So, calling to Egypt has been impossible for me and everyone I know. Some calls get through, but almost nobody I know uses landlines, and it seems that cell networks have completely crippled. No good.
But hey we don't know what the situation is so lets be afraid of Muslim Straw-men and instead support proven murderous and corrupt dictatorships against their own people.
I said I, like our government, am withholding judgment on either side until the details are more clear.
How you translated that into a wild-eyed rant against racist colonialism, I never guess.
The US government picked sides long ago. I don't think there are many Egyptians/Arabs who are confused about what the US supports: Mubarak. I don't need some diplomatic statement/comment/no-comment to tell me about what's been happening since before I was born.
But hey we don't know what the situation is so lets be afraid of Muslim Straw-men and instead support proven murderous and corrupt dictatorships against their own people.
I said I, like our government, am withholding judgment on either side until the details are more clear.
How you translated that into a wild-eyed rant against racist colonialism, I never guess.
The US government picked sides long ago. I don't think there are many Egyptians/Arabs who are confused about what the US supports: Mubarak. I don't need some diplomatic statement/comment/no-comment to tell me about what's been happening since before I was born.
So, calling to Egypt has been impossible for me and everyone I know. Some calls get through, but almost nobody I know uses landlines, and it seems that cell networks have completely crippled. No good.
Well, if we didn't know before we know now that the authorities will do their utmost to prevent anything from happening tomorrow.
This could actually get very ugly. If people do turn out in numbers they'll be shot.
So it's 0320 in Cairo right now, so presuming everyone leaves the Mosques at around 1200hr we have 10 or so hours before large escalations in the main centres like Cairo and Alexandria. Suez already has police abandoning their posts due to being out numbered by angry crowds Bedioun are actuly becoming involved in gun fights with cops in the upper north. Pretty much in about 10 or 12 hrs will be the fulcrum point if the protests gain enough traction or if the security apparatus is able to halt it dead.
Mubarak's son is reported to be still in egypt and attending party emergency meetings.
Bastable on
Philippe about the tactical deployment of german Kradschützen during the battle of Kursk:
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
Word is that El Baradei is going to Egypt to join in the protests. Hope nothing bad happens to him, he seems like a cool guy. Also the only opposition leader I've heard of. He was excluded from the last election, is that correct?
Word is that El Baradei is going to Egypt to join in the protests. Hope nothing bad happens to him, he seems like a cool guy. Also the only opposition leader I've heard of. He was excluded from the last election, is that correct?
No, but his name was starting to get floated as candidate in the next election.
Elki on
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I'll have to see if I can find the jpg that a friend posted on his facebook yesterday. something from anonymous...
edit: got it. Not sure on validity, etc, but here you go:
I'll have to see if I can find the jpg that a friend posted on his facebook yesterday. something from anonymous...
edit: got it. Not sure on validity, etc, but here you go:
Oh please. I'll bet the dictators of the Middle East are shaking in their boots. Their inboxes will be full of child porn and peadobear jokes they won't get.
Casual on
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I don't think I like the 'emergency shutoff for the internet' button.
that seems like something, oh I dunno, that a dictatorship might have. We should not have one of those here.
Tunisia showed other states with oppressive "democratically-elected" regimes that you can collapse the government. Tunisia worked because even though an oppressive regime can crack down on opposition organizations, you can't crack down on an organic uprising if it gains enough strength.
For Egypt reporting, the Guardian is your friend. Their news blog has a nice development of the last three days. http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog
I don't think I like the 'emergency shutoff for the internet' button.
that seems like something, oh I dunno, that a dictatorship might have. We should not have one of those here.
We do have one of those here. Every country does.
It's a lot more complicated than pushing a button, but I'm pretty sure the government owns the transoceanic fiber trunks, and their US-side termini. They can turn those off. They also own several big motherfucking internal switches, which they can turn off. Like, this is a thing that can happen tomorrow, with an executive order.
Salvation122 on
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
I don't think I like the 'emergency shutoff for the internet' button.
that seems like something, oh I dunno, that a dictatorship might have. We should not have one of those here.
We do have one of those here. Every country does.
It's a lot more complicated than pushing a button, but I'm pretty sure the government owns the transoceanic fiber trunks, and their US-side termini. They can turn those off. They also own several big motherfucking internal switches, which they can turn off. Like, this is a thing that can happen tomorrow, with an executive order.
Oddly enough, I am not very comforted knowing that information. Slightly more enlightened, yes, but not comforted. Nor am I really truly surprised.
I'd been avoiding this thread for a bit, because i'm unsure of a lot of my opinions and emotions towards the Middle East/Northern Africa/Them places over there. But I figured part of growing up is facing your fears and having your opinions challenged and learning new things, so, what the heel.
participate, blue dot, and force yourself to think it through.
Indonesia during the fall of Suharto keeps coming to mind, although the parallels are admittedly distant. I hope the "mass rapes and pogroms" bit doesn't recur, though.
Suharto was also US-backed (albeit because of communists and strategic position rather than Islamists and strategic position), and ruled for an exceptionally long time. The discontentment was built up by corruption and cronyism and exacerbated by economic downturn and unemployment.
I don't know whether Coptic Christians still occupy a position similar to Chinese Indonesians in 1998 (owning a disproportionately large share of wealth and therefore resented); it is certainly true that the Coptics were in such a position when Nasser was President of Egypt in the 60s.
Islamic groups in Indonesia tended to emphasize assorted national social issues (free education, free medical care, etc.) over conventionally theocratic issues (sharia law, etc.); the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood is reportedly secularized and nationalist in a similar manner but I daresay events could change suddenly.
ronya on
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I'm finding it interesting that the images that I see on msnbc.com's homepage of these protesters, none of them are covered.
The female I saw had her head uncovered, and her face, and none of the young males are hiding their identities either. Very different than Iran was. Well, somewhat different. After a while, most of the Iranian protesters were hiding their faces. These guys don't seem to mind being identified
Things are quite bad, portugues reporter https://twitter.com/jmsardo#
Plains clothed police have pouring petrol on intersections and veh, presumably to cordon off the main throughfares/set protestors on fire. Uniformed units pulling out.
Christians volunteering to guard Mosques during prayer time.
Muslim Brotherhood members in mass arrests after their unofficial spokes person stated the MB was going to join the protests.
Anon DOS'ing Egyptian embassy sites.
Mubarak's government seems to be readying for massacres without the internet able to get the information out. awful awful.
Bastable on
Philippe about the tactical deployment of german Kradschützen during the battle of Kursk:
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Christians Volunteering to guard mosques during prayer time.
You know, I read everything else that you posted, but my eyes kept going back to that line. and I got this odd sense of warmth. which was then replaced by confusion. and then warmth again.
That's how I took it. I mean... gods, now you just ruined the warm fuzzy feeling I was getting, Henroid.
No, I really think it's in the positive sense. To be fair, these Christians haven't been tainted by Western christianity like ours have. I think this is going to be, in the end, a good thing.
yeah it's an attempt to stop mubarak stooges arrest people while they're praying and organising. Plan seems to have been finish prayer (Friday is Sunday for Muslims) make peace with god and get out there to overthrow the dictatorship.
Egypt security guys are going full monty and are willing it seems to set their own citizens on fire, which is ironic as setting people on fire has tended to end corrupt governments. The dictatorship is utterly insane.
Bastable on
Philippe about the tactical deployment of german Kradschützen during the battle of Kursk:
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
I don't think I like the 'emergency shutoff for the internet' button.
that seems like something, oh I dunno, that a dictatorship might have. We should not have one of those here.
We do have one of those here. Every country does.
It's a lot more complicated than pushing a button, but I'm pretty sure the government owns the transoceanic fiber trunks, and their US-side termini. They can turn those off. They also own several big motherfucking internal switches, which they can turn off. Like, this is a thing that can happen tomorrow, with an executive order.
I'm pretty sure this is not the case.
By it's nature the internet is decentralized. Even without the big cables, you have satellite connections, routing through Canada or wherever, etc.
Not to mention that a huge amount of traffic occurs just within the US.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
Watching the twitter for this is just crazy. I hope this goes as peacefully as possible, I don't think I can watch people shot on cell phone video again while sitting cozy in my not on fire house where the worst thing about my government is that they are lazy.
Egypt security guys are going full monty and are willing it seems to set their own citizens on fire, which is ironic as setting people on fire has tended to end corrupt governments. The dictatorship is utterly insane.
If the army is willing to fire upon the protestors, it's a pretty good indicator that the revolution is doomed. Tiananmen, not Tunisia.
ronya on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
That's how I took it. I mean... gods, now you just ruined the warm fuzzy feeling I was getting, Henroid.
No, I really think it's in the positive sense. To be fair, these Christians haven't been tainted by Western christianity like ours have. I think this is going to be, in the end, a good thing.
God I hope so.
I'm naturally pessimistic, though I try to overcome that. So don't mind me. I'm sure it means they're trying to protect people inside, rather than bar them entry.
That's how I took it. I mean... gods, now you just ruined the warm fuzzy feeling I was getting, Henroid.
No, I really think it's in the positive sense. To be fair, these Christians haven't been tainted by Western christianity like ours have. I think this is going to be, in the end, a good thing.
God I hope so.
Should be noted the reverse happened about a month ago with Muslims standing guard outside churches in the weeks after a Christian service was bombed.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Shit, I won't get much done at school today glancing at my phone all the time for updates. I really hope this doesn't turn bloody, but I'm sorta cynical about the whole thing.
I'm naturally pessimistic, though I try to overcome that. So don't mind me. I'm sure it means they're trying to protect people inside, rather than bar them entry.
I'll help you be pessimistic! Ethnic and religious minorities are generally those who benefit from secular strongman governments of ethnically divided countries - see also Iraq, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc. Their position during revolution is thus always under threat, no matter where they position themselves; Christians in Indonesia may have lined up pro-reformasi when the protests started but the mobs dragged them out of their houses to be murdered or raped in the hundreds all the same.
It doesn't matter if the vast bulk of the protesters don't want to murder Christians (or whoever); a fraction of the mob would suffice. Minorities are, by definition, few in number. And the government has an incentive to disrupt the unity of any opposition, so...
Posts
The US government picked sides long ago. I don't think there are many Egyptians/Arabs who are confused about what the US supports: Mubarak. I don't need some diplomatic statement/comment/no-comment to tell me about what's been happening since before I was born.
Well, if we didn't know before we know now that the authorities will do their utmost to prevent anything from happening tomorrow.
This could actually get very ugly. If people do turn out in numbers they'll be shot.
Mubarak's son is reported to be still in egypt and attending party emergency meetings.
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
No, but his name was starting to get floated as candidate in the next election.
edit: got it. Not sure on validity, etc, but here you go:
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
What's the full scale of everything going on there right now? I saw a couple things about it on Twitter and it sounded sudden and extreme.
I'm betting something bad is about to go down.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Oh please. I'll bet the dictators of the Middle East are shaking in their boots. Their inboxes will be full of child porn and peadobear jokes they won't get.
that seems like something, oh I dunno, that a dictatorship might have. We should not have one of those here.
and I wish I could disagree with you, Mudd
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
For Egypt reporting, the Guardian is your friend. Their news blog has a nice development of the last three days. http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog
Today is the big day, though, isn't it? After the Friday prayers?
But how much we'll hear about if the internet has been suppressed is another story. how much and what, i should say.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
It's a lot more complicated than pushing a button, but I'm pretty sure the government owns the transoceanic fiber trunks, and their US-side termini. They can turn those off. They also own several big motherfucking internal switches, which they can turn off. Like, this is a thing that can happen tomorrow, with an executive order.
Oddly enough, I am not very comforted knowing that information. Slightly more enlightened, yes, but not comforted. Nor am I really truly surprised.
I'd been avoiding this thread for a bit, because i'm unsure of a lot of my opinions and emotions towards the Middle East/Northern Africa/Them places over there. But I figured part of growing up is facing your fears and having your opinions challenged and learning new things, so, what the heel.
participate, blue dot, and force yourself to think it through.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
Suharto was also US-backed (albeit because of communists and strategic position rather than Islamists and strategic position), and ruled for an exceptionally long time. The discontentment was built up by corruption and cronyism and exacerbated by economic downturn and unemployment.
I don't know whether Coptic Christians still occupy a position similar to Chinese Indonesians in 1998 (owning a disproportionately large share of wealth and therefore resented); it is certainly true that the Coptics were in such a position when Nasser was President of Egypt in the 60s.
Islamic groups in Indonesia tended to emphasize assorted national social issues (free education, free medical care, etc.) over conventionally theocratic issues (sharia law, etc.); the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood is reportedly secularized and nationalist in a similar manner but I daresay events could change suddenly.
The female I saw had her head uncovered, and her face, and none of the young males are hiding their identities either. Very different than Iran was. Well, somewhat different. After a while, most of the Iranian protesters were hiding their faces. These guys don't seem to mind being identified
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
Plains clothed police have pouring petrol on intersections and veh, presumably to cordon off the main throughfares/set protestors on fire. Uniformed units pulling out.
Christians volunteering to guard Mosques during prayer time.
Muslim Brotherhood members in mass arrests after their unofficial spokes person stated the MB was going to join the protests.
Anon DOS'ing Egyptian embassy sites.
Mubarak's government seems to be readying for massacres without the internet able to get the information out. awful awful.
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
You know, I read everything else that you posted, but my eyes kept going back to that line. and I got this odd sense of warmth. which was then replaced by confusion. and then warmth again.
interesting times.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
That's how I took it. I mean... gods, now you just ruined the warm fuzzy feeling I was getting, Henroid.
No, I really think it's in the positive sense. To be fair, these Christians haven't been tainted by Western christianity like ours have. I think this is going to be, in the end, a good thing.
God I hope so.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
Egypt security guys are going full monty and are willing it seems to set their own citizens on fire, which is ironic as setting people on fire has tended to end corrupt governments. The dictatorship is utterly insane.
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
I'm pretty sure this is not the case.
By it's nature the internet is decentralized. Even without the big cables, you have satellite connections, routing through Canada or wherever, etc.
Not to mention that a huge amount of traffic occurs just within the US.
If the army is willing to fire upon the protestors, it's a pretty good indicator that the revolution is doomed. Tiananmen, not Tunisia.
I'm naturally pessimistic, though I try to overcome that. So don't mind me. I'm sure it means they're trying to protect people inside, rather than bar them entry.
Should be noted the reverse happened about a month ago with Muslims standing guard outside churches in the weeks after a Christian service was bombed.
Was this also in Egypt? I haven't been following the news much at all the last couple months. :x
I'll help you be pessimistic! Ethnic and religious minorities are generally those who benefit from secular strongman governments of ethnically divided countries - see also Iraq, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc. Their position during revolution is thus always under threat, no matter where they position themselves; Christians in Indonesia may have lined up pro-reformasi when the protests started but the mobs dragged them out of their houses to be murdered or raped in the hundreds all the same.
It doesn't matter if the vast bulk of the protesters don't want to murder Christians (or whoever); a fraction of the mob would suffice. Minorities are, by definition, few in number. And the government has an incentive to disrupt the unity of any opposition, so...
Yes.