So screw dungeons while leveling up.... I am officially done with the trash that plays this game prior to raiding. I could just chaulk it up to a bad weekend of randoms but man were they horrible.
So screw dungeons while leveling up.... I am officially done with the trash that plays this game prior to raiding. I could just chaulk it up to a bad weekend of randoms but man were they horrible.
this demands stories
Well for one I had this healer on my pali in northrend dungeons pulling 2-3 packs in front of me while I already had 2-3 packs on me not dieing fast enough (The reason I was going somewhat slow in the first place). DPS going all out on different mobs and complaining when they die when all my taunts are on CD because I am trying to pickup the mass of mobs the healers is bringing to me. Oh and moonies and shaman using thier pushbacks.... oh man that just pisses me off. The healer gets stunned to death and we all die. His response "I was trying to speed things up." I guess he wanted to pull whole wings. Its hard to play when people play outside thier roles. Especially healers. I just got tired of "go!" or "pull!" from people. Even when playing on my dps it grinds at me.
So I jumped on my priest and tried to heal normal 85 dungeons. Same thing. People just being lazy chain pulling and not dealing with the pulls. This ends up with myself being designated a bad healer because healing 4 others standing in fire or pulling agro or the like is my fault.
I jump on my mage, who is 40, and I run through SM cath a couple of times but then I get bitched out for "not doing enough dps". "Mages should be top dps" this boner tank states. Well perhaps you should play a lowbie one then because the only tools I have at 40 are frostbolt... and well procs to other abilities off of frost bolt. lol.
Ill just quest my last 3 classes up to 85 and screw dungeons for now.
Jubal77 on
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
I'm trying to add "Killing Command" to my Hunter macro (which involves targeting>Hunter's Mark>Pet Attack>Attack target, or something like that), but it won't work. Is there a "wait x seconds" command line or some other kind of delay?
I don't think such a thing exists. The only thing I can think of might be using some cast sequence stuff, but I'm not too familiar with that. Aside from that though, without actually seeing how you've written the macro, it sounds like it wouldn't work anyways cause it'd try to re-apply Hunters Mark each time. What exactly are you trying to get the macro to do?
If there a guide on how the hell I play my DK. I thought it was EZ-Mode; it is so not. And I don't mean EJ's, as all I can seem to glean from that is "Hey this is how you play the DK in end-game content that you've become familiar with!"
Its a really simple priority system:
1. Are diseases up? No? Use Plague Strike and Icy Touch to get them on there.
2. Have FU runes? Use Death Strike/Scourge Strike/Obliterate
3. Just B runes left? Use Blood/Heart Strike
4. Have Runic power? Use Death Coil/Frost Strike.
Different specs will have different procs and abilities that fit in to the priority system, but you should be able to see how they fit in on your own. In general it goes: 1. Diseases 2. Blow Runes to generate Runic power 3. Spend Runic Power
Yes and no. Few slight corrections:
2.a. Unholy: Uses Scourge Strike (Single U rune) and Festering Strike (BF Rune pair)
2.b. Frost: Uses Obliterate (FU rune pair)
2.c. Blood: Uses Death Strike (FU rune pair) and Heart Strike (single B Rune)
3. Single Blood runes are only ever used by Blood via Heart Strike. Frost has permanent Death Runes (function as any rune), Unholy waits for a BF pair for Festering Strike. Blood Strike itself is not used, ever, and is obsolete (except for a few early levels during leveling?)
4. Unholy uses Death Coil, Frost uses Frost Strike, Blood uses Rune Strike. You want to use RP as soon as you can, be aggressive in using it.
My 2 copper on frost:
While leveling, ignore diseases. You just don't need them with Oblit/FS spam. I heartily recommend glyphing Howling Blast, since the free Frost Fever is just nice.
By the time you're hitting targets hard enough to care about diseases, you'll have Outbreak. I like to grab the tier 1 Unholy talent to increase disease time to I think 36 seconds. This means on any lengthy fight, you only have to Plague Strike once every other rotation, and Rime procs will keep FF up the entire time.
Agh, guess I'll give in and buy some tank/melee heirlooms with my hoarded jp/honor. It's too easy to recap with at least a week until the patch, and I've always wanted to be a power mad raving lunatic drunk on his own awesomeness, able to belittle 4 other players regardless of what they do and who they are. And have a shield, mainly the shield.
Plus, it's agonizing to have to heal idiots through a heroic or a 20 minute Tol Barad and get ZERO JP or honor for it. AGONIZING. :P
On the first day of questing for the Firelands, you'll get 12 tokens. This includes 8 tokens for doing lead-in quests and 4 tokens for the first set of dailies. You'll also pick up a quest to collect 20 tokens so you can unlock the next phase of quests. You'll need to do two more days of dailies to get the first 20 tokens, so you're looking at three days spent in Phase One. Once you have 20 tokens, you give them to Arch Druid Hamuul. Then he'll send you on a short quest chain to set up the Firelands location. You'll get 15 more tokens for doing the final quest, which almost replaces the 20 you gave Hamuul. At that point you can jump right into the newly unlocked dailies, which sets your first day tally for Phase Two at 23 Marks. While you're at the Molten Front, don't forget to check in with Zen'Vorka - a new vendor who is unlocked in Phase Two. He has a few iLevel 365 baubles that might be useful for your toon, which you can buy with gold.
There are four quests at the new Molten Front area which will reward a total of 8 tokens. You can still do dailies at the Hyjal location and collect 14 tokens per day in Phase Two. It takes about 11 days to get all of the 150 tokens you need to reach Phase Three. Once you have the tokens, you return to Hyjal and give them to either Saynna Stormrunner at the Sanctuary of Malorne or Skylord Omnuron at the Shrine of Aviana. I went with Omnuron so I could suck up to the Druids of the Talon, but you can pick Saynna if you prefer the Shadow Wardens. After Omnuron flies off, make sure you grab a new quest from the Innkeeper downstairs. She sends you to meet the druids at Malfurion's Breach.
Once you arrive in the Firelands in this phase, there's a new daily available and a quest from Omnuron. He wants you to escort a druid through the fire. This is a typical escort quest where you fight mobs while following the NPC. Just be careful to stay back or you'll take extra fire damage. Completing this quest unlocks the next hub which is underground. There are two daily quests down there, as well as another escort quest. Doing the second escort unlocks a third daily quest at the next hub. Once you complete the underground quests, you are sent back up where you can pick up two more daily quests. Most of the daily quests in Phase 3 are chained. Each day you must complete the Phase 2 dailies before getting Phase 3 dailies. Once you turn in the Phase 2 quests at Malfurion's Breach, the escort quest will light up which let's you start the Phase 3 dailies.
During Phase 3 you can earn 25 tokens per day by doing 14 total daily quests. You'll be stuck in Phase 3 until you collect two sets of 150 tokens for the Shadow Wardens and the Druids of the Talon. That's right, you have to unlock both of them. You can expect to spend about 6 days earning each set of 150 tokens, so 12 days total in Phase 3. Once you give 150 tokens to the leaders of both groups, three NPCs will show up at the Molten Front. Each offers a quest to collect 125 tokens for them.
This part is tricky to read. I'm assuming you need to collect 20, then 150+150, not 20, 150, 150+150. If it's the 2nd way:
Phase 1 takes three days, followed by Phase 2 which takes 11 days. Phase 3 takes 6 days per faction, so 12 days total. Including the 5 days to actually unlock a vendor, you're looking at 31 days to gain access to the new recipes. Add another five days for each additional vendor you want to unlock.
So 36 days straight to be able to access the non-raid epic patterns.
Sounds like ToC all over agian.... but I guess its better than nothing. By the time those 36 days are done I guess we can equip our alts with the pattern gear.
Sounds like ToC all over agian.... but I guess its better than nothing. By the time those 36 days are done I guess we can equip our alts with the pattern gear.
God, I HOPE the dailies are as fun as the ToC ones. I actually really enjoyed the jousting. I made it a point to never use the heal, because you could do 3 valiants and 4 champions without healing if you were good enough.
Still wish there had been an achievement for that.
I jump on my mage, who is 40, and I run through SM cath a couple of times but then I get bitched out for "not doing enough dps". "Mages should be top dps" this boner tank states. Well perhaps you should play a lowbie one then because the only tools I have at 40 are frostbolt... and well procs to other abilities off of frost bolt. lol.
People really group kick over DPS meters in lowbie dungeons? Insanity. The tanks usually beat everyone at those levels anyway with their hilarious AOE abilities. Except for bears. Poor bears.
and I've always wanted to be a power mad raving lunatic drunk on his own awesomeness, able to belittle 4 other players regardless of what they do and who they are. And have a shield, mainly the shield.
It is kind of entertaining. But mostly the instant queues and never having to think "why the fuck isn't this guy pulling, why is this taking so long, argh" again.
Sounds like ToC all over agian.... but I guess its better than nothing. By the time those 36 days are done I guess we can equip our alts with the pattern gear.
God, I HOPE the dailies are as fun as the ToC ones. I actually really enjoyed the jousting. I made it a point to never use the heal, because you could do 3 valiants and 4 champions without healing if you were good enough.
Still wish there had been an achievement for that.
ToC was fun but it took a little bit of a grind (championing) to get to the good/fun dailies. Which hopefully the firelands dailies are not like. It doesnt seem so from the description done but man I could only do the full ToC grind on one char. Doing that grind on several chars just seemed like too much work.
Jousting was not fun the first time. It sucked donkey balls till I figured out how to do it right. Then it was fun for maybe two times. Then I had to do it a thousand more.
I hated those dailies so much that I have not been able to bring myself to try to do the TB dailies on any character until just the last couple of weeks. I do not understand the mind that enjoys doing the same quests over and over and over again. We're looking at what, two solid months of 14 quests a day to unlock everything? Shoot me now.
Sounds like ToC all over agian.... but I guess its better than nothing. By the time those 36 days are done I guess we can equip our alts with the pattern gear.
God, I HOPE the dailies are as fun as the ToC ones. I actually really enjoyed the jousting. I made it a point to never use the heal, because you could do 3 valiants and 4 champions without healing if you were good enough.
Still wish there had been an achievement for that.
ToC was fun but it took a little bit of a grind (championing) to get to the good/fun dailies. Which hopefully the firelands dailies are not like. It doesnt seem so from the description done but man I could only do the full ToC grind on one char. Doing that grind on several chars just seemed like too much work.
As much as people use grinding as a solely negative concept, it does give you a reason to keep at something a lot longer.
I think a big part of the reason that, around March-April, my guild stopped being very active was that we had already done everything. All that was left was raid progress, so that's all we logged on to do. All the rep grinds for this expansion were laughably easy thanks to the tabards, heroics don't reward anything of use once you've been raiding a while, etc. etc. All that's left is rare vanity items, and that's not much of a reason to log on frequently. I don't know how many other guilds are experiencing the same thing, but if this is common, then it's kind of a problem. I know of at least one guild on our server that's dropped from 25s to 10s because they just can't keep people interested in logging on, and this is a guild that's been raiding since MC.
Hopefully these dailies are enough of a grind to keep people around a bit better.
Jousting was not fun the first time. It sucked donkey balls till I figured out how to do it right. Then it was fun for maybe two times. Then I had to do it a thousand more.
I hated those dailies so much that I have not been able to bring myself to try to do the TB dailies on any character until just the last couple of weeks. I do not understand the mind that enjoys doing the same quests over and over and over again. We're looking at what, two solid months of 14 quests a day to unlock everything? Shoot me now.
Then don't do dailies. Hell, then don't play MMOs. Their entire design revolves around various versions of [do action] [wait until reset] [repeat action], whether it's running the same heroics over and over, or the same raids, etc. etc.
I still had fun in the Wrath heroics during ICC. You have to be willing to do things more than once if you're going to stay interested in any MMO very long.
I think a big part of the reason that, around March-April, my guild stopped being very active was that we had already done everything. All that was left was raid progress, so that's all we logged on to do. All the rep grinds for this expansion were laughably easy thanks to the tabards, heroics don't reward anything of use once you've been raiding a while, etc. etc. All that's left is rare vanity items, and that's not much of a reason to log on frequently. I don't know how many other guilds are experiencing the same thing, but if this is common, then it's kind of a problem. I know of at least one guild on our server that's dropped from 25s to 10s because they just can't keep people interested in logging on, and this is a guild that's been raiding since MC.
There is really only two main ways that you can do this sort of daily progression in MMOs... either way involves repeating something over and over again as stated. You could do a simple thing over and over again to increase a counter or you could do a killing or gathering over and over again for a rare item or boss kill to finish that part of the progression.
WoW has favored the counter based approach for its progression forever and has only done a few instances of the one and done rare/encounter based progression (this was done in BC raid attunements). Personally I would like them to throw in more of the one and done progressions again but I know most people hate that. I personally think with the instancing wow does that they could do finely tuned progression instances that are difficult and would allow you to progress along a certain faction or get rare drops off of difficult summoned raid mobs to unlock certain things. But then again im not a fan of entitlement to content.
Edit: We also have gone through the burning out of certain raiders as well. We have been doing hard modes which has helped and I do like the fact that Blizz has made it so that if your in a proper guild raiders should not have to do anything but show up to raids... perhaps add some farming of mats for flasks/food but that can be done by a few people now.
Then don't do dailies. Hell, then don't play MMOs. Their entire design revolves around various versions of [do action] [wait until reset] [repeat action], whether it's running the same heroics over and over, or the same raids, etc. etc.
I still had fun in the Wrath heroics during ICC. You have to be willing to do things more than once if you're going to stay interested in any MMO very long.
What you see as an integral part of the MMO experience I see as a flaw. The ToC dailies were not fun, they punished you for not being able to log in every day and they were a barrier to gaining stuff for use in the actual fun part of the game. I'm sure the third part is functioning entirely as intended, but the first two make it intolerable.
Moreover, the idea that I should stop playing rather than complain about flaws is poisonous. This game has a history of being influenced by the player base's opinions. I think the game would be better without the long daily quest grinds and I'm happy to share that opinion with anyone who will listen.
WoW has its good points, but grinding daily quests is definitely one of the warts in my book.
So, I spoke a bit ago how I think my server is dieing. I ran a Pug last night to Bastion of Twilight. I have a LOT of work ahead of me if I am going to try and take on the daunting task of turning a backwater shit server into a Server where people want to transfer to.
Just putting the Pug together took quite some time. Then Halfus took a bit to kill, mainly because the MT could not interrupt. Not only was he not making the interrupts he was doing my biggest pet peeve and blaming it on other stuff. Saying shit like "I hit Rebuke but it didn't interrupt" pretty much every time. He also claimed he couldn't interrupt every Shadow Nova, and didn't believe me when I said I interrupt it every time no problem considering it has a 12 second cooldown. We had to settle for the Rogue and Mage to alternate interrupts, LOLOL thats right a Mage to alternate interrupts. Because for some reason the Mage can use his 20s cooldown interrupt every other cast, but the Rogue can only use his 10s cooldown interrupt every other cast also.
We got to V&T, and got them to about 50% (second valiona Phase). Which isn't too bad I guess considering I think 7/10 people had never even been in the instance before.
Oh! And I got this guy to respond to a /2 LF 1 DPS for V&T http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/arygos/Selgund/advanced
HAHAHAHAHA, WOW! That is fucking amazing. I brought him in because I didn't want to spam for 20 minutes, and I've killed the fight with 9 people before. He refused to get into Vent also, so we took bets on when he would die. He made it all the way to the Dazzling Destruction where he promptly died in the twilight realm. Thankfully someone piped up and said "I have a Ret pally that will come". So I simply told this guy "IF you want to do raids in the future, I highly suggest you download Ventrilo. And also enchant your gear, gem correctly, don't wear tank boots, and use Glyphs"
How can people be that clueless? I mean, it takes what? close to 40 hours of play time to hit level 85? How do you spend that much time on a game, on one character, and never fucking google the games name?
Beyond the tedium of just doing them dozens and dozens of times, the jousting quests were annoying because the controls were clunky and sluggish. There was always a weird delay (even after they "fixed" it) between hitting a button and having the move come out, as though the game were doing some weird, extraneous client-server ACKs that it never seems to do for most the other vehicles or for player character combat.
Edit: This Molten Front stuff sounds pretty ridiculous in terms of how long it's going to take to get through it. Thankfully I don't need to bother with it on my main raiding character since all the rewards are sub-Firelands quality (shit, they're even worse than heroic T11 items). I might try it on my druid just to see some of the content and quests, but I don't know if I'm going to bother grinding out the 500+ tokens to get any rewards. He's an alt, so I don't know if I'm that concerned with 6 ilevel upgrades.
It seems odd to me that they continue with the daily quest grind design after specifically acknowledging how bad it is to make people feel obligated to log in every single day or fall behind with their redesign of how random heroics worked.
And if they have to put dailies in, I at least hope they make them quick and easy to complete. Stuff like Sunwell isle was pretty fast stuff, 3-4 objectives or a quick bombing run. Seems lately they just slap longer stuff that is more like normal quest design in and you end up spending an hour or more traipsing around Tol Barad feeling your will to live slowly seeping away.
It also doesn't help that they still insist on putting in bear ass quests where only one person gets an ass per kill. That kind of shit slows down group efforts and makes people not really want to team up for dailies.
I'm sure there will be some equivalent quests in the new dailies just to ensure people don't want to group up to get (some) things done more easily.
I think Blizzard's stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand they want to make the game more accessable and fun but on the other hand to retain players and whatnot they need to make it less accessable and tedious ala Farmville. A good chunk of Vanilla WoW's retention was from being able to have or do something very few other people had or did yet, which is why there was such a huge outcry when Epics became more common.
Anyway, due to this Blizzard ends up at odds with itself a lot. They want you to be able to do dungeons whenever you have time and still get good rewards for it because that's more fun. But then the other side rears its head and goes no, you need them logging in every day grinding towards a goal or else they'll get bored and leave (as we've seen has happened for a lot of raiding guilds right now, where they only get on for raids or just plain quit the game since there's nothing to do) so they keep the questing system leashed to dailies and put a daily cap on guild exp. They really just need to decide on a direction and go for it rather than trying to unsuccessfully mix the two sides.
Then don't do dailies. Hell, then don't play MMOs. Their entire design revolves around various versions of [do action] [wait until reset] [repeat action], whether it's running the same heroics over and over, or the same raids, etc. etc.
I still had fun in the Wrath heroics during ICC. You have to be willing to do things more than once if you're going to stay interested in any MMO very long.
What you see as an integral part of the MMO experience I see as a flaw. The ToC dailies were not fun, they punished you for not being able to log in every day and they were a barrier to gaining stuff for use in the actual fun part of the game. I'm sure the third part is functioning entirely as intended, but the first two make it intolerable.
Moreover, the idea that I should stop playing rather than complain about flaws is poisonous. This game has a history of being influenced by the player base's opinions. I think the game would be better without the long daily quest grinds and I'm happy to share that opinion with anyone who will listen.
WoW has its good points, but grinding daily quests is definitely one of the warts in my book.
I'm not saying you should quit because you're wrong, I'm saying that you say you don't enjoy doing the same things over and over, which is what MMOs amount to.
What fun parts did the ToC dailies bar off? Vanity pets? Recolored mounts?
I agree that Blizzard's painted themselves into a corner by attempting to appeal to everyone. Then again, they've been pretty successful in keeping everyone at least mostly happy.
I didn't mind the Tournament dailies at all. Did them a grand total of five times. Once on my main, to buy all the pets. Then I faction transferred and did the whole thing again to get my titles back and the other pets. Then I did them on my boyfriend's paladin, so he could be super RP with his title and special pony when he came home from deployment. I concurrently did them on another character of mine so I would have money, what with my main being off somewhere else. Then I did them on my paladin for an RP pony of my own.
But aside from my main, I didn't grind them. That hub was out for over a year, and unless you needed money right then, there wasn't much reason to. And there is pretty much never anything you need on the gated vendors. If you need it that bad, pay someone who has the pattern already. Of course, when you need that money, you'll probably be glad the dailies are there, grind-y or not.
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TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Yesterday I was complaining about my fishing luck, and today I got the giant sewer rat in Dalaran within 10 casts.
Also, a friend of mine made a lowbie healer and I made a tank. DM/RC are hells a lot of fun when you know that the tank and healer aren't retarded. I had a level 19 shammy in DM doing 8 dps (While as a pally tank I was doing about 65ish). Was painful, but at least aggro wasn't lost.
Rumor has it that a lot of the Fireland Daily quests are the same as the Tol Barad "Walk a Mile in their Shoes" quest.
One shot Heroic Atramedes tonight. We had pulled him on Heroic mode exactly 3 times like 2 months ago before we made roster changes. And everyone says "Holy shit, why didn't we do that 2 months ago?" We also got Heroic Maloriak to the second phase, ~5 Million health. Hopefully looking at a kill next week. We are having problems with killling the Adds. My OT can't handle 3 adds + 5 Swills, so we just do 9 in green phase. But the DPS are having trouble finishing off all 9 before the phase ends. Also, we have an Arcane mage, so Arcane Blast applies Slow which slows Casting speed which makes dodging Magma Jets fucking god damn retarded. Also downed Heroic Magmaw for the second time (missed it last week due to scheduling).
I was kidding about the fireland daily quests being the same as one of the worst quests ever put in the game. I hope I'm wrong at least. PLEASE GOD DON'T LET THERE BE A QUEST LIKE THAT!
Think I'm done after I complete the Fire Festival stuff for my first holiday meta. Seems like a good retiring point for someone who can't raid with their friends anymore.
Think I'm done after I complete the Fire Festival stuff for my first holiday meta. Seems like a good retiring point for someone who can't raid with their friends anymore.
Think I'm done after I complete the Fire Festival stuff for my first holiday meta. Seems like a good retiring point for someone who can't raid with their friends anymore.
Why, what are your friends doing?
Half are burnt out, the other half are on their way. We were raiding from fairly early on in the expansion, but the only "end boss" we got down was Cho'gall. Six months of only occasionally getting a good group together took its toll. Too often we'd end up with 7, 8, or 9 people and pugging to fill the holes. Recruiting was a pretty dreadful process, with few showing interest and even less having any promise.
Six months of raiding to only get 9/12 normal mode bosses down is pretty draining. Lots of weeks were spent doing "entry content" (the first two in BoT or the first three in BWL) in order to gear up replacements/new members (only to have many of them stop showing up/be unreliable) or trying to get *something* done with pug groups.
We started off well enough, but recently it was just bad times.
Now I all I do every day is dailies. I really dislike the TB dailies because they take forever to do. I did like when the dailes first came out with the Orgri'la/ Skyguard ones.
I know they needed work but they were kind of fun to do then onto the Shattered Sun they were fun and kind of quick with a change at a badge. Next were the Kalu'ak, Wyrmrest ones in Wrath with the usual fishing/cooking. By the time TOC came out I thought those dailes were fun!
By the time I could unlock all the dailies I could do 15 quests and a dungeon on two different characters within 90 minutes
Now the first time I tried Tb it was crowded when it started to empty out after a few weeks I figured out why besides a Walk in thier shoes why that whole zone was crap. It takes me over 2 hours to do 10 quests with crappy rewards!
I was about to start complaining that my server was shitting itself, but then NPCscan went off, and it actually turned out to be a good thing that there was no one else on.
I zone into Deepholm on my Warlock and there he is, flying above the entrance. My girlfriend, who was taking a sip of water at the time, pretty much spat water all over the bed and jumped out, logged in, I summoned her, and now my girlfriend just got Reins of the Phosphorescent Stone Drake
darklite_xI'm not an r-tard...Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
That fucking stone drake ruined the game for me. Found that fucking thing the first week the xpack was out, hopped on and lo and behold could NOT hit it as a melee character. Found out later there was a bug where you had to turn your camera backward to hit it or some shit, but it just kept pounding on me while I couldn't do shit. Hopped off and it despawned. Fuck that piece of shit drake.
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The Tol'Barad quests are horrible. I could churn out the ToC dailies in maybe 20 mins on my own, but the TB ones, you're being optimistic in thinking you can get them all done in an hour on your own. And they're dull, more due to the fact most involve you killing X mobs with 90-100k health each time.
The only way those TB quests would be worse for me, was if the zone flagged me on my pve server (you'll not be surprised that the alliance who make up 80% of my server want that zone to flag people all the time).
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AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
The Tol'Barad quests are horrible. I could churn out the ToC dailies in maybe 20 mins on my own, but the TB ones, you're being optimistic in thinking you can get them all done in an hour on your own. And they're dull, more due to the fact most involve you killing X mobs with 90-100k health each time.
The only way those TB quests would be worse for me, was if the zone flagged me on my pve server (you'll not be surprised that the alliance who make up 80% of my server want that zone to flag people all the time).
Yeah, my server is something like 90% horde nowadays. I really wish I wasn't on a pvp server because the entire zone is basically all the horde sitting on top of the graveyards waiting for people to res.
The Tol'Barad quests are horrible. I could churn out the ToC dailies in maybe 20 mins on my own, but the TB ones, you're being optimistic in thinking you can get them all done in an hour on your own. And they're dull, more due to the fact most involve you killing X mobs with 90-100k health each time.
The only way those TB quests would be worse for me, was if the zone flagged me on my pve server (you'll not be surprised that the alliance who make up 80% of my server want that zone to flag people all the time).
Eh, I'd say I regularly finished all the TB quests in ~30 minutes a day when I was doing them. On a PvE server, anyway. 45 tops.
The Tol'Barad quests are horrible. I could churn out the ToC dailies in maybe 20 mins on my own, but the TB ones, you're being optimistic in thinking you can get them all done in an hour on your own. And they're dull, more due to the fact most involve you killing X mobs with 90-100k health each time.
The only way those TB quests would be worse for me, was if the zone flagged me on my pve server (you'll not be surprised that the alliance who make up 80% of my server want that zone to flag people all the time).
Depends on the class.
Tanks for example, were able to solo all Tol Barad Dalies and pretty quickly too. It took me 20-30 minutes to Solo them when I was doing them back in December. But my friends would wait for me to log on to do them, because some of the quests weren't worth the trouble for them.
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this demands stories
Well for one I had this healer on my pali in northrend dungeons pulling 2-3 packs in front of me while I already had 2-3 packs on me not dieing fast enough (The reason I was going somewhat slow in the first place). DPS going all out on different mobs and complaining when they die when all my taunts are on CD because I am trying to pickup the mass of mobs the healers is bringing to me. Oh and moonies and shaman using thier pushbacks.... oh man that just pisses me off. The healer gets stunned to death and we all die. His response "I was trying to speed things up." I guess he wanted to pull whole wings. Its hard to play when people play outside thier roles. Especially healers. I just got tired of "go!" or "pull!" from people. Even when playing on my dps it grinds at me.
So I jumped on my priest and tried to heal normal 85 dungeons. Same thing. People just being lazy chain pulling and not dealing with the pulls. This ends up with myself being designated a bad healer because healing 4 others standing in fire or pulling agro or the like is my fault.
I jump on my mage, who is 40, and I run through SM cath a couple of times but then I get bitched out for "not doing enough dps". "Mages should be top dps" this boner tank states. Well perhaps you should play a lowbie one then because the only tools I have at 40 are frostbolt... and well procs to other abilities off of frost bolt. lol.
Ill just quest my last 3 classes up to 85 and screw dungeons for now.
6!!! missing glyphs. Must of spent his gold on firefin snapper and whores.
My 2 copper on frost:
While leveling, ignore diseases. You just don't need them with Oblit/FS spam. I heartily recommend glyphing Howling Blast, since the free Frost Fever is just nice.
By the time you're hitting targets hard enough to care about diseases, you'll have Outbreak. I like to grab the tier 1 Unholy talent to increase disease time to I think 36 seconds. This means on any lengthy fight, you only have to Plague Strike once every other rotation, and Rime procs will keep FF up the entire time.
Plus, it's agonizing to have to heal idiots through a heroic or a 20 minute Tol Barad and get ZERO JP or honor for it. AGONIZING. :P
http://kaliope.crafterstome.com/2011/06/guardians-of-hyjal-vendors.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+kaliope-blog+%28Kaliope%27s+WoW+Crafting+Beta+Blog%29] Kaliope!
Zen'vorka
This part is tricky to read. I'm assuming you need to collect 20, then 150+150, not 20, 150, 150+150. If it's the 2nd way:
So 36 days straight to be able to access the non-raid epic patterns.
We are not very good at continually doing daily quests that we don't need to, and we're a 10m raiding guild with about exactly 11 members.
God, I HOPE the dailies are as fun as the ToC ones. I actually really enjoyed the jousting. I made it a point to never use the heal, because you could do 3 valiants and 4 champions without healing if you were good enough.
Still wish there had been an achievement for that.
People really group kick over DPS meters in lowbie dungeons? Insanity. The tanks usually beat everyone at those levels anyway with their hilarious AOE abilities. Except for bears. Poor bears.
It is kind of entertaining. But mostly the instant queues and never having to think "why the fuck isn't this guy pulling, why is this taking so long, argh" again.
ToC was fun but it took a little bit of a grind (championing) to get to the good/fun dailies. Which hopefully the firelands dailies are not like. It doesnt seem so from the description done but man I could only do the full ToC grind on one char. Doing that grind on several chars just seemed like too much work.
I hated those dailies so much that I have not been able to bring myself to try to do the TB dailies on any character until just the last couple of weeks. I do not understand the mind that enjoys doing the same quests over and over and over again. We're looking at what, two solid months of 14 quests a day to unlock everything? Shoot me now.
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As much as people use grinding as a solely negative concept, it does give you a reason to keep at something a lot longer.
I think a big part of the reason that, around March-April, my guild stopped being very active was that we had already done everything. All that was left was raid progress, so that's all we logged on to do. All the rep grinds for this expansion were laughably easy thanks to the tabards, heroics don't reward anything of use once you've been raiding a while, etc. etc. All that's left is rare vanity items, and that's not much of a reason to log on frequently. I don't know how many other guilds are experiencing the same thing, but if this is common, then it's kind of a problem. I know of at least one guild on our server that's dropped from 25s to 10s because they just can't keep people interested in logging on, and this is a guild that's been raiding since MC.
Hopefully these dailies are enough of a grind to keep people around a bit better.
Then don't do dailies. Hell, then don't play MMOs. Their entire design revolves around various versions of [do action] [wait until reset] [repeat action], whether it's running the same heroics over and over, or the same raids, etc. etc.
I still had fun in the Wrath heroics during ICC. You have to be willing to do things more than once if you're going to stay interested in any MMO very long.
There is really only two main ways that you can do this sort of daily progression in MMOs... either way involves repeating something over and over again as stated. You could do a simple thing over and over again to increase a counter or you could do a killing or gathering over and over again for a rare item or boss kill to finish that part of the progression.
WoW has favored the counter based approach for its progression forever and has only done a few instances of the one and done rare/encounter based progression (this was done in BC raid attunements). Personally I would like them to throw in more of the one and done progressions again but I know most people hate that. I personally think with the instancing wow does that they could do finely tuned progression instances that are difficult and would allow you to progress along a certain faction or get rare drops off of difficult summoned raid mobs to unlock certain things. But then again im not a fan of entitlement to content.
Edit: We also have gone through the burning out of certain raiders as well. We have been doing hard modes which has helped and I do like the fact that Blizz has made it so that if your in a proper guild raiders should not have to do anything but show up to raids... perhaps add some farming of mats for flasks/food but that can be done by a few people now.
What you see as an integral part of the MMO experience I see as a flaw. The ToC dailies were not fun, they punished you for not being able to log in every day and they were a barrier to gaining stuff for use in the actual fun part of the game. I'm sure the third part is functioning entirely as intended, but the first two make it intolerable.
Moreover, the idea that I should stop playing rather than complain about flaws is poisonous. This game has a history of being influenced by the player base's opinions. I think the game would be better without the long daily quest grinds and I'm happy to share that opinion with anyone who will listen.
WoW has its good points, but grinding daily quests is definitely one of the warts in my book.
0431-6094-6446-7088
Edit: This Molten Front stuff sounds pretty ridiculous in terms of how long it's going to take to get through it. Thankfully I don't need to bother with it on my main raiding character since all the rewards are sub-Firelands quality (shit, they're even worse than heroic T11 items). I might try it on my druid just to see some of the content and quests, but I don't know if I'm going to bother grinding out the 500+ tokens to get any rewards. He's an alt, so I don't know if I'm that concerned with 6 ilevel upgrades.
And if they have to put dailies in, I at least hope they make them quick and easy to complete. Stuff like Sunwell isle was pretty fast stuff, 3-4 objectives or a quick bombing run. Seems lately they just slap longer stuff that is more like normal quest design in and you end up spending an hour or more traipsing around Tol Barad feeling your will to live slowly seeping away.
I'm sure there will be some equivalent quests in the new dailies just to ensure people don't want to group up to get (some) things done more easily.
Anyway, due to this Blizzard ends up at odds with itself a lot. They want you to be able to do dungeons whenever you have time and still get good rewards for it because that's more fun. But then the other side rears its head and goes no, you need them logging in every day grinding towards a goal or else they'll get bored and leave (as we've seen has happened for a lot of raiding guilds right now, where they only get on for raids or just plain quit the game since there's nothing to do) so they keep the questing system leashed to dailies and put a daily cap on guild exp. They really just need to decide on a direction and go for it rather than trying to unsuccessfully mix the two sides.
I'm not saying you should quit because you're wrong, I'm saying that you say you don't enjoy doing the same things over and over, which is what MMOs amount to.
What fun parts did the ToC dailies bar off? Vanity pets? Recolored mounts?
I agree that Blizzard's painted themselves into a corner by attempting to appeal to everyone. Then again, they've been pretty successful in keeping everyone at least mostly happy.
But aside from my main, I didn't grind them. That hub was out for over a year, and unless you needed money right then, there wasn't much reason to. And there is pretty much never anything you need on the gated vendors. If you need it that bad, pay someone who has the pattern already. Of course, when you need that money, you'll probably be glad the dailies are there, grind-y or not.
Also, a friend of mine made a lowbie healer and I made a tank. DM/RC are hells a lot of fun when you know that the tank and healer aren't retarded. I had a level 19 shammy in DM doing 8 dps (While as a pally tank I was doing about 65ish). Was painful, but at least aggro wasn't lost.
One shot Heroic Atramedes tonight. We had pulled him on Heroic mode exactly 3 times like 2 months ago before we made roster changes. And everyone says "Holy shit, why didn't we do that 2 months ago?" We also got Heroic Maloriak to the second phase, ~5 Million health. Hopefully looking at a kill next week. We are having problems with killling the Adds. My OT can't handle 3 adds + 5 Swills, so we just do 9 in green phase. But the DPS are having trouble finishing off all 9 before the phase ends. Also, we have an Arcane mage, so Arcane Blast applies Slow which slows Casting speed which makes dodging Magma Jets fucking god damn retarded. Also downed Heroic Magmaw for the second time (missed it last week due to scheduling).
I was kidding about the fireland daily quests being the same as one of the worst quests ever put in the game. I hope I'm wrong at least. PLEASE GOD DON'T LET THERE BE A QUEST LIKE THAT!
Guild is falling apart
Think I'm done after I complete the Fire Festival stuff for my first holiday meta. Seems like a good retiring point for someone who can't raid with their friends anymore.
Why, what are your friends doing?
Half are burnt out, the other half are on their way. We were raiding from fairly early on in the expansion, but the only "end boss" we got down was Cho'gall. Six months of only occasionally getting a good group together took its toll. Too often we'd end up with 7, 8, or 9 people and pugging to fill the holes. Recruiting was a pretty dreadful process, with few showing interest and even less having any promise.
Six months of raiding to only get 9/12 normal mode bosses down is pretty draining. Lots of weeks were spent doing "entry content" (the first two in BoT or the first three in BWL) in order to gear up replacements/new members (only to have many of them stop showing up/be unreliable) or trying to get *something* done with pug groups.
We started off well enough, but recently it was just bad times.
I know they needed work but they were kind of fun to do then onto the Shattered Sun they were fun and kind of quick with a change at a badge. Next were the Kalu'ak, Wyrmrest ones in Wrath with the usual fishing/cooking. By the time TOC came out I thought those dailes were fun!
By the time I could unlock all the dailies I could do 15 quests and a dungeon on two different characters within 90 minutes
Now the first time I tried Tb it was crowded when it started to empty out after a few weeks I figured out why besides a Walk in thier shoes why that whole zone was crap. It takes me over 2 hours to do 10 quests with crappy rewards!
I zone into Deepholm on my Warlock and there he is, flying above the entrance. My girlfriend, who was taking a sip of water at the time, pretty much spat water all over the bed and jumped out, logged in, I summoned her, and now my girlfriend just got Reins of the Phosphorescent Stone Drake
The only way those TB quests would be worse for me, was if the zone flagged me on my pve server (you'll not be surprised that the alliance who make up 80% of my server want that zone to flag people all the time).
Yeah, my server is something like 90% horde nowadays. I really wish I wasn't on a pvp server because the entire zone is basically all the horde sitting on top of the graveyards waiting for people to res.
It's pretty annoying. I always do it out of the main cities. So much easier in Thunder Bluff than Org.
Eh, I'd say I regularly finished all the TB quests in ~30 minutes a day when I was doing them. On a PvE server, anyway. 45 tops.
Depends on the class.
Tanks for example, were able to solo all Tol Barad Dalies and pretty quickly too. It took me 20-30 minutes to Solo them when I was doing them back in December. But my friends would wait for me to log on to do them, because some of the quests weren't worth the trouble for them.