If i ever see any of you dudes hiding under the no mercy ramp i'm not going to let that shit go.
The closet isn't so bad because as mentioned before its possible to smoker someone out while the team is stunned. I mean that's a move you have to rely on in the elevator scene itself. closet or not you won't do shit as smoker unless you tongue during that ridiculously short stun period.
I want them to chang up reloading and meleeing. Being able to melee while reloading seems a bit ridiculous, and it completely trivialises fighting hordes. It also makes boomer pointless against a team that isn't stupid, i've had plenty of times when i've gunked 3-4 people and got 0 points because they just stand by a wall and hold right click.
Much like the survivors, the infected HAVE to co-ordinate and work together. It's very difficult for any one infected to get any points purely by their own actions, the game isn't geared that way. You could just as easily say that shooting the smoker's tongue or the captured survivor should be removed as well, because the smoker almost never gets any points either, the survivor's usually freed before then.
I've also gunked plenty of people and gotten zero points, usually when going it on my own. Some other times, though, even when working with a team, I've still had zero points personally, but because of my actions we were able to pin down the survivors and separate and get rid of one of them from the group.
I’ll tell you what happens in Demon’s Souls when you die. You come back as a ghost with your health capped at half. And when you keep on dying, the alignment of the world turns black and the enemies get harder. That’s right, when you fail in this game, it gets harder. Why? Because fuck you is why.
I'm hoping Valve patches in some changes for melee and the closet. Fixing melee corners/closets will make vs. actually fun again.
Versus is fun. You have to remember, Versus is still all about the survivors. It's the story of the survivors, they are the main characters in the movie, the Infected are just supporting cast. That's why survivor points count and infected points don't. The problem is, people are better at playing survivor than infected. All the times I've been trounced in versus is because there is almost no communication on the Infected side of things. The thing about corners and closets is, they're stationary, and the Survivors have a very definite destination in mind. They have to move at some point, so stop being completely stupid and throwing yourselves against an entrenched position one at a time. There are ways to break it up and get some good damage in on corners and closets, IF YOU ARE COORDINATED, but I prefer to just wait until they move again.
I know you didn't make this point, but some people also want the smoker and hunter to be able to release their victims. I hope above all else that this doesn't happen. It doesn't make sense at all. You are playing a creature that has been infected with a disease, the nature of which makes you incredibly violent and has stripped away your personality and humanity. So why would you run away if you've got one in your grip and are finally satisfying your bloodlust?
Besides, can you imagine how easily a decent pair of hunters could destroy a team of survivors? Land a big damage pounce, then immediately leap away. Rinse. Repeat.
Make it a risk/reward thing. You can let go of the survivor, but you're stunned/slowed for a couple of seconds while you emerge from your bloodlust haze. That way there's no guarentee you're getting away.
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The thing I'd like to see addressed (though it probably never will be) is the damn smoker tongue itself. I hate when I've got a red reticule, and I shoot the tongue, and it hits, the survivor starts to scream, but then it releases, even though they were all alone, nobody shot at them, me, or the tongue. It seems to me that they just yanked themselves out of it by continuing to move or something.
It's usually when I'm trying to yank somebody off the awning in NM3, or when I'm trying to grab the last survivor before they drop down the hole to the sewers.
The only thing worse is when the survivor is stationary, the reticule is red, and I hit the trigger and exactly nothing happens, except the meter has to recharge, I've made a noise, and they're now looking for me.
The thing I'd like to see addressed (though it probably never will be) is the damn smoker tongue itself. I hate when I've got a red reticule, and I shoot the tongue, and it hits, the survivor starts to scream, but then it releases, even though they were all alone, nobody shot at them, me, or the tongue. It seems to me that they just yanked themselves out of it by continuing to move or something.
It's usually when I'm trying to yank somebody off the awning in NM3, or when I'm trying to grab the last survivor before they drop down the hole to the sewers.
The only thing worse is when the survivor is stationary, the reticule is red, and I hit the trigger and exactly nothing happens, except the meter has to recharge, I've made a noise, and they're not looking for me.
what gets me is when there's two possible targets, i have the reticule distinctly aimed at one person, when I fire the tongue goes off at an angle and tries to grab another person... usually the person that's walking around a corner.
The thing I'd like to see addressed (though it probably never will be) is the damn smoker tongue itself. I hate when I've got a red reticule, and I shoot the tongue, and it hits, the survivor starts to scream, but then it releases, even though they were all alone, nobody shot at them, me, or the tongue. It seems to me that they just yanked themselves out of it by continuing to move or something.
It's usually when I'm trying to yank somebody off the awning in NM3, or when I'm trying to grab the last survivor before they drop down the hole to the sewers.
The only thing worse is when the survivor is stationary, the reticule is red, and I hit the trigger and exactly nothing happens, except the meter has to recharge, I've made a noise, and they're not looking for me.
what gets me is when there's two possible targets, i have the reticule distinctly aimed at one person, when I fire the tongue goes off at an angle and tries to grab another person... usually the person that's walking around a corner.
Crap! I'd forgotten about that! That sucks even more! I've seen angles of over 45 degrees too! If it's not the guy going around the corner, it's one of the three survivors clustered together on the extreme left side of my screen, and not the one that's nice and separated that I was aiming at in the dead center of my screen.
I'm pretty sure the smoker tounge breaks if something gets between the smoker and the smokee before the drag animation starts. If they're running by pillars and I'm in what I think is a good spot, I can't grab them because if they start to move slightly behind one, it breaks. Same goes for normal infecteds, which is just stupid. I should be able to grab a human through zombies, damnit.
Smoker is still my favorite though. A good smoker grab can really screw up a team.
I just played on a Vs server where everyone on my team left, leaving me and 3 bots against four infected. Somehow they took control of the bots and made them all kill themselves, so it was just me. Against four. It was the No Mercy ending and I managed to get all the way to the second level of the elevator shaft and knew better than to go out the roof because I could hear all four of them up there just waiting for me. So I hung out there and killed four or five of them till a hunter got me.
Then they said "Nice Try, lolz" and they all left.
I'm pretty sure the smoker tounge breaks if something gets between the smoker and the smokee before the drag animation starts. If they're running by pillars and I'm in what I think is a good spot, I can't grab them because if they start to move slightly behind one, it breaks. Same goes for normal infecteds, which is just stupid. I should be able to grab a human through zombies, damnit.
Smoker is still my favorite though. A good smoker grab can really screw up a team.
Well, yes, but sometimes there's nothing between me and the target, and it still breaks.
Also, outlines of infected players in spawn mode count as obstructions.
I play versus with the mindset that it isn't balanced and it's just supposed to be fun. For those of you who like to win, it might not be your thing. But for those of you that are like me and enjoy watching everything go wrong for either (or both) teams, versus is hilarious. Last VS game I played my team got about 55-60 points per level as the Survivors, while the other team completed every single level for hundreds of points. We closed the gap in the finale when we got about 2300 points and they got half of that, but they still had more in the end. Some of it was because of us, some of it was just plain bad luck. Like a Tank spawning on level 4 of Blood Harvest, maybe 30 feet from the starting point.
There definitely needs to be a melee slowing mechanic. Call it fatigue and add a new "energy" bar, I dont care, just do something about it.
Melee spam trivializes the challenge that this game is supposed to have.
Are you talking co-op or VS here?
Both, I'd wager. The Blood Harvest finale is literally "Fire, melee while reloading, grab ammo." Just duck in the corner next to the weapon cabinet and I guarantee you won't lose anybody during the horde attacks.
It's only an issue to me when I play as Infected, because crescendo events would make perfect opportunities to kill survivors if it weren't for them being invincible.
I just played on a Vs server where everyone on my team left, leaving me and 3 bots against four infected. Somehow they took control of the bots and made them all kill themselves, so it was just me. Against four. It was the No Mercy ending and I managed to get all the way to the second level of the elevator shaft and knew better than to go out the roof because I could hear all four of them up there just waiting for me. So I hung out there and killed four or five of them till a hunter got me.
Then they said "Nice Try, lolz" and they all left.
...what's that shit?
That's actually happened to me before, except they weren't smart enough to man the roof hatch. I got all the way to the radio before I was smoker boom huntered in that order. Given this is just ME vs 4 of them. Although my annoying send off was "LOL what a nub."
Seriously? Some pubbies need to kill themselves, they're clearly making the human race de-evolve.
There definitely needs to be a melee slowing mechanic. Call it fatigue and add a new "energy" bar, I dont care, just do something about it.
Melee spam trivializes the challenge that this game is supposed to have.
Are you talking co-op or VS here?
Both, I'd wager. The Blood Harvest finale is literally "Fire, melee while reloading, grab ammo." Just duck in the corner next to the weapon cabinet and I guarantee you won't lose anybody during the horde attacks.
It's only an issue to me when I play as Infected, because crescendo events would make perfect opportunities to kill survivors if it weren't for them being invincible.
On co-op that sounds like more an issue with level design. Because if anyone's finding Expert setting too easy here they are a freaking robot.
I'd also say similar for the Vs example you give. I mean things like the ramp in No Mercy need to be changed, but realistically, BOTH sides have the same advantages when it's their turn, and outside of random spawning issues it's all about how you work together to take down the other team before they can get too far or with too much health. The infected are supposed to be at a disadvantage.
If infected scores actually counted for anything, then maybe I'd be more concerned, but otherwise, I don't really see it as a problem, at least not with the melee mechanic itself.
I just played on a Vs server where everyone on my team left, leaving me and 3 bots against four infected. Somehow they took control of the bots and made them all kill themselves, so it was just me. Against four. It was the No Mercy ending and I managed to get all the way to the second level of the elevator shaft and knew better than to go out the roof because I could hear all four of them up there just waiting for me. So I hung out there and killed four or five of them till a hunter got me.
Then they said "Nice Try, lolz" and they all left.
...what's that shit?
That's actually happened to me before, except they weren't smart enough to man the roof hatch. I got all the way to the radio before I was smoker boom huntered in that order. Given this is just ME vs 4 of them. Although my annoying send off was "LOL what a nub."
Seriously? Some pubbies need to kill themselves, they're clearly making the human race de-evolve.
Can you imagine the reverse? If you pitted one pub vs. 4 PA folk?
Right, that would never happen because they'd all quit together.
There definitely needs to be a melee slowing mechanic. Call it fatigue and add a new "energy" bar, I dont care, just do something about it.
Melee spam trivializes the challenge that this game is supposed to have.
Are you talking co-op or VS here?
Both, I'd wager. The Blood Harvest finale is literally "Fire, melee while reloading, grab ammo." Just duck in the corner next to the weapon cabinet and I guarantee you won't lose anybody during the horde attacks.
It's only an issue to me when I play as Infected, because crescendo events would make perfect opportunities to kill survivors if it weren't for them being invincible.
On co-op that sounds like more an issue with level design. Because if anyone's finding Expert setting too easy here they are a freaking robot.
I'd also say similar for the Vs example you give. I mean things like the ramp in No Mercy need to be changed, but realistically, BOTH sides have the same advantages when it's their turn, and outside of random spawning issues it's all about how you work together to take down the other team before they can get too far or with too much health. The infected are supposed to be at a disadvantage.
If infected scores actually counted for anything, then maybe I'd be more concerned, but otherwise, I don't really see it as a problem, at least not with the melee mechanic itself.
Yeah, I'm talking about both. Expert *IS* easy with Melee spam. Get in closet, spam melee, wait for tank. Tank comes, light it up, run around like a maniac for 40 seconds. Done, collect achievements. Where's the challenge in that?
I'd also say similar for the Vs example you give. I mean things like the ramp in No Mercy need to be changed, but realistically, BOTH sides have the same advantages when it's their turn, and outside of random spawning issues it's all about how you work together to take down the other team before they can get too far or with too much health. The infected are supposed to be at a disadvantage.
I just don't feel that way, I guess. It's like saying cheating is acceptable as long as both teams are doing it. It's not fun to wait around as a Hunter or Boomer for 3 minutes while you watch the survivors fend off a horde spawn without any trouble at all. Those should be key times to take out survivors.
There definitely needs to be a melee slowing mechanic. Call it fatigue and add a new "energy" bar, I dont care, just do something about it.
Melee spam trivializes the challenge that this game is supposed to have.
Are you talking co-op or VS here?
Both, I'd wager. The Blood Harvest finale is literally "Fire, melee while reloading, grab ammo." Just duck in the corner next to the weapon cabinet and I guarantee you won't lose anybody during the horde attacks.
It's only an issue to me when I play as Infected, because crescendo events would make perfect opportunities to kill survivors if it weren't for them being invincible.
On co-op that sounds like more an issue with level design. Because if anyone's finding Expert setting too easy here they are a freaking robot.
I'd also say similar for the Vs example you give. I mean things like the ramp in No Mercy need to be changed, but realistically, BOTH sides have the same advantages when it's their turn, and outside of random spawning issues it's all about how you work together to take down the other team before they can get too far or with too much health. The infected are supposed to be at a disadvantage.
If infected scores actually counted for anything, then maybe I'd be more concerned, but otherwise, I don't really see it as a problem, at least not with the melee mechanic itself.
Yeah, I'm talking about both. Expert *IS* easy with Melee spam. Get in closet, spam melee, wait for tank. Tank comes, light it up, run around like a maniac for 40 seconds. Done, collect achievements. Where's the challenge in that?
You should take away unlimited pistol ammo too. And respawn closets.
I didn't deserve that Expendable
I didn't intend for the tone to be so bitchy, since you're a nice guy and all. Just saying, even with melee the way it is now, I find Expert to be horrendously challenging. Maybe I just don't hit the button fast enough or something. Yeah, the closets are nice, but a zombie can still get a hit on you, and that's 20 health gone in a flash. Then the inevitable moment comes where you have to leave the closet.
I dislike the melee closet strategy. I think Valve should make those closet doors locked unless there's a survivor in them. That way you couldn't hide in them at all in Versus since survivors don't respawn, and you'd have to be kind of... resourceful... to have one to hide in in Co-op.
There are some places that are decent melee pile areas, like the weapons pile in Blood Harvest's finale house. But that is by no means an unstoppable location. Usually 2-3 survivors are piled in the corner and one's on the table, or all 4 are in the corner. Simplest solution to this, as infected, is have your boomer go in the front door, quick turn the corner and vomit. Best case scenario, you get all 4 survivors blinded, possibly stunned. Worst case scenario, you get 2-3 survivors blinded and not stunned. At that point your hunters run in and right-click melee swipe. I think a lot of people don't realize hunter melee does 10 damage and hits everyone your claw does... so if 4 people are stacked in a corner, one swipe does 40 damage total.
It's not terribly hard to watch the outlines through the wall and wait till they're not firing, or not melee'ing, or whatever. Even blinded survivor teams reload, or turn around and grab weapons, etc. You run in and swipe, either you hit then die, or get melee'd back and can try again. You can wear down the survivors and even incapacitate them if you work together... I've seen it done and done it myself.
Of course, the easiest thing to do is just make that back wall breakable, and move the weapons from the cabinet to a table somewhere. I'd applaud that too, and while they're at it, the bathroom upstairs is basically a survivor closet with decorations.
There should be places for survivors to defend... but they shouldn't be narrow doorway single entrance closets.
And smoker really needs a buff. Hunter is so good (high damage pounces are my new narcotic of choice, it's so sweet when they are pulled off), Boomer is so useful, but I feel that the Smoker only has a limited set of circumstances where he's good. Of course, at those times he's usually devastatingly good, like pulling survivors off the awning in No Mercy after the warehouse lift, etc. Maybe make the tongue not melee-off-able? I don't really like the idea of the smoke cloud doing damage over time; infected shouldn't be encouraged to suicide. Even the boomer is better off getting in a puke, waiting till the puke runs out, and then puking again or suiciding if it's not recharged.
I play versus with the mindset that it isn't balanced and it's just supposed to be fun. For those of you who like to win, it might not be your thing. But for those of you that are like me and enjoy watching everything go wrong for either (or both) teams, versus is hilarious. Last VS game I played my team got about 55-60 points per level as the Survivors, while the other team completed every single level for hundreds of points. We closed the gap in the finale when we got about 2300 points and they got half of that, but they still had more in the end. Some of it was because of us, some of it was just plain bad luck. Like a Tank spawning on level 4 of Blood Harvest, maybe 30 feet from the starting point.
Same here, I had a bunch of people in my team bitching last night how people were playing "fag mode meleeing" and just getting mad that we weren't winning. I just told everyone that I play for fun, I always have a blast on Vs, even if I don't win.
There are some places that are decent melee pile areas, like the weapons pile in Blood Harvest's finale house. But that is by no means an unstoppable location. Usually 2-3 survivors are piled in the corner and one's on the table, or all 4 are in the corner. Simplest solution to this, as infected, is have your boomer go in the front door, quick turn the corner and vomit. Best case scenario, you get all 4 survivors blinded, possibly stunned. Worst case scenario, you get 2-3 survivors blinded and not stunned. At that point your hunters run in and right-click melee swipe. I think a lot of people don't realize hunter melee does 10 damage and hits everyone your claw does... so if 4 people are stacked in a corner, one swipe does 40 damage total.
Boomers are unnoticeable during this finale. I know because I've been barfed on multiple times and couldn't tell the difference. Hunters won't get close enough to swipe because of melee spam. Corner whoring is, as far as I'm concerned, a strategy that can't be easily undone, even if a crappy team does it.
So I just bought this game the other day as a study break, and damn. It's everything I had hoped for. I've been waiting on this game for the better part of a year, and it lives up to all the pre-release information I read. I'm extremely happy with my purchase.
I haven't played vs. yeah as I'm still learning the maps and getting a general feel for the game (3 rounds played). My only complaint is that there are only 4 maps to play, but I feel this is somewhat a Valve standard (they always seem to release with too few maps and are slow to add them ... tf2...), although I wonder how soon the user made maps will turn up and how good they'll be.
There are some places that are decent melee pile areas, like the weapons pile in Blood Harvest's finale house. But that is by no means an unstoppable location. Usually 2-3 survivors are piled in the corner and one's on the table, or all 4 are in the corner. Simplest solution to this, as infected, is have your boomer go in the front door, quick turn the corner and vomit. Best case scenario, you get all 4 survivors blinded, possibly stunned. Worst case scenario, you get 2-3 survivors blinded and not stunned. At that point your hunters run in and right-click melee swipe. I think a lot of people don't realize hunter melee does 10 damage and hits everyone your claw does... so if 4 people are stacked in a corner, one swipe does 40 damage total.
Boomers are unnoticeable during this finale. I know because I've been barfed on multiple times and couldn't tell the difference. Hunters won't get close enough to swipe because of melee spam. Corner whoring is, as far as I'm concerned, a strategy that can't be easily undone, even if a crappy team does it.
In contrast to that, I can only remind you that the strategy I laid out does work, I've done it myself. Most groups of meleeing survivors WILL stop meleeing (even when boomer'd) when the zombies stop running. Most survivors expect hunters to pounce and they'll just melee him off after the super noticable knockback. Most survivors don't expect a hunter to dart around a corner and attack within about a third of a second's time.
Hell, sometimes you can climb in the window and jump on the table and melee. Sometimes you can jump on top of them and melee.
I think a lot of people don't realize hunter melee does 10 damage and hits everyone your claw does... so if 4 people are stacked in a corner, one swipe does 40 damage total.
I don't know about all that.
I've only ever been able to deal damage to one person at a time, much akin to the tank punch. Although, I could just be not paying close enough attention; but, I've gone out with the objective to hit two people at once, and it does not seem to work.
Not really 4 maps, but 4 campaigns with several maps in them. I've really yet to grow tired of any of them, the only I've grown accustomed to is No Mercy, but barely.
And smoker really needs a buff. Hunter is so good (high damage pounces are my new narcotic of choice, it's so sweet when they are pulled off), Boomer is so useful, but I feel that the Smoker only has a limited set of circumstances where he's good. Of course, at those times he's usually devastatingly good, like pulling survivors off the awning in No Mercy after the warehouse lift, etc. Maybe make the tongue not melee-off-able? I don't really like the idea of the smoke cloud doing damage over time; infected shouldn't be encouraged to suicide. Even the boomer is better off getting in a puke, waiting till the puke runs out, and then puking again or suiciding if it's not recharged.
The Smoker's main problem is the unreliability of his tongue, which ought to be the main advantage. A player can "snap" the tongue by walking around a corner just before the pull takes effect, and if the Smoker takes any damage at all during the pull the tongue drops. I think the simplest solution is to remove the "drop on any damage" rule. Let the Survivors be able to melee the tongue or shoot it off, or rescue the tongued guy by killing the Smoker. However, if the Smoker gets a successful grab off, it should take a drastic and deliberate effort to free the target, same as with the Hunter.
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And smoker really needs a buff. Hunter is so good (high damage pounces are my new narcotic of choice, it's so sweet when they are pulled off), Boomer is so useful, but I feel that the Smoker only has a limited set of circumstances where he's good. Of course, at those times he's usually devastatingly good, like pulling survivors off the awning in No Mercy after the warehouse lift, etc. Maybe make the tongue not melee-off-able? I don't really like the idea of the smoke cloud doing damage over time; infected shouldn't be encouraged to suicide. Even the boomer is better off getting in a puke, waiting till the puke runs out, and then puking again or suiciding if it's not recharged.
The Smoker's main problem is the unreliability of his tongue, which ought to be the main advantage. A player can "snap" the tongue by walking around a corner just before the pull takes effect, and if the Smoker takes any damage at all during the pull the tongue drops. I think the simplest solution is to remove the "drop on any damage" rule. Let the Survivors be able to melee the tongue or shoot it off, or rescue the tongued guy by killing the Smoker. However, if the Smoker gets a successful grab off, it should take a drastic and deliberate effort to free the target, same as with the Hunter.
Well that, and the fact that a random infected is enough to block his tongue all-together...or an unspawned teammate....or a passing leaf.
Also, having no control over your aim. That is a real big WTF right there.
Not really 4 maps, but 4 campaigns with several maps in them. I've really yet to grow tired of any of them, the only I've grown accustomed to is No Mercy, but barely.
Fair enough. Really it's like 20 maps, although I do consider them one large map each in my head. I'm definitely not tired of them, and I find it hard to believe I will anytime soon, but I hear that some people are already getting tired of the same maps.
(Edit.) That Crossroads mall map looks pretty damn good. User created or valve?
Also, it'd be pretty badass if someone made a level based on the town in Shaun of the Dead, with a killer pub finale.
There are some places that are decent melee pile areas, like the weapons pile in Blood Harvest's finale house. But that is by no means an unstoppable location. Usually 2-3 survivors are piled in the corner and one's on the table, or all 4 are in the corner. Simplest solution to this, as infected, is have your boomer go in the front door, quick turn the corner and vomit. Best case scenario, you get all 4 survivors blinded, possibly stunned. Worst case scenario, you get 2-3 survivors blinded and not stunned. At that point your hunters run in and right-click melee swipe. I think a lot of people don't realize hunter melee does 10 damage and hits everyone your claw does... so if 4 people are stacked in a corner, one swipe does 40 damage total.
Boomers are unnoticeable during this finale. I know because I've been barfed on multiple times and couldn't tell the difference. Hunters won't get close enough to swipe because of melee spam. Corner whoring is, as far as I'm concerned, a strategy that can't be easily undone, even if a crappy team does it.
There is a key word here. Do you see it?
Corner whoring is, as far as I'm concerned, a strategy that can't be easily undone, even if a crappy team does it.
I've narrowed it down a bit.
Corner whoring is, as far as I'm concerned, a strategy that can't be easily undone, even if a crappy team does it.
It can be done, it's just not easy. So you're complaining that corners make the game too hard.
So I'm going to point out, again, that the Survivors have to leave the corner at some point. So if you can't get them out on your own, wait and set up someplace else.
Also, to the earlier quote, the upstairs bathroom and the laundry room don't exist in the BH finale on versus. Personally, I hate using the bathroom, because when the tank shows up, everybody usually gets boomered on the way out of said bathroom.
And smoker really needs a buff. Hunter is so good (high damage pounces are my new narcotic of choice, it's so sweet when they are pulled off), Boomer is so useful, but I feel that the Smoker only has a limited set of circumstances where he's good. Of course, at those times he's usually devastatingly good, like pulling survivors off the awning in No Mercy after the warehouse lift, etc. Maybe make the tongue not melee-off-able? I don't really like the idea of the smoke cloud doing damage over time; infected shouldn't be encouraged to suicide. Even the boomer is better off getting in a puke, waiting till the puke runs out, and then puking again or suiciding if it's not recharged.
The Smoker's main problem is the unreliability of his tongue, which ought to be the main advantage. A player can "snap" the tongue by walking around a corner just before the pull takes effect, and if the Smoker takes any damage at all during the pull the tongue drops. I think the simplest solution is to remove the "drop on any damage" rule. Let the Survivors be able to melee the tongue or shoot it off, or rescue the tongued guy by killing the Smoker. However, if the Smoker gets a successful grab off, it should take a drastic and deliberate effort to free the target, same as with the Hunter.
Well that, and the fact that a random infected is enough to block his tongue all-together...or an unspawned teammate....or a passing leaf.
Also, having no control over your aim. That is a real big WTF right there.
I think I'd be happy if it required you to either melee the tongue or shoot the smoker only. Honestly, that isn't really that hard of a concept, half the time I shoot the smoker anyway because he's anchored and I'd rather kill him than sever the tongue and let him run off. That would at least take out the random fire element of his tongue breaking.
I didn't intend for the tone to be so bitchy, since you're a nice guy and all. Just saying, even with melee the way it is now, I find Expert to be horrendously challenging. Maybe I just don't hit the button fast enough or something. Yeah, the closets are nice, but a zombie can still get a hit on you, and that's 20 health gone in a flash. Then the inevitable moment comes where you have to leave the closet.
My dislike for closeting is based purely on the "spirit" of the game (as in I believe the main goal of the game is survival in a zombie infested city/park/whatever, not a zombie infested closet) and is primarily directed at Coop.
As for versus, I generally don't have a problem. As it's been said, they have to come out at some point and I just smoke/pounce the little girls once they do.
I just played on a Vs server where everyone on my team left, leaving me and 3 bots against four infected. Somehow they took control of the bots and made them all kill themselves, so it was just me. Against four. It was the No Mercy ending and I managed to get all the way to the second level of the elevator shaft and knew better than to go out the roof because I could hear all four of them up there just waiting for me. So I hung out there and killed four or five of them till a hunter got me.
Then they said "Nice Try, lolz" and they all left.
...what's that shit?
That's actually happened to me before, except they weren't smart enough to man the roof hatch. I got all the way to the radio before I was smoker boom huntered in that order. Given this is just ME vs 4 of them. Although my annoying send off was "LOL what a nub."
Seriously? Some pubbies need to kill themselves, they're clearly making the human race de-evolve.
Can you imagine the reverse? If you pitted one pub vs. 4 PA folk?
Right, that would never happen because they'd all quit together.
We did that, Sol, Mustchasio, ( a friend of mine) and I.
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The closet isn't so bad because as mentioned before its possible to smoker someone out while the team is stunned. I mean that's a move you have to rely on in the elevator scene itself. closet or not you won't do shit as smoker unless you tongue during that ridiculously short stun period.
Much like the survivors, the infected HAVE to co-ordinate and work together. It's very difficult for any one infected to get any points purely by their own actions, the game isn't geared that way. You could just as easily say that shooting the smoker's tongue or the captured survivor should be removed as well, because the smoker almost never gets any points either, the survivor's usually freed before then.
I've also gunked plenty of people and gotten zero points, usually when going it on my own. Some other times, though, even when working with a team, I've still had zero points personally, but because of my actions we were able to pin down the survivors and separate and get rid of one of them from the group.
but, then again... just about everything that anyone does in this game infuriates me.
Let me tell you about Demon's Souls....
Make it a risk/reward thing. You can let go of the survivor, but you're stunned/slowed for a couple of seconds while you emerge from your bloodlust haze. That way there's no guarentee you're getting away.
Live - MrObersmith
PSN - Obersmith
It's usually when I'm trying to yank somebody off the awning in NM3, or when I'm trying to grab the last survivor before they drop down the hole to the sewers.
The only thing worse is when the survivor is stationary, the reticule is red, and I hit the trigger and exactly nothing happens, except the meter has to recharge, I've made a noise, and they're now looking for me.
what gets me is when there's two possible targets, i have the reticule distinctly aimed at one person, when I fire the tongue goes off at an angle and tries to grab another person... usually the person that's walking around a corner.
Crap! I'd forgotten about that! That sucks even more! I've seen angles of over 45 degrees too! If it's not the guy going around the corner, it's one of the three survivors clustered together on the extreme left side of my screen, and not the one that's nice and separated that I was aiming at in the dead center of my screen.
Smoker is still my favorite though. A good smoker grab can really screw up a team.
Get on and join me you people.
Then they said "Nice Try, lolz" and they all left.
...what's that shit?
Well, yes, but sometimes there's nothing between me and the target, and it still breaks.
Also, outlines of infected players in spawn mode count as obstructions.
Melee spam trivializes the challenge that this game is supposed to have.
Are you talking co-op or VS here?
Both, I'd wager. The Blood Harvest finale is literally "Fire, melee while reloading, grab ammo." Just duck in the corner next to the weapon cabinet and I guarantee you won't lose anybody during the horde attacks.
It's only an issue to me when I play as Infected, because crescendo events would make perfect opportunities to kill survivors if it weren't for them being invincible.
You should take away unlimited pistol ammo too. And respawn closets.
That's actually happened to me before, except they weren't smart enough to man the roof hatch. I got all the way to the radio before I was smoker boom huntered in that order. Given this is just ME vs 4 of them. Although my annoying send off was "LOL what a nub."
Seriously? Some pubbies need to kill themselves, they're clearly making the human race de-evolve.
Battlenet: Judgement#1243
psn: KupoZero
On co-op that sounds like more an issue with level design. Because if anyone's finding Expert setting too easy here they are a freaking robot.
I'd also say similar for the Vs example you give. I mean things like the ramp in No Mercy need to be changed, but realistically, BOTH sides have the same advantages when it's their turn, and outside of random spawning issues it's all about how you work together to take down the other team before they can get too far or with too much health. The infected are supposed to be at a disadvantage.
If infected scores actually counted for anything, then maybe I'd be more concerned, but otherwise, I don't really see it as a problem, at least not with the melee mechanic itself.
Can you imagine the reverse? If you pitted one pub vs. 4 PA folk?
Right, that would never happen because they'd all quit together.
Yeah, I'm talking about both. Expert *IS* easy with Melee spam. Get in closet, spam melee, wait for tank. Tank comes, light it up, run around like a maniac for 40 seconds. Done, collect achievements. Where's the challenge in that?
I didn't deserve that Expendable
I just don't feel that way, I guess. It's like saying cheating is acceptable as long as both teams are doing it. It's not fun to wait around as a Hunter or Boomer for 3 minutes while you watch the survivors fend off a horde spawn without any trouble at all. Those should be key times to take out survivors.
I didn't intend for the tone to be so bitchy, since you're a nice guy and all. Just saying, even with melee the way it is now, I find Expert to be horrendously challenging. Maybe I just don't hit the button fast enough or something. Yeah, the closets are nice, but a zombie can still get a hit on you, and that's 20 health gone in a flash. Then the inevitable moment comes where you have to leave the closet.
There are some places that are decent melee pile areas, like the weapons pile in Blood Harvest's finale house. But that is by no means an unstoppable location. Usually 2-3 survivors are piled in the corner and one's on the table, or all 4 are in the corner. Simplest solution to this, as infected, is have your boomer go in the front door, quick turn the corner and vomit. Best case scenario, you get all 4 survivors blinded, possibly stunned. Worst case scenario, you get 2-3 survivors blinded and not stunned. At that point your hunters run in and right-click melee swipe. I think a lot of people don't realize hunter melee does 10 damage and hits everyone your claw does... so if 4 people are stacked in a corner, one swipe does 40 damage total.
It's not terribly hard to watch the outlines through the wall and wait till they're not firing, or not melee'ing, or whatever. Even blinded survivor teams reload, or turn around and grab weapons, etc. You run in and swipe, either you hit then die, or get melee'd back and can try again. You can wear down the survivors and even incapacitate them if you work together... I've seen it done and done it myself.
Of course, the easiest thing to do is just make that back wall breakable, and move the weapons from the cabinet to a table somewhere. I'd applaud that too, and while they're at it, the bathroom upstairs is basically a survivor closet with decorations.
There should be places for survivors to defend... but they shouldn't be narrow doorway single entrance closets.
And smoker really needs a buff. Hunter is so good (high damage pounces are my new narcotic of choice, it's so sweet when they are pulled off), Boomer is so useful, but I feel that the Smoker only has a limited set of circumstances where he's good. Of course, at those times he's usually devastatingly good, like pulling survivors off the awning in No Mercy after the warehouse lift, etc. Maybe make the tongue not melee-off-able? I don't really like the idea of the smoke cloud doing damage over time; infected shouldn't be encouraged to suicide. Even the boomer is better off getting in a puke, waiting till the puke runs out, and then puking again or suiciding if it's not recharged.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Same here, I had a bunch of people in my team bitching last night how people were playing "fag mode meleeing" and just getting mad that we weren't winning. I just told everyone that I play for fun, I always have a blast on Vs, even if I don't win.
Boomers are unnoticeable during this finale. I know because I've been barfed on multiple times and couldn't tell the difference. Hunters won't get close enough to swipe because of melee spam. Corner whoring is, as far as I'm concerned, a strategy that can't be easily undone, even if a crappy team does it.
I haven't played vs. yeah as I'm still learning the maps and getting a general feel for the game (3 rounds played). My only complaint is that there are only 4 maps to play, but I feel this is somewhat a Valve standard (they always seem to release with too few maps and are slow to add them ... tf2...), although I wonder how soon the user made maps will turn up and how good they'll be.
DO NOT FISTPOUND
In contrast to that, I can only remind you that the strategy I laid out does work, I've done it myself. Most groups of meleeing survivors WILL stop meleeing (even when boomer'd) when the zombies stop running. Most survivors expect hunters to pounce and they'll just melee him off after the super noticable knockback. Most survivors don't expect a hunter to dart around a corner and attack within about a third of a second's time.
Hell, sometimes you can climb in the window and jump on the table and melee. Sometimes you can jump on top of them and melee.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
I don't know about all that.
I've only ever been able to deal damage to one person at a time, much akin to the tank punch. Although, I could just be not paying close enough attention; but, I've gone out with the objective to hit two people at once, and it does not seem to work.
The Smoker's main problem is the unreliability of his tongue, which ought to be the main advantage. A player can "snap" the tongue by walking around a corner just before the pull takes effect, and if the Smoker takes any damage at all during the pull the tongue drops. I think the simplest solution is to remove the "drop on any damage" rule. Let the Survivors be able to melee the tongue or shoot it off, or rescue the tongued guy by killing the Smoker. However, if the Smoker gets a successful grab off, it should take a drastic and deliberate effort to free the target, same as with the Hunter.
Well that, and the fact that a random infected is enough to block his tongue all-together...or an unspawned teammate....or a passing leaf.
Also, having no control over your aim. That is a real big WTF right there.
Fair enough. Really it's like 20 maps, although I do consider them one large map each in my head. I'm definitely not tired of them, and I find it hard to believe I will anytime soon, but I hear that some people are already getting tired of the same maps.
(Edit.) That Crossroads mall map looks pretty damn good. User created or valve?
Also, it'd be pretty badass if someone made a level based on the town in Shaun of the Dead, with a killer pub finale.
DO NOT FISTPOUND
There is a key word here. Do you see it?
I've narrowed it down a bit.
It can be done, it's just not easy. So you're complaining that corners make the game too hard.
So I'm going to point out, again, that the Survivors have to leave the corner at some point. So if you can't get them out on your own, wait and set up someplace else.
Also, to the earlier quote, the upstairs bathroom and the laundry room don't exist in the BH finale on versus. Personally, I hate using the bathroom, because when the tank shows up, everybody usually gets boomered on the way out of said bathroom.
I think I'd be happy if it required you to either melee the tongue or shoot the smoker only. Honestly, that isn't really that hard of a concept, half the time I shoot the smoker anyway because he's anchored and I'd rather kill him than sever the tongue and let him run off. That would at least take out the random fire element of his tongue breaking.
DO NOT FISTPOUND
My dislike for closeting is based purely on the "spirit" of the game (as in I believe the main goal of the game is survival in a zombie infested city/park/whatever, not a zombie infested closet) and is primarily directed at Coop.
As for versus, I generally don't have a problem. As it's been said, they have to come out at some point and I just smoke/pounce the little girls once they do.
We did that, Sol, Mustchasio, ( a friend of mine) and I.
We lost.
GM: Rusty Chains (DH Ongoing)