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Uvalde Shooting: 19 elementary school children dead, 2 adults

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited May 2022
    And every time somebody inevitably suggests arming teachers I just want to scream at them

    Teachers have enough goddamn problems on their plate, and are severely underfunded, and you want to add firearm safety and policing to their responsibilities?!

    You don’t fucking trust them to execute their own lesson plans, but you expect and trust them to execute intruders

    joshofalltrades on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    That video was one of the most sad things I have ever seen. I think every Republican and NRA member should be forced to watch it. Seriously, what on earth are they doing at this point? Did they seriously just set a perimeter and then just stand there until they built up overwhelming force to go in? So essentially despite them being nearby and doctrine being to go right in and engage immediately, they did not??!?!

    So much for the "Good guy with a gun" myth for good. More like the "Professionally trained and armed officers cower from a single armed 18 year old kid with a rifle".

    It just demonstrates that the only solution is less guns.

    Like, I give these cops zero credit but I also get it. I wouldn't wanna face off against someone with a fucking AR-15 or similar either. That's very much "Yeah, no thanks" territory. But that's why you have to prevent them from every being able to get one in the first place. So nobody has to deal with this shit.

    By the same token, this is the fucking job they signed up for. If you don’t want to deal with American gun violence go get a goddamn desk job somewhere. What this demonstrates is that these gibbering asshole elementals want all the power and respect that comes with being a police officer with none of the responsibility, danger, or self-sacrifice that is the entire reason they are afforded the former.

    If cops really wanted to be able to do their jobs without fear, we would see police unions lobbying to disarm the populace all over the nation. But they don’t, because they don’t give a shit about anything except being worshipped.

    That's why I give them zero credit here. Like, you asked for all the tacticool gear and training exactly for this. This is ostensibly the point of all that.

    But what we actually get here is a demonstration of why the only actual solution is less guns. Because all that SWAT stuff doesn't mean shit most of the time.

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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Refund the police. Product not working as intended, we would like our money back.

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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    And every time somebody inevitably suggests arming teachers I just want to scream at them

    Teachers have enough goddamn problems on their plate, and are severely underfunded, and you want to add firearm safety and policing to their responsibilities?!

    You don’t fucking trust them to execute their own lesson plans, but you expect and trust them to execute intruders

    Not to mention trying to keep a gun in a classroom out of the hands of teenagers would be a losing battle. They're exactly the age where they have the analytical and motoric ability to get past any security measure, but not the judgement to know that they shouldn't.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Don't worry folks, Fox News has the answer!

    Parents are at fault here, because they...*checks notes from video* didn't do enough proper research on how "shoot-up-able" their school is!



    It’s trolling to “own the libs” at this point.

    Or brain damage.

    But I suspect it’s the first.

    YOU DON'T GET TO CHOOSE WHAT SCHOOL YOU GO TO

    Unless you manage to get your kids into a charter school, you DON'T GET TO PICK LKJDSFJLKJKASJUIJODOUQHJ FUCK U FOX NEWSSSSSS

    If a school is "shoot-up-able" it's because the district built it that way.

    Literally every building is shoot-up-able if you have someone willing to shoot in and around it. Even if we made every structure in America a hardened supermax style design with Sally Ports for every movement including having to take a shit, have you ever heard of this thing called a prison riot?

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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Refund the police. Product not working as intended, we would like our money back.

    Oh, they're working as intended

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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    And every time somebody inevitably suggests arming teachers I just want to scream at them

    Teachers have enough goddamn problems on their plate, and are severely underfunded, and you want to add firearm safety and policing to their responsibilities?!

    You don’t fucking trust them to execute their own lesson plans, but you expect and trust them to execute intruders

    We make teachers buy their own supplies like fucking PENCILS AND MARKERS AND SHIT

    And now your solution is to arm them? So of course you're gonna make them pay for their own guns and bullets, too, then aren't you?

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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Lokarn wrote: »
    Meanwhile $76k a year on emergency services, unchanged since the start of the chart. I assume that would be healthcare expenditure since police and fire are already listed. Just insane.

    unchanged through the pandemic. Uvalde is apparently a shithole. Also what was that $5m bump in 2020 for "general government"?

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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Refund the police. Product not working as intended, we would like our money back.

    Oh, they're working as intended

    There's gotta be another item on the dropdown... aha

    Reason: Product description inaccurate / deceptive.

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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    American cops exist to protect capital not people

    Best illustration of this is in the leadup to the subway shooting NYCs mayo started an initiative to increase police presence on the subway.

    Their job? Hang out at the end of the lines and harass the homeless people on the trains. Can't stop a shooting but we'll damn well make sure no rich folks have to see a homeless guy

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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    The right wing donkeys aren't willing to trust librarians with books, but will trust them with guns? It's a fucking joke.

    Also child deaths from gunshots have more than doubled since Greg Abbott took office. I hope he takes a brick to the teeth.

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    TuminTumin Registered User regular
    I wish students had a better mechanism to protest, that would inconvenience other people

    I wish kids under 16 had literally any option to advocate in a way that couldnt be ignored

    I dunno whether to lay it at the feet of cars or what but ugh. Just remembering that students walked out and how ineffective it was and how frustrating it is that the group with the most to gain and the least to lose and who doesnt get paid to work's efforts last time around didnt pan out.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Refund the police. Product not working as intended, we would like our money back.

    Oh, they're working as intended



    the thing to understand is that the children inside the school were not capital or social inequality, and so the police were under no obligation to protect them, especially when instead they could just indulge themselves with their traditional pastime of beating desperate people
    US police are trained to maximize control over situations while minimizing their personal risk. that translates into beating parents while a rampage shooter executes their children just as easily as it does their rolling up on a kid with a toy guy and executing him seconds later

    on a personal level you won't go wrong viewing police as the biggest gang around, one with effective impunity to kill you at any moment. on a social level, you won't go wrong seeing all our copaganda and blue lives fetishism as both reinforcing and disavowing this obvious fact

    even with video of the Uvalde cops doing what they did, note how hard it is right now for many people to even entertain the possibility that that was what it obvious is. note their invocations of obscure tactical jargon, the insistence that the cops must have had *some* reason

    and as time passes note how hard it will be to call upon this as a memory with others, the way people will treat it like it's some sort of conspiracy theory, like you know suspiciously or distastefully much about it. the psychic investment in disavowing what cops are is very real

    and a lot of that is about being afraid of them, about years of being made to be afraid of a world without them, and about how hard it is to reconcile staying sane knowing what you know with living in a culture of ubiquitous copaganda, celebrated violence and worship of authority

    Patrick Blanchfield is the author of Gunpower: The Structure of American Violence and associate faculty at the Brooklyn Institute, so he is an authority on this, but even if he were just a Twitter rando, his words are just as correct.

    It is not the job of the police to keep us safe, but it is very important to those whose interests the police truly protect that we believe otherwise.

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    SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited May 2022
    Hey kids, don’t let your parents go to work. Refuse school, because you might die there, until the adults in your life actually elect people that will actually make laws that make your schools not death traps. Specifically gun control laws.

    Trust me a bunch of middle schoolers just absolutely fuckin refusing to go to school will absolutely break parents.

    Like don’t go to school, and then walk out, straight up do not let your parents go to work.

    There’s totally ways kids can effectively strike.

    Sleep on
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    VanguardVanguard But now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2022
    Sleep wrote: »
    Hey kids, don’t let your parents go to work. Refuse school, because you might die there, until the adults in your life actually elect people that will actually make laws that make your schools not death traps. Specifically gun control laws.

    Trust me a bunch of middle schoolers just absolutely fuckin refusing to go to school will absolutely break parents.

    Like don’t go to school, and then walk out, straight up do not let your parents go to work.

    There’s totally ways kids can effectively strike.

    I had the same idea - the pandemic taught us that if you disrupt childcare everything breaks down

    Only problem is school is almost out so a National walkout is hard to sustain with the year ending

    Vanguard on
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Hey kids, don’t let your parents go to work. Refuse school, because you might die there, until the adults in your life actually elect people that will actually make laws that make your schools not death traps. Specifically gun control laws.

    Trust me a bunch of middle schoolers just absolutely fuckin refusing to go to school will absolutely break parents.

    Like don’t go to school, and then walk out, straight up do not let your parents go to work.

    There’s totally ways kids can effectively strike.

    That's... an interesting idea, although the age of kids where that forces a parent to stay home is fairly young so I'm not sure how you'd communicate it.

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited May 2022
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/ted-cruz-storms-out-of-british-interview-when-asked-about-gun-violence-after-texas-school-shooting



    SkyNews is a London media outfit
    "Why only in America?"

    US Senator Ted Cruz walks away from @Stone_SkyNews after being asked if "this is the moment to reform gun laws"

    video of Cruz failing to behave like a human being

    You can literally watch the mask slip off of his face

    He goes from faux grief to annoyance in the blink of an eye
    Ted Cruz wrote:
    I’m sorry you think American exceptionalism is awful.

    Word for word. Just unreal.

    joshofalltrades on
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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Ted Cruz is the worst person in American government.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene is stupider. Mitch McConnell is more evil.

    Ted Cruz is the absolute worst person in American government.

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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Ted Cruz is the worst person in American government.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene is stupider. Mitch McConnell is more evil.

    Ted Cruz is the absolute worst person in American government.

    I dunno. The competition is hard given that Paul Gosar is in the race (to the bottom).

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    "How dare you be upset with American exceptionalism?"

    When it's literally "there are more mass shootings than there are days in the year" that is what's so exceptional here.

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    I mean. He showed up like a vulture to pretend to be sympathetic about a bunch of kids getting murdered. But he was really there to defend gun rights.

    What’s the functional difference between a goose stepping Nazi that doesn’t care about kids getting murdered and one that only pretends to care about kids getting murdered?

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    TuminTumin Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Hey kids, don’t let your parents go to work. Refuse school, because you might die there, until the adults in your life actually elect people that will actually make laws that make your schools not death traps. Specifically gun control laws.

    Trust me a bunch of middle schoolers just absolutely fuckin refusing to go to school will absolutely break parents.

    Like don’t go to school, and then walk out, straight up do not let your parents go to work.

    There’s totally ways kids can effectively strike.

    I think there are but it really hurts the wrong people, and hurting your parent for proxy damage against the State is ??? Idk, hard sell!

    I mean, ideally it would be the kids at school.with politicians kids ruining THAT or just straight up making their lives hell, as a serious effort. Pretty targeted stuff.

    Though I guess grandkids is more likely since eveyone in Congress is over 100 or whatever.

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    ChiselphaneChiselphane Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Don't worry folks, Fox News has the answer!

    Parents are at fault here, because they...*checks notes from video* didn't do enough proper research on how "shoot-up-able" their school is!



    It’s trolling to “own the libs” at this point.

    Or brain damage.

    But I suspect it’s the first.

    YOU DON'T GET TO CHOOSE WHAT SCHOOL YOU GO TO

    Unless you manage to get your kids into a charter school, you DON'T GET TO PICK LKJDSFJLKJKASJUIJODOUQHJ FUCK U FOX NEWSSSSSS

    If a school is "shoot-up-able" it's because the district built it that way.

    An earlier poster hit the nail on the head. "Oh, you can't choose schools? Well why not homeschool your child, that way you can fill their heads with only your personal flavor of propaganda, no outside influences, doesn't that sound lovely?"

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    Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    I've been going through my own personal bullshit this past week so I'm a little ashamed to admit this is the first I'm actually looking at what happened. It's so overly exhausting to be engaged and enraged with what's happening. It's so exhausting to be told "go vote" and I do, and nothing happens. It's frustrating I lived in TX for 6 years and they seemingly have only gotten worse over time. I'm ashamed of our shitty government, who so quickly drops a billion for Ukraine but can't muster a single buck towards gun control. Start a fucking buy back program. Give us free healthcare, including mental healthcare. For the love of god do fucking anything because whatever we've done for the last 20-30 years isnt doing jackshit.

    I'll.be crawling back into my hole now

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Ted Cruz wrote:
    I’m sorry you think American exceptionalism is awful.
    I'm sorry you don't.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Most, not all but most, regular non swat cops do active shooter training btw.

    Well all the young cops getting in now have definitely done it

    …in school

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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Tumin wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Hey kids, don’t let your parents go to work. Refuse school, because you might die there, until the adults in your life actually elect people that will actually make laws that make your schools not death traps. Specifically gun control laws.

    Trust me a bunch of middle schoolers just absolutely fuckin refusing to go to school will absolutely break parents.

    Like don’t go to school, and then walk out, straight up do not let your parents go to work.

    There’s totally ways kids can effectively strike.

    I think there are but it really hurts the wrong people, and hurting your parent for proxy damage against the State is ??? Idk, hard sell!

    I mean, ideally it would be the kids at school.with politicians kids ruining THAT or just straight up making their lives hell, as a serious effort. Pretty targeted stuff.

    Though I guess grandkids is more likely since eveyone in Congress is over 100 or whatever.

    Probably hurts parents less for a kid to miss school than to fucking die

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    TefTef Registered User regular
    I hope those pigs’ cowardice haunts them for the rest of their days. I hope they can never look their friends and family in the eye again. I hope they can’t bear to look at themselves in the mirror, or in photographs. I hope every night as they try to sleep, they can hear the cries of those parents and their children. I hope that they have to struggle to answer the existential question of, “am I enough?” and they have to wrestle with the fact that, no, they are not.

    help a fellow forumer meet their mental health care needs because USA healthcare sucks!

    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better

    bit.ly/2XQM1ke
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    TuminTumin Registered User regular
    edited May 2022
    idk major tone misread, sorry, sigh tough life.

    Tumin on
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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Tumin wrote: »
    Tumin wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Hey kids, don’t let your parents go to work. Refuse school, because you might die there, until the adults in your life actually elect people that will actually make laws that make your schools not death traps. Specifically gun control laws.

    Trust me a bunch of middle schoolers just absolutely fuckin refusing to go to school will absolutely break parents.

    Like don’t go to school, and then walk out, straight up do not let your parents go to work.

    There’s totally ways kids can effectively strike.

    I think there are but it really hurts the wrong people, and hurting your parent for proxy damage against the State is ??? Idk, hard sell!

    I mean, ideally it would be the kids at school.with politicians kids ruining THAT or just straight up making their lives hell, as a serious effort. Pretty targeted stuff.

    Though I guess grandkids is more likely since eveyone in Congress is over 100 or whatever.

    Probably hurts parents less for a kid to miss school than to fucking die

    Apparently not, since they arent keeping them out.

    Is that enough bad faith, kneejerk, context-ignoring, vitriolic rancor for you?

    Oh wait wait.

    Any parent who isnt keeping their kid home today doesnt love them, obviously

    Fucking nailed it.

    When a call for protest is answered with "Oh but that's inconvenient" I am going to struggle to respond with anything other than vitriol

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    TuminTumin Registered User regular
    Tumin wrote: »
    Tumin wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Hey kids, don’t let your parents go to work. Refuse school, because you might die there, until the adults in your life actually elect people that will actually make laws that make your schools not death traps. Specifically gun control laws.

    Trust me a bunch of middle schoolers just absolutely fuckin refusing to go to school will absolutely break parents.

    Like don’t go to school, and then walk out, straight up do not let your parents go to work.

    There’s totally ways kids can effectively strike.

    I think there are but it really hurts the wrong people, and hurting your parent for proxy damage against the State is ??? Idk, hard sell!

    I mean, ideally it would be the kids at school.with politicians kids ruining THAT or just straight up making their lives hell, as a serious effort. Pretty targeted stuff.

    Though I guess grandkids is more likely since eveyone in Congress is over 100 or whatever.

    Probably hurts parents less for a kid to miss school than to fucking die

    Apparently not, since they arent keeping them out.

    Is that enough bad faith, kneejerk, context-ignoring, vitriolic rancor for you?

    Oh wait wait.

    Any parent who isnt keeping their kid home today doesnt love them, obviously

    Fucking nailed it.

    When a call for protest is answered with "Oh but that's inconvenient" I am going to struggle to respond with anything other than vitriol

    I wouldnt call that my objection? A protest should hit the right people.

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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Tef wrote: »
    I hope those pigs’ cowardice haunts them for the rest of their days. I hope they can never look their friends and family in the eye again. I hope they can’t bear to look at themselves in the mirror, or in photographs. I hope every night as they try to sleep, they can hear the cries of those parents and their children. I hope that they have to struggle to answer the existential question of, “am I enough?” and they have to wrestle with the fact that, no, they are not.

    Nah they're making excuses about how this is the Democrats' fault for defunding them and attacking them and causing them to be too sad to do their fucking jobs

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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    And every time somebody inevitably suggests arming teachers I just want to scream at them

    Teachers have enough goddamn problems on their plate, and are severely underfunded, and you want to add firearm safety and policing to their responsibilities?!

    You don’t fucking trust them to execute their own lesson plans, but you expect and trust them to execute intruders

    it means that we expect teachers to shoot their own student if the need arises.

    Next level insanity.

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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    I was talking about the accusation that the police called out ti the kids and got one of them killed by giving out their position to the shooter

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular

    Sinema Says ‘DC Solutions’ Are Not ‘Realistic’ When Asked If She’d Reform Filibuster To Pass Gun Control https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/sinema-kelly-manchin-filibuster-gun-control-shooting… via
    @TPM

    Sinema is determined to go beyond being a disappointment and become the most hated Democratic politician in a generation

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    SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Grab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front door Registered User regular
    Tumin wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Hey kids, don’t let your parents go to work. Refuse school, because you might die there, until the adults in your life actually elect people that will actually make laws that make your schools not death traps. Specifically gun control laws.

    Trust me a bunch of middle schoolers just absolutely fuckin refusing to go to school will absolutely break parents.

    Like don’t go to school, and then walk out, straight up do not let your parents go to work.

    There’s totally ways kids can effectively strike.

    I think there are but it really hurts the wrong people, and hurting your parent for proxy damage against the State is ??? Idk, hard sell!

    I mean, ideally it would be the kids at school.with politicians kids ruining THAT or just straight up making their lives hell, as a serious effort. Pretty targeted stuff.

    Though I guess grandkids is more likely since eveyone in Congress is over 100 or whatever.

    Probably hurts parents less for a kid to miss school than to fucking die

    I can't sustain needing to leave my job long enough for reform to get passed

    Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular

    Sinema Says ‘DC Solutions’ Are Not ‘Realistic’ When Asked If She’d Reform Filibuster To Pass Gun Control https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/sinema-kelly-manchin-filibuster-gun-control-shooting… via
    @TPM

    Sinema is determined to go beyond being a disappointment and become the most hated Democratic politician in a generation

    Is Lieberman last generation already? Also, who stole my Ovaltine?

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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited May 2022
    I’m mildly annoyed that I’m now focused on the cowardice of American police and not the fact that 21 people are dead because we bathe in guns all day. Like, I only have so much rage and not enough for both at once. I’ll try to alternate I guess.

    mcdermott on
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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular

    Sinema Says ‘DC Solutions’ Are Not ‘Realistic’ When Asked If She’d Reform Filibuster To Pass Gun Control https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/sinema-kelly-manchin-filibuster-gun-control-shooting… via
    @TPM

    Sinema is determined to go beyond being a disappointment and become the most hated Democratic politician in a generation

    Sinema is beyond useless and I can't wait for 2024 to see her get primaried out of existence

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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited May 2022
    If it helps her likely primary opponent has some very cathartic tweets on this subject

    Also real good juxtaposition here between her and Mark Kelly, our other senator from Arizona, a retired service member and husband of Gabby Giffords

    Captain Inertia on
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