This guy has been working with three members of studio Khara since 1990 and with the studio itself since the first Rebuild film in 2009. If he wasn’t being faithful to their intent, I would be extremely surprised.
I don’t really have any thing else to add to that specifically. I think there’s more interesting thought to explore about localization in general, and specifically to Japan and the Japanese language, but I’m in the middle of moving right now so I think I’ll drop the topic after this.
I mean, if what you want to argue is "instead of thinking the translator is a fuckmuppet that made a bad translation, you should be thinking studio Khara are a bunch of fuckmuppets that insisted on a bad translation", then sure, I could accept that. I'd just add "new Eva" to my list of "reasons why someone needs to stand over the original creator with a wooden ruler to smack their fingers when translation is involved". It's been growing significantly, these past years.
However, this kinda implies that the only translation Khara cared about was the English one, because believe you me, a lot of other languages translated a bunch of things in very different ways. Which, again, is a posibility, but rather adds to the fuckmuppet points.
Well yeah, that was my point when I decided to look into it and ended up defending the guy.
What's the alternative here? That translator Dan suddenly decided to straight-wash the Eva series because he's "a fuckmuppet", that after 30 years of translating he decided that now was his chance? That Neflix execs thought "hmm, we like how weird Eva is, but we're not comfortable with how gay it is, oh, and also lets throw shade at our core college-campus audience with a jab at left-wing politics." I mean, did we all suddenly forget about Atomic Tofu's post?
This sounds much more plausible than "it was rushed and they didn't have time to do localization." I knew that Khara was unhappy about the original 3.33 translation, but I didn't know that was the reason why.
Only a few pages later you were back to thinking that the translator was primarily at fault:
You gotta "preserve the ambiguity" when translating Kwoaru's lines, but then when you've got lines where Shinji is talking to Asuka about how he needs her help you gotta make sure the line says "you're the only one for me." :rotate:
I must be missing something here. Yes, I agree the new translation isn't as good. I agree that especially Kaworu's lines should read "love" and that Shinji's line there is really hammy, but I'm not seeing deliberate fuckmuppetry here. There's something deeper, which is a fundamental misunderstanding between Japanese and American culture. Now I'm not a professional anthropologist, but I do have a degree in socio-linguistics and I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, so here's what I think happened.
American adaptations of Japanese media (anime in particular) have a long history of being severely edited to their detriment. I mean, we all love the 4kids meme's about rice-ball donuts etc. but one of the worst localizations in history was Nausicaa:
I'm sure most people are pretty familiar with this, but just in case, Warriors of the Wind cut 26:13 minutes from Nausicaa's run time, edited the order of scenes to make it more closely resemble the 1985 Saturday-morning cartoon adventure plotline, and made a host of other changes. It influenced Miyazaki enough that he wouldn't release any more of his movies overseas until ten years later. When localizing Princess Mononoke, Miramax attempted to edit it, but Ghibli sent them a katana with a note attached that said: "no cuts."
"Although I did go to New York to meet this man, this Harvey Weinstein, and I was bombarded with this aggressive attack, all these demands for cuts. I defeated him."
There's a stronger connection between these events than simply the fact that they're both about anime. One of Hideaki Anno's earliest and most famous works prior to Eva was as an animator on Nausicaa. Specifically he drew and animated the God-Warrior monster (he was making a name for himself at the time as the premier horrifying monster artist). He and Miyazaki became good friends during the production, and have remained close to this day:
So yes, when I read a story about how a Japanese work is seemingly thought ridiculed by its fans, and that includes Anno, I'm kinda inclined to believe it. There's precedent for it. It's still going on today as evidenced by the first post in this thread. The latest rumor on the Your Name remake is that it's gonna be westernized to shit. And they're going to open a whole can of worms by casting Mitsuha as a rural Native American I mean, hopefully it's a really nuanced take on that. But you could also read that as a declaration that poignant stories about melancholy and loneliness made by a Japanese author just aren't good enough to stand on their own in America, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary!
Now my point by bringing all this up isn't to just say shut up and take it. We've a right to be upset by the new translation. It's flat. It's tone-deaf. It's especially insensitive in a time when LGBTQ are under a lot of persecution. But is hurling insults at the clouds really the right way to go about this? Could we not try at least to understand the motives behind these changes before lighting our torches and sharpening our pitch-forks? Or do we play the game where we try to make the case that our side was hurt more and are more entitled to our outrage? Maybe I personally am getting a bit too involved and into the weeds about this, but then again I'm at this very moment traveling cross-country to get on a rotator to Japan where my new job will be integration between American and Japanese forces in Japan. So, you know, I do study and think about this kind of stuff constantly.
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
Well, it's the gap week between seasons, so it should be a bit quieter this week, I imagine?
Also, tangentially related, I didn't know there was a new season of RWBY up on Crunchyroll. I had kept my queue on the next to last episode of the previous season, since I occasionally rewatch the best fight of the season (and arguably series):
However, this kinda implies that the only translation Khara cared about was the English one, because believe you me, a lot of other languages translated a bunch of things in very different ways. Which, again, is a posibility, but rather adds to the fuckmuppet points.
IIRC it's been confirmed that the English translation was the only one (save for the Italian one I think?) translated from the original Japanese. The others were translated from the English translation.
Having watched at least 3 idol anime, the best one is Love Live Sunshine because the moral of the story is that even if you try your best and work hard, dreams don't come true.
Everyday we stray further from God's light Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
@italianranma
My first quoted post was that I didn't buy the explanation for the poor reception of the new translation to be blamed on "they didn't have enough time it was a rush job." I was agreeing that whatever the faults of the new translation, they were deliberate choices and not made out of neglect/carelessness due to a tight timeframe to deliver. That's not the same as not thinking the translator was not at fault, and in fact I would not be blaming the translator if it was a rushjob, because the fault would lay on those above the translator who set unrealistic goals with insufficient manpower.
Well, it's the gap week between seasons, so it should be a bit quieter this week, I imagine?
Also, tangentially related, I didn't know there was a new season of RWBY up on Crunchyroll. I had kept my queue on the next to last episode of the previous season, since I occasionally rewatch the best fight of the season (and arguably series)
There's another season on Rooster Teeth's website too. No registration or fees necessary.
I wasn't really feeling Demon Slayer for the first 3 episodes so I put it aside. Then I went back to it and the show busted out a Nier ass soundtrack so now it's good
Whoever the person is whose body cells at work takes place in seems be one big trouble magnet
in real life your body actually is fighting off infections successfully constantly, it's only the rare times one really sneaks past or overwhelms the initial immune response that you get sick.
Well yeah, Zeon only barely got MS sized beam weaponry ready before the one year war was over.
Now the Gouf Custom's sword is a Heat Sword, where heat from the engine is sent to the weapon to make it super hot, but Noris never used his activated for some reason.
Also the Gundam Ground types were Gudams in name only really. They were essentially just GMs with gundam parts bolted on to improve performance somewhat. Even the customized Ez-8's big improvement is just thicker armor.
I just love the rebuilt chest ez-8 so much. Its still one of my all time favorites
GreasyKidsStuffMOMMM!ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered Userregular
I just finished my rewatch of Evangelion (aside from EoE) and now I’m one of those people who think the last two episodes are good, actually. The buildup with the music towards the last shot is so great!
I think the best part about this poster is that they did include the actual main character, but she's shoved off into the top-right corner and made extremely tiny to the point of not having a face. Gotta make room for Gun Dude and the big monster.
I think the best part about this poster is that they did include the actual main character, but she's shoved off into the top-right corner and made extremely tiny to the point of not having a face. Gotta make room for Gun Dude and the big monster.
It's like, did no one in that office stop wonder what audiences would think when none of those three in the center ever show up on film? What did that meeting sound like?
"And put in one of those winged horses, that way we can appeal to the My Little Pony market! Maybe we can sell some toys too. What should we call them... Flying horses? Too plain. Horse-flies! No wait... Hmmm. Something that sounds like ponies maybe? I got it, Ponisoars!"
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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Andy JoeWe claim the land for the highlord!The AdirondacksRegistered Userregular
Whoever the person is whose body cells at work takes place in seems be one big trouble magnet
in real life your body actually is fighting off infections successfully constantly, it's only the rare times one really sneaks past or overwhelms the initial immune response that you get sick.
They get heatstroke bad enough to need an IV drip, and then lose enough blood to need a transfusion, all within the lifespan of a single red cell!
I just finished my rewatch of Evangelion (aside from EoE) and now I’m one of those people who think the last two episodes are good, actually. The buildup with the music towards the last shot is so great!
your body is constantly inadvertently creating cancer cells throughout your entire life just 99.9% of the time, like is the case in the show, it actually doesn't become a big deal.
I just finished my rewatch of Evangelion (aside from EoE) and now I’m one of those people who think the last two episodes are good, actually. The buildup with the music towards the last shot is so great!
what possible reasoning could there be for this other than incompetence
Translating the script from a text file without looking at the accompanying animation? I don't know how localization work goes but that doesn't sound crazy
what possible reasoning could there be for this other than incompetence
Translating the script from a text file without looking at the accompanying animation? I don't know how localization work goes but that doesn't sound crazy
having no one involved actually watch the show sounds like incompetence to me
Okay but is that how the japanese line is written, or was that a flourish of the old english translation?
People keep saying they changed it from X to Y but really X and Y are both being separately derived from Z
If they translated the door to the new line as well, that would still be stupid (because this is a quote and the wording should not actually be changed), but they did it differently. It's just a bad job.
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Well yeah, that was my point when I decided to look into it and ended up defending the guy.
What's the alternative here? That translator Dan suddenly decided to straight-wash the Eva series because he's "a fuckmuppet", that after 30 years of translating he decided that now was his chance? That Neflix execs thought "hmm, we like how weird Eva is, but we're not comfortable with how gay it is, oh, and also lets throw shade at our core college-campus audience with a jab at left-wing politics." I mean, did we all suddenly forget about Atomic Tofu's post?
I'm not sure Atomic Tofu's post is the 100% truth, but it sounds pretty plausible. And Certainly Dark Primus thought so as well:
Only a few pages later you were back to thinking that the translator was primarily at fault:
I must be missing something here. Yes, I agree the new translation isn't as good. I agree that especially Kaworu's lines should read "love" and that Shinji's line there is really hammy, but I'm not seeing deliberate fuckmuppetry here. There's something deeper, which is a fundamental misunderstanding between Japanese and American culture. Now I'm not a professional anthropologist, but I do have a degree in socio-linguistics and I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, so here's what I think happened.
American adaptations of Japanese media (anime in particular) have a long history of being severely edited to their detriment. I mean, we all love the 4kids meme's about rice-ball donuts etc. but one of the worst localizations in history was Nausicaa:
I'm sure most people are pretty familiar with this, but just in case, Warriors of the Wind cut 26:13 minutes from Nausicaa's run time, edited the order of scenes to make it more closely resemble the 1985 Saturday-morning cartoon adventure plotline, and made a host of other changes. It influenced Miyazaki enough that he wouldn't release any more of his movies overseas until ten years later. When localizing Princess Mononoke, Miramax attempted to edit it, but Ghibli sent them a katana with a note attached that said: "no cuts."
There's a stronger connection between these events than simply the fact that they're both about anime. One of Hideaki Anno's earliest and most famous works prior to Eva was as an animator on Nausicaa. Specifically he drew and animated the God-Warrior monster (he was making a name for himself at the time as the premier horrifying monster artist). He and Miyazaki became good friends during the production, and have remained close to this day:
So yes, when I read a story about how a Japanese work is seemingly thought ridiculed by its fans, and that includes Anno, I'm kinda inclined to believe it. There's precedent for it. It's still going on today as evidenced by the first post in this thread. The latest rumor on the Your Name remake is that it's gonna be westernized to shit. And they're going to open a whole can of worms by casting Mitsuha as a rural Native American I mean, hopefully it's a really nuanced take on that. But you could also read that as a declaration that poignant stories about melancholy and loneliness made by a Japanese author just aren't good enough to stand on their own in America, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary!
Now my point by bringing all this up isn't to just say shut up and take it. We've a right to be upset by the new translation. It's flat. It's tone-deaf. It's especially insensitive in a time when LGBTQ are under a lot of persecution. But is hurling insults at the clouds really the right way to go about this? Could we not try at least to understand the motives behind these changes before lighting our torches and sharpening our pitch-forks? Or do we play the game where we try to make the case that our side was hurt more and are more entitled to our outrage? Maybe I personally am getting a bit too involved and into the weeds about this, but then again I'm at this very moment traveling cross-country to get on a rotator to Japan where my new job will be integration between American and Japanese forces in Japan. So, you know, I do study and think about this kind of stuff constantly.
All we need to do is not fuck this up. Simple right? Just do one job.
Side note Zombieland Saga is pretty fun and Saki is best girl.
AniList
Also, tangentially related, I didn't know there was a new season of RWBY up on Crunchyroll. I had kept my queue on the next to last episode of the previous season, since I occasionally rewatch the best fight of the season (and arguably series):
Also I stand by my Christmas forum opinion that "best girl" should be a banned phrase
Well played, @Isorn and thanks :P
all because of THE LEGENDARY YAMADA TAE
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
My first quoted post was that I didn't buy the explanation for the poor reception of the new translation to be blamed on "they didn't have enough time it was a rush job." I was agreeing that whatever the faults of the new translation, they were deliberate choices and not made out of neglect/carelessness due to a tight timeframe to deliver. That's not the same as not thinking the translator was not at fault, and in fact I would not be blaming the translator if it was a rushjob, because the fault would lay on those above the translator who set unrealistic goals with insufficient manpower.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
There's another season on Rooster Teeth's website too. No registration or fees necessary.
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
in real life your body actually is fighting off infections successfully constantly, it's only the rare times one really sneaks past or overwhelms the initial immune response that you get sick.
Also not sure if this is too well known but it is getting a season 2.
AniList
I just love the rebuilt chest ez-8 so much. Its still one of my all time favorites
Makes sense. There's a Cells at Work: Black (or something) that takes place in the body of an adult smoker.
I think the best part about this poster is that they did include the actual main character, but she's shoved off into the top-right corner and made extremely tiny to the point of not having a face. Gotta make room for Gun Dude and the big monster.
It's like, did no one in that office stop wonder what audiences would think when none of those three in the center ever show up on film? What did that meeting sound like?
"And put in one of those winged horses, that way we can appeal to the My Little Pony market! Maybe we can sell some toys too. What should we call them... Flying horses? Too plain. Horse-flies! No wait... Hmmm. Something that sounds like ponies maybe? I got it, Ponisoars!"
They get heatstroke bad enough to need an IV drip, and then lose enough blood to need a transfusion, all within the lifespan of a single red cell!
Thats very dark considering one of late villians
All is very good
what possible reasoning could there be for this other than incompetence
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
Saikai (Reunion) / Harumaki Gohan AMV
Duration: 4:07
Alternate version from the other character's side sung by Hatsune Miku (Vocaloid) on nicocnico
https://sp.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm35330510
This will be here until I receive an apology or Weedlordvegeta get any consequences for being a bully
Translating the script from a text file without looking at the accompanying animation? I don't know how localization work goes but that doesn't sound crazy
http://www.audioentropy.com/
having no one involved actually watch the show sounds like incompetence to me
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
it's on the screen, and it's a quote
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
People keep saying they changed it from X to Y but really X and Y are both being separately derived from Z
If they translated the door to the new line as well, that would still be stupid (because this is a quote and the wording should not actually be changed), but they did it differently. It's just a bad job.
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
You dissing lord inosuke?
What if it's the show's creator