The tank characters do wide sweeping attacks that pull in enemies.
The DPS juggle chain enemies that they separate off the main groups.
The healers go around solving puzzles to gather healing orbs to heal everyone.
Nah might as well just ditch the trifecta entirely, it is old and tired.
Everyone should just be different flavors of DPS and you should be able to clear any encounter with a team entirely composed of one class. Monster Hunter style.
except gw2 did this and when everyone just does the most optimal dps its boring as fuck
Also, to me, everyone just being the optimal dps, optimal healer, and optimal tank isn't any more interesting than everyone being the optimal DPS.
But when I have the "trifecta," I can do tanking or healing when I get bored of doing DPS.
If everything is DPS, then I don't have much recourse if I get bored of doing DPS.
I'd say the different weapons in Monster Hunter are just as different as switching to a different trifecta role in a standard MMO.
Mixing focus equally between min maxing of character stats/customization and mastery of play is a REAL fine line to walk, it can easily be mixing oil and water IMO.
Because you can end up half assing both.
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The tank characters do wide sweeping attacks that pull in enemies.
The DPS juggle chain enemies that they separate off the main groups.
The healers go around solving puzzles to gather healing orbs to heal everyone.
Nah might as well just ditch the trifecta entirely, it is old and tired.
Everyone should just be different flavors of DPS and you should be able to clear any encounter with a team entirely composed of one class. Monster Hunter style.
except gw2 did this and when everyone just does the most optimal dps its boring as fuck
Rift kinda got close to this, class roles were still defined but every class could spec to fill 2 or 3 roles and everybody could have 3+ specs set up that they could switch as needed
The tank characters do wide sweeping attacks that pull in enemies.
The DPS juggle chain enemies that they separate off the main groups.
The healers go around solving puzzles to gather healing orbs to heal everyone.
Nah might as well just ditch the trifecta entirely, it is old and tired.
Everyone should just be different flavors of DPS and you should be able to clear any encounter with a team entirely composed of one class. Monster Hunter style.
except gw2 did this and when everyone just does the most optimal dps its boring as fuck
Also, to me, everyone just being the optimal dps, optimal healer, and optimal tank isn't any more interesting than everyone being the optimal DPS.
except in any good mmo there isn't optimal tank or dps or healer, there are different types of all of them and they interact differently based on group size and make up and encounter and gear levels etc.
but when you have a gw2 system where its "ok we need x amount of healing so everyone put this skill on your bar and now everyone just use this weapon set and class because it does the most damage" its boring as fuck
The tank characters do wide sweeping attacks that pull in enemies.
The DPS juggle chain enemies that they separate off the main groups.
The healers go around solving puzzles to gather healing orbs to heal everyone.
Nah might as well just ditch the trifecta entirely, it is old and tired.
Everyone should just be different flavors of DPS and you should be able to clear any encounter with a team entirely composed of one class. Monster Hunter style.
except gw2 did this and when everyone just does the most optimal dps its boring as fuck
Just don't surface any numbers.
Bam problem solved mail me a check.
monster hunter progression is entirely gear based
for that to work in a large, open world mmo setting where your playing the same character for hundreds of hours, you'd either need an absolutely massive amount of content or make it not an mmo
Monster hunter also isn't exactly a total character action game.
Also isn't JUST about big numbers.
It's about going in prepared, with the right equipment for the job.
The tank characters do wide sweeping attacks that pull in enemies.
The DPS juggle chain enemies that they separate off the main groups.
The healers go around solving puzzles to gather healing orbs to heal everyone.
Nah might as well just ditch the trifecta entirely, it is old and tired.
Everyone should just be different flavors of DPS and you should be able to clear any encounter with a team entirely composed of one class. Monster Hunter style.
except gw2 did this and when everyone just does the most optimal dps its boring as fuck
Also, to me, everyone just being the optimal dps, optimal healer, and optimal tank isn't any more interesting than everyone being the optimal DPS.
except in any good mmo there isn't optimal tank or dps or healer, there are different types of all of them and they interact differently based on group size and make up and encounter and gear levels etc.
but when you have a gw2 system where its "ok we need x amount of healing so everyone put this skill on your bar and now everyone just use this weapon set and class because it does the most damage" its boring as fuck
Also, even soloing GW2 just wasn't much fun for me.
The story instances can be brutally hard, and the overworlds are filled with enemies that can pretty easily kill if you accidentally pull two or more of them (which kind of discouraged me from exploring the maps).
Make sure your correct HoTs and buffs are up and spam your most mana efficient heal that will keep people from dying for the current amount of damaging incoming, for the most part.
Pretty much the same as a DPS making sure their DoTs and buffs are up while you spam your best damage move for the current phase of the fight.
The tank characters do wide sweeping attacks that pull in enemies.
The DPS juggle chain enemies that they separate off the main groups.
The healers go around solving puzzles to gather healing orbs to heal everyone.
Nah might as well just ditch the trifecta entirely, it is old and tired.
Everyone should just be different flavors of DPS and you should be able to clear any encounter with a team entirely composed of one class. Monster Hunter style.
except gw2 did this and when everyone just does the most optimal dps its boring as fuck
Also, to me, everyone just being the optimal dps, optimal healer, and optimal tank isn't any more interesting than everyone being the optimal DPS.
except in any good mmo there isn't optimal tank or dps or healer, there are different types of all of them and they interact differently based on group size and make up and encounter and gear levels etc.
but when you have a gw2 system where its "ok we need x amount of healing so everyone put this skill on your bar and now everyone just use this weapon set and class because it does the most damage" its boring as fuck
Also, even soloing GW2 just wasn't much fun for me.
The story instances can be brutally hard, and the overworlds are filled with enemies that can pretty easily kill if you accidentally pull two or more of them (which kind of discouraged me from exploring the maps).
the limited movesets in gw2 is what bored me. why give me tons of skills if i can use like, 5? if its #esports, i don't give a shit, and if its for pve, everyone just uses the 5 best skills because there is only 1 role to fill
Make sure your correct HoTs and buffs are up and spam your most mana efficient heal that will keep people from dying for the current amount of damaging incoming, for the most part.
Pretty much the same as a DPS making sure their DoTs and buffs are up while you spam your best damage move for the current phase of the fight.
well i mean you can simplify it to "just do the best possible thing in every situation" and claim its a mindless rotation but i could say that your dps rotation in bayonetta is "do the most damage to enemies and don't get hit"
Make sure your correct HoTs and buffs are up and spam your most mana efficient heal that will keep people from dying for the current amount of damaging incoming, for the most part.
Pretty much the same as a DPS making sure their DoTs and buffs are up while you spam your best damage move for the current phase of the fight.
Yeah, again, this is not at all the experience I've had with FF14 healing.
It's kind of boring early on when you don't have many skills. But when you start getting into the level 30's, there basically is no healing rotation. You have toolbox of skills that are specialized for certain situations, and a huge part of being a good healer is recognizing not only which skill to use but also when to use it and who to use it on when everyone is taking damage.
And since everything is on a 2.5 second global cooldown, each choice matters. A lot can change in just under 3 seconds.
when i'm thinking of a raid-style boss for a CAG MMO, i'm picturing giant monsters, like one of the bosses in bayonetta, where everyone is climbing on it and doing sick ass combos and shit
and thinking on it, the comparisons to my ideal CAG MMO and GW2 are absolutely apt. as are the comparions to monster hunter, to a degree. but the biggest, fundamental failing of GW2 is that there's no mechanics. every boss is an absolute spam fest, where you just hit v when the red circle appears below you, and that's a problem. a CAG needs mechanics, and if you just look at revengeance, or bayonetta, or dmc, i don't think it'd be hard to adapt those systems to accomodate 10 or so players. you don't need tanks or healers, but you need each player to be doing SOMETHING, ANYTHING that isn't identical to what the other player is doing.
and, at the same time, yes, there would definitely be classes. dante/vergil is a good comparison for sure, because vergil plays way different from dante, and they both play drastically different from bayonetta. coming up with 4 or 5 different movesets would be rad. and maybe they could have cross-move type stuff like ffxiv does, i don't know, like maybe you have one class that's very ground focused, and by leveling up as a dante, they learn a launcher. or a class that's more burly and has longer, heavier attacks, but can learn a quick opener by leveling up as vergil.
Make sure your correct HoTs and buffs are up and spam your most mana efficient heal that will keep people from dying for the current amount of damaging incoming, for the most part.
Pretty much the same as a DPS making sure their DoTs and buffs are up while you spam your best damage move for the current phase of the fight.
Yeah, again, this is not at all the experience I've had with FF14 healing.
It's kind of boring early on when you don't have many skills. But when you start getting into the level 30's, there basically is no healing rotation. You have toolbox of skills that are specialized for certain situations, and a huge part of being a good healer is recognizing not only which skill to use but also when to use it and who to use it on when everyone is taking damage.
And since everything is on a 2.5 second global cooldown, each choice matters. A lot can change in just under 3 seconds.
Well, I can't speak to FF14 because I have never played it, which is why I specifically said WoW in my post.
But basically in WoW you do whatever set up your class needs to make their heals optimal, while spamming whatever other heals you have, while doing whatever it is your specific class needs to do to keep their heals optimal, and save your cool downs for specific phases of the boss fight.
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I'd say the different weapons in Monster Hunter are just as different as switching to a different trifecta role in a standard MMO.
Because you can end up half assing both.
Rift kinda got close to this, class roles were still defined but every class could spec to fill 2 or 3 roles and everybody could have 3+ specs set up that they could switch as needed
except in any good mmo there isn't optimal tank or dps or healer, there are different types of all of them and they interact differently based on group size and make up and encounter and gear levels etc.
but when you have a gw2 system where its "ok we need x amount of healing so everyone put this skill on your bar and now everyone just use this weapon set and class because it does the most damage" its boring as fuck
Both are "don't stand in the fire" and "do optimal rotation" one is just targeting players and one is just targeting enemies.
hahahahahahahahaha
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Monster hunter also isn't exactly a total character action game.
Also isn't JUST about big numbers.
It's about going in prepared, with the right equipment for the job.
wow might have regressed to that by now for all i know
but no, absolutely not
This is a nice response that is very conducive to productive conversation.
I did both in WoW and this is my opinion on the matter. You can disagree if you like.
Also, even soloing GW2 just wasn't much fun for me.
The story instances can be brutally hard, and the overworlds are filled with enemies that can pretty easily kill if you accidentally pull two or more of them (which kind of discouraged me from exploring the maps).
Healing is actually kinda different.
DPS kinda just focus down the boss.
Healers play a complex game of triage ala whack a mole.
1: Beat up bad guys
2: Look fucking RADICAL DUDE
Make sure your correct HoTs and buffs are up and spam your most mana efficient heal that will keep people from dying for the current amount of damaging incoming, for the most part.
Pretty much the same as a DPS making sure their DoTs and buffs are up while you spam your best damage move for the current phase of the fight.
the limited movesets in gw2 is what bored me. why give me tons of skills if i can use like, 5? if its #esports, i don't give a shit, and if its for pve, everyone just uses the 5 best skills because there is only 1 role to fill
Uh, I don't know what it's like in WoW, but I've played all three roles in FF14 and there are pretty huge differences in how I play each one.
well i mean you can simplify it to "just do the best possible thing in every situation" and claim its a mindless rotation but i could say that your dps rotation in bayonetta is "do the most damage to enemies and don't get hit"
Tabula Rasa?
Age of Conan?
this is true at a base level, but a GOOD DPS manages threat, kites, and peels, amongst other things
I played a rogue so I rarely had to do any of that!
I just had to stay alive and hit the thing.
Which was kinda super boring and why I quit.
WoW doesn't even have threat anymore.
Yeah, again, this is not at all the experience I've had with FF14 healing.
It's kind of boring early on when you don't have many skills. But when you start getting into the level 30's, there basically is no healing rotation. You have toolbox of skills that are specialized for certain situations, and a huge part of being a good healer is recognizing not only which skill to use but also when to use it and who to use it on when everyone is taking damage.
And since everything is on a 2.5 second global cooldown, each choice matters. A lot can change in just under 3 seconds.
You can only cast your max rank of a spell in WoW, these days, iirc.
and thinking on it, the comparisons to my ideal CAG MMO and GW2 are absolutely apt. as are the comparions to monster hunter, to a degree. but the biggest, fundamental failing of GW2 is that there's no mechanics. every boss is an absolute spam fest, where you just hit v when the red circle appears below you, and that's a problem. a CAG needs mechanics, and if you just look at revengeance, or bayonetta, or dmc, i don't think it'd be hard to adapt those systems to accomodate 10 or so players. you don't need tanks or healers, but you need each player to be doing SOMETHING, ANYTHING that isn't identical to what the other player is doing.
and, at the same time, yes, there would definitely be classes. dante/vergil is a good comparison for sure, because vergil plays way different from dante, and they both play drastically different from bayonetta. coming up with 4 or 5 different movesets would be rad. and maybe they could have cross-move type stuff like ffxiv does, i don't know, like maybe you have one class that's very ground focused, and by leveling up as a dante, they learn a launcher. or a class that's more burly and has longer, heavier attacks, but can learn a quick opener by leveling up as vergil.
I didn't get to do it enough.
I got to like level 40 I think, I was in the mountain with the snow?
Still, being a tank that just teleports around when I need to provoke things? That was great.
Well, I can't speak to FF14 because I have never played it, which is why I specifically said WoW in my post.
But basically in WoW you do whatever set up your class needs to make their heals optimal, while spamming whatever other heals you have, while doing whatever it is your specific class needs to do to keep their heals optimal, and save your cool downs for specific phases of the boss fight.
No, please explain the mysteries of these other, completely unknown, shadowy games to me in excruciating detail.