NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
CCP is finally going to make 0.0 worth attempting to make ISK in compared to hisec?
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Our CSM guys seem happy about it so presumably it screws supercapitals at least as much as it screws normal capitals, and probably doesn't screw jump freighters. This makes me feel optimistic.
Need we be so serious here when we can be so very serious in space?
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NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
Strictly speaking, he wasn't asking you to break the NDA, he was asking if the information was available.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
LMGTFY
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
Yeah, this isn't Something Awful. Tone it down.
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
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The Black HunterThe key is a minimum of compromise, and a simple,unimpeachable reason to existRegistered Userregular
edited September 2014
accidental double post
The Black Hunter on
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The Black HunterThe key is a minimum of compromise, and a simple,unimpeachable reason to existRegistered Userregular
If you didnt have anything of substance to say why keep alluding to it?
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
edited September 2014
To be fair, that reply was fairly accurate to pretty much every conversation I've ever seen in EVE.
Also, in case anyone was still wondering, 0.0 fixes at the moment are know to be, in the works, and not reviled by the CSM. Someone mentioned them in CCP's video, and that's all they've said.
Brody on
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Yup, anything about the details of the sov changes are guesswork, other than that "power projection changes" are coming first: devblog in the second week of October, going live in one of the two remaining 2014 patches. I think I also saw something about Corp/Alliance fixes to follow in the medium term (sometime in 2015?) and actual sov changes in the longer term.
I'd like to see something where titans and supercarriers are pretty much relegated to one region at a time, as in they effectively can't join fights outside of that radius, while carriers would have more of a 2-3 region radius. There might be an accompanying increase in actual jump range on some of these ships, if the limit is by the number of jumps they can make in a given time period. It would make wars a bit more interesting, since everyone has everyone else's supercaps watchlisted, and everyone uses locator agents, you'd know where the enemy is deployed and could then deploy in response. And with a short enough range, that would potentially carve out space for more people to push into 0.0.
Sidenote on dreads, please of please CCP swap the dread and carrier build costs already, I want people throwing dreads around like candy.
I really doubt we'll see anything to limit the number of capitals that can move (like, only X ships can use each cyno), I expect whatever the change is it will be per-ship or per-character (X delay after each jump, for example). I think we can safely rule out the use of cost to limit any of these changes (for example, staging a carrier in each region, so the rich guys can jump/med clone and then deploy) - I think CCP has probably learned this lesson - which is why I'd lean towards expecting a per-character limit.
If you didnt have anything of substance to say why keep alluding to it?
He was a representative on the CSM last year. Most folks in here know that, and also know that he's explicitly not allowed to tell us anything due to his NDA. (And also that he likes to drop entertaining hinty bits in here and get us all in a sardonic froth)
His only purpose is torture. He deserves a little pleasure after what CCP subjected him to, I'm sure.
For business reasons, I must preserve the outward sign of sanity.
--Mark Twain
If you didnt have anything of substance to say why keep alluding to it?
He was a representative on the CSM last year. Most folks in here know that, and also know that he's explicitly not allowed to tell us anything due to his NDA. (And also that he likes to drop entertaining hinty bits in here and get us all in a sardonic froth)
His only purpose is torture. He deserves a little pleasure after what CCP subjected him to, I'm sure.
The CCP people were super nice as a rule, with only a few exceptions we had a very productive and professional relationship.
However a year of being on the CSM showed me that th players should be pushed into an active volcano as a sacrifice to the angry volcano god.
Also that "Null Deal" article is effing hilarious. Allow me to deconstruct it for you
"We demand 5 things that we're getting anyway and 1 other thing that will thoroughly undermine the whole point of the changes".
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The Black HunterThe key is a minimum of compromise, and a simple,unimpeachable reason to existRegistered Userregular
I can agree with what should be done to the playerbase
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DuriniaEvolved from Space PotatoesRegistered Userregular
If you didnt have anything of substance to say why keep alluding to it?
He was a representative on the CSM last year. Most folks in here know that, and also know that he's explicitly not allowed to tell us anything due to his NDA. (And also that he likes to drop entertaining hinty bits in here and get us all in a sardonic froth)
His only purpose is torture. He deserves a little pleasure after what CCP subjected him to, I'm sure.
The CCP people were super nice as a rule, with only a few exceptions we had a very productive and professional relationship.
I should clarify: the "what CCP subjected him to" was referring to "please deal with the silly geese who play our game."
Also, conveniently, there is an active volcano going strong in Iceland right now!
For business reasons, I must preserve the outward sign of sanity.
--Mark Twain
+1
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
I agree with most of it but the "couple of NPC stations per region" thing is a blatant attempt to retain the power projection of the existing powerblocs, and it will undermine everything that CCP needs to achieve. Claiming that it will "facilitate small scale PvP" is bluntly dishonest. What it will facilitate is a free invulnerable place to store caches of ships so that the rich, well organised groups can evade power projection nerfs by simply jumpcloning or interceptoring to wherever they need to go.
If the intent was truly to facilitate more unaligned groups in 0.0 - a worthy goal, BTW, they'd be asking for 2-4 more NPC regions like Curse or stain - large, lots of agents, lots of medical stations - close to those backwater sov areas. Not just a couple of stations which will be isolated and surrounded by alliance sov space for convenient jump bridge access, and which can easily be hellcamped if any small group does manage to become more than a trivial nuisance.
I agree with most of it but the "couple of NPC stations per region" thing is a blatant attempt to retain the power projection of the existing powerblocs, and it will undermine everything that CCP needs to achieve. Claiming that it will "facilitate small scale PvP" is bluntly dishonest. What it will facilitate is a free invulnerable place to store caches of ships so that the rich, well organised groups can evade power projection nerfs by simply jumpcloning or interceptoring to wherever they need to go.
If the intent was truly to facilitate more unaligned groups in 0.0 - a worthy goal, BTW, they'd be asking for 2-4 more NPC regions like Curse or stain - large, lots of agents, lots of medical stations - close to those backwater sov areas. Not just a couple of stations which will be isolated and surrounded by alliance sov space for convenient jump bridge access, and which can easily be hellcamped if any small group does manage to become more than a trivial nuisance.
I can see how ship caching is a thing to potentially worry about, but I'm not aware of it actually happening. Not because of cost, either. It's just hard to organize something like that. GSF technically has three main staging areas and I don't think that most people bother keeping ships anywhere other than where we are currently deployed. It always takes time for the JF services and importers to get rolling before the markets are actually stocked. If there are power projection nerfs and stockpiles of carriers/dreads become an issue, then yeah we should worry about that, but then you have hobojamming or hellcamps as counters.
As far as NPC sov: 5ZXX, while hellcamped on occasion, has been a very effective base for people who want to shoot us, and that's your main "only one station" example. Fountain has a constellation of stations and Delve has about twice as many as Fountain, and from the discussions I've seen those are what have been held up as the model for this proposal. Other than the time bob put their entire capital fleet into PR-, has Delve or even Fountain been effectively hellcamped? If you have a nice mix of Delve, Fountain, and 5ZXX equivalents spattered around all the regions that don't currently have NPC sov, evidence seems to indicate that there would definitely be opportunities created for small groups to move in and do things. Sure, it also enables the big guys to deploy (this is clearly an example of your law), but we can do that anyway.
Can't wait for people to try and use capitals to break up hostile gatecamps. I can already hear comms:
"Stop that Archon from burning back to the gate!!!!!!"
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DuriniaEvolved from Space PotatoesRegistered Userregular
Can't wait for people to try and use capitals to break up hostile gatecamps. I can already hear comms:
"Stop that Archon from burning back to the gate!!!!!!"
I can hardly wait to crash a gatecamp with a capswarm roll-through.
That was mostly sarcastic (but would still be cool to do once)
For business reasons, I must preserve the outward sign of sanity.
--Mark Twain
This is awesome, I am totally fine with these changes.
I will absolutely admit that staging caps with jump clones is most certainly the best way to project power now. But I'm dubious about the ship caching thing actually happening, I think we're still gonna move carriers either by one jump an hour to staging or by gates (lol). I'm sure as hell not stockpiling a carrier in each of our staging systems.
Ellthiteren on
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BaidolI will hold him offEscape while you canRegistered Userregular
Hahahaha I wonder if we will need to implement a "No carrier ratting" blackout prior to any capital deployments so as to stop people jumping into the starting system just before the move op, generating fatigue.
Hahahaha I wonder if we will need to implement a "No carrier ratting" blackout prior to any capital deployments so as to stop people jumping into the starting system just before the move op, generating fatigue.
"All capital ratting will now be limited to the capital staging system."
Oh God.
Drain on
"I don't know why people ever, ever try to stop nerds from doing things. It's really the most incredible waste of time." - Tycho
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
No, you just have a your planed start point, and everyone has to be there with 0 fatigue one hour after broadcasted move op. Everyone can then jump from up to 5ly, wait out the hour, and start with everyone else.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
No, you just have a your planed start point, and everyone has to be there with 0 fatigue one hour after broadcasted move op. Everyone can then jump from up to 5ly, wait out the hour, and start with everyone else.
Yes well I think having to do that could be reasonably described as a nerf.
Posts
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Lets not get crazy here...
That's the opening salvo.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
its in my pants
just get your hand in there have have a good feel around
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Need we be so serious here when we can be so very serious in space?
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Also, in case anyone was still wondering, 0.0 fixes at the moment are know to be, in the works, and not reviled by the CSM. Someone mentioned them in CCP's video, and that's all they've said.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
I'd like to see something where titans and supercarriers are pretty much relegated to one region at a time, as in they effectively can't join fights outside of that radius, while carriers would have more of a 2-3 region radius. There might be an accompanying increase in actual jump range on some of these ships, if the limit is by the number of jumps they can make in a given time period. It would make wars a bit more interesting, since everyone has everyone else's supercaps watchlisted, and everyone uses locator agents, you'd know where the enemy is deployed and could then deploy in response. And with a short enough range, that would potentially carve out space for more people to push into 0.0.
Sidenote on dreads, please of please CCP swap the dread and carrier build costs already, I want people throwing dreads around like candy.
I really doubt we'll see anything to limit the number of capitals that can move (like, only X ships can use each cyno), I expect whatever the change is it will be per-ship or per-character (X delay after each jump, for example). I think we can safely rule out the use of cost to limit any of these changes (for example, staging a carrier in each region, so the rich guys can jump/med clone and then deploy) - I think CCP has probably learned this lesson - which is why I'd lean towards expecting a per-character limit.
Anyway I'm excited for this devblog.
Sounds great to me.
He was a representative on the CSM last year. Most folks in here know that, and also know that he's explicitly not allowed to tell us anything due to his NDA. (And also that he likes to drop entertaining hinty bits in here and get us all in a sardonic froth)
His only purpose is torture. He deserves a little pleasure after what CCP subjected him to, I'm sure.
--Mark Twain
The CCP people were super nice as a rule, with only a few exceptions we had a very productive and professional relationship.
However a year of being on the CSM showed me that th players should be pushed into an active volcano as a sacrifice to the angry volcano god.
Also that "Null Deal" article is effing hilarious. Allow me to deconstruct it for you
"We demand 5 things that we're getting anyway and 1 other thing that will thoroughly undermine the whole point of the changes".
I should clarify: the "what CCP subjected him to" was referring to "please deal with the silly geese who play our game."
Also, conveniently, there is an active volcano going strong in Iceland right now!
--Mark Twain
I agree with most of it but the "couple of NPC stations per region" thing is a blatant attempt to retain the power projection of the existing powerblocs, and it will undermine everything that CCP needs to achieve. Claiming that it will "facilitate small scale PvP" is bluntly dishonest. What it will facilitate is a free invulnerable place to store caches of ships so that the rich, well organised groups can evade power projection nerfs by simply jumpcloning or interceptoring to wherever they need to go.
If the intent was truly to facilitate more unaligned groups in 0.0 - a worthy goal, BTW, they'd be asking for 2-4 more NPC regions like Curse or stain - large, lots of agents, lots of medical stations - close to those backwater sov areas. Not just a couple of stations which will be isolated and surrounded by alliance sov space for convenient jump bridge access, and which can easily be hellcamped if any small group does manage to become more than a trivial nuisance.
I can see how ship caching is a thing to potentially worry about, but I'm not aware of it actually happening. Not because of cost, either. It's just hard to organize something like that. GSF technically has three main staging areas and I don't think that most people bother keeping ships anywhere other than where we are currently deployed. It always takes time for the JF services and importers to get rolling before the markets are actually stocked. If there are power projection nerfs and stockpiles of carriers/dreads become an issue, then yeah we should worry about that, but then you have hobojamming or hellcamps as counters.
As far as NPC sov: 5ZXX, while hellcamped on occasion, has been a very effective base for people who want to shoot us, and that's your main "only one station" example. Fountain has a constellation of stations and Delve has about twice as many as Fountain, and from the discussions I've seen those are what have been held up as the model for this proposal. Other than the time bob put their entire capital fleet into PR-, has Delve or even Fountain been effectively hellcamped? If you have a nice mix of Delve, Fountain, and 5ZXX equivalents spattered around all the regions that don't currently have NPC sov, evidence seems to indicate that there would definitely be opportunities created for small groups to move in and do things. Sure, it also enables the big guys to deploy (this is clearly an example of your law), but we can do that anyway.
But things are about to start changing
Alternate thread title, from jabber: "EVE Online - We can have fun, but only if we actively steal it from someone else"
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/long-distance-travel-changes-inbound/
You weren't just whistling dixie.
Funny part - sitting in station in a huge cap fleet when these were released. The initial rage was palpable.
--Mark Twain
"Stop that Archon from burning back to the gate!!!!!!"
I can hardly wait to crash a gatecamp with a capswarm roll-through.
That was mostly sarcastic (but would still be cool to do once)
--Mark Twain
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
Today
Today I am full of win.
And some powdered stuff you don't need to know about, but mostly win.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
I will absolutely admit that staging caps with jump clones is most certainly the best way to project power now. But I'm dubious about the ship caching thing actually happening, I think we're still gonna move carriers either by one jump an hour to staging or by gates (lol). I'm sure as hell not stockpiling a carrier in each of our staging systems.
Oh God.
"I don't know why people ever, ever try to stop nerds from doing things. It's really the most incredible waste of time." - Tycho
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Yes well I think having to do that could be reasonably described as a nerf.
Kill or cure.