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[Balatro] So I'll tell you all the story about the Poker and the rougelike

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    AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    edited March 12
    ahahaha pareidolia/midas/vampire

    +x1 mult per hand

    i kind of wonder if they'll nerf that, maybe make midas/vamp only proc on scoring cards instead of any played card

    e: i don't think it needs a nerf though, a three card combo is a pretty high cost so it doesn't hurt if it's broken

    Aioua on
    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    I'm still at that level where I'm just running into the meat grinder, restarting, meat grinder, etc.

    I do need to get better about specializing

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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    edited March 12
    i need to get better at not just going for flush or pair every single time. i never try to thin my deck or focus it outside of suits and i feel like that’s why it’s harder for me to win.

    i did beat the black deck tho, got the one that increases sell value every round on like, the second ante, and then got the mult increased by sell value of every joker to the left of it, so it ended up with like +60 mult. i got the last hand of the ante mult x3 joker near the end which saved the run.

    Knight_ on
    aeNqQM9.jpg
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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    Looking for Balatro strategies, I ran across this Reddit page

    https://www.reddit.com/r/balatro/comments/1bbh75a/how_to_win_chips_and_influence_mult_a_thorough/

    First Tip - stop relying on Flushes. They're apparently deceptively hard to get and also there are no jokers that scale for Flushes the way you'd want them to.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    I'm not sure why I've not seen Eris yet.
    I'm pretty sure I've played the hand but it was just 5 of a kind.

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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    Finally beat a run, Blue Deck. Turns out when you pick a strategy and go with it, you can do a lot better in a run.

    I'm in Endless Mode now, just to see how far I can go with this.

    For my Jokers, I have the one that upgrades played hands, one that adds the times a hand is played to the Mult, the one that boosts you if your hand only has Spades and Clubs in it, the baseball guy who is boosted by other Uncommons, and the one that boosts your Mult per Blind you've skipped.

    I keep repeating to myself "Spades and Clubs" like the way Ringo Starr kept saying "Peace and Love" in that video where he told his fans he was no longer accepting fanmail, so I remember what strategy I am doing.

    I also keep adding Spades and Clubs to my hand.

    Weirdly I don't think I had ever seen the "Spades and Clubs only" Joker until I saw that Reddit thread saying the card is good.

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    AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    I'm not sure why I've not seen Eris yet.
    I'm pretty sure I've played the hand but it was just 5 of a kind.

    For part of the demo at least there wasn't flush five so you might be remembering that.

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Aioua wrote: »
    discrider wrote: »
    I'm not sure why I've not seen Eris yet.
    I'm pretty sure I've played the hand but it was just 5 of a kind.

    For part of the demo at least there wasn't flush five so you might be remembering that.

    I didn't play the demo, but I'm sitting in the middle of a yellow deck 5 of a kind run at the moment, so we'll see if we can't do it again.

    Knocked out basically everything below a 9, and got two suits running, so hopefully..
    I probably need to aggregate the royals into a single rank too, instead of having like 6-of of each.
    .. should discard a royal flush first though.

    This was meant to be a $400 run.
    Been shifting Blueprint (round 1 shop) between the 1 in 2 2$ per face card, Hallucination and actual multipliers all game as required.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Yeah, okay.
    I must not have had the hand last time.

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    Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    It could've been that you got Eris in a challenge, but challenges don't unlock anything?

    I've set my personal largest hand record:
    7r9zowbnkab6.jpg
    It was done with the Plasma deck on White difficulty with the following degenerate combination of jokers:
    zhpksfm839xn.jpg
    It was the "Pairs give you chips" joker who had +30 chips on itself (I am playing on console).
    Scary face gives +30 chips per face card.
    Triboulet gives each King and Queen x2 Mult.
    The two-face joker retriggers all played face hands.
    Vagabond gives a Tarot card when you are at $3 or lower.

    I first got Vagabond, and then on the next blind there was a "Get cards and boosters free", so I skipped that one and it had a Spectral pack and the two-face card.
    Spectral gave me the legendary joker, and with a millisecond the two-face joker was bought.
    Scary face is a common joker so I met that one pretty quickly.
    "Pairs give you chips" is also common, and pretty neat for scoring some extra chips.

    I had been playing High Cards to get Vagabond Tarot cards, which allowed me to modify my deck considerably; in the end over 80% of my deck was Kings and Queens, all with the +10 chips enhancement.
    As a resulted I migrated from Flush to Flush House to Flush Five.
    Because this was the Plasma deck, I decided to consider chip enhancements more important than mult enhancements, and it worked.

    It was a very fun run, and actually mainly because I managed to transform my deck extremely. The insane mults and big numbers were an extra.

    And @cooljammer00 , congratulations on your first beaten run! I hope you've unlocked a few new jokers by doing that.

    Baseball joker is very powerful, and can make you pivot towards going for uncommon jokers. But remember to have either a really good "flat Mult" generator (like your Supernova), or have your favourite hand combination upgraded a lot via Planet cards

    PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited March 13
    Well, Blueprint/Business Card managed to get me to $400 on White stake/yellow deck, with 5 of a kind royals.
    That and Blueprint/Hallucination/lots of tarot cards.

    Wound up with 10+ Aces, tens, and about 8 each of Kings, Queens, Jacks because I hadn't quite consolidated them yet.
    And 30+ spades (for that unlock), most of the other 44 cards diamonds.

    Worked well, up until Ante 10, because I had lots of tarot cards in the shop (must've picked up the tarot++ voucher), and no jokers to replace Business Card and Hallucination with.
    And rotating the shop was doing bad things to my Bootstraps.

    discrider on
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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Won a run with 4^2 deck, where we're playing two pair, 4-bit joker, 4 jokers only.

    I'm finding Card Sharp is really good for allowing my jokers to build on two hands, rather than only blowing through blinds with one..
    But now that I think about it, I should be really juicing high cards on early hands to add to the cards, although the bus mult card makes that trickier.

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    Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    Was doing some of the challenges, and The Omelette challenge (don't earn money, start with 5 eggs) was doing my head in.

    And then a simple common Joker appeared and took all my worries away...
    nd4ylnnshic4.jpg

    The Fragile challenge is insanely fun(ny).
    All jokers/packs that can add/modify/remove enhancements are removed.
    You have a deck of 52 Glass cards.
    And two Eternal Negative Dice jokers, which make it so that when you play a glass card, it is guaranteed to break.
    Insanity ensues...

    PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    https://old.reddit.com/r/balatro/comments/1bebf1g/balatro_developer_ama_transcript/

    Ama from the Dev. Notably for me - balance changes are coming, especially around gold stake. This is great!

    As I've played more and watched skilled players like Jorbs have a go, some of my ruffled feathers have definitely settled. The game is still way too slot machine at gold stake, and if that can get sorted, it's got promise.

    Though I still want to see an expanded and refined shop (and polishing of the skip mechanic, and probably some love to the leveling hands mechanic so you can pivot easier)

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    https://old.reddit.com/r/balatro/comments/1bebf1g/balatro_developer_ama_transcript/

    Ama from the Dev. Notably for me - balance changes are coming, especially around gold stake. This is great!

    As I've played more and watched skilled players like Jorbs have a go, some of my ruffled feathers have definitely settled. The game is still way too slot machine at gold stake, and if that can get sorted, it's got promise.

    Though I still want to see an expanded and refined shop (and polishing of the skip mechanic, and probably some love to the leveling hands mechanic so you can pivot easier)
    That was a very enjoyable and informative read!

    Glad to see that the programmer decides to keep it their passion project!

    I would love for the shop to change so that you can have up to 3 booster packs, and a Freeze-ability would be nice, so that if you meet a very important joker or voucher, that you can keep it on hold for when you have the money to buy it. Because those Ante 1 Small Blind Skip-for-a-Polychrome are ridiculous.

    PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
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    cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    Looking for Balatro strategies, I ran across this Reddit page

    https://www.reddit.com/r/balatro/comments/1bbh75a/how_to_win_chips_and_influence_mult_a_thorough/

    First Tip - stop relying on Flushes. They're apparently deceptively hard to get and also there are no jokers that scale for Flushes the way you'd want them to.

    This may be fine general advice, but the session where I was getting scientific notation sized hand scores was doing flushes. It really just matters if you can get recursion xmult joker cards. Nothing else really matters.

    Types: Boom + Robo | Food: Sweet | Habitat: Plains
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Please tell me I'm not the only one who always double checks the text of the "convert left card into right card" Tarot card before hitting OK?.

    Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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    minor incidentminor incident expert in a dying field njRegistered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Please tell me I'm not the only one who always double checks the text of the "convert left card into right card" Tarot card before hitting OK?.

    Like eleven times before I confirm, yes.

    Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
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    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    edited March 14
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Please tell me I'm not the only one who always double checks the text of the "convert left card into right card" Tarot card before hitting OK?.

    So so so so many times. I am dyslexic so I go full "which one makes the L," a few times as well.
    cursedking wrote: »
    Looking for Balatro strategies, I ran across this Reddit page

    https://www.reddit.com/r/balatro/comments/1bbh75a/how_to_win_chips_and_influence_mult_a_thorough/

    First Tip - stop relying on Flushes. They're apparently deceptively hard to get and also there are no jokers that scale for Flushes the way you'd want them to.

    This may be fine general advice, but the session where I was getting scientific notation sized hand scores was doing flushes. It really just matters if you can get recursion xmult joker cards. Nothing else really matters.

    I think there is a disconnect for most of the advice where the Reddit main thoughts are looking to just squeak past 8 as opposed to seeing how deep a run you can make it. I prefer to push as far as you can myself, but it does not make sense from the completionist point of view.

    Edit: It also occurs to me that a lot of the games flaws are obscured heavily with the demo which is maybe something to look at. Many of the combos are great, but fragile so it is hard to grab in pieces. Hack, and Fibonacci dominate together. Separately both are a lot weaker. The full pool dilutes a lot of the fun combos. Makes me thing something like Joker packs for certain types of Jokers would improve the game dramatically.

    Gnizmo on
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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited March 14
    Hack is very strong, but I don't think it's specifically looking for Fibonacci.
    What it really wants is xMult per card played, so Ancient Joker, but I believe there are other ones that proc on suit.

    Hack also heavily inflates all the on play card effects, which makes the +4 Mult actually playable.
    (I'm 90% sure you'd rather +30 chips on cards to inflate the blue side of the equation, rather than +4 Mult on the often much larger mult side. But if Hack is driving the mult side exponential before chips come into play, then..)

    discrider on
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Hack also makes Gold and Red Seals even better.

    Hack red seal polychrome multi 5s are going to be some real bullshit.

    I actually wish the options to put seals and polychrome/foil etc on your playing cards were more accessible, as they are some of the more interesting things to play with.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Please tell me I'm not the only one who always double checks the text of the "convert left card into right card" Tarot card before hitting OK?.

    Like eleven times before I confirm, yes.
    And then still get it wrong about 10% of the time. Usually when it's the most convert greatness to trash moment possible.

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited March 14
    Hack + Wee joker in a deck that was like 30% 2s is responsible for my best run so far.

    Tofystedeth on
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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited March 15
    ..
    Pretty sure I'm wrong, and hack also doesn't make +4 Mult on the card worth it, and you want +30 chips instead.
    Pretty sure Heirophant > Empress always.

    discrider on
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    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    edited March 15
    discrider wrote: »
    Hack is very strong, but I don't think it's specifically looking for Fibonacci.
    What it really wants is xMult per card played, so Ancient Joker, but I believe there are other ones that proc on suit.

    Hack also heavily inflates all the on play card effects, which makes the +4 Mult actually playable.
    (I'm 90% sure you'd rather +30 chips on cards to inflate the blue side of the equation, rather than +4 Mult on the often much larger mult side. But if Hack is driving the mult side exponential before chips come into play, then..)

    Oh for sure it has other Jokers it can combo with, but it was the handy example I remembered from the demo. Hack has uses outside of it, but you really gotta work to make it happen without a companion Joker. Hiker, for example, goes absolutely nuts with it. You are still fishing to get some stuff together be it Arcana cards that work with it, or another Joker being my broader point.

    Edit: Baseball Card might be a better example where the demo version had a lot more uncommons you would want to stick to due to the limited pool of rares and the like.

    Gnizmo on
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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Hack is definitely a build-around card.
    Extremely powerful in the right build, but doesn't do much itself.
    But I don't think that's a problem.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited March 15
    Currently doing Midas/Vampire.
    Midas/Golden Ticket/Vampire certainly doesn't work the way it should have (Vamp should trigger on card play, in joker order, instead of all at once before play).
    I'm going to have to find something other than Bootstraps perhaps.

    Oh well. At least I unlocked and discovered Golden Ticket this run.
    Trying to do no straights and pairs, but I dropped the pairs because blackboard did me in.

    discrider on
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    Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    Trying to do no straights and pairs, but I dropped the pairs because blackboard did me in.
    Checkered Deck (the heart/spade one) is excellent for trying to get the no-straights and the no-pairs unlocks, as you can mostly flush all the time.
    If you get a +1 hand size voucher or joker, there is a reasonably big chance to have a flush each hand.
    Just remember to play High Cards instead if you run out of discards.

    And yes, the play-no-flush joker was one of the later jokers I unlocked, why do you ask? :wink:

    PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
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    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    Trying to do no straights and pairs, but I dropped the pairs because blackboard did me in.
    Checkered Deck (the heart/spade one) is excellent for trying to get the no-straights and the no-pairs unlocks, as you can mostly flush all the time.
    If you get a +1 hand size voucher or joker, there is a reasonably big chance to have a flush each hand.
    Just remember to play High Cards instead if you run out of discards.

    And yes, the play-no-flush joker was one of the later jokers I unlocked, why do you ask? :wink:

    With +1 hand size the checkered deck will give you a flush every time. It does it most of the time without that as well, but can end in an even split. Unless you are talking about the gold stakes which feels a little hardcore for unlocks.

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    Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    discrider wrote: »
    Trying to do no straights and pairs, but I dropped the pairs because blackboard did me in.
    Checkered Deck (the heart/spade one) is excellent for trying to get the no-straights and the no-pairs unlocks, as you can mostly flush all the time.
    If you get a +1 hand size voucher or joker, there is a reasonably big chance to have a flush each hand.
    Just remember to play High Cards instead if you run out of discards.

    And yes, the play-no-flush joker was one of the later jokers I unlocked, why do you ask? :wink:

    With +1 hand size the checkered deck will give you a flush every time. It does it most of the time without that as well, but can end in an even split. Unless you are talking about the gold stakes which feels a little hardcore for unlocks.
    Yeah, but I've become a little paranoid after dying so many times because of the final hand in the Ante 8 boss :wink:

    That why I don't take -1 hand size penalties when flushing. It's just too dangerous. (but then again orange+ stakes are very dangerous in itself).

    PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    ..
    Pretty sure I'm wrong, and hack also doesn't make +4 Mult on the card worth it, and you want +30 chips instead.
    Pretty sure Heirophant > Empress always.

    It depends on what the values of each are before you add your bonuses in. Since it's just two operands with a straight multiplication, the percentage you increase one side is the same as the percentage the total is increased.

    E.g. 100 chips and 10 mult as your base values for that hand, scoring 1000.
    Add 30 chips and you 130x10 = 1300
    30% more chips going in, 30% more going out.
    Add 4 mult instead
    100x14 = 1400
    40% more mult in, 40% more chips out.

    Say your starting values were 100 and 20
    The same increases give you results of 2600 and 2400, having the addition of chips be more effective than mult.

    It's basically a little deceptive because you see more things with big chips bonuses vs smaller mult bonuses. But chips also starts bigger and cards provide inherent chips bonuses, so the main thing is the relative increase of either side of the equation.

    xMult doesn't matter for this because there's no difference between
    200 x 15 x 2 x 2
    (200 x 15) x (2 x 2)
    (200 x 2) x (2 x 15)
    etc because it's all multiplication.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    It just seems like, mid and late game, when you start applying buffs to cards on mass, the mult is always much much bigger than your chips from your jokers no matter what.
    And early game, you're coasting on whatever the game hands to you.

    So there's not any reason to waste upgrades getting +Mult on your cards.
    Especially as there does not appear to be any case where putting +Mult on cards is going to lead to any specific pay off.

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    Airking850Airking850 Ottawa, ONRegistered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Please tell me I'm not the only one who always double checks the text of the "convert left card into right card" Tarot card before hitting OK?.

    After bricking a few runs to backwards deaths, the correct is seared into my brain, so I don't need to check!

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    AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    It just seems like, mid and late game, when you start applying buffs to cards on mass, the mult is always much much bigger than your chips from your jokers no matter what.
    And early game, you're coasting on whatever the game hands to you.

    So there's not any reason to waste upgrades getting +Mult on your cards.
    Especially as there does not appear to be any case where putting +Mult on cards is going to lead to any specific pay off.

    +Mult on your cards is useful when you're dealing with a bunch of xMult bonuses that apply early (eg, steel cards, jokers that makes cards in hand xMult)

    oi you have three steels in hand but your mult for the hand type is, say 15, it only goes up to about 50 before going to the jokers

    if you had a couple of +Mult enhanced cards in your hand, now it goes up to 78 before hitting the jokers, 8 mult became 27

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    It’s situational for sure. If you have a pretty easy time building insane mult, then you start looking at your chip side of the equation and vice versa.

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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    That AMA is really good, because he mentions several times that he made a game he likes and thinks is fun and lots of other people seem to agree, but he can't just try to make everyone happy so he's just going to focus on himself

    He's going to patch in a way to turn off the swimmy background image, which is giving the question asker and my friend motion sickness. Doesn't bother me, but I want my friend to be able to play this game.

    He also mentions something that I heard the Remap Radio crew talk about, which about whether the game should just tell you what your hand will score before you play it so you can optimize. The dev said he probably won't patch in something that just gives you a hard number on how much your hand will score, because the fuzziness is the point. Not only is the point of the game the thrill of "maybe this will work?!" but also as he points out, a Joker like the Smeared Joker gives a random mult, so he can't really tell you what you will score until you play your hand.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Misprint gives the random Mult. Smeared Joker makes Clubs and Spades count as each other; and Hearts and Diamonds count as each other

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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    i def have won rounds with a "well, close my eyes and send it" and won by single digits when i didn't think i had any shot.

    you can kinda get a feel for the shape of your score but i do think the exact number would be bad design for the type of game that was made.

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    cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    i would like an alternate test round where you can juice certain metrics just so you can see how high you can get the number/theorycraft. make the score not count/never unlocks stuff but just let me have a much higher chance of getting the cards that I think would let me beat ante 16

    Types: Boom + Robo | Food: Sweet | Habitat: Plains
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    i def have won rounds with a "well, close my eyes and send it" and won by single digits when i didn't think i had any shot.

    you can kinda get a feel for the shape of your score but i do think the exact number would be bad design for the type of game that was made.

    I do think that certain fairly static things like number of chips added by card via normal counting could be added to a preview mode. It's information that already exists and can be factored in. It's not always important, but there's definitely times where I've flipped back and forth between a couple potential hands trying to figure if hand + cards chips on one is more than the other.

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