man i've not really been thinking much of the paid mods thing
part of it is that i just never use them, not even for bethesda games, so it's pretty out-of-sight out-of-mind for me
but even taking a second to think about it, it just seems incredibly shitty as a consumer
if i were developing mods i'd be pretty happy about it, i guess? but man
paying for mods doesn't really bother me ethically, but now the chance i don't use them has pretty well gone from 99 to 100%
I wouldn't be, as a mod maker
they take a 75% cut
that's so much that being a professional mod maker is pretty much untennable, they're basically outsourcing DLC and paying less than minimum wage (in almost every case) for it
man i've not really been thinking much of the paid mods thing
part of it is that i just never use them, not even for bethesda games, so it's pretty out-of-sight out-of-mind for me
but even taking a second to think about it, it just seems incredibly shitty as a consumer
if i were developing mods i'd be pretty happy about it, i guess? but man
paying for mods doesn't really bother me ethically, but now the chance i don't use them has pretty well gone from 99 to 100%
I wouldn't be, as a mod maker
they take a 75% cut
that's so much that being a professional mod maker is pretty much untennable, they're basically outsourcing DLC and paying less than minimum wage (in almost every case) for it
I don't get it, is 25% < 0%
I'd say 25% is a fucking lot tbh, some mod makers can easily make more than actual full time developers of the original game.
man i've not really been thinking much of the paid mods thing
part of it is that i just never use them, not even for bethesda games, so it's pretty out-of-sight out-of-mind for me
but even taking a second to think about it, it just seems incredibly shitty as a consumer
if i were developing mods i'd be pretty happy about it, i guess? but man
paying for mods doesn't really bother me ethically, but now the chance i don't use them has pretty well gone from 99 to 100%
I wouldn't be, as a mod maker
they take a 75% cut
that's so much that being a professional mod maker is pretty much untennable, they're basically outsourcing DLC and paying less than minimum wage (in almost every case) for it
I don't get it, is 25% < 0%
I'd say 25% is a fucking lot tbh, some mod makers can easily make more than actual full time developers of the original game.
[citation needed]
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
man i've not really been thinking much of the paid mods thing
part of it is that i just never use them, not even for bethesda games, so it's pretty out-of-sight out-of-mind for me
but even taking a second to think about it, it just seems incredibly shitty as a consumer
if i were developing mods i'd be pretty happy about it, i guess? but man
paying for mods doesn't really bother me ethically, but now the chance i don't use them has pretty well gone from 99 to 100%
I wouldn't be, as a mod maker
they take a 75% cut
that's so much that being a professional mod maker is pretty much untennable, they're basically outsourcing DLC and paying less than minimum wage (in almost every case) for it
I don't get it, is 25% < 0%
I'd say 25% is a fucking lot tbh, some mod makers can easily make more than actual full time developers of the original game.
As far as royalties go, it's not bad.
I'm pretty sure traditionally published authors make less, and musicians get less off album sales.
If Bethesda doesn't switch engines, they may have little choice.
The majority of high rated Gamebryo mods run through a special loader to among other things use more of the available RAM and have more interaction with the game itself, which is impossible through the workshop.
I'm 99% sure that it is also completely trivial to pirate these paid mods because of the way Skyrim loads in mods.
man i've not really been thinking much of the paid mods thing
part of it is that i just never use them, not even for bethesda games, so it's pretty out-of-sight out-of-mind for me
but even taking a second to think about it, it just seems incredibly shitty as a consumer
if i were developing mods i'd be pretty happy about it, i guess? but man
paying for mods doesn't really bother me ethically, but now the chance i don't use them has pretty well gone from 99 to 100%
I wouldn't be, as a mod maker
they take a 75% cut
that's so much that being a professional mod maker is pretty much untennable, they're basically outsourcing DLC and paying less than minimum wage (in almost every case) for it
I don't get it, is 25% < 0%
I'd say 25% is a fucking lot tbh, some mod makers can easily make more than actual full time developers of the original game.
[citation needed]
There are people who have made skins for dota2 and csgo making serious cash from it and I think they get about 25% as well
man i've not really been thinking much of the paid mods thing
part of it is that i just never use them, not even for bethesda games, so it's pretty out-of-sight out-of-mind for me
but even taking a second to think about it, it just seems incredibly shitty as a consumer
if i were developing mods i'd be pretty happy about it, i guess? but man
paying for mods doesn't really bother me ethically, but now the chance i don't use them has pretty well gone from 99 to 100%
I wouldn't be, as a mod maker
they take a 75% cut
that's so much that being a professional mod maker is pretty much untennable, they're basically outsourcing DLC and paying less than minimum wage (in almost every case) for it
I don't get it, is 25% < 0%
I'd say 25% is a fucking lot tbh, some mod makers can easily make more than actual full time developers of the original game.
Not when they get 45% to every 25% the modder does.
I'm questionable about the entire thing but people are using the Bethseda numbers like they're gospel, apparently they get to choose what they charge mods using their game. If it were more like 10% I would be much less opposed.
Modding something like Skyrim or Fallout 3 with a simple "click to install mod" interface is impossible. They're already on the workshop but nobody really uses it aside from very basic additions or modifications.
now if the mod maker got a 75% cut I'd be all for it with just a few reservations (with such a mature modding scene and so many mods requiring so many other mods its a clusterfuck)
man i've not really been thinking much of the paid mods thing
part of it is that i just never use them, not even for bethesda games, so it's pretty out-of-sight out-of-mind for me
but even taking a second to think about it, it just seems incredibly shitty as a consumer
if i were developing mods i'd be pretty happy about it, i guess? but man
paying for mods doesn't really bother me ethically, but now the chance i don't use them has pretty well gone from 99 to 100%
I wouldn't be, as a mod maker
they take a 75% cut
that's so much that being a professional mod maker is pretty much untennable, they're basically outsourcing DLC and paying less than minimum wage (in almost every case) for it
I don't get it, is 25% < 0%
I'd say 25% is a fucking lot tbh, some mod makers can easily make more than actual full time developers of the original game.
Mods are made by enthusiasts and should always remain free. If a mod maker puts in a billion hours and makes a professional-quality mod, their reward is devs will notice it and hire them.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Mods are made by enthusiasts and should always remain free. If a mod maker puts in a billion hours and makes a professional-quality mod, their reward is devs will notice it and hire them.
This is ridiculous.
A person can charge for their work if they want to. They are not obligated to just give it to you free of charge because it might get them 'valuable experience.'
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
half life 3 skyrim mod
suck on that Gabe
+1
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21stCenturyCall me Pixel, or Pix for short![They/Them]Registered Userregular
Mods are made by enthusiasts and should always remain free. If a mod maker puts in a billion hours and makes a professional-quality mod, their reward is devs will notice it and hire them.
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Haha.
Typically, an author can expect to receive the following royalties: Hardback edition: 10% of the retail price on the first 5,000 copies; 12.5% for the next 5,000 copies sold, then 15% for all further copies sold. Paperback: 8% of retail price on the first 150,000 copies sold, then 10% thereafter.
I'm not getting the amount of hate Valve is (apparently) receiving from this, it seems ill-conceived but not the second coming of EA. Were Skyrim modders raking in the money before this? If you're concerned about certain publishers using mods in the future to flesh out their unfinished products, don't buy their shitty games or slave labor produced mods.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Mods are made by enthusiasts and should always remain free. If a mod maker puts in a billion hours and makes a professional-quality mod, their reward is devs will notice it and hire them.
This does not have to be true.
Like, the upcoming unreal tournament is going to have a marketplace where people can make weapons, game types, characters and maps and get a 70/30 split for sales of those items.
Collections of things can be aggregated and turned into bundles which you can buy and in turn end up with an entirely new game with different rules, physics, weapons, etc.
It can be done right. I don't think Bethesda is doing it right though.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Also, not all mods are made by enthusiasts. Many are professional.
theres only like 60 mods with more than 1 million downloads on nexus
even for those extremely popular mods, at 25% cut to get "more than actual full time developers of the original game" you'd still need a really high (I'd assume unrealistically high) conversion rate from free downloaders to paid downloaders
Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
+2
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Rear Admiral ChocoI wanna be an owl, Jerry!Owl York CityRegistered Userregular
Honestly, i would love to see paid mods for Tabletop Simulator.
Can't think of other games where the paid workshop content could be good, though.
But can you imagine if TTS had paid mods? I'd feel a lot less bad for getting existing games on there.
Also i could sell my dumb board game ideas.
except there's nowhere for the actual board game devs to get a cut from it unless they develop the mod themselves
given that it seems it's mostly just users implementing the board games they want on there it seems better from a legal standpoint if they'd just not done paid mods
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Typically, an author can expect to receive the following royalties: Hardback edition: 10% of the retail price on the first 5,000 copies; 12.5% for the next 5,000 copies sold, then 15% for all further copies sold. Paperback: 8% of retail price on the first 150,000 copies sold, then 10% thereafter.
25% is fucking generous.
I think it would be wiser to compare it to other digital app markets.
Apple takes 30% (plus $99/yr to be a registered developer), you get 70%.
Books are a major pain in the ass because they are a physical product that takes up space and requires expensive industries to produce and transport.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
that is a pretty silly way to interpret it though
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Rear Admiral ChocoI wanna be an owl, Jerry!Owl York CityRegistered Userregular
Well, the worst thing about the paid mods is the Steam Workshop is going to turn into the same thing as the Appstore. A shitton of awful quality drowning out the good stuff to the point that I can't be bothered to buy anything anymore.
In my experience the Workshop was that way right from the start. I always found the good stuff either by trawling through the Nexus, or word of mouth in the Skyrim thread in G&T.
this is exactly my feelings on it
i wasn't having fun with skyrim and it was suggested i try a few mods
even having a list of suggestions it was a chore to slog through the workshop for what i was looking for
there was a good number of mods that had similar names too and it just seemed exactly like trawling through the app store for something
implementing a paid system doesn't really sound like it'll affect it much for me
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
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Rear Admiral ChocoI wanna be an owl, Jerry!Owl York CityRegistered Userregular
Why are you comparing mods to apple apps? A better comparison would be youtube videos
they aren't competing with other paid mods
they are competing with years of free mods
75% cut from them is garbage, I'm continually amazed by the immediate response of so many consumers to suck corporate wang, Bethesda's games on PC depend on the modding community
they're shitting where they eat right now, they should be taking 50% (valve+beth) at the most
override367 on
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Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
The problem with mods is that they take an existing product and remix it. Not just games, but other mods too. So for years, mods have played off other mods. Stealing everything and making a small tweak, throwing in a little attribution line for all the parts they were made from. And that's fine, no one got mad when all mods were free or at best donation supported.
But throw in a marketplace, put a price on them and it's just a drama bomb waiting to happen. I am astonished valve didn't see this coming.
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Typically, an author can expect to receive the following royalties: Hardback edition: 10% of the retail price on the first 5,000 copies; 12.5% for the next 5,000 copies sold, then 15% for all further copies sold. Paperback: 8% of retail price on the first 150,000 copies sold, then 10% thereafter.
25% is fucking generous.
I think it would be wiser to compare it to other digital app markets.
Apple takes 30% (plus $99/yr to be a registered developer), you get 70%.
Books are a major pain in the ass because they are a physical product that takes up space and requires expensive industries to produce and transport.
If you self-publish, yes.
If you want to publish your mod through Workshop, you have a deal to work out.
If you want to self-publish, you can keep a lot more of the profit.
So this is typical.
Do you think authors are getting 75% of an e-book published traditionally? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.
Typically, an author can expect to receive the following royalties: Hardback edition: 10% of the retail price on the first 5,000 copies; 12.5% for the next 5,000 copies sold, then 15% for all further copies sold. Paperback: 8% of retail price on the first 150,000 copies sold, then 10% thereafter.
25% is fucking generous.
I think it would be wiser to compare it to other digital app markets.
Apple takes 30% (plus $99/yr to be a registered developer), you get 70%.
Books are a major pain in the ass because they are a physical product that takes up space and requires expensive industries to produce and transport.
still not exactly a good comparison since mods are by definition derivative work and not an original product, apps built on licensed software probably pay decent chunk to do so
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TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
there's an Orphan Black thread but it's pretty negative
The problem with mods is that they take an existing product and remix it. Not just games, but other mods too. So for years, mods have played off other mods. Stealing everything and making a small tweak, throwing in a little attribution line for all the parts they were made from. And that's fine, no one got mad when all mods were free or at best donation supported.
But throw in a marketplace, put a price on them and it's just a drama bomb waiting to happen. I am astonished valve didn't see this coming.
Am I committing piracy by keeping skyui installed on my PC?
Do I have to buy the new version? What about the mods that all require Skyui?
this is a clusterfuck
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
The problem with mods is that they take an existing product and remix it. Not just games, but other mods too. So for years, mods have played off other mods. Stealing everything and making a small tweak, throwing in a little attribution line for all the parts they were made from. And that's fine, no one got mad when all mods were free or at best donation supported.
But throw in a marketplace, put a price on them and it's just a drama bomb waiting to happen. I am astonished valve didn't see this coming.
yeah this is more or less the problem
the issues arise entirely from the fact that they now cost money and what that means in terms of identifying original creators, mods based on (or "inspired by") ip's owned by other companies etc etc
the cut for the mod makers is not even close to being the biggest reason why this is a bad idea
Posts
I wouldn't be, as a mod maker
they take a 75% cut
that's so much that being a professional mod maker is pretty much untennable, they're basically outsourcing DLC and paying less than minimum wage (in almost every case) for it
I sincerely doubt Bethesda would make their next game totally unmoddable by traditional means even if they're on the workshop as well.
I don't get it, is 25% < 0%
I'd say 25% is a fucking lot tbh, some mod makers can easily make more than actual full time developers of the original game.
[citation needed]
As far as royalties go, it's not bad.
I'm pretty sure traditionally published authors make less, and musicians get less off album sales.
The majority of high rated Gamebryo mods run through a special loader to among other things use more of the available RAM and have more interaction with the game itself, which is impossible through the workshop.
I'm 99% sure that it is also completely trivial to pirate these paid mods because of the way Skyrim loads in mods.
There are people who have made skins for dota2 and csgo making serious cash from it and I think they get about 25% as well
there are a lot of people on steam
If the mod makes $399 Valve+Bethesda keep all of it.
Not when they get 45% to every 25% the modder does.
I'm questionable about the entire thing but people are using the Bethseda numbers like they're gospel, apparently they get to choose what they charge mods using their game. If it were more like 10% I would be much less opposed.
He put his name on Lords of Shadow 2.
He didn't do squat to help the devs make the game.
Lords of Shadow 2 was a sales dud.
hahaha, yeah right
skyrim mods are not dota skins
This is ridiculous.
A person can charge for their work if they want to. They are not obligated to just give it to you free of charge because it might get them 'valuable experience.'
suck on that Gabe
"It's great for your portfolio."
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
25% is fucking generous.
This does not have to be true.
Like, the upcoming unreal tournament is going to have a marketplace where people can make weapons, game types, characters and maps and get a 70/30 split for sales of those items.
Collections of things can be aggregated and turned into bundles which you can buy and in turn end up with an entirely new game with different rules, physics, weapons, etc.
It can be done right. I don't think Bethesda is doing it right though.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
even for those extremely popular mods, at 25% cut to get "more than actual full time developers of the original game" you'd still need a really high (I'd assume unrealistically high) conversion rate from free downloaders to paid downloaders
except there's nowhere for the actual board game devs to get a cut from it unless they develop the mod themselves
given that it seems it's mostly just users implementing the board games they want on there it seems better from a legal standpoint if they'd just not done paid mods
I think it would be wiser to compare it to other digital app markets.
Apple takes 30% (plus $99/yr to be a registered developer), you get 70%.
Books are a major pain in the ass because they are a physical product that takes up space and requires expensive industries to produce and transport.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
that is a pretty silly way to interpret it though
this is exactly my feelings on it
i wasn't having fun with skyrim and it was suggested i try a few mods
even having a list of suggestions it was a chore to slog through the workshop for what i was looking for
there was a good number of mods that had similar names too and it just seemed exactly like trawling through the app store for something
implementing a paid system doesn't really sound like it'll affect it much for me
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
eh
steam taking a 30% cut seems fair enough, i don't think the devs should be able to take as high a cut as bethesda is going for
especially not bethesda given that my experience with their games is pretty fuckin' garbo with how bug ridden they are
they aren't competing with other paid mods
they are competing with years of free mods
75% cut from them is garbage, I'm continually amazed by the immediate response of so many consumers to suck corporate wang, Bethesda's games on PC depend on the modding community
they're shitting where they eat right now, they should be taking 50% (valve+beth) at the most
But throw in a marketplace, put a price on them and it's just a drama bomb waiting to happen. I am astonished valve didn't see this coming.
If you self-publish, yes.
If you want to publish your mod through Workshop, you have a deal to work out.
If you want to self-publish, you can keep a lot more of the profit.
So this is typical.
Do you think authors are getting 75% of an e-book published traditionally? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.
still not exactly a good comparison since mods are by definition derivative work and not an original product, apps built on licensed software probably pay decent chunk to do so
yeah I won't bother posting there
Am I committing piracy by keeping skyui installed on my PC?
Do I have to buy the new version? What about the mods that all require Skyui?
this is a clusterfuck
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
good gravy those people are morons.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
yeah this is more or less the problem
the issues arise entirely from the fact that they now cost money and what that means in terms of identifying original creators, mods based on (or "inspired by") ip's owned by other companies etc etc
the cut for the mod makers is not even close to being the biggest reason why this is a bad idea