Do we have an account of the events that took place yet? Because I've heard that the shooter was engaged with two police officers who caused him to flee into the elementary school. Then the two officers "contained" him in a room full of children while they waited for SWAT to show up which took upwards of 20 minutes.
And we have the fucking gall to call these cowards heroes.
with rage at the fact that these fucking coward cops just fucking stood there instead of saving children
And these mother fuckers have the fucking goddamn gall to get pissed when we say anything bad about them or anything about how maybe they don't need these giant budgets and tanks
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
The timeline is extremely unclear at the moment and there are multiple contradictory accounts. I will say officials are now much more cagey about the opening engagement with the shooter and what happened. I think the optics at having a heavily armed group of officers outside doing nothing except policing distraught parents, while an active shooter is just left with a bunch of kids for 40 minutes is truly gruesome.
The reality of this shooting makes it truly one of the saddest I’ve ever seen in the 23 years since Columbine.
This thread has spent several pages since yesterday yelling at the police that they were cowards etc.
This is my perspective (with the disclaimer that I've never been a cop. This is purely from a security, military and fire&rescue viewpoint where I do have some experience):
1. The Uvalde SWAT team has 9 members. Which means it's not a quick response team (there is simply no way you can provide 24/7 quick response with that few people). They can do hazardous warrants, they can assemble relatively quickly but "relatively quickly" is not "within the hour". Quick response teams is something most police forces do not have.
2. Going into an environment like a school, against a shooter with bodyarmor and armed with an automatic rifle is not a good idea. Especially not with an uncoordinated group of people who are not really trained in this type of close quarters combat (and no, your average police officer is not trained for this. Not even in countries where police officers have 2+ years of training before they're even allowed on the street). The shooter works in an environment where everyone he meets is an enemy and where he tends to have a good grasp of the layout, while any team trying to take down a shooter works in an environment where there are bystanders, other members of their team and the knowledge of the building layout is somewhat sketchy. There is a reason why the first police response tends to be to contain and evacuate unless there is active gunfire. The no.1 rule of any kind of hazardous job is "Do what you're trained for. If you become another victim you're only adding to the problem".
3. There is body armor and there is body armor. AFAIK only SWAT teams (and their equivalents) have the kind of body armor that can stop a bullet from an AR15, while everyone else is wearing body armor that's meant to stop bullets from handguns (and does basically nothing against against a rifle).
4. The Border Patrol tactical team was probably the first tactical team (ie, cohesive group of people actually trained to do this) that arrived on the scene.
Overall. There are basically two ways you can stop school shootings (or more accurately, reduce the number school shootings and the casualties). You can either a. Reduce the number of schools and have a 4 to 8 man paramilitary team in every school every day (the way afghanistan used to run girls schools before the taliban took over). b. Put much stricter controls on guns in general and automatics in particular on a national basis.
Pick one or the other, because pretty much everything else is equivalent to thoughts&prayers.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
This thread has spent several pages since yesterday yelling at the police that they were cowards etc.
This is my perspective (with the disclaimer that I've never been a cop. This is purely from a security, military and fire&rescue viewpoint where I do have some experience):
1. The Uvalde SWAT team has 9 members. Which means it's not a quick response team (there is simply no way you can provide 24/7 quick response with that few people). They can do hazardous warrants, they can assemble relatively quickly but "relatively quickly" is not "within the hour". Quick response teams is something most police forces do not have.
2. Going into an environment like a school, against a shooter with bodyarmor and armed with an automatic rifle is not a good idea. Especially not with an uncoordinated group of people who are not really trained in this type of close quarters combat (and no, your average police officer is not trained for this. Not even in countries where police officers have 2+ years of training before they're even allowed on the street). The shooter works in an environment where everyone he meets is an enemy and where he tends to have a good grasp of the layout, while any team trying to take down a shooter works in an environment where there are bystanders, other members of their team and the knowledge of the building layout is somewhat sketchy. There is a reason why the first police response tends to be to contain and evacuate unless there is active gunfire. The no.1 rule of any kind of hazardous job is "Do what you're trained for. If you become another victim you're only adding to the problem".
3. There is body armor and there is body armor. AFAIK only SWAT teams (and their equivalents) have the kind of body armor that can stop a bullet from an AR15, while everyone else is wearing body armor that's meant to stop bullets from handguns (and does basically nothing against against a rifle).
4. The Border Patrol tactical team was probably the first tactical team (ie, cohesive group of people actually trained to do this) that arrived on the scene.
Overall. There are basically two ways you can stop school shootings (or more accurately, reduce the number school shootings and the casualties). You can either a. Reduce the number of schools and have a 4 to 8 man paramilitary team in every school every day (the way afghanistan used to run girls schools before the taliban took over). b. Put much stricter controls on guns in general and automatics in particular on a national basis.
Pick one or the other, because pretty much everything else is equivalent to thoughts&prayers.
No the cops are cowards. This is their fucking jobs. This is why they tell us they need $TEXAS budgets constantly. This is why we're not allowed to hold them accountable. This is why we have to be nice to them always forever. This is why we have to BACK THE BLUE.
Meanwhile $76k a year on emergency services, unchanged since the start of the chart. I assume that would be healthcare expenditure since police and fire are already listed. Just insane.
+9
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited May 2022
You make a few very good points @Fiendishrabbit but in the end, if you’re spending 40% of your total budget on Police and they spend 40 minutes outside bullying terrified parents instead of engaging an active shooter, fuck their feelings.
They’re cowards and have earned the label. There were parents who were unarmed more willing to go in there to try to potentially save their children.
And there is video of how many officers were there and what they were armed with. You can look at them and make up your own mind.
Why the fuck does a town of 13,000 even need a goddamn SWAT team
Small towns everywhere in the US seem to blow crazy money on police officers. I grew up in a town with 1800 people in the midwest. We had 3 cops on full time payroll for just that small town, plus local sheriff's deputies. At one point the city bought them all brand new SUV cruisers because they were having trouble towing people out of snow banks. They had a drug dog! that was regularly used to search the high school lockers. They were so bored that mostly all they did was harass high school kids, and any person unfortunate enough to have to drive on the highway through town at night. I can't even imagine how badly those untrained, undisciplined, alcoholic jackasses would have botched a school shooting response.
Actually now that I think about it, even big metropolises typically spend a massive part of their budget on the ever growing police state.
No, we have known since Columbine that the doctrinal response to a mass shooting situation is that all armed law enforcement in the area should immediately be called, and immediately enter and attempt to engage the shooter as soon as they arrive on the scene. Not render aid to the wounded, not assemble and plan, assault and engage the shooter immediately.
Anything else results in the shooter continuing to kill, and more often than not when the police do engage the shooter it will either make them stop murdering innocent kids / people while they fight / flee / hunker down in response police, or at the first real resistance the shooter will commit suicide.
Yes of course it's scary and dangerous and not something any officer ever wants to face. If you're not willing to do that to save kids turn in your badge and gun and find another career.
+50
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Also again, unless something changed, one of the innumerable excuses for Columbine was that police did not have power/doctrine to go straight in. This was changed and they were meant to be able to go engage active shooters immediately.
Police are happy to take on unarmed minorities but one shithead teen with a rifle and suddenly they need a coherent tactical team? What the fuck are they even trained for? They seemed to have no problem turning their backs on the school to demand terrified parents stay back or arrest them.
No, we have known since Columbine that the doctrinal response to a mass shooting situation is that all armed law enforcement in the area should immediately be called, and immediately enter and attempt to engage the shooter as soon as they arrive on the scene. Not render aid to the wounded, not assemble and plan, assault and engage the shooter immediately.
Anything else results in the shooter continuing to kill, and more often than not when the police do engage the shooter it will either make them stop murdering innocent kids / people while they fight / flee / hunker down in response police, or at the first real resistance the shooter will commit suicide.
Yes of course it's scary and dangerous and not something any officer ever wants to face. If you're not willing to do that to save kids turn in your badge and gun and find another career.
I mean..someone already posted in this thread the story of the officer who posted up outside the school in Florida where a shooting took place(instead of entering and engaging), and now the state is charging him with (basically) child neglect for not rendering aid, which comes with prison time. So the state of Florida is sure saying there is a responsibility to go in and engage. And Abbott will do the same in TX if he thinks he can make scapegoats out of the cops in Uvalde.
I wasn't going to come and comment on this, but the police actions are now so bad, I'm Seriously doubting their credentials.
I'm not trying to be pro cop propaganda, But they're usually consistent in their Gospels.
This much deviation makes me wonder where they were trained or if they faked it. Which really isn't that impossible now that I think about it considering the amount of chroniasm that exists and modern law enforcement
HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
The way we just skip past republicans expressing sorrow and going right to the playbook isn’t unexpected but it is grim
It is always: Any evidence the policy (unrestricted gun rights) has fatal unstoppable consequences (regular mass shootings) is evidence that the solution is more of the policy (more guns for everyone who doesn’t have one yet)
Clearly the issue would be solved if the schoolchildren each had a handgun
4 million dollars a year and a SWAT team to police a poor Hispanic community and they couldn't even stop a disturbed 18 year old kid with an AR.
Good guy with a gun has always been a bullshit philosophy, but this shooting really proves how hollow that right wing talking point is.
Maybe that 4 million should have gone into community enrichment and mental health programs. School counseling at the kid's high school. Things that may have actually prevented this from happening, because the police and SWAT budget fucking failed.
+21
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
4 million dollars a year and a SWAT team to police a poor Hispanic community and they couldn't even stop a disturbed 18 year old kid with an AR.
Good guy with a gun has always been a bullshit philosophy, but this shooting really proves how hollow that right wing talking point is.
Maybe that 4 million should have gone into community enrichment and mental health programs. School counseling at the kid's high school. Things that may have actually prevented this from happening, because the police and SWAT budget fucking failed.
Proving a right wing talking point hollow has been something we've fallen over each other to do for 20+ years and it's never done anything.
Do we have an account of the events that took place yet? Because I've heard that the shooter was engaged with two police officers who caused him to flee into the elementary school. Then the two officers "contained" him in a room full of children while they waited for SWAT to show up which took upwards of 20 minutes.
And we have the fucking gall to call these cowards heroes.
and then in the same breath imply it should be fucking the teachers getting in gun fights
+29
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
This thread has spent several pages since yesterday yelling at the police that they were cowards etc.
This is my perspective (with the disclaimer that I've never been a cop. This is purely from a security, military and fire&rescue viewpoint where I do have some experience):
1. The Uvalde SWAT team has 9 members. Which means it's not a quick response team (there is simply no way you can provide 24/7 quick response with that few people). They can do hazardous warrants, they can assemble relatively quickly but "relatively quickly" is not "within the hour". Quick response teams is something most police forces do not have.
2. Going into an environment like a school, against a shooter with bodyarmor and armed with an automatic rifle is not a good idea. Especially not with an uncoordinated group of people who are not really trained in this type of close quarters combat (and no, your average police officer is not trained for this. Not even in countries where police officers have 2+ years of training before they're even allowed on the street). The shooter works in an environment where everyone he meets is an enemy and where he tends to have a good grasp of the layout, while any team trying to take down a shooter works in an environment where there are bystanders, other members of their team and the knowledge of the building layout is somewhat sketchy. There is a reason why the first police response tends to be to contain and evacuate unless there is active gunfire. The no.1 rule of any kind of hazardous job is "Do what you're trained for. If you become another victim you're only adding to the problem".
3. There is body armor and there is body armor. AFAIK only SWAT teams (and their equivalents) have the kind of body armor that can stop a bullet from an AR15, while everyone else is wearing body armor that's meant to stop bullets from handguns (and does basically nothing against against a rifle).
4. The Border Patrol tactical team was probably the first tactical team (ie, cohesive group of people actually trained to do this) that arrived on the scene.
Overall. There are basically two ways you can stop school shootings (or more accurately, reduce the number school shootings and the casualties). You can either a. Reduce the number of schools and have a 4 to 8 man paramilitary team in every school every day (the way afghanistan used to run girls schools before the taliban took over). b. Put much stricter controls on guns in general and automatics in particular on a national basis.
Pick one or the other, because pretty much everything else is equivalent to thoughts&prayers.
If that's all true, and let's say it is
Why do we bother arming them with AR-15's and full body armor? Why were they fully able to get their own kids out when they apparently are powerless to stop anyone but *checks notes* the terrified parents outside, of who they detained at least one. True heroes.
Everyone says this is what police are for, but it's clear they aren't. So people are pissed off that this kind of rhetoric used by cops and cop supporters, i.e. "if you defund the police who will you call when the shooting starts", and is justification for them being in near full battle rattle.
This thread has spent several pages since yesterday yelling at the police that they were cowards etc.
This is my perspective (with the disclaimer that I've never been a cop. This is purely from a security, military and fire&rescue viewpoint where I do have some experience):
1. The Uvalde SWAT team has 9 members. Which means it's not a quick response team (there is simply no way you can provide 24/7 quick response with that few people). They can do hazardous warrants, they can assemble relatively quickly but "relatively quickly" is not "within the hour". Quick response teams is something most police forces do not have.
2. Going into an environment like a school, against a shooter with bodyarmor and armed with an automatic rifle is not a good idea. Especially not with an uncoordinated group of people who are not really trained in this type of close quarters combat (and no, your average police officer is not trained for this. Not even in countries where police officers have 2+ years of training before they're even allowed on the street). The shooter works in an environment where everyone he meets is an enemy and where he tends to have a good grasp of the layout, while any team trying to take down a shooter works in an environment where there are bystanders, other members of their team and the knowledge of the building layout is somewhat sketchy. There is a reason why the first police response tends to be to contain and evacuate unless there is active gunfire. The no.1 rule of any kind of hazardous job is "Do what you're trained for. If you become another victim you're only adding to the problem".
3. There is body armor and there is body armor. AFAIK only SWAT teams (and their equivalents) have the kind of body armor that can stop a bullet from an AR15, while everyone else is wearing body armor that's meant to stop bullets from handguns (and does basically nothing against against a rifle).
4. The Border Patrol tactical team was probably the first tactical team (ie, cohesive group of people actually trained to do this) that arrived on the scene.
Overall. There are basically two ways you can stop school shootings (or more accurately, reduce the number school shootings and the casualties). You can either a. Reduce the number of schools and have a 4 to 8 man paramilitary team in every school every day (the way afghanistan used to run girls schools before the taliban took over). b. Put much stricter controls on guns in general and automatics in particular on a national basis.
Pick one or the other, because pretty much everything else is equivalent to thoughts&prayers.
If that's all true, and let's say it is
Why do we bother arming them with AR-15's and full body armor? Why were they fully able to get their own kids out when they apparently are powerless to stop anyone but *checks notes* the terrified parents outside, of who they detained at least one. True heroes.
Everyone says this is what police are for, but it's clear they aren't. So people are pissed off that this kind of rhetoric used by cops and cop supporters, i.e. "if you defund the police who will you call when the shooting starts", and is justification for them being in near full battle rattle.
It's almost like civilians having military level hardware is a dumb idea.
Meanwhile $76k a year on emergency services, unchanged since the start of the chart. I assume that would be healthcare expenditure since police and fire are already listed. Just insane.
It's almost certainly the personnel cost of one person that's doing grant and reimbursement coordination with the Texas department of emergency management
Just for reference. I'm not a cop, I'm a 911 dispatcher for a high crime area. So I'm generally not 100% on statutes or fine details, but I do unfortunately know this stuff and have had the training.
That’s what “barricaded” means to them. He locked the door.
And apparently all the lawmen in Texas can’t operate a key by themselves, so a staffer had to do it eventually.
All the pro-cop fascists keep saying "if you defund the police who's gonna help in these situations?" and my response is, well the police aren't helping these situations right now
my dad was a small town cop for 35 years. Most of his job was dealing with drunk tourists, unfortunate levels of domestic violence, teaching kids about drugs, watching paint and/or concrete dry, or directing traffic. I know the exact school he did his active shooter training in. Which they did in the 90s before columbine even fuckin happened. They used the school because it produced the exact spaces they needed in order to train multiple scenarios over the course of multiple days for active shooters in buildings. Every cop in my state had to do that training.
Genuine question from a policing procedure perspective. What constitutes the difference between an active shooter situation and a hostage situation?
I can see the intended response for each situation requiring pretty different approaches.
It's a fine line and definitely has blurred a lot the past decade or so.
An active shooter situation could stabilize and evolve into a hostage situation (or hostage devolve to active shooter situation) but generally in a hostage situation negotiation and surrender without (further) bloodshed is a possibility or likelihood.
Typical mass / spree shooters are distinctively not hostage takers (when there is active shooting clarifying edit - in a hostage situation - it tends to be incidental / accidental, like an armed guard) and their goal is explicitly to kill as many people as possible, so negotiations just give them more opportunity to achieve their goals.
A hostage taker may be willing to kill to achieve their goal, but its not their goal.
That’s what “barricaded” means to them. He locked the door.
And apparently all the lawmen in Texas can’t operate a key by themselves, so a staffer had to do it eventually.
All the pro-cop fascists keep saying "if you defund the police who's gonna help in these situations?" and my response is, well the police aren't helping these situations right now
I cannot believe it took them a full hour to do all of that.
That video was one of the most sad things I have ever seen. I think every Republican and NRA member should be forced to watch it. Seriously, what on earth are they doing at this point? Did they seriously just set a perimeter and then just stand there until they built up overwhelming force to go in? So essentially despite them being nearby and doctrine being to go right in and engage immediately, they did not??!?!
So much for the "Good guy with a gun" myth for good. More like the "Professionally trained and armed officers cower from a single armed 18 year old kid with a rifle".
It just demonstrates that the only solution is less guns.
Like, I give these cops zero credit but I also get it. I wouldn't wanna face off against someone with a fucking AR-15 or similar either. That's very much "Yeah, no thanks" territory. But that's why you have to prevent them from every being able to get one in the first place. So nobody has to deal with this shit.
That video was one of the most sad things I have ever seen. I think every Republican and NRA member should be forced to watch it. Seriously, what on earth are they doing at this point? Did they seriously just set a perimeter and then just stand there until they built up overwhelming force to go in? So essentially despite them being nearby and doctrine being to go right in and engage immediately, they did not??!?!
So much for the "Good guy with a gun" myth for good. More like the "Professionally trained and armed officers cower from a single armed 18 year old kid with a rifle".
It just demonstrates that the only solution is less guns.
Like, I give these cops zero credit but I also get it. I wouldn't wanna face off against someone with a fucking AR-15 or similar either. That's very much "Yeah, no thanks" territory. But that's why you have to prevent them from every being able to get one in the first place. So nobody has to deal with this shit.
I GET it, but no sympathy from me here.
If you don't want to face off against some nut with an AR-15, turn in your badge and find a different career.
Go into something safe like teaching or retail...oh...hm...yeah. 'Murica.
That video was one of the most sad things I have ever seen. I think every Republican and NRA member should be forced to watch it. Seriously, what on earth are they doing at this point? Did they seriously just set a perimeter and then just stand there until they built up overwhelming force to go in? So essentially despite them being nearby and doctrine being to go right in and engage immediately, they did not??!?!
So much for the "Good guy with a gun" myth for good. More like the "Professionally trained and armed officers cower from a single armed 18 year old kid with a rifle".
It just demonstrates that the only solution is less guns.
Like, I give these cops zero credit but I also get it. I wouldn't wanna face off against someone with a fucking AR-15 or similar either. That's very much "Yeah, no thanks" territory. But that's why you have to prevent them from every being able to get one in the first place. So nobody has to deal with this shit.
By the same token, this is the fucking job they signed up for. If you don’t want to deal with American gun violence go get a goddamn desk job somewhere. What this demonstrates is that these gibbering asshole elementals want all the power and respect that comes with being a police officer with none of the responsibility, danger, or self-sacrifice that is the entire reason they are afforded the former.
If cops really wanted to be able to do their jobs without fear, we would see police unions lobbying to disarm the populace all over the nation. But they don’t, because they don’t give a shit about anything except being worshipped.
That video was one of the most sad things I have ever seen. I think every Republican and NRA member should be forced to watch it. Seriously, what on earth are they doing at this point? Did they seriously just set a perimeter and then just stand there until they built up overwhelming force to go in? So essentially despite them being nearby and doctrine being to go right in and engage immediately, they did not??!?!
So much for the "Good guy with a gun" myth for good. More like the "Professionally trained and armed officers cower from a single armed 18 year old kid with a rifle".
It just demonstrates that the only solution is less guns.
Like, I give these cops zero credit but I also get it. I wouldn't wanna face off against someone with a fucking AR-15 or similar either. That's very much "Yeah, no thanks" territory. But that's why you have to prevent them from every being able to get one in the first place. So nobody has to deal with this shit.
By the same token, this is the fucking job they signed up for. If you don’t want to deal with American gun violence go get a goddamn desk job somewhere. What this demonstrates is that these gibbering asshole elementals want all the power and respect that comes with being a police officer with none of the responsibility, danger, or self-sacrifice that is the entire reason they are afforded the former.
If cops really wanted to be able to do their jobs without fear, we would see police unions lobbying to disarm the populace all over the nation. But they don’t, because they don’t give a shit about anything except being worshipped.
If they disarmed people they wouldn't have an argument to get all that sweet military gear. And also they would be disarming themselves personally. 99.9% of cops are hardcore gun fetishists.
Posts
And we have the fucking gall to call these cowards heroes.
SHAKING
with rage at the fact that these fucking coward cops just fucking stood there instead of saving children
And these mother fuckers have the fucking goddamn gall to get pissed when we say anything bad about them or anything about how maybe they don't need these giant budgets and tanks
Or even any kind of fucking accountability
Just
FUCK YOU
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
The reality of this shooting makes it truly one of the saddest I’ve ever seen in the 23 years since Columbine.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
This is my perspective (with the disclaimer that I've never been a cop. This is purely from a security, military and fire&rescue viewpoint where I do have some experience):
1. The Uvalde SWAT team has 9 members. Which means it's not a quick response team (there is simply no way you can provide 24/7 quick response with that few people). They can do hazardous warrants, they can assemble relatively quickly but "relatively quickly" is not "within the hour". Quick response teams is something most police forces do not have.
2. Going into an environment like a school, against a shooter with bodyarmor and armed with an automatic rifle is not a good idea. Especially not with an uncoordinated group of people who are not really trained in this type of close quarters combat (and no, your average police officer is not trained for this. Not even in countries where police officers have 2+ years of training before they're even allowed on the street). The shooter works in an environment where everyone he meets is an enemy and where he tends to have a good grasp of the layout, while any team trying to take down a shooter works in an environment where there are bystanders, other members of their team and the knowledge of the building layout is somewhat sketchy. There is a reason why the first police response tends to be to contain and evacuate unless there is active gunfire. The no.1 rule of any kind of hazardous job is "Do what you're trained for. If you become another victim you're only adding to the problem".
3. There is body armor and there is body armor. AFAIK only SWAT teams (and their equivalents) have the kind of body armor that can stop a bullet from an AR15, while everyone else is wearing body armor that's meant to stop bullets from handguns (and does basically nothing against against a rifle).
4. The Border Patrol tactical team was probably the first tactical team (ie, cohesive group of people actually trained to do this) that arrived on the scene.
Overall. There are basically two ways you can stop school shootings (or more accurately, reduce the number school shootings and the casualties). You can either a. Reduce the number of schools and have a 4 to 8 man paramilitary team in every school every day (the way afghanistan used to run girls schools before the taliban took over). b. Put much stricter controls on guns in general and automatics in particular on a national basis.
Pick one or the other, because pretty much everything else is equivalent to thoughts&prayers.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
"He was counting dollars while they were counting bodies." re: Greg Abbott attending a fundraiser the night of the shooting
Yes, Democrats, more of this please
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
No the cops are cowards. This is their fucking jobs. This is why they tell us they need $TEXAS budgets constantly. This is why we're not allowed to hold them accountable. This is why we have to be nice to them always forever. This is why we have to BACK THE BLUE.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
More Than 20 Elementary School Children
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
They’re cowards and have earned the label. There were parents who were unarmed more willing to go in there to try to potentially save their children.
And there is video of how many officers were there and what they were armed with. You can look at them and make up your own mind.
Small towns everywhere in the US seem to blow crazy money on police officers. I grew up in a town with 1800 people in the midwest. We had 3 cops on full time payroll for just that small town, plus local sheriff's deputies. At one point the city bought them all brand new SUV cruisers because they were having trouble towing people out of snow banks. They had a drug dog! that was regularly used to search the high school lockers. They were so bored that mostly all they did was harass high school kids, and any person unfortunate enough to have to drive on the highway through town at night. I can't even imagine how badly those untrained, undisciplined, alcoholic jackasses would have botched a school shooting response.
Actually now that I think about it, even big metropolises typically spend a massive part of their budget on the ever growing police state.
Anything else results in the shooter continuing to kill, and more often than not when the police do engage the shooter it will either make them stop murdering innocent kids / people while they fight / flee / hunker down in response police, or at the first real resistance the shooter will commit suicide.
Yes of course it's scary and dangerous and not something any officer ever wants to face. If you're not willing to do that to save kids turn in your badge and gun and find another career.
Police are happy to take on unarmed minorities but one shithead teen with a rifle and suddenly they need a coherent tactical team? What the fuck are they even trained for? They seemed to have no problem turning their backs on the school to demand terrified parents stay back or arrest them.
I mean..someone already posted in this thread the story of the officer who posted up outside the school in Florida where a shooting took place(instead of entering and engaging), and now the state is charging him with (basically) child neglect for not rendering aid, which comes with prison time. So the state of Florida is sure saying there is a responsibility to go in and engage. And Abbott will do the same in TX if he thinks he can make scapegoats out of the cops in Uvalde.
I'm not trying to be pro cop propaganda, But they're usually consistent in their Gospels.
This much deviation makes me wonder where they were trained or if they faked it. Which really isn't that impossible now that I think about it considering the amount of chroniasm that exists and modern law enforcement
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
It is always: Any evidence the policy (unrestricted gun rights) has fatal unstoppable consequences (regular mass shootings) is evidence that the solution is more of the policy (more guns for everyone who doesn’t have one yet)
Clearly the issue would be solved if the schoolchildren each had a handgun
NNID: Hakkekage
Good guy with a gun has always been a bullshit philosophy, but this shooting really proves how hollow that right wing talking point is.
Maybe that 4 million should have gone into community enrichment and mental health programs. School counseling at the kid's high school. Things that may have actually prevented this from happening, because the police and SWAT budget fucking failed.
Proving a right wing talking point hollow has been something we've fallen over each other to do for 20+ years and it's never done anything.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
and then in the same breath imply it should be fucking the teachers getting in gun fights
If that's all true, and let's say it is
Why do we bother arming them with AR-15's and full body armor? Why were they fully able to get their own kids out when they apparently are powerless to stop anyone but *checks notes* the terrified parents outside, of who they detained at least one. True heroes.
Everyone says this is what police are for, but it's clear they aren't. So people are pissed off that this kind of rhetoric used by cops and cop supporters, i.e. "if you defund the police who will you call when the shooting starts", and is justification for them being in near full battle rattle.
It's almost like civilians having military level hardware is a dumb idea.
I can see the intended response for each situation requiring pretty different approaches.
It's almost certainly the personnel cost of one person that's doing grant and reimbursement coordination with the Texas department of emergency management
Active shooter is just that. Actively moving/firing. Or unknown but likely to be.
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
All the pro-cop fascists keep saying "if you defund the police who's gonna help in these situations?" and my response is, well the police aren't helping these situations right now
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
It's a fine line and definitely has blurred a lot the past decade or so.
An active shooter situation could stabilize and evolve into a hostage situation (or hostage devolve to active shooter situation) but generally in a hostage situation negotiation and surrender without (further) bloodshed is a possibility or likelihood.
Typical mass / spree shooters are distinctively not hostage takers (when there is active shooting clarifying edit - in a hostage situation - it tends to be incidental / accidental, like an armed guard) and their goal is explicitly to kill as many people as possible, so negotiations just give them more opportunity to achieve their goals.
A hostage taker may be willing to kill to achieve their goal, but its not their goal.
To deal with american gun violence it would seem.
Turns out they are bad at that though.
I cannot believe it took them a full hour to do all of that.
It just demonstrates that the only solution is less guns.
Like, I give these cops zero credit but I also get it. I wouldn't wanna face off against someone with a fucking AR-15 or similar either. That's very much "Yeah, no thanks" territory. But that's why you have to prevent them from every being able to get one in the first place. So nobody has to deal with this shit.
I GET it, but no sympathy from me here.
If you don't want to face off against some nut with an AR-15, turn in your badge and find a different career.
Go into something safe like teaching or retail...oh...hm...yeah. 'Murica.
YOU DON'T GET TO CHOOSE WHAT SCHOOL YOU GO TO
Unless you manage to get your kids into a charter school, you DON'T GET TO PICK LKJDSFJLKJKASJUIJODOUQHJ FUCK U FOX NEWSSSSSS
If a school is "shoot-up-able" it's because the district built it that way.
By the same token, this is the fucking job they signed up for. If you don’t want to deal with American gun violence go get a goddamn desk job somewhere. What this demonstrates is that these gibbering asshole elementals want all the power and respect that comes with being a police officer with none of the responsibility, danger, or self-sacrifice that is the entire reason they are afforded the former.
If cops really wanted to be able to do their jobs without fear, we would see police unions lobbying to disarm the populace all over the nation. But they don’t, because they don’t give a shit about anything except being worshipped.
I have little sympathy
If they disarmed people they wouldn't have an argument to get all that sweet military gear. And also they would be disarming themselves personally. 99.9% of cops are hardcore gun fetishists.
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
in theory, because the border is pretty fucked up and oftentimes that's true.
In reality, it's a pissant little town halfway to nowhere and they need a SWAT team like a duck needs a canoe.