Quickly scanning the UDHR, these seem relevant to the discussion:
Article 3
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
Article 6
Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
Article 7
All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
Article 9
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
Article 10
Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
Article 12 is fascinating, btw:
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
Article 13
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
Article 15
1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
Article 25
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
But nothing specific with regards to self-defense. Though I believe that may be covered in the (many) articles referencing the right to fair trial.
I'm thinking the right to defend ones life, family, and property, not trial rights and so forth.
Are those enshrined in our constitution somewhere, or any similar document you can think of?
well, the Declaration declares (heh) that individuals have an unalienable right to life and liberty, and the Constitution's preamble declares that the document's intention is in part to "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves". That document includes the 2nd, which of course provides the freedom from government infringement on the right to possess & carry a weapon. Likewise the 5th amendment respects property rights by denying the government the ability to seize it without due process.
Aside from the protections of the second, those seem to exist UDHR. Both seem to lack an explicit right to defend the rights using force.
I don't think an explicit right to use force is necessary - how else would you defend the right to your own life?
It seems that the UDHR doesn't even include an implied right to self defense, and certainly doesn't include a right to possess a weapon for that (or any other) purpose.
The right to rebel against a tyrannical government and the right for individuals to rebel against what they consider tyranny are pretty clearly distinct things in enlightenment thinking. Whiskey Rebellion, QED.
Also the 2nd amendment inherently includes the idea of some sort of infringement on possessing weapons, except for the NRA definition which pretends that "a well regulated militia" is just a big ol' typo that can be ignored. And 5th amendment's property rights are pretty specific in scope.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
my buddy is apparently super into hurling and started a hurling club at her university. today they trounced my school in an intramural competition
but I guess also her brother is a professional player in Ireland?
hurling, more than a term for... like, road bowling? or chucking rocks or something? the fuck?(edit Field hockey, basically)... in the united states is a term for throwing up after drinking too much.
which makes this hilarious.
redx on
They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
i didn't really listen to anything after they started putting pay-what-you-want stuff on the internet, but i still remember electioneering, idioteque, no surprises etc fondly
Quickly scanning the UDHR, these seem relevant to the discussion:
Article 3
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
Article 6
Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
Article 7
All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
Article 9
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
Article 10
Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
Article 12 is fascinating, btw:
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
Article 13
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
Article 15
1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
Article 25
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
But nothing specific with regards to self-defense. Though I believe that may be covered in the (many) articles referencing the right to fair trial.
I'm thinking the right to defend ones life, family, and property, not trial rights and so forth.
Are those enshrined in our constitution somewhere, or any similar document you can think of?
well, the Declaration declares (heh) that individuals have an unalienable right to life and liberty, and the Constitution's preamble declares that the document's intention is in part to "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves". That document includes the 2nd, which of course provides the freedom from government infringement on the right to possess & carry a weapon. Likewise the 5th amendment respects property rights by denying the government the ability to seize it without due process.
Aside from the protections of the second, those seem to exist UDHR. Both seem to lack an explicit right to defend the rights using force.
I don't think an explicit right to use force is necessary - how else would you defend the right to your own life?
It seems that the UDHR doesn't even include an implied right to self defense, and certainly doesn't include a right to possess a weapon for that (or any other) purpose.
The right to rebel against a tyrannical government and the right for individuals to rebel against what they consider tyranny are pretty clearly distinct things in enlightenment thinking. Whiskey Rebellion, QED.
Also the 2nd amendment inherently includes the idea of some sort of infringement on possessing weapons, except for the NRA definition which pretends that "a well regulated militia" is just a big ol' typo that can be ignored. And 5th amendment's property rights are pretty specific in scope.
I mentioned both of those further up the quote tree!
Quickly scanning the UDHR, these seem relevant to the discussion:
Article 3
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
Article 6
Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
Article 7
All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
Article 9
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
Article 10
Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
Article 12 is fascinating, btw:
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
Article 13
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
Article 15
1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
Article 25
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
But nothing specific with regards to self-defense. Though I believe that may be covered in the (many) articles referencing the right to fair trial.
I'm thinking the right to defend ones life, family, and property, not trial rights and so forth.
Are those enshrined in our constitution somewhere, or any similar document you can think of?
well, the Declaration declares (heh) that individuals have an unalienable right to life and liberty, and the Constitution's preamble declares that the document's intention is in part to "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves". That document includes the 2nd, which of course provides the freedom from government infringement on the right to possess & carry a weapon. Likewise the 5th amendment respects property rights by denying the government the ability to seize it without due process.
Aside from the protections of the second, those seem to exist UDHR. Both seem to lack an explicit right to defend the rights using force.
I don't think an explicit right to use force is necessary - how else would you defend the right to your own life?
It seems that the UDHR doesn't even include an implied right to self defense, and certainly doesn't include a right to possess a weapon for that (or any other) purpose.
The right to rebel against a tyrannical government and the right for individuals to rebel against what they consider tyranny are pretty clearly distinct things in enlightenment thinking. Whiskey Rebellion, QED.
Also the 2nd amendment inherently includes the idea of some sort of infringement on possessing weapons, except for the NRA definition which pretends that "a well regulated militia" is just a big ol' typo that can be ignored. And 5th amendment's property rights are pretty specific in scope.
I mentioned both of those further up the quote tree!
I deleted my last post because I eventually saw your response and thought "Oh never mind I see what he's saying here and I think in the end we can both agree that most "universal" documents tend to occasionally suffer from being vague to the point of uselessness."
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AlazullYour body is not a temple, it's an amusement park.Enjoy the ride.Registered Userregular
Guys, I have the next two days off.
I'm going to Fallout so hard. I might watch the Seahawks tomorrow but who knows, I might also stock my house with frozen pizza and not be seen until...
Oh yeah that's right my roommate is inviting a bunch of people over for a game night deal...
Fuck, I guess they'll see me Monday night then. But I reserve the right to be in a bathrobe the whole time.
User name Alazull on Steam, PSN, Nintenders, Epic, etc.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
my buddy is apparently super into hurling and started a hurling club at her university. today they trounced my school in an intramural competition
but I guess also her brother is a professional player in Ireland?
hurling, more than a term for... like, road bowling? or chucking rocks or something? the fuck?(edit Field hockey, basically)... in the united states is a term for throwing up after drinking too much.
which makes this hilarious.
Imagine lacrosse played as a contact sport
Kind of like ice hockey on grass
It's mental
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
There is another major difference between AQ and ISIL. AQ generally is aiming to take lawless areas and turn them into small nation states that can be merged later. So they tend to ally with various groups conducting insurgencies in an area. Various groups affiliated with AQ hold territory, such as JaN in Syria. With AQ having an eye to the future in terms of being the common force to unite these small emirates. ISIL has the goal of building their own nation state, with the long term goal of military conquest. This tends to lead AQ to a certain amount of plays well with others that ISIL doesn't have. But it also puts ISIL in a more vulnerable position. Land can more easily be taken away from ISIL and it reflects on them. If an AQ ally fails, it doesn't really set back AQ very much.
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TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
my buddy is apparently super into hurling and started a hurling club at her university. today they trounced my school in an intramural competition
but I guess also her brother is a professional player in Ireland?
hurling, more than a term for... like, road bowling? or chucking rocks or something? the fuck?(edit Field hockey, basically)... in the united states is a term for throwing up after drinking too much.
which makes this hilarious.
Imagine lacrosse played as a contact sport
Kind of like ice hockey on grass
It's mental
this was actually my understanding of men's field hockey. The club dealie is just differently shaped.
Like, this thing on grass with guys batting around a little ball with sticks has been a fairly violent sport for... it's like aztec? originally, iirc.
redx on
They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
There is another major difference between AQ and ISIL. AQ generally is aiming to take lawless areas and turn them into small nation states that can be merged later. So they tend to ally with various groups conducting insurgencies in an area. Various groups affiliated with AQ hold territory, such as JaN in Syria. With AQ having an eye to the future in terms of being the common force to unite these small emirates. ISIL has the goal of building their own nation state, with the long term goal of military conquest. This tends to lead AQ to a certain amount of plays well with others that ISIL doesn't have. But it also puts ISIL in a more vulnerable position. Land can more easily be taken away from ISIL and it reflects on them. If an AQ ally fails, it doesn't really set back AQ very much.
I did not know that about AQ!
The ISIL stuff makes sense. The article I read talked a bit about some of the ways the religious nature of ISIL can be exploited - one of them is that it's basically forbidden for them to make actual treaties or set borders
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BeNarwhalThe Work Left UnfinishedRegistered Userregular
Lacrosse was my idea of contact-sport-lacrosse.
Are you other countries playing it wrong?
Probably, I bet.
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TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
i tried to find a good hurling video but every single one has awful music superimposed over it
it is actually kind of impressive how consistently awful it is
There is another major difference between AQ and ISIL. AQ generally is aiming to take lawless areas and turn them into small nation states that can be merged later. So they tend to ally with various groups conducting insurgencies in an area. Various groups affiliated with AQ hold territory, such as JaN in Syria. With AQ having an eye to the future in terms of being the common force to unite these small emirates. ISIL has the goal of building their own nation state, with the long term goal of military conquest. This tends to lead AQ to a certain amount of plays well with others that ISIL doesn't have. But it also puts ISIL in a more vulnerable position. Land can more easily be taken away from ISIL and it reflects on them. If an AQ ally fails, it doesn't really set back AQ very much.
I did not know that about AQ!
The ISIL stuff makes sense. The article I read talked a bit about some of the ways the religious nature of ISIL can be exploited - one of them is that it's basically forbidden for them to make actual treaties or set borders
Yeah, so here is the thing. I wouldn't count on either of those things. I'll point out that hard core Christian fundies ignore the very simple "Thou shall not kill" all of the time. And from a practical perspective, they engage in informal exchanges with other groups. The one that comes to mind is that they sell oil to the SAA constantly, and exchange other services.
my buddy is apparently super into hurling and started a hurling club at her university. today they trounced my school in an intramural competition
but I guess also her brother is a professional player in Ireland?
hurling, more than a term for... like, road bowling? or chucking rocks or something? the fuck?(edit Field hockey, basically)... in the united states is a term for throwing up after drinking too much.
which makes this hilarious.
Imagine lacrosse played as a contact sport
Kind of like ice hockey on grass
It's mental
this was actually my understanding of men's field hockey. The club dealie is just differently shaped.
Like, this thing on grass with guys batting around a little ball with sticks has been a fairly violent sport for... it's like aztec? originally, iirc.
Field hockey is at least notionally non-contact, plus you can't play the ball in the air as in hurling/shinty, or handle the ball as in hurling.
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TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
Posts
As such, I'd fight you haters but I know that everything is transient and will cease to exist soon enough so
watevs
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
until we get war fatigue
god i love andrew wk
my buddy is apparently super into hurling and started a hurling club at her university. today they trounced my school in an intramural competition
but I guess also her brother is a professional player in Ireland?
The right to rebel against a tyrannical government and the right for individuals to rebel against what they consider tyranny are pretty clearly distinct things in enlightenment thinking. Whiskey Rebellion, QED.
Also the 2nd amendment inherently includes the idea of some sort of infringement on possessing weapons, except for the NRA definition which pretends that "a well regulated militia" is just a big ol' typo that can be ignored. And 5th amendment's property rights are pretty specific in scope.
WHOOP WHOOP
hurling, more than a term for... like, road bowling? or chucking rocks or something? the fuck?(edit Field hockey, basically)... in the united states is a term for throwing up after drinking too much.
which makes this hilarious.
chu they're perfectly fine to like
female hurling is called "camogie"
also it's an amateur sport
i dislike it for a lot of reasons (none of which are related to the sport itself) but it's impressive as hell to watch
it makes lacrosse look even more like shit
I mentioned both of those further up the quote tree!
hmmmmmmmm
@Dark Raven X
...
I'd love it if you took a look at my art and my PATREON!
Oh man
I love a parade
I guess US hurling is cooed which is interesting and kind of awesome
it is pretty rad as fuck to watch.
and yeah who the fuck cares about lacross is you can watch it
Hurling is basically organized brawling with sticks, and a small rock as the excuse for the fight.
I deleted my last post because I eventually saw your response and thought "Oh never mind I see what he's saying here and I think in the end we can both agree that most "universal" documents tend to occasionally suffer from being vague to the point of uselessness."
I'm going to Fallout so hard. I might watch the Seahawks tomorrow but who knows, I might also stock my house with frozen pizza and not be seen until...
Oh yeah that's right my roommate is inviting a bunch of people over for a game night deal...
Fuck, I guess they'll see me Monday night then. But I reserve the right to be in a bathrobe the whole time.
I played 1 and 2 I think on psx. fun games.
golden eraaaaaaaaaaa
(they're all golden eras)
Imagine lacrosse played as a contact sport
Kind of like ice hockey on grass
It's mental
There is another major difference between AQ and ISIL. AQ generally is aiming to take lawless areas and turn them into small nation states that can be merged later. So they tend to ally with various groups conducting insurgencies in an area. Various groups affiliated with AQ hold territory, such as JaN in Syria. With AQ having an eye to the future in terms of being the common force to unite these small emirates. ISIL has the goal of building their own nation state, with the long term goal of military conquest. This tends to lead AQ to a certain amount of plays well with others that ISIL doesn't have. But it also puts ISIL in a more vulnerable position. Land can more easily be taken away from ISIL and it reflects on them. If an AQ ally fails, it doesn't really set back AQ very much.
it being cooed is weird to me because it is physical as fuck
like, there are literally no cooed teams here the same way there's no cooed full contact rugby
oh yeah people were getting rekt at the tourney today it was rad as hell
@Blameless Cleric you do animes on demand?
Congratulations!!
this was actually my understanding of men's field hockey. The club dealie is just differently shaped.
Like, this thing on grass with guys batting around a little ball with sticks has been a fairly violent sport for... it's like aztec? originally, iirc.
I did not know that about AQ!
The ISIL stuff makes sense. The article I read talked a bit about some of the ways the religious nature of ISIL can be exploited - one of them is that it's basically forbidden for them to make actual treaties or set borders
Are you other countries playing it wrong?
Probably, I bet.
it is actually kind of impressive how consistently awful it is
ehhh
lacrosse has nets on the end of their sticks. Hurling just has a slightly flatter bit of stick.
Yeah, so here is the thing. I wouldn't count on either of those things. I'll point out that hard core Christian fundies ignore the very simple "Thou shall not kill" all of the time. And from a practical perspective, they engage in informal exchanges with other groups. The one that comes to mind is that they sell oil to the SAA constantly, and exchange other services.
the reason I ended up moving to Galway was that there were no rooms in Dublin for the weekend because of a Galway v Dublin hurling match.
I had no idea wtf they were talking about but I did know that half of Galway had moved east so it was easy to get lodging there.
Ahh, ok
That's a reasonable enough distinction
It is sounding more like field hockey now :P
Field hockey is at least notionally non-contact, plus you can't play the ball in the air as in hurling/shinty, or handle the ball as in hurling.
the ball is up in the air tho