven. I've never really had to deal with it in 40K so I'm not sure how to make it as efficient as possible with my clanrats and plague monks. I feel like just running in big blobs will work.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
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Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
You basically want to have units in at least two ranks under the new rules. For 25mm infantry it's not too bad, but 32mm/40mm infantry or cavalry units over 10 with 1" attacks it's going to take some getting used to.
I wonder if there'll be any exceptions for, say, Ogors and the like.
It was in the warhammer community post today(technically yesterday since I'm posting this at 1am).
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
edited June 2021
So, yeah, same rule as 40K, just 1" instead of 2… which is actually way more restrictive since you can’t bunch up real tight and “leapfrog” models on smaller bases to get a functional line formation.
Back to ranks it is!
You basically want to have units in at least two ranks under the new rules. For 25mm infantry it's not too bad, but 32mm/40mm infantry or cavalry units over 10 with 1" attacks it's going to take some getting used to.
I wonder if there'll be any exceptions for, say, Ogors and the like.
not necessarily two ranks. You can still do one rank with triangles at the end. (Although at least in 40k that is vulnerable to losing additional models when casualties occur)
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Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
One rank with triangles is quite vulnerable unless it's just a cheap screen I think. Possibly I'm imagining it wrong but taking a single casualty means you're going have to remove models down to 5 to keep coherency? Depends how big the triangle ends are I guess.
40k also has more lenient rules for who can make melee attacks, I believe? Seems like things like Gluttons and Blightlords will prefer an MSU approach under these rules.
One rank with triangles is quite vulnerable unless it's just a cheap screen I think. Possibly I'm imagining it wrong but taking a single casualty means you're going have to remove models down to 5 to keep coherency? Depends how big the triangle ends are I guess.
40k also has more lenient rules for who can make melee attacks, I believe? Seems like things like Gluttons and Blightlords will prefer an MSU approach under these rules.
gluttons are generally only better than guts in units of 8+ (so 9 or 12) due to the charging rule
also you never conga-lined them anyway, you wanted as many bases in melee as you could rather than just one or two getting to pile in
that ork spells seems really good to me? Boardwide +1/-1 charge effect.
Also hidden in the poisons and elixiers text: Looks like kruleboyz have mortal wound on sixes just like the realmlords.
AoS seems a bit inflationary with mortal wounds lately. Or is that just my impression?
Not only that but the half naked ork man gets a 3+ save? Seen in the following article on command abilities. That's more than a heavily armoured chaos lord.
I have a rules question regarding units "moving over" other units:
The blue circles are infantry. The black oblong circle is a unit that has Fly and has rules that are triggered when it "passes across enemy units". The exact wording is
After this model has moved, roll a dice for each unit that has any models it passed across. On a 2+ that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
In the above example I think most people would say that 1 is an example of the black base "passing across" the blue bases, but what about 2 (moving up, and coming back down, ending the move in the exact same spot it started in), or 3 (moving up, and coming back down, ending the move very close to the exact same spot it started in), or 4 (moving up, coming back down, and ending near where it started, but not taking the most direct route available)? In terms of sportsmanship, 2, 3, and 4 are all what I would classify as "dick moves", but I'm curious as to whether or not there are any official rules that handle those sorts of movements.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
The rule only cares about passing across models, not units. It then affects units that contain those models. The number of models crossed within an individual unit is irrelevant; each unit takes a max of D3 MW.
All of them are valid moves but I don’t know what the point of returning to origin is in this context unless you’re on a cliff or something and they can’t get to you?
that ork spells seems really good to me? Boardwide +1/-1 charge effect.
Also hidden in the poisons and elixiers text: Looks like kruleboyz have mortal wound on sixes just like the realmlords.
AoS seems a bit inflationary with mortal wounds lately. Or is that just my impression?
Not only that but the half naked ork man gets a 3+ save? Seen in the following article on command abilities. That's more than a heavily armoured chaos lord.
In 40k Orks are getting a big boost to their toughness soon. Maybe the better save is the AoS equivalent.
All of those are perfectly valid and sporting. The flyer could also mostly avoid the unit and only clip a tiny percentage of one base, and it would still be "flying over" the unit.
This came up in a game I played with a friend a while back, the black base was my Khorne Wrath Axe endless spell.
The full text of the rule is
After this model has moved, roll a dice for each unit that has any models it passed across. On a 2+ that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
Then the player that set up this model picks 1 enemy unit within 3" of this model and rolls a dice (the enemy unit may be one that this model passed across). On a 2+ that enemy unit suffers D6 mortal wounds.
So basically I was giving his unit D3 mortal wounds on a 2+ by doing #4, then giving it an additional D6 mortal wounds on a 2+ by choosing the same unit since it was within 3" of my model. It was hilarious, but at the same time seemed pretty greasy (but I couldn't think of any rule that would prevent it), so I figured I'd get a second opinion from the thread.
that ork spells seems really good to me? Boardwide +1/-1 charge effect.
Also hidden in the poisons and elixiers text: Looks like kruleboyz have mortal wound on sixes just like the realmlords.
AoS seems a bit inflationary with mortal wounds lately. Or is that just my impression?
Not only that but the half naked ork man gets a 3+ save? Seen in the following article on command abilities. That's more than a heavily armoured chaos lord.
In 40k Orks are getting a big boost to their toughness soon. Maybe the better save is the AoS equivalent.
Maybe, but perhaps I am just too set in my ways remembering when warriors of chaos were THE tough army of fantasy. Now, not so much.
This came up in a game I played with a friend a while back, the black base was my Khorne Wrath Axe endless spell.
The full text of the rule is
After this model has moved, roll a dice for each unit that has any models it passed across. On a 2+ that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
Then the player that set up this model picks 1 enemy unit within 3" of this model and rolls a dice (the enemy unit may be one that this model passed across). On a 2+ that enemy unit suffers D6 mortal wounds.
So basically I was giving his unit D3 mortal wounds on a 2+ by doing #4, then giving it an additional D6 mortal wounds on a 2+ by choosing the same unit since it was within 3" of my model. It was hilarious, but at the same time seemed pretty greasy (but I couldn't think of any rule that would prevent it), so I figured I'd get a second opinion from the thread.
I'm pretty sure it's so you can fly it across MULTIPLE units and do d3 MW to each one, and then D6 to the last one. He should consider himself lucky there was only one target.
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
a model jumping half-way over another and then back to where it started is still currently legit if I recall.
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Yep, nothing stops it currently.
The new coherency rules are giving me some kittens. I'm not happy buying 30 dire wolves for my army and then discovering that rule is a thing. I wish they would just show all the rules so people didn't have to wonder if their army will be useless or not.
The new unit coherency rules could cause some real headaches from the rare abilities that let you snipe a specific model. Otherwise you should be fine with just moving them around in at least 2 ‘ranks’ though surely?
I did say that I was more interested in getting the rulebook than Dominion. As I am very curious of all the changes and clarifications of the rules
But I still have to get the DoK book and whichever one my brother wants for the realm lords then all the secondary things
Yeah the New coherency rule is really an Anti-Congo Line rule, and based on the chatter I've heard from the people I know who play AoS a lot more than I do, its a good thing. I heard it described as a fantasy onion peeling simulator recently due to all the layers people are wrapping stuff in.
a model jumping half-way over another and then back to where it started is still currently legit if I recall.
I would probably keep in mind that 40K did just forbid it though. It might be legal for now, but probably won't be forever.
Edit - whoops, misremembered. It was rules requiring a model to move more than X must end with every part of the model more than X from where it started, so you can't loop and claim protection for moving fast.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Yeah the New coherency rule is really an Anti-Congo Line rule, and based on the chatter I've heard from the people I know who play AoS a lot more than I do, its a good thing. I heard it described as a fantasy onion peeling simulator recently due to all the layers people are wrapping stuff in.
It is a good thing, but all 32mm+ units lose half their attacks. It’s a hefty nerf for a lot of units that didn’t need it.
Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
Mm, the intent is to reduce conga lining and spacing out screens, fair enough, that's a valuable thing, but the side effect is hitting stuff which wasn't really being used for that purpose with the same brush. Big cavalry with a minimum unit of 3, for example, you almost want to lose a model immediately so you can actually get their attacks in.
maybe you only have to be in range of a model that is in base contact with the enemy unit to attack. Would be quite the change and a bit awkward so it would be a good fit with GW rules writing.
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Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
Maybe! Certainly we don't have the full picture for anything yet. We do know melee weapons still have ranges in inches, mind you.
To be fair a lot of the issues come from base size still being this hidden stat with a big impact on a unit's effectiveness, being on 25mm bases is such a huge advantage for massed models.
Yeah the New coherency rule is really an Anti-Congo Line rule, and based on the chatter I've heard from the people I know who play AoS a lot more than I do, its a good thing. I heard it described as a fantasy onion peeling simulator recently due to all the layers people are wrapping stuff in.
It is a good thing, but all 32mm+ units lose half their attacks. It’s a hefty nerf for a lot of units that didn’t need it.
I don't understand where losing half their attacks comes from?
Two 32mm bases an inch apart leaves plenty of room for a third to snuggle in behind and be within an inch of the enemy they are lined up against.
Though cavalry bases may cause more issues I guess.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Yeah the New coherency rule is really an Anti-Congo Line rule, and based on the chatter I've heard from the people I know who play AoS a lot more than I do, its a good thing. I heard it described as a fantasy onion peeling simulator recently due to all the layers people are wrapping stuff in.
It is a good thing, but all 32mm+ units lose half their attacks. It’s a hefty nerf for a lot of units that didn’t need it.
I don't understand where losing half their attacks comes from?
Two 32mm bases an inch apart leaves plenty of room for a third to snuggle in behind and be within an inch of the enemy they are lined up against.
Though cavalry bases may cause more issues I guess.
Try placing 10 32mm next to that unit so every model can attack with 1” reach and always has two models within 1”. Now lose one model by casualties.
Let me know when you see the problem.
The moment you lose one model you lose half the unit on top immediately. Because the loss of any one model means all the others can’t be within 1” of two, so you lose half the unit at some point on the outlying sides
It gets substantially worse with cavalry and things like Bloodcrushers it’s just blatantly awful. Meanwhile 25mm bases are almost entirely unaffected.
As an example, you can easily have two ranks but keep all your attacks, but you can also have them base to base and form an entire line, even a daisy chain, because all models at 25mm base to base and easily within 1” of two models.
32mm models literally cannot stand in a base to base line without being out of coherency.
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I thought those dudes were hauling the big siege wagons, but looking again those chains are attached to that giant floating island-fortress.
Are those millions of regular human drudges hauling along the giant floating island fortress of their Stormcast protector/overlords to get it into battle?
Because yeah, that is Grimdark as shit.
Not quite. Those are cities meant to be dropped into conquered lands ready to go. They’re literally hauling it like a massive caravan.
Still pretty metal.
Even if not, since it's weightless (but not massless) you'd basically just need to tug on it to get it moving and it'll keep going quite far. Stopping it might be tricky…
I feel like I'm missing something with melee combat. Core rules say a model is eligible for combat if they are within 3 inches. The staff had a 2 inch range and the sword has a 1 inch range for my plague monks.
So if a model is 3 inches away, even though it is eligible to attack it still can't because neither weapon would be in range?
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I wonder if there'll be any exceptions for, say, Ogors and the like.
It was in the warhammer community post today(technically yesterday since I'm posting this at 1am).
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Back to ranks it is!
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not necessarily two ranks. You can still do one rank with triangles at the end. (Although at least in 40k that is vulnerable to losing additional models when casualties occur)
40k also has more lenient rules for who can make melee attacks, I believe? Seems like things like Gluttons and Blightlords will prefer an MSU approach under these rules.
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that ork spells seems really good to me? Boardwide +1/-1 charge effect.
Also hidden in the poisons and elixiers text: Looks like kruleboyz have mortal wound on sixes just like the realmlords.
AoS seems a bit inflationary with mortal wounds lately. Or is that just my impression?
gluttons are generally only better than guts in units of 8+ (so 9 or 12) due to the charging rule
also you never conga-lined them anyway, you wanted as many bases in melee as you could rather than just one or two getting to pile in
Not only that but the half naked ork man gets a 3+ save? Seen in the following article on command abilities. That's more than a heavily armoured chaos lord.
The blue circles are infantry. The black oblong circle is a unit that has Fly and has rules that are triggered when it "passes across enemy units". The exact wording is
In the above example I think most people would say that 1 is an example of the black base "passing across" the blue bases, but what about 2 (moving up, and coming back down, ending the move in the exact same spot it started in), or 3 (moving up, and coming back down, ending the move very close to the exact same spot it started in), or 4 (moving up, coming back down, and ending near where it started, but not taking the most direct route available)? In terms of sportsmanship, 2, 3, and 4 are all what I would classify as "dick moves", but I'm curious as to whether or not there are any official rules that handle those sorts of movements.
All of them are valid moves but I don’t know what the point of returning to origin is in this context unless you’re on a cliff or something and they can’t get to you?
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DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
In 40k Orks are getting a big boost to their toughness soon. Maybe the better save is the AoS equivalent.
The full text of the rule is
So basically I was giving his unit D3 mortal wounds on a 2+ by doing #4, then giving it an additional D6 mortal wounds on a 2+ by choosing the same unit since it was within 3" of my model. It was hilarious, but at the same time seemed pretty greasy (but I couldn't think of any rule that would prevent it), so I figured I'd get a second opinion from the thread.
Maybe, but perhaps I am just too set in my ways remembering when warriors of chaos were THE tough army of fantasy. Now, not so much.
I'm pretty sure it's so you can fly it across MULTIPLE units and do d3 MW to each one, and then D6 to the last one. He should consider himself lucky there was only one target.
The new coherency rules are giving me some kittens. I'm not happy buying 30 dire wolves for my army and then discovering that rule is a thing. I wish they would just show all the rules so people didn't have to wonder if their army will be useless or not.
But I still have to get the DoK book and whichever one my brother wants for the realm lords then all the secondary things
I would probably keep in mind that 40K did just forbid it though. It might be legal for now, but probably won't be forever.
Edit - whoops, misremembered. It was rules requiring a model to move more than X must end with every part of the model more than X from where it started, so you can't loop and claim protection for moving fast.
It is a good thing, but all 32mm+ units lose half their attacks. It’s a hefty nerf for a lot of units that didn’t need it.
To be fair a lot of the issues come from base size still being this hidden stat with a big impact on a unit's effectiveness, being on 25mm bases is such a huge advantage for massed models.
I don't understand where losing half their attacks comes from?
Two 32mm bases an inch apart leaves plenty of room for a third to snuggle in behind and be within an inch of the enemy they are lined up against.
Though cavalry bases may cause more issues I guess.
Try placing 10 32mm next to that unit so every model can attack with 1” reach and always has two models within 1”. Now lose one model by casualties.
Let me know when you see the problem.
It gets substantially worse with cavalry and things like Bloodcrushers it’s just blatantly awful. Meanwhile 25mm bases are almost entirely unaffected.
As an example, you can easily have two ranks but keep all your attacks, but you can also have them base to base and form an entire line, even a daisy chain, because all models at 25mm base to base and easily within 1” of two models.
32mm models literally cannot stand in a base to base line without being out of coherency.
It’s REALLY dumb.