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[Xenoblade Chronicles] Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition coming to Switch in 2020

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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    I'm struggling a bit with resolving visions. Say I want to go give a warning to a teammate because they have a sleep ability or something, I have to physically run over there, but I'm getting really slowed down by my auto-attacks. I'm not sure if it's only been a problem on big bosses like Xord when my attacks bounce off them(that at least seems to make it worse), but it means it can take all ~8 seconds of my vision timer to get over there as my running keeps getting paused by attacks. Can I stop auto-attacking? Is something like shield really entirely useless other than for talent attacks?

    PSN: Kurahoshi1
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    klemming wrote: »
    I'd also like an explanation for how the lake over the forest worked. Was there glass there or something?

    This particular bit, oddly enough I'm ok with.

    vd73Kaz.png

    I would not have minded getting lip service as to how, some line of dialogue, but I have less issue with that than other bits.

    Actually that reminds me of the scene right after they get up there, and
    they ask Melia how the high entia city floats, and she says "lol I don't know."

    Side note while I googled for the picture above, the results also had this which is completely appropriate:
    VFn2T7O.png

    UncleSporky on
    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Now that I'm older and know what the hell I'm doing I tore Colony 9's quests up before continuing on. I will not let this game kick my ass again. The map lighting up the enemies and items I need is such a relief.

    Cantido on
    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Septus wrote: »
    I'm struggling a bit with resolving visions. Say I want to go give a warning to a teammate because they have a sleep ability or something, I have to physically run over there, but I'm getting really slowed down by my auto-attacks. I'm not sure if it's only been a problem on big bosses like Xord when my attacks bounce off them(that at least seems to make it worse), but it means it can take all ~8 seconds of my vision timer to get over there as my running keeps getting paused by attacks. Can I stop auto-attacking? Is something like shield really entirely useless other than for talent attacks?

    Attacks bouncing off is only a problem for Xord and I think maybe some other face mechon, but not enough to worry about. Otherwise autoattacking shouldn't slow you down, but if it does you can just back away for a second so you're out of range.
    And yes, Shield is pretty much useless except for talent attacks. But that's a pretty big except. I always kept it levelled up as much as possible.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    TcheldorTcheldor Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    I'm struggling a bit with resolving visions. Say I want to go give a warning to a teammate because they have a sleep ability or something, I have to physically run over there, but I'm getting really slowed down by my auto-attacks. I'm not sure if it's only been a problem on big bosses like Xord when my attacks bounce off them(that at least seems to make it worse), but it means it can take all ~8 seconds of my vision timer to get over there as my running keeps getting paused by attacks. Can I stop auto-attacking? Is something like shield really entirely useless other than for talent attacks?

    Attacks bouncing off is only a problem for Xord and I think maybe some other face mechon, but not enough to worry about. Otherwise autoattacking shouldn't slow you down, but if it does you can just back away for a second so you're out of range.
    And yes, Shield is pretty much useless except for talent attacks. But that's a pretty big except. I always kept it levelled up as much as possible.

    Shield is for talent. Speed for red. Ether defense or heal them or some damage reduction aura for purple.

    League of Legends: Sorakanmyworld
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    Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Note: all Talent Arts used by enemies have a Roman numeral to denote its power level. So if you the enemy use something like “Shin-Kicker IV”, that’s your cue to use Monado Shield to block it (if its Level is at least as high as the enemy attack’s level).

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Note: all Talent Arts used by enemies have a Roman numeral to denote its power level. So if you the enemy use something like “Shin-Kicker IV”, that’s your cue to use Monado Shield to block it (if its Level is at least as high as the enemy attack’s level).

    The name of the attack is also in white. Red names are physical, purple are ether.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    You can also use those avoid instant death Auras on Dunban and Reyn during Visions.

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    I wish they changed the Monado arts icons. Maybe they're easy to discern if you speak Japanese, but they literally all look the same to me, so I just have to memorize and remember what each one is.

    Generally speaking though, Shield if the vision is white, Speed/Armour for everything else. Though I can't remember if agility does anything against ether (purple) attacks, so possibly just Armour for those.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    IIRC Armour is for ether. Or just use a Heal to max out your HP.

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    I only know them by the position I put them in. Purge is three left from the center. Shield is one left. Armor is one right. etc.

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    IIRC Armour is for ether. Or just use a Heal to max out your HP.

    Armor works on physical and ether, but if it's physical speed is superior... unless it's AoE, since speed only hits one person. Of course, armor can't stop riders like topple, so...

    As for the icons, I mostly agree... the kanji don't work as well outside of Japan. An option to use more generic symbols would be good there (the Monado itself would of course still show the proper glyph). There is some neat meaning in the glyphs during cutscenes, but you can look that up after beating the game, since the kanji only show up in those specific scenes.

    Polaritie on
    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Something I always found to be neat was how the symbols are clearly Japanese, but nobody in the story has any clue what they mean, or that they are language.

    Enlong on
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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    At least the vision moments give you time to go over them, and flag the ones that will be effective.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    I've done nearly everything but not quite 100% everything I wanted to do, a lot of arts aren't quite maxed and I need to see a lot of heart-to-hearts still. But I'm thinking of just beating the game to see the ending and then doing Future Connected to unlock things in the regular game, so then I could go back and finish the rest if I want. But I may lose motivation by then, I don't know.

    The heart-to-heart system was very poorly thought out. I have no way to keep tabs on which heart-to-heart applies to which characters, so in late game when I suddenly get Sharla and Dunban to blue affinity I can't race back to a previous map to watch a specific scene. Even if I could, sometimes it's not even about affinity and the game says "you are not far enough into the game to watch this one because it refers to later game story events."

    IMO none of them should've required affinity. Block off ones that talk about later events until the appropriate time, but make them easier to view as I go. As it stands in both the original release on Wii and in this one, I just mentally wrote them off until endgame when I would be able to do a circuit to watch them all.

    UncleSporky on
    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Polaritie wrote: »
    IIRC Armour is for ether. Or just use a Heal to max out your HP.

    Armor works on physical and ether, but if it's physical speed is superior... unless it's AoE, since speed only hits one person. Of course, armor can't stop riders like topple, so...

    As for the icons, I mostly agree... the kanji don't work as well outside of Japan. An option to use more generic symbols would be good there (the Monado itself would of course still show the proper glyph). There is some neat meaning in the glyphs during cutscenes, but you can look that up after beating the game, since the kanji only show up in those specific scenes.

    If you're trying to smash a vision Armor will still do it for almost all types of attacks, but it own't straight up negate the damage like shield or evade. EDIT: to be clear, Armor won't remove the vision like using the "correct" ability will, but it'll still give you the "smash". So if someone was trying for the achievements for changing the future or smashing, using Armor won't count toward "changing the future", you have to use the proper ability for that.

    Outside of that, though, Armor is generally far and away the best use of Shulks talent gauge, particularly if you level it. At level X it's like 75% damage reduction and with any number of skill links you can have your gauge full virtually always, meaning all damage is just straight up only 25% of what it would normally be. So if you're fighting things that you're not either overleveled for, or playing casual mode, you can and should keep Armor up as close to 100% as possible. If it's underleveled, it isn't as useful, but IMO it should be prioritized as soon as you get it.

    Speaking of casual mode, I know the notion of it is off putting to a lot of players, particularly who played the original; I just want to put in a plug for it when you're simply grinding end-game. There's nothing inherently more beneficial to spending more time doing the exact same thing, on enemies you can defeat easily enough to farm to begin with. It doesn't reduce any rewards, there is no penalty (other than ego) for using it. By all means, keep it off for everything you're doing first time, first kills for uniques, etc. But when you're killing Avalanche Abaasy for the dozenth time, you're only really punishing yourself by making it take longer.

    Or, you know, just use it all the time if you'd like. I'm sure someone has determined the exact calculations, but it jacks up your damage a lot, and seems to treat you as a much higher level than you are for calculations for whether enemies can hit you.

    I didn't use it at all until (late game-ish area spoiler)
    I was trying to kill the stupid level 70 unique in Central Factory; and then later felt like a dope because I realized that you come back through Central Factory on your way to the Core, and you'd be higher level and could take it on then "properly". I actually forgot you returned at all and thought I needed to clear out all uniques then. After it happened, I recalled that I made the exact same mistake in the original, but there was no casual mode; so I just straight up farmed XP for awhile. :rotate:

    Then just used it for farming all the gems and AP in the end.

    Because of the way it alters enemies abilities to hit you, if you're doing the Stormy Belagon affinity farm method, don't have casual mode on. It makes it take substantially longer, as you don't get sleep on your teammates as often, and it dies too fast even if you remove all arts and put on weak weapons (also, keep one of the adds alive that you can target while the other guys focus on Stormy, so you're not actively killing it; and you can keep the character you're controlling a higher level for survival purposes). EDIT: also in reference to the future smashing achievements, don't try to do it with casual mode; you almost never get visions.

    The Dude With Herpes on
    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Late game/endgame ish spoilers:
    In several cutscenes and heart-to-hearts Fiora has been like "oh woe is me, I look so weird like this, I look like a freak :( "

    Listen girl. In a lot of your outfits you look more normal than Sharla and Melia half the time. In plenty of them you look like a completely normal person in a futuristic skimpy suit that will have all the Colony 9 guys "accepting" you just fine.

    And you can change your headgear equipment which probably means you can remove it entirely and look like you have a normal head. Then just put on a baggy t-shirt and pants and no one would think any differently about you.

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    Road BlockRoad Block Registered User regular
    Under the collectables Heart to Heart menu you can filter to unseen Heart to Hearts and have it show only heart to hearts you can but haven't done. Still need to track it down in the zone but it helps.

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    Late game/endgame ish spoilers:
    In several cutscenes and heart-to-hearts Fiora has been like "oh woe is me, I look so weird like this, I look like a freak :( "

    Listen girl. In a lot of your outfits you look more normal than Sharla and Melia half the time. In plenty of them you look like a completely normal person in a futuristic skimpy suit that will have all the Colony 9 guys "accepting" you just fine.

    And you can change your headgear equipment which probably means you can remove it entirely and look like you have a normal head. Then just put on a baggy t-shirt and pants and no one would think any differently about you.

    On that topic (ending spoilers)
    I don't think I noticed with the original, but it kept bugging me this playthrough, that they spend an awful lot of time pointing out both how hard it will be to re-integrate back into society now that she's a machina (mostly), whether people will accept her, how she looks, etc. Even spending a decent amount of time focusing on not knowing how long she can even function without Meyneth, getting weaker etc.

    Then...none of that matters. At all. She's just back to human form and everything is fine.

    I get that either that could have been "fixed" when the world was remade, or yeah, there is a point that Linada says they could rebuild her human parts when they had more time, so they made room for it. It just felt like for the time they spent pointing it out, having it resolved without any issue, felt weak. It didn't feel earned, and (entirely my opinion) it doesn't seem like the sort of thing Shulk would have done intentionally when the world was remade, because 1) his whole journey was about finding your own way and accepting the consequences and 2) they didn't just throw a nod in there as "here, I fixed this as a reward" from Alvis or anything, when it would have been easy to do and not hurt anything too much. But they didn't do that, and it was just resolved.

    I know they wanted a happy ending (except Melia, whoops! :lol: ) and having that still be unresolved at the end would have brought it down; but I wish they had at least mentioned, at some point in the end-game or end-sequences, how it was resolved, so it didn't feel like that specific subplot was undermined.

    I dunno, I feel like I'm nitpicking a bit.

    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Road Block wrote: »
    Under the collectables Heart to Heart menu you can filter to unseen Heart to Hearts and have it show only heart to hearts you can but haven't done. Still need to track it down in the zone but it helps.

    Annoyingly, it only tracks H2H's you've actually gone up to and "used". They do show up on the map, but if you never actually walked up to them because you (probably rightfully) assumed you didn't have the character/affinity for it, it doesn't actually show up in the menu.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Late game/endgame ish spoilers:
    In several cutscenes and heart-to-hearts Fiora has been like "oh woe is me, I look so weird like this, I look like a freak :( "

    Listen girl. In a lot of your outfits you look more normal than Sharla and Melia half the time. In plenty of them you look like a completely normal person in a futuristic skimpy suit that will have all the Colony 9 guys "accepting" you just fine.

    And you can change your headgear equipment which probably means you can remove it entirely and look like you have a normal head. Then just put on a baggy t-shirt and pants and no one would think any differently about you.

    On that topic (ending spoilers)
    I don't think I noticed with the original, but it kept bugging me this playthrough, that they spend an awful lot of time pointing out both how hard it will be to re-integrate back into society now that she's a machina (mostly), whether people will accept her, how she looks, etc. Even spending a decent amount of time focusing on not knowing how long she can even function without Meyneth, getting weaker etc.

    Then...none of that matters. At all. She's just back to human form and everything is fine.

    I get that either that could have been "fixed" when the world was remade, or yeah, there is a point that Linada says they could rebuild her human parts when they had more time, so they made room for it. It just felt like for the time they spent pointing it out, having it resolved without any issue, felt weak. It didn't feel earned, and (entirely my opinion) it doesn't seem like the sort of thing Shulk would have done intentionally when the world was remade, because 1) his whole journey was about finding your own way and accepting the consequences and 2) they didn't just throw a nod in there as "here, I fixed this as a reward" from Alvis or anything, when it would have been easy to do and not hurt anything too much. But they didn't do that, and it was just resolved.

    I know they wanted a happy ending (except Melia, whoops! :lol: ) and having that still be unresolved at the end would have brought it down; but I wish they had at least mentioned, at some point in the end-game or end-sequences, how it was resolved, so it didn't feel like that specific subplot was undermined.

    I dunno, I feel like I'm nitpicking a bit.

    Well, not being sure about how much you've seen of Xenoblade 2 but, ending spoilers for that game:
    an unearned sudden happy ending regarding the love interest(s) is a pattern with them!

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    Road Block wrote: »
    Under the collectables Heart to Heart menu you can filter to unseen Heart to Hearts and have it show only heart to hearts you can but haven't done. Still need to track it down in the zone but it helps.

    Annoyingly, it only tracks H2H's you've actually gone up to and "used". They do show up on the map, but if you never actually walked up to them because you (probably rightfully) assumed you didn't have the character/affinity for it, it doesn't actually show up in the menu.

    I'm quoting this to reinforce it, because I sure was confused at one point! When you're playing through and and see the icon just go interact with it, even if you can't yet use it. There are only a couple that are out of the way, but they're in "secret" areas you want to get anyway because they give loads of xp/ap/sp.

    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Late game/endgame ish spoilers:
    In several cutscenes and heart-to-hearts Fiora has been like "oh woe is me, I look so weird like this, I look like a freak :( "

    Listen girl. In a lot of your outfits you look more normal than Sharla and Melia half the time. In plenty of them you look like a completely normal person in a futuristic skimpy suit that will have all the Colony 9 guys "accepting" you just fine.

    And you can change your headgear equipment which probably means you can remove it entirely and look like you have a normal head. Then just put on a baggy t-shirt and pants and no one would think any differently about you.

    On that topic (ending spoilers)
    I don't think I noticed with the original, but it kept bugging me this playthrough, that they spend an awful lot of time pointing out both how hard it will be to re-integrate back into society now that she's a machina (mostly), whether people will accept her, how she looks, etc. Even spending a decent amount of time focusing on not knowing how long she can even function without Meyneth, getting weaker etc.

    Then...none of that matters. At all. She's just back to human form and everything is fine.

    I get that either that could have been "fixed" when the world was remade, or yeah, there is a point that Linada says they could rebuild her human parts when they had more time, so they made room for it. It just felt like for the time they spent pointing it out, having it resolved without any issue, felt weak. It didn't feel earned, and (entirely my opinion) it doesn't seem like the sort of thing Shulk would have done intentionally when the world was remade, because 1) his whole journey was about finding your own way and accepting the consequences and 2) they didn't just throw a nod in there as "here, I fixed this as a reward" from Alvis or anything, when it would have been easy to do and not hurt anything too much. But they didn't do that, and it was just resolved.

    I know they wanted a happy ending (except Melia, whoops! :lol: ) and having that still be unresolved at the end would have brought it down; but I wish they had at least mentioned, at some point in the end-game or end-sequences, how it was resolved, so it didn't feel like that specific subplot was undermined.

    I dunno, I feel like I'm nitpicking a bit.

    It's even worse when
    apparently they did explain in a side story outside the game that it took 6 months for Fiora to get her old body back.

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    FF9 and XC spoilers just in case
    Also, my heart couldn't handle another Vivi scenario.

    lionheart_m on
    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Late game/endgame ish spoilers:
    In several cutscenes and heart-to-hearts Fiora has been like "oh woe is me, I look so weird like this, I look like a freak :( "

    Listen girl. In a lot of your outfits you look more normal than Sharla and Melia half the time. In plenty of them you look like a completely normal person in a futuristic skimpy suit that will have all the Colony 9 guys "accepting" you just fine.

    And you can change your headgear equipment which probably means you can remove it entirely and look like you have a normal head. Then just put on a baggy t-shirt and pants and no one would think any differently about you.

    On that topic (ending spoilers)
    I don't think I noticed with the original, but it kept bugging me this playthrough, that they spend an awful lot of time pointing out both how hard it will be to re-integrate back into society now that she's a machina (mostly), whether people will accept her, how she looks, etc. Even spending a decent amount of time focusing on not knowing how long she can even function without Meyneth, getting weaker etc.

    Then...none of that matters. At all. She's just back to human form and everything is fine.

    I get that either that could have been "fixed" when the world was remade, or yeah, there is a point that Linada says they could rebuild her human parts when they had more time, so they made room for it. It just felt like for the time they spent pointing it out, having it resolved without any issue, felt weak. It didn't feel earned, and (entirely my opinion) it doesn't seem like the sort of thing Shulk would have done intentionally when the world was remade, because 1) his whole journey was about finding your own way and accepting the consequences and 2) they didn't just throw a nod in there as "here, I fixed this as a reward" from Alvis or anything, when it would have been easy to do and not hurt anything too much. But they didn't do that, and it was just resolved.

    I know they wanted a happy ending (except Melia, whoops! :lol: ) and having that still be unresolved at the end would have brought it down; but I wish they had at least mentioned, at some point in the end-game or end-sequences, how it was resolved, so it didn't feel like that specific subplot was undermined.

    I dunno, I feel like I'm nitpicking a bit.
    They hint at it, there's some dialogue with the doctor going into it, and trying to track down some old tech and such. Short version: They find it offscreen and there's like a six month time gap between the final boss and the epilogue scene.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    Shenl742Shenl742 Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Apparently one of the databooks has a short story that takes place between the final boss battle and the game's epilogue. I haven't gotten around to reading it but aparrenntly it involves

    XB1 Ending spoilers
    Linada restoring Fiora's body using an ancient high entia regeneration chamber, which takes about half a year

    Shenl742 on
    FC: 1907-8030-1478
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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Late game/endgame ish spoilers:
    In several cutscenes and heart-to-hearts Fiora has been like "oh woe is me, I look so weird like this, I look like a freak :( "

    Listen girl. In a lot of your outfits you look more normal than Sharla and Melia half the time. In plenty of them you look like a completely normal person in a futuristic skimpy suit that will have all the Colony 9 guys "accepting" you just fine.

    And you can change your headgear equipment which probably means you can remove it entirely and look like you have a normal head. Then just put on a baggy t-shirt and pants and no one would think any differently about you.

    On that topic (ending spoilers)
    I don't think I noticed with the original, but it kept bugging me this playthrough, that they spend an awful lot of time pointing out both how hard it will be to re-integrate back into society now that she's a machina (mostly), whether people will accept her, how she looks, etc. Even spending a decent amount of time focusing on not knowing how long she can even function without Meyneth, getting weaker etc.

    Then...none of that matters. At all. She's just back to human form and everything is fine.

    I get that either that could have been "fixed" when the world was remade, or yeah, there is a point that Linada says they could rebuild her human parts when they had more time, so they made room for it. It just felt like for the time they spent pointing it out, having it resolved without any issue, felt weak. It didn't feel earned, and (entirely my opinion) it doesn't seem like the sort of thing Shulk would have done intentionally when the world was remade, because 1) his whole journey was about finding your own way and accepting the consequences and 2) they didn't just throw a nod in there as "here, I fixed this as a reward" from Alvis or anything, when it would have been easy to do and not hurt anything too much. But they didn't do that, and it was just resolved.

    I know they wanted a happy ending (except Melia, whoops! :lol: ) and having that still be unresolved at the end would have brought it down; but I wish they had at least mentioned, at some point in the end-game or end-sequences, how it was resolved, so it didn't feel like that specific subplot was undermined.

    I dunno, I feel like I'm nitpicking a bit.

    It's even worse when
    apparently they did explain in a side story outside the game that it took 6 months for Fiora to get her old body back.

    Was that in FC?
    I know they mentioned they could do it in the main game, but they just didn't have time. But I can't recall atm sidequests that have you getting things for it. I could just straight up be forgetting though. Playing that much game in such a (relatively) short amount of time, I'm sure I spaced a few things. And since it wasn't something that bugged me when I originally played, I wasn't looking out for it this time

    EDIT: And as I typed that, I am vaguely remembering something now, but not exactly what.

    EDIT: databooks?

    EDIT3: Oh, jeez, yeah, that translated "perfect" thing. I think I actually linked it here a few weeks ago. :rotate: I do remember now. The perfect works or ultimania or whatever they called it.

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Spoilers for this XC1 ending conversation:
    Do you think she did a Hermione Granger and fixed up some stuff she didn't like about her body while they were at it?

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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    While Axes are out, on the other hand, you can use shields as a weapon in XCX it seems.

    Sword and board is lame but just a shield by itself like Captain America? Thats cool.

    Now the question that will decide everything: can you toss the shield like a frisbee boomerang?

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Spoilers for this XC1 ending conversation:
    Do you think she did a Hermione Granger and fixed up some stuff she didn't like about her body while they were at it?

    I have no idea but I was more bummed out than I expected to be that
    none of her outfits, or the ones added, gave her a real kos-mos appearance.

    Also, what the hell is with her having variants in DE of every part except the body? There's a bunch of new arms/legs that don't match any bodies and it feels like it wasn't intentional

    EDIT: or I suppose they might have been there already, I just didn't use a lot of different gear for her generally, because you get access to the Z gear (for some reason, maybe the secret colony 6 store) pretty early and there's no reason to use anything else

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    maybe the secret colony 6 store

    Well I just learned something.

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    VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular


    SUPER disappointed that the Tetris sound isn't "I'm really feeling it!". :(

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Spoilers for this XC1 ending conversation:
    Do you think she did a Hermione Granger and fixed up some stuff she didn't like about her body while they were at it?

    Ending spoilers:
    No. Iirc they found some old high entia stuff to make a regeneration pod basically. More of a "push button, wake up months later with body restored" type of thing.

    I kind of think it would have been a better ending to have her still half-machine to a degree though. Of course, given the starting point... it really is kind of all or nothing to fix - based on some of what Vanea says about the faces I'm fairly sure Fiora's over 70% machine at that point. She doesn't swap out armor so much as entire body parts.

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    I beat Xenoblade Chronicles. Very spoilery thoughts on the ending:
    Shulk should've accepted godhood...if not for forever, then at least long enough to right some wrongs.

    First I realize that godhood as defined by Japanese RPGs is not the typical Western concept of an omnipotent/omniscient god. After all, we know they can die, and we know they apparently need to subsist on something, and they can be in danger of losing themselves. But in spite of this, they are shown to be powerful enough to accomplish some pretty significant things, like creating life in their own image. Shulk's creation of a "boundless world without need for gods" is presumably his first and only act as a god, but we know that much more than that ought to be possible. Homs and Nopon could be modified to enjoy the long lifespan of the High Entia, or all of them could have the lifespan of a Machina, or longer. Shulk could've had more direct control over the initial construction of the world, instead of just leaving everyone on what's left of the corpse of Bionis with no other land in sight. And...he could've fixed Fiora himself.

    Imagine you're Fiora, and your body is rapidly dying, and now you know that your best friend/love interest also knows this because Dickson revealed it to everyone...and then you watch as your friend turns down the powers of a god that could probably save you easily. Like someone getting 3 wishes and wishing for three different sports cars rather than to cure cancer.

    Godhood only elevates you above everyone else if you let it, and we know Shulk isn't the type to let it go to his head in that way. Meyneth walked and talked with her people. Shulk could've done all kinds of great stuff.

    This is like getting to the ending of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Charlie tells Willy Wonka that he doesn't want to run the factory, because he's just so gosh darn good of a person that he doesn't even want a reward. It's sort of unfulfilling. And godhood is kind of the ultimate reward. I picture Shulk 60 years later on his deathbed surrounded by grieving family, kicking himself for being a moron. Or swiftly gored to death by the first beast he meets in the new lands beyond the horizon.

    I also hate how uncreative and poorly-conceived his vision for the world turned out...or perhaps Alvis's vision, since Shulk seems to have given him a single directive that he interpreted, and computers aren't very creative. Basically nothing changed except far lands were created? Did everyone surfboard down the Bionis as it crumbled into the ocean? Colony 9 is kind of wrecked, they're working on "reconstruction" efforts. Presumably all my work on Colony 6 was for nothing. Couldn't Shulk have, like, made a new island and teleported everyone to it before Bionis fell? Couldn't he have made new lands a little closer so people know they're not sailing off to their deaths? I can think of so many things that could've gone wrong, or can still go wrong, since Shulk did absolutely nothing to ensure a good first start in this new world for everybody...they could run out of food in a few months, or experience a hurricane...good job, dude.

    On the subject of godhood on a broader level...

    I feel like the often repeated refrain in the game of a "world with no need for gods" is inherently flawed. This is the kind of statement that ought to be found in a game with a Catholic church analogue, a game where characters pray and might be granted holy power based on their faithfulness, where villages offer sacrifices and receive bountiful crops as a reward. A world where a god does something to take care of the people is a world where there's a need for gods. These are the games where the protagonists want to get the world out from under the ruling fist of heaven, they don't want people to need those gods, to be able to live their lives without begging a higher being for favors.

    In Xenoblade, the world already has no need for gods. In fact, Egil says this. I'm not sure if he means it in this same context but it's true. None of the Homs know the first thing about Zanza, they don't pray, they don't attribute anything to the gods. The High Entia know about Zanza but in spite of religious-style architecture they are not religious either; all their statues are of their ancestors! All races of Bionis are already completely secular, and the only thing ever done ritually is to return the dead to Bionis. That's all they know to do.

    Zanza gives nothing to the races of Bionis. Again, were this a different game, the god would go out dying while screeching "but I clothed you, fed you, listened to your prayers, and this is how I am repaid?!" No such thing with Zanza. His only positive contribution seems to be functioning as a landmass, one that absorbs the dead as food (the lives that...he himself created...cool conservation of energy bro).

    By contrast, Meyneth is sort of worshiped as a goddess on Mechonis, and seems to have had a bit more of a relationship with her people...but this is portrayed in game as a good thing. She's a good goddess who takes care of the Machina. The people of Mechonis, and therefore Shulk and crew based on what they learn, should not wish for a world that doesn't need gods. Because of the two worlds with gods, the one that "needed" theirs was way better off.

    Since Zanza does not give and only takes, and no one even knew about him much less gave him praise, the premise is exactly backwards. The world already doesn't need gods. What Shulk should have wished for was that gods would have no need of their creation. And then accept that revised godhood.

    Think about it: Zanza needed the Homs for food, and the Telethia to initiate the death and rebirth cycle. If the steward of the world doesn't need to eat the people, then there's no need to set an arbitrary lifespan for them. If god doesn't need to rebirth everything, the High Entia don't need to transform into Telethia. God can enjoy his creation and give them anything they need, and walk hand-in-hand with them.

    And I feel like rapidly simplifying everything down to one foolish statement the way Shulk did is in some ways a betrayal of his character as a thoughtful person, an analytical person who enjoys tinkering. He isn't the sort of person to say "lol whatever bro don't change anything I'm good."

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    NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    One of the key themes of the entire Xeno series is that people do not need gods. And that, indeed, creatures that are (for all intents and purposes) gods are either tyrants, will become such because power corrupts, or are dangerous simply because their power cannot be controlled entirely.

    You might not agree, or like it, but it's been a thing since Xenogears. It's like complaining that Mario really likes mushrooms and jumping into pipes.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    I beat Xenoblade Chronicles. Very spoilery thoughts on the ending:
    Shulk should've accepted godhood...if not for forever, then at least long enough to right some wrongs.

    First I realize that godhood as defined by Japanese RPGs is not the typical Western concept of an omnipotent/omniscient god. After all, we know they can die, and we know they apparently need to subsist on something, and they can be in danger of losing themselves. But in spite of this, they are shown to be powerful enough to accomplish some pretty significant things, like creating life in their own image. Shulk's creation of a "boundless world without need for gods" is presumably his first and only act as a god, but we know that much more than that ought to be possible. Homs and Nopon could be modified to enjoy the long lifespan of the High Entia, or all of them could have the lifespan of a Machina, or longer. Shulk could've had more direct control over the initial construction of the world, instead of just leaving everyone on what's left of the corpse of Bionis with no other land in sight. And...he could've fixed Fiora himself.

    Imagine you're Fiora, and your body is rapidly dying, and now you know that your best friend/love interest also knows this because Dickson revealed it to everyone...and then you watch as your friend turns down the powers of a god that could probably save you easily. Like someone getting 3 wishes and wishing for three different sports cars rather than to cure cancer.

    Godhood only elevates you above everyone else if you let it, and we know Shulk isn't the type to let it go to his head in that way. Meyneth walked and talked with her people. Shulk could've done all kinds of great stuff.

    This is like getting to the ending of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Charlie tells Willy Wonka that he doesn't want to run the factory, because he's just so gosh darn good of a person that he doesn't even want a reward. It's sort of unfulfilling. And godhood is kind of the ultimate reward. I picture Shulk 60 years later on his deathbed surrounded by grieving family, kicking himself for being a moron. Or swiftly gored to death by the first beast he meets in the new lands beyond the horizon.

    I also hate how uncreative and poorly-conceived his vision for the world turned out...or perhaps Alvis's vision, since Shulk seems to have given him a single directive that he interpreted, and computers aren't very creative. Basically nothing changed except far lands were created? Did everyone surfboard down the Bionis as it crumbled into the ocean? Colony 9 is kind of wrecked, they're working on "reconstruction" efforts. Presumably all my work on Colony 6 was for nothing. Couldn't Shulk have, like, made a new island and teleported everyone to it before Bionis fell? Couldn't he have made new lands a little closer so people know they're not sailing off to their deaths? I can think of so many things that could've gone wrong, or can still go wrong, since Shulk did absolutely nothing to ensure a good first start in this new world for everybody...they could run out of food in a few months, or experience a hurricane...good job, dude.

    On the subject of godhood on a broader level...

    I feel like the often repeated refrain in the game of a "world with no need for gods" is inherently flawed. This is the kind of statement that ought to be found in a game with a Catholic church analogue, a game where characters pray and might be granted holy power based on their faithfulness, where villages offer sacrifices and receive bountiful crops as a reward. A world where a god does something to take care of the people is a world where there's a need for gods. These are the games where the protagonists want to get the world out from under the ruling fist of heaven, they don't want people to need those gods, to be able to live their lives without begging a higher being for favors.

    In Xenoblade, the world already has no need for gods. In fact, Egil says this. I'm not sure if he means it in this same context but it's true. None of the Homs know the first thing about Zanza, they don't pray, they don't attribute anything to the gods. The High Entia know about Zanza but in spite of religious-style architecture they are not religious either; all their statues are of their ancestors! All races of Bionis are already completely secular, and the only thing ever done ritually is to return the dead to Bionis. That's all they know to do.

    Zanza gives nothing to the races of Bionis. Again, were this a different game, the god would go out dying while screeching "but I clothed you, fed you, listened to your prayers, and this is how I am repaid?!" No such thing with Zanza. His only positive contribution seems to be functioning as a landmass, one that absorbs the dead as food (the lives that...he himself created...cool conservation of energy bro).

    By contrast, Meyneth is sort of worshiped as a goddess on Mechonis, and seems to have had a bit more of a relationship with her people...but this is portrayed in game as a good thing. She's a good goddess who takes care of the Machina. The people of Mechonis, and therefore Shulk and crew based on what they learn, should not wish for a world that doesn't need gods. Because of the two worlds with gods, the one that "needed" theirs was way better off.

    Since Zanza does not give and only takes, and no one even knew about him much less gave him praise, the premise is exactly backwards. The world already doesn't need gods. What Shulk should have wished for was that gods would have no need of their creation. And then accept that revised godhood.

    Think about it: Zanza needed the Homs for food, and the Telethia to initiate the death and rebirth cycle. If the steward of the world doesn't need to eat the people, then there's no need to set an arbitrary lifespan for them. If god doesn't need to rebirth everything, the High Entia don't need to transform into Telethia. God can enjoy his creation and give them anything they need, and walk hand-in-hand with them.

    And I feel like rapidly simplifying everything down to one foolish statement the way Shulk did is in some ways a betrayal of his character as a thoughtful person, an analytical person who enjoys tinkering. He isn't the sort of person to say "lol whatever bro don't change anything I'm good."
    One thing to note - there's missing context with Fiora's situation there.

    Linalla (the Machina doctor) has worked out how to heal her before that, but Fiora put it off because it would have meant she couldn't fight. Basically that process gets done in the time gap before the epilogue scene. The game itself doesn't deliver that context and stops at her having a solution mostly worked out... its apparently only in the JP artbook of the original release or something. Very poorly delivered, there.

    I did have the same thoughts with that situation. I still kind of think that the ending sould have worked better if Fiora had ended up with some mechanical bits remaining.

    With regards to Shulk giving up the Monado... There's a running line in the tail end of the game about the uncertainty of the future being a good thing, and Shulk giving up the Monado means he doesn't end up with ever stronger prescience. And he's definitely not going to go off doing mass changes to the world that nobody asked for. The limit of it I think would have been Fiora, and that was already resolved so...

    But really I think its more the burden of prescience and power there. And Shulk just got done rejecting Zanza trying to be the sole arbiter of everyone's fate, he's not going to take that position himself. If he knows everything thats going to happen he bears responsibility for all the outcomes.

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    One of the key themes of the entire Xeno series is that people do not need gods. And that, indeed, creatures that are (for all intents and purposes) gods are either tyrants, will become such because power corrupts, or are dangerous simply because their power cannot be controlled entirely.

    You might not agree, or like it, but it's been a thing since Xenogears. It's like complaining that Mario really likes mushrooms and jumping into pipes.

    This is not analogous to complaining that Mario really likes mushrooms, any more than it is complaining that Riki really likes yum yum fish.

    I don't feel like any of my observations are off-base for what I observed in this game, and I also already refuted what you wrote there, which makes me think you didn't really read it. Again, spoilers:
    Meyneth isn't a tyrant, corrupt, or dangerous. She is shown as nothing but virtuous. Of the two gods we see, the one that interacts more with their people is shown to be a net positive overall, and there is no evidence that Shulk couldn't have done the same.

    Additionally, Shulk never demonstrated any worry that he would become corrupted by being a god. That's not a theme here at all. If these are the themes of the Xeno series, then they sure botched it in this particular game.

    And again...you want to explain why he wouldn't have at least asked Alvis to fix Fiora for him? Or had Alvis make all the races long-lived, if not immortal? Or put some land nearby? This is all just in the process of setting up what the new world will look like, not even actively being a god.

    Shulk is not the sort of person who would shrug and say "do whatever." "Keep the world about the same, it's fine." He's more thoughtful than that.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    So, just to continue from my last post regarding the ending.
    Welcome to the problem of theodicy. Sort of - the monado grants neither omnipotence nor omniscience in the traditional sense, and Shulk's prescience is not at the level Zanza reached, even if it had the potential to get there. I say it doesn't grant omnipotence in the traditional sense because it's pretty clear there's a wind-up to doing any big changes, it's not just snap your fingers and it's done. Fortunately, Zanza's already warmed up the ether so to speak... but also Shulk is making less direct changes there at the end (well, Alvis is, and Alvis has had a lot of time to figure this stuff out).

    But circling back to theodicy. If Shulk knows everything that's going to happen, anything bad he doesn't try to prevent is an active choice to allow it to happen. Plus, he's going to feel guilt even if he can't prevent it (see Prison Island events). So you end up with him spending all his time preventing anything really bad from ever happening, and... yeah. I don't feel like going down this rabbit hole too far.

    Also, it should probably be clear by that point that Shulk doesn't want to be in the position of shaping everyone's future, and he doesn't want anyone else there either. His primary goal is a world where everyone can influence their own fate. Any god, even him, is contrary to that by his reckoning.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    I don't agree with the assumptions that making all of the races immortal is a....good thing? That's a philosophical question and not something that you can say is an obvious thing someone should have been wanting or asked for -- there's nothing in the game that ever suggests Shulk, or any other "good" character in the game, thinks that immortality is some end goal. People being born forever and never ever dying could lead to some fairly obvious problems, and that desire is never reflected in any of the party members, ever. I'm not even sure why it's being brought up in the context of Xenoblade, because it's not a thing that's brought up by the "good guys" at all.

    And
    Polaritie addressed your concerns about Fiora. There was already a plan in place to make Fiora human again, and presumably he was fine with that. There's nothing jarring about him not asking Alvis for that -- he was fine with the plan that was in place.

    Fiatil on
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Polaritie wrote: »
    One thing to note - there's missing context with Fiora's situation there.

    Linalla (the Machina doctor) has worked out how to heal her before that, but Fiora put it off because it would have meant she couldn't fight. Basically that process gets done in the time gap before the epilogue scene. The game itself doesn't deliver that context and stops at her having a solution mostly worked out... its apparently only in the JP artbook of the original release or something. Very poorly delivered, there.

    I did have the same thoughts with that situation. I still kind of think that the ending sould have worked better if Fiora had ended up with some mechanical bits remaining.

    With regards to Shulk giving up the Monado... There's a running line in the tail end of the game about the uncertainty of the future being a good thing, and Shulk giving up the Monado means he doesn't end up with ever stronger prescience. And he's definitely not going to go off doing mass changes to the world that nobody asked for. The limit of it I think would have been Fiora, and that was already resolved so...

    But really I think its more the burden of prescience and power there. And Shulk just got done rejecting Zanza trying to be the sole arbiter of everyone's fate, he's not going to take that position himself. If he knows everything thats going to happen he bears responsibility for all the outcomes.
    re: the Fiora situation, I would say that's a retcon that makes other scenes make less sense. Because if Fiora knew she'd be fine, then when Dickson revealed it to everyone including Shulk, she would've said "don't worry, I'm going to be fine, we've already got a solution in place and he's just being an asshole."

    As delivered in the game, it's intended to make everyone worried that she doesn't have much time left, and wonder whether or not she'll die in the end. If people didn't have to worry, Fiora would've let them know not to worry, because that's part of her personality.

    As far as Shulk having prescience and therefore responsibility? We don't have all the details of what gods can do, but there's a good chance he'd be able to turn it off or suppress it. And/or lock the Monado away in his own crystal tower somewhere where he doesn't have to think about it most of the time.
    Polaritie wrote: »
    So, just to continue from my last post regarding the ending.
    Welcome to the problem of theodicy. Sort of - the monado grants neither omnipotence nor omniscience in the traditional sense, and Shulk's prescience is not at the level Zanza reached, even if it had the potential to get there. I say it doesn't grant omnipotence in the traditional sense because it's pretty clear there's a wind-up to doing any big changes, it's not just snap your fingers and it's done. Fortunately, Zanza's already warmed up the ether so to speak... but also Shulk is making less direct changes there at the end (well, Alvis is, and Alvis has had a lot of time to figure this stuff out).

    But circling back to theodicy. If Shulk knows everything that's going to happen, anything bad he doesn't try to prevent is an active choice to allow it to happen. Plus, he's going to feel guilt even if he can't prevent it (see Prison Island events). So you end up with him spending all his time preventing anything really bad from ever happening, and... yeah. I don't feel like going down this rabbit hole too far.

    Also, it should probably be clear by that point that Shulk doesn't want to be in the position of shaping everyone's future, and he doesn't want anyone else there either. His primary goal is a world where everyone can influence their own fate. Any god, even him, is contrary to that by his reckoning.
    Turning down godhood still makes him culpable for decisions he could've made with those powers but now cannot. Massive opportunity cost.

    When some old Colony 9 lady dies of an incurable disease a month after he turned down godhood and everyone gives him a meaningful look, what, he just says "yeah ain't that a bitch?"

    UncleSporky on
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