Okay, Druid is advancing nicely through Outland so far. One thing though: can someone either explain, or direct me to an explanation, of how to use Maim more effectively? I know it's basic function is for me (95% or more solo, no PvP) to dot something heavily and then Maim it, but right now all it looks good for is as the closer on Mob #1 so it sits there stunned and dying when I start fighting Mob #2.
TheEmerged on
Sometimes, the knights are the monsters
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited August 2008
Well, it's basically a Gouge. It can be used to give you a bit of a breather if you're doing poorly (without needing to switch to bear and Bashing) and it's useful for interrupting spells, heals in particular. The fact that it doesn't break on DoT damage never really ment much for me since I don't have a Warlock in tow.
And whenever I want to quickly move from one mob to another, I don't Maim the first mob, I Rip it and let it follow me, doing whatever pitiful damage it does. Unless of course if it's a healer, in that case I finish it properly.
edit: And as MuddBudd mentions below, getting an extra Shred in is always a nice thing about Maim.
Okay, Druid is advancing nicely through Outland so far. One thing though: can someone either explain, or direct me to an explanation, of how to use Maim more effectively? I know it's basic function is for me (95% or more solo, no PvP) to dot something heavily and then Maim it, but right now all it looks good for is as the closer on Mob #1 so it sits there stunned and dying when I start fighting Mob #2.
I generally use it to move around to their back and get a Shred in. Or to briefly stall casters in PVP.
MuddBudd on
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
You can use it in on single mobs to get another shred in on a mob. e.g. FF, Mangle, Shred, (Mangle), Maim, wait a tick/two depending on combo points, Shred. I use that on mobs that enrage/heal at low hp or do hit hard to minimize damage taken and kill things quickly. Another use is to stun healing mobs, especially those that like to mock you by healing to 100% of their health. Then there's always popping out for a sly heal yourself.
Generally, the badge gear is going to end up being better. Karazhan drops are ilevel 115, T4 is ilevel 120, and the badge gear starts at ilevel 128, with the 2.4 stuff (from the shattered sun vendor) is ilevel 141. However, depending on the stat allocation, something may or may not be better for you, and I can't give specifics because I have not played a moonkin (except for one stint in BGs over a bored weekend).
You can look at the moonkin badge gear here and the karazhan cloth caster gear here.
The comments on wowhead might help you make your decision... but I'd look to verify what they say before taking their word. After all, they're people on the internet.
qwik qwestion. Do the Kara DpS cloth drops assemble an alright moonkin outfit? or is Badge gear better?
Download Rawr. Rawr is your friend.
Garthor's right. In general, the best stuff you're going to get short of 25-man raids come from the badge vendor on Isle of Quel'Danas. (Edit: With a few pieces from heroic Magister's or Kara/ZA depending on your build and stats.)
That said, full Kara clears with a good guild can be a great way to accumulate badges. 22 badges in four hours is not too shabby.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
So..mmm I feel dumb but DPS..spam mangle, and shred at 70?
Mirn on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited August 2008
The "DPS for dummies" version of it is to use Mangle only to keep the debuff up, use Shred to generate combo points and deal damage, and Rip once you have five combo points.
The "DPS for dummies" version of it is to use Mangle only to keep the debuff up, use Shred to generate combo points and deal damage, and Rip once you have five combo points.
Four combo points.
The additional DPS you get from that fifth combo point on Rip is gonna be less, on average, than the extra DPS you'd get by making sure you have Rip up as much as possible and Mangle up at all times.
If you have high crit and you can grab that fifth combo point without letting Mangle or Rip drop, then go for it, but in general four combo points is good enough.
So: Mangle, Shred to four combo points, Rip. Repeat.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited August 2008
Oh yeah, I remember reading that somewhere. Totally slipped my mind, though.
The "DPS for dummies" version of it is to use Mangle only to keep the debuff up, use Shred to generate combo points and deal damage, and Rip once you have five combo points.
Four combo points.
The additional DPS you get from that fifth combo point on Rip is gonna be less, on average, than the extra DPS you'd get by making sure you have Rip up as much as possible and Mangle up at all times.
If you have high crit and you can grab that fifth combo point without letting Mangle or Rip drop, then go for it, but in general four combo points is good enough.
So: Mangle, Shred to four combo points, Rip. Repeat.
The practice is correct, Mangle for debuff, shred to 4 CP, Rip. Repeat forever. Als, drop mangle if you have a druid tanking, or if there are multiple DPS druids. Only one druid should be using mangle, it does not stack.
The reason is a bit off. If you're at 4CP, never ever try for a 5th CP, unless you will tick to over 100 energy before your previous Rip falls off, at which point you should use an extra shred. The reason for this is that if you crit, you've just wasted an entire CP (gaining two from the crit, being already at 4). Which ties into "why Rip at 4CP", which is, the scaling of 4CP Rip and 5CP Rip are idential (+24% of AP), only the base damage are different. So, in the long run, if you Shred to 4CP, then Rip, you gain more DPS then if you Shred to 4CP and try for a 5th, and risk loosing a CP on a crit. The very minor DPS lost on a 4CP Rip is nothing compared to the damage potential of wasting a CP.
Of course, if you get a combination of regular hits and crits to put you at 5CP even, that's even better. That's going to be luck of the draw, though.
You should find you almost never have a problem getting back up to 4/5 CP's before your last Rip wears off, especially once your crit starts getting in the 40-50% range.
So my bear is 64 now and I'm having a hard time tanking I spam the shit out of maul, swip, mangle, and demo roar, and people my lvl in the same quality of gear as me still just rip agro right the fuck off, which usually makes me spam feral charge and taunt as well. Any tips, or does it get better with lacerate or what?
EWom on
Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited August 2008
Well, uh... do you have 3/3 Feral Instinct?
Spamming Swipe and using Mangle at every cooldown on the primary target should be more than enough to keep aggro from equal level DPSers. How's your AP? I mean, you're not tanking wearing nothing but Of The Stamina gear, right?
I wear mostly of the beast gear. I use spam swipe and mangle on every cooldown yes, but still have people out agro me all the time. One reason might be is I've been running with pally healers lately who refuse to salv DPS they just give them DPS buffs, then give me the healing buff so they can heal me better.
How is maul? Should I just take it off my rotation? I was under the impression it was like Heroic Strike, dmg + threat?
914atk in bearform
1346atk in catform
The only time I really held a solid ammount of agro was opening with hurricane. Also the latest group was terrible at kill order, I'd have standard marsk, skull x sqaure etc, and half of them would be on square.
EWom on
Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited August 2008
Maul is good if you've got a shitload of rage and Swipe/Lacerate just isn't using it up fast enough. In low rage situations it's best to lay off it.
Also, opening with Starfire + Moonfire gets you a nice chunk of aggro right off the bat.
And, Feral Instinct. You should have it if you don't.
Yes, I also have that talent sorry. I talked to one guildie and he basically said if they aren't on target, good luck, and thinks that's probably 90% of the problem. I know for a fact the rogue and hunter in my last group were constantly off target. Oh well maybe it'll get better as my gear/lvl gets higher. Just hit 64 tonight.
EWom on
Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited August 2008
Well, yeah, if your DPS aren't on skull there's nothing you can do other than watch them die and laugh. The more it happens per instance the funnier it gets.
Well, yeah, if your DPS aren't on skull there's nothing you can do other than watch them die and laugh. The more it happens per instance the funnier it gets.
Yeah, this.
Focusing is good, mmk?
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
There's no reason DPS should be peeling any mob. If they are, they need to L2Omen. (If it's a situation where you marked a mob as Freezing Trap and the trap faded before you downed the skull causing the hunter to get hurt, that's understandable because traps are hard to refresh.) ESPECIALLY rogues. If a rogue is peeling a mob, let the fucker die. It's the only way they learn.
A healer might peel adds, though, which is why you need to make sure you build up a little threat on all the mobs, including the ones lower on your kill order. A couple of Swipes and a Demoralizing Roar is usually enough, just make sure you don't accidentally break crowd control while swiping.
Edit: Double-check that everybody knows what the symbols mean, though. You said you use "standard" skull, X, square. Skull -> X is pretty standard, but my guild uses Square to mean "Freezing Trap." Don't make any assumptions about especially with puggers.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
The group started with me saying "Standard marks Kill Skull then x, trap square, sap moon, banish purp, sleep triangle"
The rogue almost always jumped right to X, the lock started casting his first Shadowbolt before I had even gotten close enough to FF or FC. And I do know hunters have to pull agro to trap, or at least to trap well.
The problem with "letting them die" was the healer would try to keep everyone alive, so when rogue was off trying to be uber soloing mobs the healer would blow all her mana trying to keep the rogue alive. Then all the rest of us would die. Me, usually fighting for agro over the warlock and trying to keep broken traps off the hunter, who'd then try and start to kite them around.
I'm honestly surprised we finished the instance. Too bad I forgot to get the quests and have to run it again >:(
EWom on
Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
That's when being the tank in an instance pays off. Generally, you end up group leader so you can mark.
Tell the rogue to attack skull or else. If he doesn't, boot his ass. There are a billion rogues out there, but I've noticed most servers have a drastic shortage of tanks (at least until Death Knights come along).
Or just order the healer to stop healing the rogue. That should end his shenanigans pretty quick.
MuddBudd on
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
You know I was bitching about that quite a few pages back.
MuddBudd on
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited August 2008
Why do they still have the moonkin form AP increase on those things? They got rid of the bloody retarded "melee and gain mana based on your AP" mechanic.
Why do they still have the moonkin form AP increase on those things? They got rid of the bloody retarded "melee and gain mana based on your AP" mechanic.
because moonkins don't really have much cc/snare abilities so they want to give them a slight chance still with melee?
ghost_master2000 on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Why do they still have the moonkin form AP increase on those things? They got rid of the bloody retarded "melee and gain mana based on your AP" mechanic.
because moonkins don't really have much cc/snare abilities so they want to give them a slight chance still with melee?
What the fuck? Are you retarded? Do you think that there's any situation, ever, anywhere, where a spell caster would deal more damage by whacking someone with a staff, and not just their normal staff, no, a special staff they had to get just for the purpose of whacking someone with said staff, than by blasting them with one of their spells?
And "don't really have much cc/snare abilities"? Ever heard of Entangling Roots? Motherfuckin' CYCLONE? Do either of these ring a bell?
Why do they still have the moonkin form AP increase on those things? They got rid of the bloody retarded "melee and gain mana based on your AP" mechanic.
I currently melee warriors up to full mana with my tank staff when I play 2v2 as moonkin. I'll be a sad horribly mutated chicken when that's gone
Why do they still have the moonkin form AP increase on those things? They got rid of the bloody retarded "melee and gain mana based on your AP" mechanic.
because moonkins don't really have much cc/snare abilities so they want to give them a slight chance still with melee?
What the fuck? Are you retarded? Do you think that there's any situation, ever, anywhere, where a spell caster would deal more damage by whacking someone with a staff, and not just their normal staff, no, a special staff they had to get just for the purpose of whacking someone with said staff, than by blasting them with one of their spells?
And "don't really have much cc/snare abilities"? Ever heard of Entangling Roots? Motherfuckin' CYCLONE? Do either of these ring a bell?
I guess I should have used [sarcasm] tags or something lol.
It's pretty obvious that they just haven't removed all traces of the current moonkin mechanic yet.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Why do they still have the moonkin form AP increase on those things? They got rid of the bloody retarded "melee and gain mana based on your AP" mechanic.
because moonkins don't really have much cc/snare abilities so they want to give them a slight chance still with melee?
What the fuck? Are you retarded? Do you think that there's any situation, ever, anywhere, where a spell caster would deal more damage by whacking someone with a staff, and not just their normal staff, no, a special staff they had to get just for the purpose of whacking someone with said staff, than by blasting them with one of their spells?
And "don't really have much cc/snare abilities"? Ever heard of Entangling Roots? Motherfuckin' CYCLONE? Do either of these ring a bell?
I guess I should have used [sarcasm] tags or something lol.
Oh thank god you weren't being serious. I was starting to worry that we've been invaded by posters from the official forums.
Why do they still have the moonkin form AP increase on those things? They got rid of the bloody retarded "melee and gain mana based on your AP" mechanic.
I currently melee warriors up to full mana with my tank staff when I play 2v2 as moonkin. I'll be a sad horribly mutated chicken when that's gone
holy crap are you serious? I could never really get the mana regen thing to work for me very well when I tried out moonkin.
I'm double boxing a rogue/druid combo. The druid is basically just there for the heals so I'm trying to spec resto, but I have no idea what I'm doing. Currently the pair is at level 22. Can anyone throw me an idea for a decent resto spec pre-60?
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Oh I didn't see that. Nice.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
And whenever I want to quickly move from one mob to another, I don't Maim the first mob, I Rip it and let it follow me, doing whatever pitiful damage it does. Unless of course if it's a healer, in that case I finish it properly.
edit: And as MuddBudd mentions below, getting an extra Shred in is always a nice thing about Maim.
I generally use it to move around to their back and get a Shred in. Or to briefly stall casters in PVP.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
That light you just saw was the one in my head finally coming on. THAT's the key concept I was missing, thanks.
Ps4 : Gigawatt666
Steam I.D. : Gigawatt666
LoL : GiG4W4TT
You can look at the moonkin badge gear here and the karazhan cloth caster gear here.
The comments on wowhead might help you make your decision... but I'd look to verify what they say before taking their word. After all, they're people on the internet.
Download Rawr. Rawr is your friend.
Garthor's right. In general, the best stuff you're going to get short of 25-man raids come from the badge vendor on Isle of Quel'Danas. (Edit: With a few pieces from heroic Magister's or Kara/ZA depending on your build and stats.)
That said, full Kara clears with a good guild can be a great way to accumulate badges. 22 badges in four hours is not too shabby.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Hitting exalted with SSO brought me to the 5000 gold I needed to get 300 riding skill and start the Swift Flight Form quest! Glee!
Finishing the Swift Flight Form quest brought me to exalted with Cenarion Expedition so I could buy my Earthwarden! Joy!
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Four combo points.
The additional DPS you get from that fifth combo point on Rip is gonna be less, on average, than the extra DPS you'd get by making sure you have Rip up as much as possible and Mangle up at all times.
If you have high crit and you can grab that fifth combo point without letting Mangle or Rip drop, then go for it, but in general four combo points is good enough.
So: Mangle, Shred to four combo points, Rip. Repeat.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
The practice is correct, Mangle for debuff, shred to 4 CP, Rip. Repeat forever. Als, drop mangle if you have a druid tanking, or if there are multiple DPS druids. Only one druid should be using mangle, it does not stack.
The reason is a bit off. If you're at 4CP, never ever try for a 5th CP, unless you will tick to over 100 energy before your previous Rip falls off, at which point you should use an extra shred. The reason for this is that if you crit, you've just wasted an entire CP (gaining two from the crit, being already at 4). Which ties into "why Rip at 4CP", which is, the scaling of 4CP Rip and 5CP Rip are idential (+24% of AP), only the base damage are different. So, in the long run, if you Shred to 4CP, then Rip, you gain more DPS then if you Shred to 4CP and try for a 5th, and risk loosing a CP on a crit. The very minor DPS lost on a 4CP Rip is nothing compared to the damage potential of wasting a CP.
Of course, if you get a combination of regular hits and crits to put you at 5CP even, that's even better. That's going to be luck of the draw, though.
You should find you almost never have a problem getting back up to 4/5 CP's before your last Rip wears off, especially once your crit starts getting in the 40-50% range.
Spamming Swipe and using Mangle at every cooldown on the primary target should be more than enough to keep aggro from equal level DPSers. How's your AP? I mean, you're not tanking wearing nothing but Of The Stamina gear, right?
Try opening with a moonfire or something.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
How is maul? Should I just take it off my rotation? I was under the impression it was like Heroic Strike, dmg + threat?
914atk in bearform
1346atk in catform
The only time I really held a solid ammount of agro was opening with hurricane. Also the latest group was terrible at kill order, I'd have standard marsk, skull x sqaure etc, and half of them would be on square.
Also, opening with Starfire + Moonfire gets you a nice chunk of aggro right off the bat.
And, Feral Instinct. You should have it if you don't.
Yeah, this.
Focusing is good, mmk?
A healer might peel adds, though, which is why you need to make sure you build up a little threat on all the mobs, including the ones lower on your kill order. A couple of Swipes and a Demoralizing Roar is usually enough, just make sure you don't accidentally break crowd control while swiping.
Edit: Double-check that everybody knows what the symbols mean, though. You said you use "standard" skull, X, square. Skull -> X is pretty standard, but my guild uses Square to mean "Freezing Trap." Don't make any assumptions about especially with puggers.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
The rogue almost always jumped right to X, the lock started casting his first Shadowbolt before I had even gotten close enough to FF or FC. And I do know hunters have to pull agro to trap, or at least to trap well.
The problem with "letting them die" was the healer would try to keep everyone alive, so when rogue was off trying to be uber soloing mobs the healer would blow all her mana trying to keep the rogue alive. Then all the rest of us would die. Me, usually fighting for agro over the warlock and trying to keep broken traps off the hunter, who'd then try and start to kite them around.
I'm honestly surprised we finished the instance. Too bad I forgot to get the quests and have to run it again >:(
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Tell the rogue to attack skull or else. If he doesn't, boot his ass. There are a billion rogues out there, but I've noticed most servers have a drastic shortage of tanks (at least until Death Knights come along).
Or just order the healer to stop healing the rogue. That should end his shenanigans pretty quick.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/august/lootupdate/hallsoflightning_09.jpg
Run Halls of Lightning.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Just wait, it'll be the one instance noone else wants to run.
It's like, "ooh. those numbers are so big! they're bigger than my numbers!" I'll need to see how those numbers stack up against similar items.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
You know I was bitching about that quite a few pages back.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
because moonkins don't really have much cc/snare abilities so they want to give them a slight chance still with melee?
What the fuck? Are you retarded? Do you think that there's any situation, ever, anywhere, where a spell caster would deal more damage by whacking someone with a staff, and not just their normal staff, no, a special staff they had to get just for the purpose of whacking someone with said staff, than by blasting them with one of their spells?
And "don't really have much cc/snare abilities"? Ever heard of Entangling Roots? Motherfuckin' CYCLONE? Do either of these ring a bell?
I currently melee warriors up to full mana with my tank staff when I play 2v2 as moonkin. I'll be a sad horribly mutated chicken when that's gone
I guess I should have used [sarcasm] tags or something lol.
It's pretty obvious that they just haven't removed all traces of the current moonkin mechanic yet.
Oh thank god you weren't being serious. I was starting to worry that we've been invaded by posters from the official forums.
holy crap are you serious? I could never really get the mana regen thing to work for me very well when I tried out moonkin.