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G&T open discussion thread

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Posts

  • edited July 2006
    Captain K wrote:
    EDIT: Also, having a tight-knit community built up in each of the megathreads makes it even more difficult for the average casual forumer to get any use out of them, because, as Magus` just said above me, the megathreads are chock full of chat-style filler posts.
    These "chat style filler" posts do not exist in the good megathreads. They do in the PS3 and Wii threads, because there's not enough news to justify their existence, and therefore they're worthless. Isn't there some way to please both crowds? I know just about every regular of the DS thread would hate to see it go. Every bit of news broken up into a new thread might be convenient for every casual browser, but it would be worse for us, and creating a "treehouse" forum is never the solution.

    Kevar on
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited July 2006
    Captain K wrote:
    Orikae, don't say "insidious". That makes it sound like it's intentional on the part of the people in the sub-communities.

    No, the chat thread community is not exclusive. No, the megathread communities are not exclusive. These negative qualities that I'm talking about aren't a function of the people who are part of these communities, they're just the result of the organizational structure that has evolved over time in G&T.

    What makes the organizational structure so exclusive? Are people seriously scared of big numbers? Add a notice to the rules "don't be afraid of searching for stuff or simply asking in the mega-thread." That should clear that right up.

    Mai-Kero on
  • MonoxideMonoxide Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2006
    Imran wrote:
    So, we have anecdotal evidence for the existence of them and anecdotal evidence against their existence.

    Thus...the obvious answer is take them away because some people would rather have 80 threads than 80 posts? Okay then.

    Here's the difference. Most of the people that run the forum are invested in the 80 thread camp. There's a lot more that goes into decisions that we make than the evidence given out. What we have to do, since we moderate a forum and not a group of threads, is think about what lasting impact this might have on the forum as a whole.

    So, when we decide to take away or leave in, say, the DS thread, we consider every tiny piece of the forum that could be effected by it and the outcome of it. I could make you a flow chart if you'd like, but basically the chain of events, not including the "people dicking around and doing doing stupid sig protests that just makes them look ignorant" wildcard, should be as such:
    • DS thread leaves -> Forumers need outlet for DS info and gaming on
    • Game On thread is created, with updated info post for first post -> gaming on is done here, DS thread still exists in a new form to organize games for people to play
    • Game On thread begins to become new chat thread during news downtime -> moderators react and keep it on topic
    • People begin to post new threads -> Threads on the forum get pushed down and cause bustle on the front page
    • Front page bustle -> Less popular threads being pushed down
    • Less popular threads being pushed down -> More people being exposed to a larger variety of popular discussion topics :^:
    • OR: Less popular threads being pushed down -> Less people being exposed to less popular but still valid discussion topics :v:
    • OR: Overwhelming amount of DS info floods frontpage -> We reinstate DS thread

    See how it either flourishes or comes around full circle? That's just the thread cycle. It still effects the forum overall, and the individual users, which would involve me writing seperate long posts. Of course, anything could happen, but I think I covered most of the likely possibilities for something I wrote up in 5 minutes.

    Monoxide on
  • edited July 2006
    It seems the decision has pretty much already been made, but I'm adamant in the belief that we need the DS thread to cover the news that isn't threadworthy. I'm at least hopeful that you're willing to reinstate the DS thread if it doesn't work out.

    Question: Will the "[Game On] DS" thread allow light news and discussion topics, or will those be completely routed to other threads? Sort of like a litethread instead of a megathread, pun not intended?

    Kevar on
  • stiliststilist Registered User regular
    edited July 2006
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Captain K wrote:
    Orikae, don't say "insidious". That makes it sound like it's intentional on the part of the people in the sub-communities.

    No, the chat thread community is not exclusive. No, the megathread communities are not exclusive. These negative qualities that I'm talking about aren't a function of the people who are part of these communities, they're just the result of the organizational structure that has evolved over time in G&T.
    What makes the organizational structure so exclusive? Are people seriously scared of big numbers? Add a notice to the rules "don't be afraid of searching for stuff or simply asking in the mega-thread." That should clear that right up.
    You're looking at it from the viewpoint of somebody who frequents G&T, so of course you're not going to see the issue here. Try considering it from the outsider's view of things: there's a 55-page thread about the DS, which has the possibility of holding the answer to your question. You aren't aware of the fact that people don't mind answering redundant questions, so you're left with the following options:

    - Read the entire thing and all semi-related threads
    - Post a possibly redundant question, hoping to not get flamed
    - Read a little bit, find nothing you're looking for, and try to find the information elsewhere on the web (or simply never find out)

    I don't know about you, but I'd probably choose the last one.

    stilist on
    I poop things on my site and twitter
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited July 2006
    I being a standard forum browser, would probably look for a search button.

    syndalis on
    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • Eliot DuboisEliot Dubois Registered User
    edited July 2006
    stilist wrote:
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Captain K wrote:
    Orikae, don't say "insidious". That makes it sound like it's intentional on the part of the people in the sub-communities.

    No, the chat thread community is not exclusive. No, the megathread communities are not exclusive. These negative qualities that I'm talking about aren't a function of the people who are part of these communities, they're just the result of the organizational structure that has evolved over time in G&T.
    What makes the organizational structure so exclusive? Are people seriously scared of big numbers? Add a notice to the rules "don't be afraid of searching for stuff or simply asking in the mega-thread." That should clear that right up.
    You're looking at it from the viewpoint of somebody who frequents G&T, so of course you're not going to see the issue here. Try considering it from the outsider's view of things: there's a 55-page thread about the DS, which has the possibility of holding the answer to your question. You aren't aware of the fact that people don't mind answering redundant questions, so you're left with the following options:

    - Read the entire thing and all semi-related threads
    - Post a possibly redundant question, hoping to not get flamed
    - Read a little bit, find nothing you're looking for, and try to find the information elsewhere on the web (or simply never find out)

    I don't know about you, but I'd probably choose the last one.

    That's why you could put a statement in the rules thread. "Feel free to ask questions" or some such. There is a post like that at the top of Graphic Violence, a place with some rather "cliquey" views. People who don't read the rules before posting or lurking a bit get what they deserve.

    Eliot Dubois on
    laliban.jpg
  • edited July 2006
    stilist wrote:
    - Post a possibly redundant question, hoping to not get flamed
    I have never seen anyone flame someone else for asking a question related to DS news in the DS thread.

    Kevar on
  • Eliot DuboisEliot Dubois Registered User
    edited July 2006
    Kevar wrote:
    stilist wrote:
    - Post a possibly redundant question, hoping to not get flamed
    I have never seen anyone flame someone else for asking a question related to DS news in the DS thread.

    In fact, the last time I remember this happening frequently was right before the DS megathread showed up. :roll:

    Eliot Dubois on
    laliban.jpg
  • MonoxideMonoxide Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2006
    Kevar wrote:
    It seems the decision has pretty much already been made, but I'm adamant in the belief that we need the DS thread to cover the news that isn't threadworthy. I'm at least hopeful that you're willing to reinstate the DS thread if it doesn't work out.

    I'd be more than happy to reinstate it if it doesn't work out. I also wouldn't say the decision has been made, but it's something we're seriously considering. Trust me, I wouldn't let the megathreads get completely fucked over, since the 360 thread has been an extremely valuable resource to me personally, and they do fit in the overall G&T scheme of things.

    Monoxide on
  • Eliot DuboisEliot Dubois Registered User
    edited July 2006
    Monoxide wrote:
    Kevar wrote:
    It seems the decision has pretty much already been made, but I'm adamant in the belief that we need the DS thread to cover the news that isn't threadworthy. I'm at least hopeful that you're willing to reinstate the DS thread if it doesn't work out.

    I'd be more than happy to reinstate it if it doesn't work out. I also wouldn't say the decision has been made, but it's something we're seriously considering. Trust me, I wouldn't let the megathreads get completely fucked over, since the 360 thread has been an extremely valuable resource to me personally, and they do fit in the overall G&T scheme of things.

    Trust you, you say? Well, allright, I feel as though I can trust some of the mods like you and Captain K, as you are stand up fellows. I also know that if it doesn't work things will be made to work or go back the way that they were. If you are going to make any major changes though, the sooner the better, also, could you try and keep us well informed of any major changes BEFORE they happen? It's a lot easier to accept it that way.

    Eliot Dubois on
    laliban.jpg
  • MonoxideMonoxide Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2006
    Monoxide wrote:
    Kevar wrote:
    It seems the decision has pretty much already been made, but I'm adamant in the belief that we need the DS thread to cover the news that isn't threadworthy. I'm at least hopeful that you're willing to reinstate the DS thread if it doesn't work out.

    I'd be more than happy to reinstate it if it doesn't work out. I also wouldn't say the decision has been made, but it's something we're seriously considering. Trust me, I wouldn't let the megathreads get completely fucked over, since the 360 thread has been an extremely valuable resource to me personally, and they do fit in the overall G&T scheme of things.

    Trust you, you say? Well, allright, I feel as though I can trust some of the mods like you and Captain K, as you are stand up fellows. I also know that if it doesn't work things will be made to work or go back the way that they were. If you are going to make any major changes though, the sooner the better, also, could you try and keep us well informed of any major changes BEFORE they happen? It's a lot easier to accept it that way.

    Of course. Pulling the carpet out from anyone's feet is probably the worst way we could go about doing anything. That's the last thing anyone wants to do here.

    I know a statement like "Trust me." is probably kind of hard to swallow, and if you don't trust me, well, that's understandable. I was sort of addressing those of the 360 thread there, because they know I post in it and game with them and whatnot. But, I know the DS thread has the same type of community, and I wouldn't want to break that up.

    Monoxide on
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited July 2006
    Can I just ask what is so horribly awful about letting the forumers decide what's the best way to run the forum where they post a hundred times more often than some of the mods?

    Mai-Kero on
  • Eliot DuboisEliot Dubois Registered User
    edited July 2006
    Monoxide wrote:
    Monoxide wrote:
    Kevar wrote:
    It seems the decision has pretty much already been made, but I'm adamant in the belief that we need the DS thread to cover the news that isn't threadworthy. I'm at least hopeful that you're willing to reinstate the DS thread if it doesn't work out.

    I'd be more than happy to reinstate it if it doesn't work out. I also wouldn't say the decision has been made, but it's something we're seriously considering. Trust me, I wouldn't let the megathreads get completely fucked over, since the 360 thread has been an extremely valuable resource to me personally, and they do fit in the overall G&T scheme of things.

    Trust you, you say? Well, allright, I feel as though I can trust some of the mods like you and Captain K, as you are stand up fellows. I also know that if it doesn't work things will be made to work or go back the way that they were. If you are going to make any major changes though, the sooner the better, also, could you try and keep us well informed of any major changes BEFORE they happen? It's a lot easier to accept it that way.

    Of course. Pulling the carpet out from anyone's feet is probably the worst way we could go about doing anything. That's the last thing anyone wants to do here.

    I know a statement like "Trust me." is probably kind of hard to swallow, and if you don't trust me, well, that's understandable. I was sort of addressing those of the 360 thread there, because they know I post in it and game with them and whatnot. But, I know the DS thread has the same type of community, and I wouldn't want to break that up.

    Well, I am also the latchkey kid of the 360 forum, posting about kicking 'Fizz's ass in Street Fighter 2 when it comes out in 2013.

    and with that, I am giving up on this discussion for the night. I like the megathreads the way they are but I can go for some change as well, just do it soon/keep everyone up to speed.

    Eliot Dubois on
    laliban.jpg
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2006
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Can I just ask what is so horribly awful about letting the forumers decide what's the best way to run the forum where they post a hundred times more often than some of the mods?
    Sure!

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2006
    All right, that was mean.

    This board is a dictatorship, because often the people who are posting a hundred times per day are too close to what is happening to be able to decide how to administrate it effectively.

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • TDLTDL ClubPA, __BANNED USERS
    edited July 2006
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Can I just ask what is so horribly awful about letting the forumers decide what's the best way to run the forum where they post a hundred times more often than some of the mods?

    Because it isn't a god damned democracy. This forum belongs to Gabe and Tycho, who appointed Admins to run the place for them. The Admins appointed Mods to enforce their rules and regulations.

    That is how it works, if the leadership changes things you accept it or leave. Buy your own forum if you want to be in charge.

    TDL on
    Meet me on my vast veranda
    My sweet, untouched Miranda
    And while the seagulls are crying
    We fall but our souls are flying
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited July 2006
    TDL wrote:
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Can I just ask what is so horribly awful about letting the forumers decide what's the best way to run the forum where they post a hundred times more often than some of the mods?

    Because it isn't a god damned democracy. This forum belongs to Gabe and Tycho, who appointed Admins to run the place for them. The Admins appointed Mods to enforce their rules and regulations.

    That is how it works, if the leadership changes things you accept it or leave. Buy your own forum if you want to be in charge.

    How was whippy selected as an admin?
    All right, that was mean.

    This board is a dictatorship, because often the people who are posting a hundred times per day are too close to what is happening to be able to decide how to administrate it effectively.

    What do you mean too close to what's happening? We care too much, so we can't be allowed to decide it? There's is a 0% chance any of the mods are impartial. They post as much as some forumers, just in a different sub-forum. It's like letting people from GameFAQs decide what's best for CNN.

    Mai-Kero on
  • MonoxideMonoxide Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2006
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Can I just ask what is so horribly awful about letting the forumers decide what's the best way to run the forum where they post a hundred times more often than some of the mods?

    Don't you moderate the Ventrilo servers?

    Why don't you let the users do it?

    Monoxide on
  • TDLTDL ClubPA, __BANNED USERS
    edited July 2006
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    TDL wrote:
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Can I just ask what is so horribly awful about letting the forumers decide what's the best way to run the forum where they post a hundred times more often than some of the mods?

    Because it isn't a god damned democracy. This forum belongs to Gabe and Tycho, who appointed Admins to run the place for them. The Admins appointed Mods to enforce their rules and regulations.

    That is how it works, if the leadership changes things you accept it or leave. Buy your own forum if you want to be in charge.

    How was whippy selected as an admin?
    All right, that was mean.

    This board is a dictatorship, because often the people who are posting a hundred times per day are too close to what is happening to be able to decide how to administrate it effectively.

    What do you mean too close to what's happening? We care too much, so we can't be allowed to decide it? There's is a 0% chance any of the mods are impartial. They post as much as some forumers, just in a different sub-forum.

    The other admins selected him.

    TDL on
    Meet me on my vast veranda
    My sweet, untouched Miranda
    And while the seagulls are crying
    We fall but our souls are flying
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited July 2006
    Monoxide wrote:
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Can I just ask what is so horribly awful about letting the forumers decide what's the best way to run the forum where they post a hundred times more often than some of the mods?

    Don't you moderate the Ventrilo servers?

    Why don't you let the users do it?

    I'm talking about policy decisions and not enforcement of rules. We've never made some arbitrary change that doesn't make any sense and refused to explain it on the Ventrilo server.

    Mai-Kero on
  • RehabRehab Registered User regular
    edited July 2006
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Can I just ask what is so horribly awful about letting the forumers decide what's the best way to run the forum where they post a hundred times more often than some of the mods?

    You said that as if all the forumers think together as one being of consciousness that come together as one opinion instead of thousands of individual opinions trying to shout over all of the others to be heard. This thread kind of shows that we all have different ideas on how this should be done but the mods really do not because they are much better organized and have discussed this much more thoroughly. The way Monoxide stated that we might try this and if it doesn't work go back to how things were seems like a pretty good and reasonable solution to me.

    Rehab on
    NNID: Rehab0
  • edited July 2006
    Mai-Kero is like a shark. He just .. keeps .. making analogies.

    Kevar on
  • Non-Existent FreezerNon-Existent Freezer Registered User
    edited July 2006
    Rehab wrote:
    The way Monoxide stated that we might try this and if it doesn't work go back to how things were seems like a pretty good and reasonable solution to me.
    :^:
    Agreed!

    Non-Existent Freezer on
    g2kc7.png
  • RehabRehab Registered User regular
    edited July 2006
    I know guys, one mega thread to rule them all. All system news and game on material in one convenient thread!

    Rehab on
    NNID: Rehab0
  • MonoxideMonoxide Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2006
    Man, you guys thought that if we did this and it didn't work out after a few weeks we would just let it ride?

    No wonder so many people were pissed off.

    Monoxide on
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited July 2006
    Monoxide wrote:
    Man, you guys thought that if we did this and it didn't work out after a few weeks we would just let it ride?

    No wonder so many people were pissed off.

    Well then do it already!

    Some of us are convinced it won't work, if you just do it now then we get proven right, or you get proven right, but either way we don't fucking argue about it for a week.

    Mai-Kero on
  • MonoxideMonoxide Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2006
    Rehab wrote:
    I know guys, one mega thread to rule them all. All system news and game on material in one convenient thread!

    Brilliant. G&T will now exist as a thread inside of SE++

    Monoxide on
  • GimeCGimeC Registered User
    edited July 2006
    Rehab wrote:
    I know guys, one mega thread to rule them all. All system news and game on material in one convenient thread!

    Make GnT one thread on SE++. :wink:

    GimeC on
  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited July 2006
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Can I just ask what is so horribly awful about letting the forumers decide what's the best way to run the forum where they post a hundred times more often than some of the mods?
    Sure!
    See this right here is a big part of the problem.

    It isn't the changes that are bothering me, personally. I don't like megathreads, and I don't mind posting in SE++, or elsewhere.

    The problem is, a lot of the mods aren't being civil. We don't need you guys to be nice all the time. But I would really appreciate it if you were civil, and respectful.

    Most of the forumers aren't children. You'll be given the same respect that you give us.

    deadonthestreet on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2006
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Can I just ask what is so horribly awful about letting the forumers decide what's the best way to run the forum where they post a hundred times more often than some of the mods?
    Sure!
    See this right here is a big part of the problem.

    It isn't the changes that are bothering me, personally. I don't like megathreads, and I don't mind posting in SE++, or elsewhere.

    The problem is, a lot of the mods aren't being civil. We don't need you guys to be nice all the time. But I would really appreciate it if you were civil, and respectful.

    Most of the forumers aren't children. You'll be given the same respect that you give us.
    dots i posted right after that apologizing and giving a civil answer

    if that's not being polite i don't know what is

    (durr hurr orikae you don't know what being polite is :V)

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • RehabRehab Registered User regular
    edited July 2006
    Awesome guys, I think that idea would work quite well. :^:

    Rehab on
    NNID: Rehab0
  • edited July 2006
    Monoxide wrote:
    Man, you guys thought that if we did this and it didn't work out after a few weeks we would just let it ride?

    No wonder so many people were pissed off.
    That, and I was concerned with the communities being broken up, since (as I mentioned so many times) I frequent the DS thread. Anyway, I guess we'll just see where it goes from here.

    Kevar on
  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited July 2006
    dots i posted right after that apologizing and giving a civil answer

    if that's not being polite i don't know what is
    Not making the not-so-nice post in the first place.

    Though I do appreciate the apology.

    deadonthestreet on
  • RehabRehab Registered User regular
    edited July 2006
    I'll go ahead and start the G&T thread that will exist within SE. Alert the other forumers and wish me luck.

    Rehab on
    NNID: Rehab0
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited July 2006
    Rehab wrote:
    I'll go ahead and start the G&T thread that will exist within SE. Alert the other forumers and wish me luck.

    Don't you already post more in SE++ than GnT?

    Mai-Kero on
  • MonoxideMonoxide Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2006
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Rehab wrote:
    I'll go ahead and start the G&T thread that will exist within SE. Alert the other forumers and wish me luck.

    Don't you already post more in SE++ than GnT?

    Does that really matter? We're all PA forumers, here, and Rehab does a good amount of posting in G&T, too.

    Did you know TFS was once a die-hard G&T regular? I know most people repressed the horrible memories of having him around all the time, but it's true. hi2u tfs

    Monoxide on
  • RehabRehab Registered User regular
    edited July 2006
    The Far Side is going to make an excellent G&T mod.

    Rehab on
    NNID: Rehab0
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited July 2006
    Monoxide wrote:
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Rehab wrote:
    I'll go ahead and start the G&T thread that will exist within SE. Alert the other forumers and wish me luck.

    Don't you already post more in SE++ than GnT?

    Does that really matter? We're all PA forumers, here, and Rehab does a good amount of posting in G&T, too.

    Did you know TFS was once a die-hard G&T regular? I know most people repressed the horrible memories of having him around all the time, but it's true. hi2u tfs

    That's why TFS is such a dickwad. He started posting in SE++, and constantly said how much GnT sucks in an attempt to get people to like him more. In the transition period, he would still post in GnT. Right after saying it sucks. It takes a real tool to do that.

    And Rehab created a GNT Chat thread in SE++ would be like anyone else from SE++ creating a GnT chat thread in SE++.

    Mai-Kero on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2006
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Monoxide wrote:
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Rehab wrote:
    I'll go ahead and start the G&T thread that will exist within SE. Alert the other forumers and wish me luck.

    Don't you already post more in SE++ than GnT?

    Does that really matter? We're all PA forumers, here, and Rehab does a good amount of posting in G&T, too.

    Did you know TFS was once a die-hard G&T regular? I know most people repressed the horrible memories of having him around all the time, but it's true. hi2u tfs

    That's why TFS is such a dickwad. He started posting in SE++, and constantly said how much GnT sucks in an attempt to get people to like him more. In the transition period, he would still post in GnT. Right after saying it sucks. It takes a real tool to do that.

    And Rehab created a GNT Chat thread in SE++ would be like anyone else from SE++ creating a GnT chat thread in SE++.
    if i'm not mistaken you have made several posts in SE today after expounding on its shittiness and elitism

    Orikaeshigitae on
This discussion has been closed.