DrezI’m exactly the same in real lifeRegistered Userregular
edited December 2006
"Stop this "clique" bullshit"
I'll stop the clique bullshit when the cliques die, once and for all. They still exist and there is still a pack mentality to G&T. Why don't you go complain a bit more at how you've failed to "teach" me your lessons, oh condescending one? When the pack/mob/clique/circle-jerk overreacts and calls someone an asshole when they aren't an asshole and does this time and time and time and time and time again as a forum, then there's a big problem.
Seriously, go read the thread again if you need a mental refresher. I think there's a serious problem in G&T if posters and moderators think that Zephos' posts were out of line. They weren't. James Kim acted stupidly. And the first response was "you are a fucking cunt." This is exactly how many people in G&T act about a myriad of subjects, all the way from missing CNET editors to Halo.
Being jailed is preventing me from reposting everything he wrote, so just go reread the thread. People were calling Zephos pompous and arrogant for no reason whatsoever. None of his posts were out of line. Here's the thread URL:
I think we have a fundamental disagreement here over what, exactly, the bounds of "common decency" are, and whether or not they should apply to G&T. I don't think the problem with the James Kim thread was anything the mods did, or anything we could fix with any sort of policy. If there is a G&T "clique," I don't think there's anything we can do about it at this point beyond simply not putting any sort of administration-approved stamp on it.
But I'm not going to say that there's a problem because someone who was being a cunt got called one.
DrezI’m exactly the same in real lifeRegistered Userregular
edited December 2006
Thanatos: I think it's indicative of how people treat people that disagree with them. You can have a Halo thread or a Final Fantasy thread where people act like Zodiac Brave because of a simple difference in opinion. This Zephos thing is just the latest example.
Zephos was right about the survival stuff (even though he admits he has very limited experience in the matter so...) but he could have posted decent comments. Everyone in that thread was appalling. Nevertheless, the guy was right in what he was saying, he was just sucking at how he said it.
Thanatos: I think it's indicative of how people treat people that disagree with them. You can have a Halo thread or a Final Fantasy thread where people act like Zodiac Brave because of a simple difference in opinion. This Zephos thing is just the latest example.
Thanatos: I think it's indicative of how people treat people that disagree with them. You can have a Halo thread or a Final Fantasy thread where people act like Zodiac Brave because of a simple difference in opinion. This Zephos thing is just the latest example.
And in a Halo thread or a Final Fantasy thread, I could see that as being an issue.
However, in that particular case, Zephos was acting like a cunt. He deserved what he got. If you'd like to bring up a case where maybe the treatment someone received wasn't appropriate, I think that would have a lot more relevance than anything about this James Kim thing.
Zephos was right about the survival stuff (even though he admits he has very limited experience in the matter so...) but he could have posted decent comments. Everyone in that thread was appalling. Nevertheless, the guy was right in what he was saying, he was just sucking at how he said it.
Everything in that thread was horrid, really.
Like I said earlier, others posted survival stuff, and were not called out for it.
Zephos posted survival stuff, called the deceased stupid (who, incidentally, did stay put for 6 days when there seemed there was nothing left to lose after that) while acting a superior manner, criticized his wife nursing their children to keep them alive, then whined about it in another thread that people were being too serious, and was called out and is still being called out on it.
Thanatos: I think it's indicative of how people treat people that disagree with them. You can have a Halo thread or a Final Fantasy thread where people act like Zodiac Brave because of a simple difference in opinion. This Zephos thing is just the latest example.
I shit on Sonic Rush every other time it gets mentioned. I haven't been stoned to death for it yet. aeolist thinks Phoenix Wright looks pretty fucking boring, and the fanbase here hasn't lambasted him for that.
I've seen people take things too far, but saying that G&T cannot handle dissenting opinions is stretching it at the very least.
I took one look at it before it was locked, knew I wanted no part of it, and backed off.
I wish more would have done the same.
Sixfortyfive on
poasting something foolishly foolish.
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DrezI’m exactly the same in real lifeRegistered Userregular
edited December 2006
To get this away from petty bickering, I'll just streamline my suggestion:
Unfounded character assassination should be added to the rules, similar to thread assassination. Character assassination is big problem on PA, in all subforums, and while it may work somewhere like SE++, for instance, it shouldn't have much of a place in G&T or D&D. I think everyone can agree that rampant/unfair character assassination does not foster good vibrations on any forum.
Zephos was right about the survival stuff (even though he admits he has very limited experience in the matter so...) but he could have posted decent comments. Everyone in that thread was appalling. Nevertheless, the guy was right in what he was saying, he was just sucking at how he said it.
Everything in that thread was horrid, really.
Like I said earlier, others posted survival stuff, and were not called out for it.
Zephos posted survival stuff, called the deceased stupid (who, incidentally, did stay put for 6 days when there seemed there was nothing left to lose after that) while acting a superior manner, criticized his wife nursing their children to keep them alive, then whined about it in another thread that people were being too serious, and was called out and is still being called out on it.
I think a point to be made is that, insensitive or not, Zephos comments were pretty much on topic. Calling Zephos a cunt or whatever is not.
My point exactly. Crucifying him in the thread isn't exactly the best way to handle it. The dude was right. Sure, it might have been a bit dickish but it was right.
To get this away from petty bickering, I'll just streamline my suggestion:
Unfounded character assassination should be added to the rules, similar to thread assassination. Character assassination is big problem on PA, in all subforums, and while it may work somewhere like SE++, for instance, it shouldn't have much of a place in G&T or D&D. I think everyone can agree that rampant/unfair character assassination does not foster good vibrations on any forum.
Not to sound like a broken record... but...
Can you back this statement up with evidence of it occurring?
Aroduc on
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DrezI’m exactly the same in real lifeRegistered Userregular
edited December 2006
Not to sound callous, but "evidence" is completely unimportant since I'm not making a claim. This is a brainstorming thread, and that's my brainstorm. Regardless of whether or not it has ever happened in the history of our forums, I think it would be a good rule to have and for forumers to follow. If nothing else, it would keep posts on topic instead of wasted on trying to yell someone down.
Not to sound callous, but "evidence" is completely unimportant since I'm not making a claim. This is a brainstorming thread, and that's my brainstorm. Regardless of whether or not it has ever happened in the history of our forums, I think it would be a good rule to have and for forumers to follow. If nothing else, it would keep posts on topic instead of wasted on trying to yell someone down.
Character assassination is big problem on PA, in all subforums, and while it may work somewhere like SE++, for instance, it shouldn't have much of a place in G&T or D&D.
I agree with Drez that there is a problem with posting dissenting opinions in G&T. I'll even provide an example.
When I posted in the Gears of War tourney thread that I was withdrawing because of Kewop's problems in organizing it, the thread went on for two pages about how I was being an unreasonable baby. Turns out that the tournament is going quite poorly and is pretty badly organized, but that's kind of besides the point. Because I said that Kewop was either intentionally fucking things up by giving everyone incomplete player lists or incompetent, I got destroyed for it. Phosphene said the exact same thing and nobody even said a word to him.
If you post a dissenting opinion in a thread in G&T you run the risk of making yourself a target for huge groups of posters who will come down on you like thunder. It happens all the time, including in other subforums, and I hate to see it happen at all.
With that said, the Kim thread is seriously making me consider why I spend time here.
Whiniest Man On Earth on
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DrezI’m exactly the same in real lifeRegistered Userregular
edited December 2006
Lanz:
Okay. I'll amend my point.
Character assassination is a big problem throughout human society and is a bad thing.
Is that better? PA is a part of human society and is thus potentially prone to character assassinating posts. Therefore, a rule preventing it is a good thing.
Character assassination is a big problem throughout human society and is a bad thing.
Is that better? PA is a part of human society and is thus potentially prone to character assassinating posts. Therefore, a rule preventing it is a good thing.
Unfounded character assassination is now, and has always been against the rules.
Thanatos on
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DrezI’m exactly the same in real lifeRegistered Userregular
edited December 2006
"Unfounded character assassination is now, and has always been against the rules."
I'm sure it falls under the "common sense" or "no idiocy" rules, but I think it should be explicitly stated, the same as the anti-thread assassination rule is. That way, when someone gets banned for it, there is no question as to why.
I agree with Drez that there is a problem with posting dissenting opinions in G&T. I'll even provide an example.
I don't think you can legislate this at all. This is what happens in pretty much every Internet forum ever. You say something that the "wisdom" of the crowds does not agree with, and you had better have some balls about it.
Just as much as you have a right to say what you want to, everyone else has a right to dissent. Often, mob mentality does set in, and people enjoy reiterating whatever has been said before, but that's crowds man.
And I honestly didn't think the James Kim thread was that bad. I think a lot of people overreacted on either side, but I've seen much worse at places like Digg and such.
I agree with Drez that there is a problem with posting dissenting opinions in G&T. I'll even provide an example.
When I posted in the Gears of War tourney thread that I was withdrawing because of Kewop's problems in organizing it, the thread went on for two pages about how I was being an unreasonable baby. Turns out that the tournament is going quite poorly and is pretty badly organized, but that's kind of besides the point. Because I said that Kewop was either intentionally fucking things up by giving everyone incomplete player lists or incompetent, I got destroyed for it. Phosphene said the exact same thing and nobody even said a word to him.
If you post a dissenting opinion in a thread in G&T you run the risk of making yourself a target for huge groups of posters who will come down on you like thunder. It happens all the time, including in other subforums, and I hate to see it happen at all.
With that said, the Kim thread is seriously making me consider why I spend time here.
It's going to sound broken record-y but I think that one of the causes of this is the lack of the Megathreads. Take Gears of War for example, if I hated the game, I would feel wrong going into the specific Gears of War thread and bitching about it because chances are the people in the thread specific to that game are there because they really like it. If I started a thread to complain about it so I didn't derail theirs, chances are it would be locked and referred to the GOW thread. When there was a general place to discuss all the games on a system without focus on one title, it seemed like a much more open discussion on a game's virtues or faults was possible. Just my two cents.
BTW, just picked GOW because it's popular, I haven't even played it...
And also, I wish I hadn't read the Kim thread. It should have been locked well before reaching the point it did.
With that said, the Kim thread is seriously making me consider why I spend time here.
I'd just like to point out that this sort of thing is really dumb. Not just you defrag, I've seen a few people say this.
A thread you really don't like is usually just the result of a few people and is hardly representative of the entire forum.
It is a little ridiculous. 90% of that thread was dudes commenting on how sad Kim's death was.
Anime Owns on
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DrezI’m exactly the same in real lifeRegistered Userregular
edited December 2006
"Take Gears of War for example, if I hated the game, I would feel wrong going into the specific Gears of War thread and bitching about it because chances are the people in the thread specific to that game are there because they really like it."
That's precisely it, thank you. That's the problem.
I want to know, once and for all, if these are discussion threads or appreciation threads? If I start a thread about System Shock 2 titled "System Shock 2" - am I starting a thread to discuss it, or am I starting an appreciation thread?
I personally consider all threads not marked as "- appreciation thread" as a discussion thread. Therefore, not only should the posters be allowed to present opinions that may cast the thread subject in a bad light, but the mods should also work toward protecting these people.
I don't agree that we need megathreads to combat this. I think posters should try to act more adult and the proper legislation, to answer Lewisham, would be to jail/ban posters that simply shout down people that treat threads like fair discussion threads rather than appreciation threads.
I agree with Drez that there is a problem with posting dissenting opinions in G&T. I'll even provide an example.
When I posted in the Gears of War tourney thread that I was withdrawing because of Kewop's problems in organizing it, the thread went on for two pages about how I was being an unreasonable baby. Turns out that the tournament is going quite poorly and is pretty badly organized, but that's kind of besides the point. Because I said that Kewop was either intentionally fucking things up by giving everyone incomplete player lists or incompetent, I got destroyed for it. Phosphene said the exact same thing and nobody even said a word to him.
If you post a dissenting opinion in a thread in G&T you run the risk of making yourself a target for huge groups of posters who will come down on you like thunder. It happens all the time, including in other subforums, and I hate to see it happen at all.
With that said, the Kim thread is seriously making me consider why I spend time here.
You called someone stupid and incompetent and they flamed you back. Honestly, both of you (and a couple bystanders) should probably have been jailed. Some others agreed with you, others didn't, though most seemed to just want to play the game, which I find kind of hard to classify as coming down on you like the hammer of Thor.
I really truly don't think these things happen because you express a dissenting opinion, but because people do it with vehemence and make it personal instead of bothering to back it up by explanations or rationalizations. I have a severe lack of respect for Final Fantasy Tactics and I have a perverse sort of glee for bringing that up whenever people start carrying torches around for how it was such a 'original' and wonderful game, and I'm never flamed for it. I'm sure if I did the same thing but instead went into an FFT thread and said "Oh my fucking god, this game is basically just a plagarizing knock-off because Square chose to buy their competition," there would be quite a different response from the boards.
Saying things harshly and being belligerent about your opinion being the only correct one has never been 'protected' speech on the boards. It's nice to say "olol opinions," but there are certainly opinions more valid than others and you learn that by how people argue for them and what evidence or rationalizations they use. If you're going to be an ass about presenting them and go out of your way to try to rile people up, then of course you're going to get groups galvanizing against you, no matter what the opinion may be.
Wait, strategery was still available but not on my draft list?
This is so fucking ridiculous.
EDIT: On second thought, unless convinced otherwise, I'm going to pull out of this. There's too much stupidity going on with the draft already for me to think that the league will go very well down the line. Good luck everyone.
Wow.
You could have really phrased that better. It's little wonder shit went down.
"Take Gears of War for example, if I hated the game, I would feel wrong going into the specific Gears of War thread and bitching about it because chances are the people in the thread specific to that game are there because they really like it."
That's precisely it, thank you. That's the problem.
I want to know, once and for all, if these are discussion threads or appreciation threads? If I start a thread about System Shock 2 titled "System Shock 2" - am I starting a thread to discuss it, or am I starting an appreciation thread?
I personally consider all threads not marked as "- appreciation thread" as a discussion thread. Therefore, not only should the posters be allowed to present opinions that may cast the thread subject in a bad light, but the mods should also work toward protecting these people.
I don't agree that we need megathreads to combat this. I think posters should try to act more adult and the proper legislation, to answer Lewisham, would be to jail/ban posters that simply shout down people that treat threads like fair discussion threads rather than appreciation threads.
I agree we SHOULDN'T need megathreads to combat it - but it does seem to be one of the only solutions. The main issue I see is if we allow every thread to be a discussion thread (which I would love, don't get me wrong) is that if you have 10 pages of positive stuff about the game then someone chimes in with "I really don't like this game for these reasons" then it doesn't matter how well they think it out, there will be some people who will accuse them of derailing the thread or trolling.
One of the best discussions I remember recently was a Rule of Rose thread which really became this great discussion of the game and of the genre in general. Different opinions were all over the place and it really was a great example of what would be ideal.
I really truly don't think these things happen because you express a dissenting opinion, but because people do it with vehemence and make it personal instead of bothering to back it up by explanations or rationalizations.
I agree with you Aroduc but how do you then explain stuff that happened in the Wii thread constantly? It was a place were I saw several cases of guys attacking someone because they offered dissenting opinions. Like when Rankenphile posted or I said that I was worried about the Wii have bad 3rd-party ports and got accused several times by people saying "All you do is shit on the Wii."
I think G&T has problems with being clique-ish but I don't know if I really support more forum policies. G&T is what it is and I think sometimes it should be left to it's own devices a little more. I pretty much use only G&T for information anymore and never for the community. oDaM's my new home anyways.
I also agree with the sentiment that G&T has been dying recently, it seems like it has gotten the community spirit kicked out of it. As much as the Admins want, SE++ will never the forum's entire "community hangout place". It's one community and G&T was another. I don't think G&T's current status is or should be the Mod Team's status but I don't think they should deceiving themselves that everyone on these forums will flock to SE++. SE++ers are cool and it's a place for them to chill. That's cool and fine, it doesn't need to be "molded" for everyone.
I agree with you Aroduc but how do you then explain stuff that happened in the Wii thread constantly? It was a place were I saw several cases of guys attacking someone because they offered dissenting opinions. Like when Rankenphile posted or I said that I was worried about the Wii have bad 3rd-party ports and got accused several times by people saying "All you do is shit on the Wii."
I imagine "I'm going to go troll G&T" possibly had something to do with it.
I agree with you Aroduc but how do you then explain stuff that happened in the Wii thread constantly? It was a place were I saw several cases of guys attacking someone because they offered dissenting opinions. Like when Rankenphile posted or I said that I was worried about the Wii have bad 3rd-party ports and got accused several times by people saying "All you do is shit on the Wii."
I imagine "I'm going to go troll G&T" possibly had something to do with it.
I never fucking said that and all Rankenphile did was post that he had played the Wii and that he thought it was merely ok. I'm not sure who you are addressing here but if you are accusing me of trolling G&T, you can try getting your facts straight.
I agree with you Aroduc but how do you then explain stuff that happened in the Wii thread constantly? It was a place were I saw several cases of guys attacking someone because they offered dissenting opinions. Like when Rankenphile posted or I said that I was worried about the Wii have bad 3rd-party ports and got accused several times by people saying "All you do is shit on the Wii."
I imagine "I'm going to go troll G&T" possibly had something to do with it.
I never fucking said that and all Rankenphile did was post that he had played the Wii and that he thought it was merely ok. I'm not sure who you are addressing here but if you are accusing me of trolling G&T, you can try getting your facts straight.
I think he's refering to Rankenphile. I won't comment further on that as I can't remember all the timestamps for hte corresponding posts (or the exact wording at that) that'd prove things one way or another as to the intent to troll from that incident
Wait, strategery was still available but not on my draft list?
This is so fucking ridiculous.
EDIT: On second thought, unless convinced otherwise, I'm going to pull out of this. There's too much stupidity going on with the draft already for me to think that the league will go very well down the line. Good luck everyone.
Wow.
You could have really phrased that better. It's little wonder shit went down.
Personally, I don't see what's wrong with that. Kewop handed out draft lists that were short of a bunch of people not once, but twice, and even admitted that it was just a simple copy+paste that he was screwing up. Saying that there's stupidity going on with the draft doesn't equate to me calling Kewop stupid. I did call him incompetent, and I stand by that - I tried to work it out with him in PMs and he basically told me to fuck off, that he wasn't interested.
Ardouc: Using the link you provided, I can see nowhere that I called anyone stupid, and I only said that Kewop was incompetent after he called me a baby. "There's too much stupidity going on with the draft" does not equal "Kewop, you're stupid." in any language. I agree that I probably should've backed off after I just quit, but I still see it as a good example of the kind of thing Drez is talking about.
In this case, I backed it up with very simple evidence and I think it was quite well-rationalized - I will happily read the forums for a while to find other examples of them and bring them to this thread's attention. It shouldn't take long at all.
So is this going to degenerate into petty squabbling or what? Because I mean I bought whiskey but it turns out I hate whiskey so I don't think I can really take this right now.
If you don't believe "this is so fucking ridiculous" could not have been phrased in a way that would have been less confrontational/upsetting then I am afraid you will encounter a lot more "character assassination".
Lewisham on
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DrezI’m exactly the same in real lifeRegistered Userregular
edited December 2006
Aroduc wrote: I imagine "I'm going to go troll G&T" possibly had something to do with it.
And he said that AFTER he started participating in the thread and people tried to character assassinate him, if you do some searching and read timestamps.
Thank you though, I had forgotten the incident. I suppose I could submit this as Exhibit A.
on a completely unrelated topic, scrolling through the SE++ Kim thread and coming across a guy in what appears to be bondage gear, I've really got to ask, should I just consider the entire subforum NSFW or what? cause there was also that time I came across one MS Paint thread to discover a myriad of MS Paint genitalia, and I honestly don't know if I can surf SE++ on campus at this point.
on a completely unrelated topic, scrolling through the SE++ Kim thread and coming across a guy in what appears to be bondage gear, I've really got to ask, should I just consider the entire subforum NSFW or what? cause there was also that time I came across one MS Paint thread to discover a myriad of MS Paint genitalia, and I honestly don't know if I can surf SE++ on campus at this point.
I'll tag the paint thread, can you like me to the bondage thing and I'll take care of it.
Posts
I'll stop the clique bullshit when the cliques die, once and for all. They still exist and there is still a pack mentality to G&T. Why don't you go complain a bit more at how you've failed to "teach" me your lessons, oh condescending one? When the pack/mob/clique/circle-jerk overreacts and calls someone an asshole when they aren't an asshole and does this time and time and time and time and time again as a forum, then there's a big problem.
What I'm getting now from your argument is "I agree with Zephos, so you guys arguing against him are cocks"
Good to know. :?
But I'm not going to say that there's a problem because someone who was being a cunt got called one.
Everything in that thread was horrid, really.
Can you back this statement up with evidence?
However, in that particular case, Zephos was acting like a cunt. He deserved what he got. If you'd like to bring up a case where maybe the treatment someone received wasn't appropriate, I think that would have a lot more relevance than anything about this James Kim thing.
Like I said earlier, others posted survival stuff, and were not called out for it.
Zephos posted survival stuff, called the deceased stupid (who, incidentally, did stay put for 6 days when there seemed there was nothing left to lose after that) while acting a superior manner, criticized his wife nursing their children to keep them alive, then whined about it in another thread that people were being too serious, and was called out and is still being called out on it.
I've seen people take things too far, but saying that G&T cannot handle dissenting opinions is stretching it at the very least.
I took one look at it before it was locked, knew I wanted no part of it, and backed off.
I wish more would have done the same.
Unfounded character assassination should be added to the rules, similar to thread assassination. Character assassination is big problem on PA, in all subforums, and while it may work somewhere like SE++, for instance, it shouldn't have much of a place in G&T or D&D. I think everyone can agree that rampant/unfair character assassination does not foster good vibrations on any forum.
My point exactly. Crucifying him in the thread isn't exactly the best way to handle it. The dude was right. Sure, it might have been a bit dickish but it was right.
I don't think it's that big of an issue though.
Not to sound like a broken record... but...
Can you back this statement up with evidence of it occurring?
Uh, yes. You Are.
When I posted in the Gears of War tourney thread that I was withdrawing because of Kewop's problems in organizing it, the thread went on for two pages about how I was being an unreasonable baby. Turns out that the tournament is going quite poorly and is pretty badly organized, but that's kind of besides the point. Because I said that Kewop was either intentionally fucking things up by giving everyone incomplete player lists or incompetent, I got destroyed for it. Phosphene said the exact same thing and nobody even said a word to him.
If you post a dissenting opinion in a thread in G&T you run the risk of making yourself a target for huge groups of posters who will come down on you like thunder. It happens all the time, including in other subforums, and I hate to see it happen at all.
With that said, the Kim thread is seriously making me consider why I spend time here.
Okay. I'll amend my point.
Character assassination is a big problem throughout human society and is a bad thing.
Is that better? PA is a part of human society and is thus potentially prone to character assassinating posts. Therefore, a rule preventing it is a good thing.
I'm sure it falls under the "common sense" or "no idiocy" rules, but I think it should be explicitly stated, the same as the anti-thread assassination rule is. That way, when someone gets banned for it, there is no question as to why.
I don't think you can legislate this at all. This is what happens in pretty much every Internet forum ever. You say something that the "wisdom" of the crowds does not agree with, and you had better have some balls about it.
Just as much as you have a right to say what you want to, everyone else has a right to dissent. Often, mob mentality does set in, and people enjoy reiterating whatever has been said before, but that's crowds man.
And I honestly didn't think the James Kim thread was that bad. I think a lot of people overreacted on either side, but I've seen much worse at places like Digg and such.
It's going to sound broken record-y but I think that one of the causes of this is the lack of the Megathreads. Take Gears of War for example, if I hated the game, I would feel wrong going into the specific Gears of War thread and bitching about it because chances are the people in the thread specific to that game are there because they really like it. If I started a thread to complain about it so I didn't derail theirs, chances are it would be locked and referred to the GOW thread. When there was a general place to discuss all the games on a system without focus on one title, it seemed like a much more open discussion on a game's virtues or faults was possible. Just my two cents.
BTW, just picked GOW because it's popular, I haven't even played it...
And also, I wish I hadn't read the Kim thread. It should have been locked well before reaching the point it did.
I'd just like to point out that this sort of thing is really dumb. Not just you defrag, I've seen a few people say this.
A thread you really don't like is usually just the result of a few people and is hardly representative of the entire forum.
It is a little ridiculous. 90% of that thread was dudes commenting on how sad Kim's death was.
That's precisely it, thank you. That's the problem.
I want to know, once and for all, if these are discussion threads or appreciation threads? If I start a thread about System Shock 2 titled "System Shock 2" - am I starting a thread to discuss it, or am I starting an appreciation thread?
I personally consider all threads not marked as "- appreciation thread" as a discussion thread. Therefore, not only should the posters be allowed to present opinions that may cast the thread subject in a bad light, but the mods should also work toward protecting these people.
I don't agree that we need megathreads to combat this. I think posters should try to act more adult and the proper legislation, to answer Lewisham, would be to jail/ban posters that simply shout down people that treat threads like fair discussion threads rather than appreciation threads.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=24996001#24996001
You called someone stupid and incompetent and they flamed you back. Honestly, both of you (and a couple bystanders) should probably have been jailed. Some others agreed with you, others didn't, though most seemed to just want to play the game, which I find kind of hard to classify as coming down on you like the hammer of Thor.
I really truly don't think these things happen because you express a dissenting opinion, but because people do it with vehemence and make it personal instead of bothering to back it up by explanations or rationalizations. I have a severe lack of respect for Final Fantasy Tactics and I have a perverse sort of glee for bringing that up whenever people start carrying torches around for how it was such a 'original' and wonderful game, and I'm never flamed for it. I'm sure if I did the same thing but instead went into an FFT thread and said "Oh my fucking god, this game is basically just a plagarizing knock-off because Square chose to buy their competition," there would be quite a different response from the boards.
Saying things harshly and being belligerent about your opinion being the only correct one has never been 'protected' speech on the boards. It's nice to say "olol opinions," but there are certainly opinions more valid than others and you learn that by how people argue for them and what evidence or rationalizations they use. If you're going to be an ass about presenting them and go out of your way to try to rile people up, then of course you're going to get groups galvanizing against you, no matter what the opinion may be.
Wow.
You could have really phrased that better. It's little wonder shit went down.
I agree we SHOULDN'T need megathreads to combat it - but it does seem to be one of the only solutions. The main issue I see is if we allow every thread to be a discussion thread (which I would love, don't get me wrong) is that if you have 10 pages of positive stuff about the game then someone chimes in with "I really don't like this game for these reasons" then it doesn't matter how well they think it out, there will be some people who will accuse them of derailing the thread or trolling.
One of the best discussions I remember recently was a Rule of Rose thread which really became this great discussion of the game and of the genre in general. Different opinions were all over the place and it really was a great example of what would be ideal.
I think G&T has problems with being clique-ish but I don't know if I really support more forum policies. G&T is what it is and I think sometimes it should be left to it's own devices a little more. I pretty much use only G&T for information anymore and never for the community. oDaM's my new home anyways.
I also agree with the sentiment that G&T has been dying recently, it seems like it has gotten the community spirit kicked out of it. As much as the Admins want, SE++ will never the forum's entire "community hangout place". It's one community and G&T was another. I don't think G&T's current status is or should be the Mod Team's status but I don't think they should deceiving themselves that everyone on these forums will flock to SE++. SE++ers are cool and it's a place for them to chill. That's cool and fine, it doesn't need to be "molded" for everyone.
I imagine "I'm going to go troll G&T" possibly had something to do with it.
I never fucking said that and all Rankenphile did was post that he had played the Wii and that he thought it was merely ok. I'm not sure who you are addressing here but if you are accusing me of trolling G&T, you can try getting your facts straight.
I think he's refering to Rankenphile. I won't comment further on that as I can't remember all the timestamps for hte corresponding posts (or the exact wording at that) that'd prove things one way or another as to the intent to troll from that incident
Personally, I don't see what's wrong with that. Kewop handed out draft lists that were short of a bunch of people not once, but twice, and even admitted that it was just a simple copy+paste that he was screwing up. Saying that there's stupidity going on with the draft doesn't equate to me calling Kewop stupid. I did call him incompetent, and I stand by that - I tried to work it out with him in PMs and he basically told me to fuck off, that he wasn't interested.
Ardouc: Using the link you provided, I can see nowhere that I called anyone stupid, and I only said that Kewop was incompetent after he called me a baby. "There's too much stupidity going on with the draft" does not equal "Kewop, you're stupid." in any language. I agree that I probably should've backed off after I just quit, but I still see it as a good example of the kind of thing Drez is talking about.
In this case, I backed it up with very simple evidence and I think it was quite well-rationalized - I will happily read the forums for a while to find other examples of them and bring them to this thread's attention. It shouldn't take long at all.
If you don't believe "this is so fucking ridiculous" could not have been phrased in a way that would have been less confrontational/upsetting then I am afraid you will encounter a lot more "character assassination".
Rankenphile never said that.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=24790242&highlight=#24790242
And he said that AFTER he started participating in the thread and people tried to character assassinate him, if you do some searching and read timestamps.
Thank you though, I had forgotten the incident. I suppose I could submit this as Exhibit A.
I'll tag the paint thread, can you like me to the bondage thing and I'll take care of it.
no the entire forum is not nsfw
It only takes a few total wankers to ruin a forum. EG: Mad_Morlock single handedly killed D&D for several weeks.