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[Balatro] So I'll tell you all the story about the Poker and the rougelike

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Posts

  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Okay, that annoys me: Debuffed cards dont count for anyhting... but do count for Blackboard scoring purposes. That's just irksome

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    Okay, that annoys me: Debuffed cards dont count for anyhting... but do count for Blackboard scoring purposes. That's just irksome
    I am glad that they at least do something? If debuffed cards would become absolutely neutral as stone cards, which would prevent them from being used for even completing a pair, that would be absolutely awful. Because sometimes you need to complete a hand or make a hand full of debuffed cards in order to score anything, and if that wouldn't be the case, then any bosses that debuff cards would be even more horrible than they are.

    Maybe Blackboard should be reworded like "if there are no (active) red cards in hand", because I noticed that stone cards do not interfere with Blackboard.

    I do like that the jokers try to be "in your advantage", for the best result for you; like the "Club + non-club = x2" joker I mentioned earlier, when with Smeared joker it considers a spade flush both consisting of being clubs and non-clubs.

    If only wild cards could be the same in the case of "Suit X is debuffed", in that they would be "nope, I'm not of suit X", but hey, we can't have it all.

    PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    It's more that in every other case of "Held card in hand is debuffed" it does nothing, it doesn't trigger any jokers relying on it - even when played, they don't trigger joker aiblites Burning Joker, Hiker, etc.

    But they still exist for the purposes of blackboard, whcih feels off with every other interaction. It's not huge, it's just a werid friction point

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    I dunno I think it track. The debuff is meant to be purely a disadvantage to you. Blackboard isn't the only Joker that looks at debuffed cards either. Turning a penalty into an advantage feels very much against the concepts of the game to me.

  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    Speaking of obvious but not obvious interactions - just found out on a run that Red Seal procs on Steel Cards held in hand - and any effects like Raised Fist, Baron etc.

    So it's basically always potentially worth it to grab a Red Sealed *anything* you find, because you can just Chariot it and it effectively becomes a X2.25 in your hand.

  • cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    Yeah that makes sense to me. The cards are debuffed, not neutral. If the blind is "all heart cards are debuffed", and all the hearts in your hand are debuffed, it doesn't make them not hearts anymore. They're debuffed heart cards. Blackboard should count them.

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  • aiouaaioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    Yeah that makes sense to me. The cards are debuffed, not neutral. If the blind is "all heart cards are debuffed", and all the hearts in your hand are debuffed, it doesn't make them not hearts anymore. They're debuffed heart cards. Blackboard should count them.

    I think the problem is it doesn't always work that way.

    Like iirc DNA will not copy a debuffed card, even though it meets the requirements (you played a hand with one card).

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    edited March 2024
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Speaking of obvious but not obvious interactions - just found out on a run that Red Seal procs on Steel Cards held in hand - and any effects like Raised Fist, Baron etc.

    So it's basically always potentially worth it to grab a Red Sealed *anything* you find, because you can just Chariot it and it effectively becomes a X2.25 in your hand.

    Do remeber that cards in hand count *before* jokers, so they're only good at pushing the multi up if you've stacked it somehow already.Though this gets werider with stuff like Baron or Shoot the Moon, where it'll score them immediately. Steel Red Seal Queens/Kings tend to be really good, though very easily hosed by boss blinds
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    I dunno I think it track. The debuff is meant to be purely a disadvantage to you. Blackboard isn't the only Joker that looks at debuffed cards either. Turning a penalty into an advantage feels very much against the concepts of the game to me.

    I'd agree with this, except Eternal exists, and massively buffs at least one Joker (Madnesss), as well as Spectral cards (Hex is a lot less crap when you've got Eternal jokers)

    The Zombie Penguin on
    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    4a5crnkg52a7.png\

    The worst part of High card runs is trying to not accidentally make straights, pairs or similar. Not that two The Bulls (Meaning every dollar is worth 4 chips), a x38 Supernova (+10 from holographic), and a x5.4 Vampire really give a shit.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    4a5crnkg52a7.png\

    The worst part of High card runs is trying to not accidentally make straights, pairs or similar. Not that two The Bulls (Meaning every dollar is worth 4 chips), a x38 Supernova (+10 from holographic), and a x5.4 Vampire really give a shit.

    Based on the look of it with 4 Jokers wouldn't it be safer just to play one card?

  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    I think Vamp takes buffs off non-scoring cards, and you may want to cycle cards looking for steels still.
    I'm also not sure if Vamp eats foil/holo/poly improvements; I know the Tower does not.

  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    edited March 2024
    discrider wrote: »
    I think Vamp takes buffs off non-scoring cards, and you may want to cycle cards looking for steels still.
    I'm also not sure if Vamp eats foil/holo/poly improvements; I know the Tower does not.

    Ahh valid. I knew I was missing something.

    Edit: Also I would think it would not. I seem to remember the card saying it dealt with "enhancements" which is a keyword on the game. So seals and the other improvements should be fine I believe since you can stack them.

    Gnizmo on
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    edited March 2024
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    4a5crnkg52a7.png\

    The worst part of High card runs is trying to not accidentally make straights, pairs or similar. Not that two The Bulls (Meaning every dollar is worth 4 chips), a x38 Supernova (+10 from holographic), and a x5.4 Vampire really give a shit.

    Based on the look of it with 4 Jokers wouldn't it be safer just to play one card?

    There was some reason I was playing 5.i may have been trying to dig the deck to find some Enhanced cards I'd added to feed Vampire

    Also I think it was actually The Psychic that made me have that comedy of errors, so I had to play 5

    The Zombie Penguin on
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  • AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    I'm new to this game, but I just had a sweet run going where I got the joker that makes all cards count as face cards early, and then almost immediately got the one that gives a chance of getting $2 whenever you play a face card, and eventually got the one that replays all face cards. Then the boss blind came up that debuffs all face cards.

    It's been a hot minute since I've been checkmated so hard by a video game. I guess the lesson is "If you don't buy the voucher that lets you reroll boss blinds, you may just lose no matter what else you do." Either that or the lesson is "The jokers for buffing face cards are a trap, gotcha lol".

  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    I'm new to this game, but I just had a sweet run going where I got the joker that makes all cards count as face cards early, and then almost immediately got the one that gives a chance of getting $2 whenever you play a face card, and eventually got the one that replays all face cards. Then the boss blind came up that debuffs all face cards.

    It's been a hot minute since I've been checkmated so hard by a video game. I guess the lesson is "If you don't buy the voucher that lets you reroll boss blinds, you may just lose no matter what else you do." Either that or the lesson is "The jokers for buffing face cards are a trap, gotcha lol".

    As above, there is a challenge that forces you into the 'all cards are face cards' mode.
    And I managed to push past the debuffed face cards boss (at 40K) by being able to stack Planet cards on the same hand, and having a bunch of 1.5x buffing jokers (as well as a flat +50 chip buff if I recall).
    So I wound up playing 20K three-of-a-kind level 10 debuffed hands, into the 40K target boss.

    But that required the Hone voucher (makes buffed jokers more likely), and the Burned joker (levels first discarded hand), which may or may not be available to you yet.

    Short story; it's not run ending, but you have to have non-card-dependent bonuses on your jokers and have a highly leveled hand in order to push through the debuff.

  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    I'm new to this game, but I just had a sweet run going where I got the joker that makes all cards count as face cards early, and then almost immediately got the one that gives a chance of getting $2 whenever you play a face card, and eventually got the one that replays all face cards. Then the boss blind came up that debuffs all face cards.

    It's been a hot minute since I've been checkmated so hard by a video game. I guess the lesson is "If you don't buy the voucher that lets you reroll boss blinds, you may just lose no matter what else you do." Either that or the lesson is "The jokers for buffing face cards are a trap, gotcha lol".

    So, this is one of the big pain points in the game that the game dosent really teach you how to handle.

    There's two main approaches when building your stratergy in Balatro. One is Joker Based, the other is Card based.

    Card based means you're using stuff like Hack, the one that retriggers face cards, etc to rack up points via playing specific cards. It tends to crumple because you hit the specific blind that just entirely hoses you. The other stratergy is just jokers that scale or give so many raw chips that scaling is irrelvant - The Bull, Stuntman, Supernova, Mystic Joker etc, that you can ignore whatever hands you're playing and brute force score easily.

    Card Based stratergies are sstill super powerful, they're just a lot more volatile and prone to get wiped by boss blinds.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • SlymSlym Registered User regular
    edited March 2024
    joker based strategies are how you beat the game consistently.

    card based strategies are how you break the game occasionally

    Slym on
    My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Just beat the 10-minute city challenge by completely ignoring the bus stop joker.
    We're just playing straights, earning chips and using card bonuses and Ancient Joker.

  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    SLyM wrote: »
    joker based strategies are how you beat the game consistently.

    card based strategies are how you break the game occasionally

    Jorbs just published a video a few days ago digging into the game somewhat. Clickbaity title and thumbnail aside, it's real good at giving info here on his opinions, issues, and likes of the game.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF-stzXYYQY

    It very much hits a lot of my own frustration points - I'm playing on black stake and treating the game as pretty mindless here, becuase nothing else is that fun, due to a whole bunch of factors. Good for something mindless, but there's so much potentianl. I want more!

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    humsjbbua7uv.png

    Very normal, reasonable deck.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    edited March 2024
    I decided to do some of the challenges and started with omelets. 0qr4dbbtkhfn.png

    I am at the end of ante 1 and it is feeling pretty much like a cake walk right now. Aren't these supposed to be hard? :p

    Edit: I thought I might have jinxed myself at the end when I saw the final boss was debuff one Joker each round. First choice? Egg 2. I beat every blind that entire game in one hand (got Blackboard and Stuntman in my first shop). Why didn't I buy a lottery ticket instead?!?!?!*

    *Because gambling is dumb and consistency is best as this game repeatedly enforces.

    Gnizmo on
  • Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    I had to try Omelette quite a few tries, but as soon as a Swashbuckler turns up in the first 2 antes, you're golden and it's the easiest challenge ever.

    PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
  • cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    edited March 2024
    I just unlocked that Deck where you don't get any Face Cards, and I can see some interesting synergies that can come from this.

    Also a streamer I watch hit the "all cards are face cards" run only to immediately run into the "all face cards are debuffed" boss blind. He was fine though, he just sold that joker

    Edit: he actually got 'all face cards are flipped' and 'all face cards are debuffed' on consecutive antes

    cooljammer00 on
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  • Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    edited March 2024
    Fun Run 1:
    What happens when you get Burnt Joker after your first blind, and a Copy-Left Joker after the second blind, still in Ante 1?
    ves5vbg5d4nf.jpg
    (The image above is my situation at the Ante 8 boss).
    My Castle had 300+ chips on a 4-suit deck, and I had around $80 in hand.
    It was the first time that I gave the finger to the Ante 8 Boss that demanded to sell a joker in order to un-debuff all my cards, and I simply didn't :tongue:

    Fun Run 2:
    Egg + Swashbuckler = +3 Mult for free every blind. Egg + 2 Swashbucklers = Heaven.
    nq9i9sttqpmf.jpg
    This was my situation defeating the Ante 8 boss.
    So now I have a red sticker on my Copy Joker :smile:
    The Copy became a second Stuntman, and then I died at the Ante 9 boss, because I forgot about what it was and it was a "Play 5 cards" Boss.
    But my hand size was 4 :neutral::lol:
    My High Card was good, but not THAT good.

    Corporal Carl on
    PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
  • NogginNoggin Registered User regular
    You guys weren’t kidding about the black deck. My white stake wins were getting crazier and crazier and then the black deck killed all my momentum.

    Battletag: Noggin#1936
  • Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    I think I am going to wait to try to tackle Gold difficulty because on consoles we are still on version 1.0.0b, which means that foils jokers/cards get +30 chips instead of +50 chips and that's a huge difference.

    And our Empresses only give +3 Mult instead of +4, which is also a big difference.

    Sure, our Bootstraps and Castle are a bit better, but I'd rather have a boost to generic bonuses if I have to take a nerf on a few jokers.
    Noggin wrote: »
    You guys weren’t kidding about the black deck. My white stake wins were getting crazier and crazier and then the black deck killed all my momentum.
    Today I had been trying to win with the Black deck on Red difficulty (as it is the only deck I haven't completed on Red yet)and after crashing and burning many times, I decided to try the Green deck on Green and did it first try :lol:

    I tried Checkered with Gold a few times but that thing scales way too quickly while teetering on bankrupcy and unable to buy boosters, and 2 discards isn't funny.

    PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Currently doing the knife edge challenge.
    Started off getting the Certificate of Authenticity joker (card with seal added to hand each blind) + garbage Ante 2, cause I figured joker independent economy would be good.
    Just picked up the Hologram joker (x0.25 Mult per card added).
    I think I'm good for this challenge.

  • Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    Yay! Completed Black deck on Red difficulty!

    Time to try complete all decks on Green difficulty :smiley:

    PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
  • Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    Woohoo! My PS5 version just got patched to 1.0.0L :smiley:

    Screw you Arm! No longer shall my planet levels be set to level 0!

    PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Finally beat the Orange stakes by getting a Holographic Throwback in my first shop (with just enough money to buy it after the first skip). Then I got a free Spectral pack for another skip getting me Ankh (copy a random Joker and destroy all others), so I sold off my only other Joker to get a double on Throwback.

    After that, I was on a mass skip run, pumping both Throwbacks to absurdly high levels. This was my set up after the final boss (had to sell my +4 Mult for each Face card Joker):

    tmdziph2ea03.png

    Ended up only playing 8 rounds, which unlocked an achievement. Neat!

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  • Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    On my tour on winning a run with every deck on Green Difficulty, it was the Painted Deck that was being very annoying.
    Bigger hand size is nice, but only 4 jokers hurt.

    I won with the most stupid joker combination ever:
    osvhwg8qhupo.jpg
    So Ante 1, Small Blind had "Polychrome Joker" for skipping, which I did.
    This gave me a Delayed Gratification Polychrome joker. Hey, x1.5 Mult is better than nothing.
    The shop had a Spectral Pack and I said "Why not?" and the only thing that looked remotely silly was the "Copy Joker, destroy all others" option.
    With these 2 stupid jokers I stumbled into Ante 2, where I found a second Spectral Pack, and feeling silly, I decide to Ouija my cards.
    They all turned into 5's...

    The next shop had Fibonnaci, and well, a strategy was made up.
    I reached the Ante 8 boss, and this was right before my winning hand:
    q2ckouwqtto3.jpg
    While I did not have a lot of luck enchanting cards with Mult or Chips, I did encounter a silly amount of Death Tarot cards:
    x6ccegfdmvpr.jpg
    So yeah, I had 27 fives :lol:
    These are the hands I played:
    zvqa5nx254db.jpg
    The silly thing is that (besides Fibonnaci,) The Duo joker was the only one that was helpful; I didn't encounter any other multiplying jokers, and a Trio or the one for Four-of-a-Kind would've been great.

    So my whole run was really "I hope I survive the next blind" and a few times I won with a difference of less than 100 points.
    It was nervewracking, and steadily the Deaths trickled in.

    At the end I really had to focus on duplicating 5's of a different suit, because an accidental Flush Five would've spelled my doom.
    But I did it!

    So this is my current status:
    zptyk6nwxnbi.jpg
    So 15 decks completed on Green Difficulty = 15 x 3 = 45 + Checkered Deck completed on Orange (= +4) = 49 completed Stakes.

    In my first few weeks I was really playing the Checkered Deck a lot, with many Flushes as a result.
    But now that I have been playing on Green Difficulty, I am more pivoting to (Two) Pair builds, going to Full House and then Four-of-a-Kind/Five-of-a-Kind builds.
    It's true that Flushes are the easiest one to recognise, but you need better stuff to survive the higher difficulties.
    So my playstyle has evolved.

    PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
  • SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    Just learned something massive today:

    Re-triggers will also re-trigger jokers that are triggered by said cards. E.g. Ancient Joker will give 1.5x twice for said card. Or thrice if you have something like Hack and Seltzer. Or even four times if the card also has a red seal. It goes crazy.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    yarp. I wonder if that works for stuff like photograph which only triggers when the first face card is scored, which makes it pretty sucky unless you can get a ton of mult to score from cards before that face card is scored. Like even if the face card is scored twice, it's still technically the first card that was scored?

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    yarp. I wonder if that works for stuff like photograph which only triggers when the first face card is scored, which makes it pretty sucky unless you can get a ton of mult to score from cards before that face card is scored. Like even if the face card is scored twice, it's still technically the first card that was scored?

    That is in fact the way it works.

  • Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    There is a cheaty way to not be too damaged by the "Flips and shuffles all jokers" boss.

    With a mouse you can do this trick to select any card, on console I can manage it only for the rightmost card (because of the arrow button navigation).

    When you click the [Select] button, if you're quick enough, you can click and hold on a card to keep it into place. Very useful if you want to keep your highest xMult to the right, or your highest +Mult generator to the left.

    It works but it feels so hard like cheating...

    PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    gz35xm4g63z6.jpeg

    What a goofy spectral deck run.

    Started with a rare joker tag in the first small blind. Picked up the joker that switches suits every blind that gives you 1.5x mult for every card of that suit played. Immediately polychromed it.

    Things got sillier when a “turn all cards into the same rank” spectral card showed up in the shop, which I picked up and used to turn my whole hand into queens. Then I got the joker that deletes the first card you discard every blind.

    I started picking up queens wherever I could and deleting everything else. By the end of the run well over half my deck was queens. I upgraded anything north of three of a kind.

    I ended up getting the legendary joker that gives you x5 mult after enough discards, as well as the rare joker that gives you x3 if you have three of a kind. Then the run gave me the joker that dupes a random joker after three blinds, which I took and duped the x3 joker.

    From there it kind of just went to the moon, as you can see.

  • Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    Completed all decks on Black Difficulty! :smiley:

    Plasma Deck gave me the most trouble; I needed a day before I could complete it.
    I did it with this:
    r1fj16hulop7.jpg

    The Painted Deck (max. 4 jokers) was defeated by this nonsense:
    mwwwbvwo8rg3.jpg
    I am quite proud of this turn 1 Eternal Madness joker :blush:
    The Throwback joker was just along for the ride, but quite useless as I was not skipping blinds.
    That's what's happens when you buy without thinking :neutral:

    I'm proud of this Castle which helped me defeat the last deck (Erratic?) on Black:
    v66idbkhpeta.jpg
    This is the picture right before going into the Ante 8 Boss (where I sold the Burnt Joker because of Verdant Leaf).
    It was a Pair build, why do you ask?

    It was extremely fun silliness with the Anaglyph deck on Black:
    a2rdcnyaenrw.jpg
    Erosion on a deck with 23 cards (from a deck of 52) together with x2 x3 x3.8 x3.8 Mult apparently helps :lol:
    Sadly I died right before I could remove another 3 cards in order to get the "Thin down to 20 cards" trophy :disappointed:
    How did that deck look like? Well...
    prjh1s6j5ios.jpg
    This is what happens when you start with a Pair build and then swivel to Four-of-a-Kind :tongue:
    jck2ah7ivmp2.jpg

    I tried to relax a bit on White difficulty after pushing all 15 decks through on Black, and my luck was atrocious on White, give me many MANY non-point scoring jokers in a row.

    So when I am finally resurrected, I will try the Blue difficulty....

    PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Did the $400 gold achievement on my first try today. Went with the Plasma deck, found the Bull, Blueprint on the Bull, the $4 per round Joker, the $1 per 9 card Joker, and the double interest voucher. That money made the Bull bigger, which in turn made me win easier.

    Literally just sat back and played two-pairs and racked in the dough. Each round was the blind money ($3/$4/$5) + $4 + $4 + $10 for a total of $21-$23 per round. By the end the Bull/Blueprint combo were pulling in 900 chips each, plus some extras, for around 1000x1000 or 1 million chips. Not bad for doing nothing.

    Funnily enough, I also accidentally unlocked the "Don't use a Reroll" achievement since I was skipping every store.

    Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Man I still haven't gotten past Black Stakes.

  • Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Man I still haven't gotten past Black Stakes.
    If feel that from Green Stake onwards, you need to do a lot of run restarts until you get a favourable first (and even 2nd) blind, because the points ramp up quite quickly before your economy is running. And that even doesn't guarantee your early survival, because the game loves to toss your non-point-scoring jokers and standard packs in the beginning.

    If you haven't unlocked all jokers, try to do so first.
    The hardest to get is the Stuntman (hidden behind the $400 barrier), but that is a very useful card if you want to go for high card/pair runs, as is the Green Joker.

    Do not discount the flag that gives you chips per discard left; if you can increase your discards even more, then playing high card (therefore never requiring discards) earns you a lot of chips.
    In the first deck in my previous post, I had extended my discards with 2, netting me 5x50=250 chips per played hand, no wonder that I put my blueprint on that.

    I wish you all the best of luck and loads of perseverance.

    PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
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