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Pre Fight Debate Thread: Brackets 25 & 26
Doctor Doom
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Bracket 25
Mandarin
Powers: Scientific genius and skilled martial artist. Ten alien rings.
* Left Pinkie — "Ice Blast," with which he could encase foes in bands of ice or create walls of ice to block pursuers.
* Left Ring Finger — "Mental-Intensifier," which amplifies the Mandarin's own mental energies and allows him to control the minds of others.
* Left Middle Finger — "Electro Blast," unleashing powerful lightning-like bolts.
* Left Index Finger — "Flame Blast," a flamethrower-like gout of flame.
* Left Thumb — "White Light," a laser-like beam.
* Right Thumb — "Matter Rearranger," which can rearrange the atoms and molecules of a substance. The Mandarin usually uses this ring to change the shape of objects, such as causing a giant stone hand to erupt out of the earth and grapple a foe. He has, however, used it to transmute the molecular composition of objects, such as changing the air around a target into a poisonous gas.
* Right Index Finger — "Impact Beam," a blast of concussive or gravitational force.
* Right Middle Finger — "Vortex Beam," allows Mandarin to control air and wind, allowing him to fly.
* Right Ring Finger — "Disintegration Beam." Unlike the others, this Ring requires a twenty minute recharge time between firings.
* Right Pinkie — "Black Light," which can create areas of absolute blackness.
VS.
Ultron (YES HE'S MADE OF ADAMANTIUM SHUT UP ALREADY)
Powers:
* Superhuman strength, speed and durability
* Flight
* Energy blasts
* Force fields generation
* Hypnosis
* Genius-level intellect
Environment: Avengers Mansion, Pre-Disassembled
Bracket 26
Loki
Powers: Vast magical powers, typical superhuman attributes of Asgardian race such as extended longevity and superhuman strength, great intellect, shape-shifter
VS
Despero
Powers: Telepathy, Hypnotism, Psychokinesis, Teleportation, Superhuman strength and endurance, Genius-level intelligence
Environment: Mars.
Mandarin
Powers: Scientific genius and skilled martial artist. Ten alien rings.
* Left Pinkie — "Ice Blast," with which he could encase foes in bands of ice or create walls of ice to block pursuers.
* Left Ring Finger — "Mental-Intensifier," which amplifies the Mandarin's own mental energies and allows him to control the minds of others.
* Left Middle Finger — "Electro Blast," unleashing powerful lightning-like bolts.
* Left Index Finger — "Flame Blast," a flamethrower-like gout of flame.
* Left Thumb — "White Light," a laser-like beam.
* Right Thumb — "Matter Rearranger," which can rearrange the atoms and molecules of a substance. The Mandarin usually uses this ring to change the shape of objects, such as causing a giant stone hand to erupt out of the earth and grapple a foe. He has, however, used it to transmute the molecular composition of objects, such as changing the air around a target into a poisonous gas.
* Right Index Finger — "Impact Beam," a blast of concussive or gravitational force.
* Right Middle Finger — "Vortex Beam," allows Mandarin to control air and wind, allowing him to fly.
* Right Ring Finger — "Disintegration Beam." Unlike the others, this Ring requires a twenty minute recharge time between firings.
* Right Pinkie — "Black Light," which can create areas of absolute blackness.
VS.
Ultron (YES HE'S MADE OF ADAMANTIUM SHUT UP ALREADY)
Powers:
* Superhuman strength, speed and durability
* Flight
* Energy blasts
* Force fields generation
* Hypnosis
* Genius-level intellect
Environment: Avengers Mansion, Pre-Disassembled
Bracket 26
Loki
Powers: Vast magical powers, typical superhuman attributes of Asgardian race such as extended longevity and superhuman strength, great intellect, shape-shifter
VS
Despero
Powers: Telepathy, Hypnotism, Psychokinesis, Teleportation, Superhuman strength and endurance, Genius-level intelligence
Environment: Mars.
Doctor Doom on
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I might change Mandarin in for Ultron depending on just how effective his rings are against the big metal robot.
I don't really see any way for Loki to beat Despero though.
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Despero
I gotta hand it to the Trickster in the second, "vast magical powers" trumps 99% of anything anyone can do.
His reaction time is also far superior.
Ultron
uhhhhhh
Loki?
However, this Loki v Despero deal is insane. My instinct says the trickster could lead Despero on the longest manhunt in history. Can Despero die of old age? That may be the case before he can kill the Asgardian.
Loki because it's still a god versus an alien.
Also, I'm sure he has force fields for that type of thing these days.
That said, Ultron takes the first one. For coolness sake he hypnotises Mandarin and makes him blow his own head off with the disentigration beam.
And I give the second to Despero for home-field advantage (SPACE!) and I really want to see him and Ultron throw down.
Loki > Despero. Despero is badass sure, but Loki is a god, been around forever, blah,blah,blah, magic, etc.
The Loki/Despero fight is tough, but I'm not sure I can give it to Loki just because he's a God. They're fighting on Mars, and the lack of anything besides desolation is going to prevent Loki from using his manipulating abilities to his fullest extent; no native population to use and what-not. I am conditionally giving this to Despero, unless further information comes to light.
And no, Ultron doesn't have force fields these days. A device that rearranges atoms wouldn't worry too much about a force field anyways as it would change the molecules of the force field itself.
All you saying Ultron wins are homps.
Loki and Despero....yeah that's a tough one. I can't see any clear advantage for one over another. Despero is tough, but Loki is magic.
Actually, the Runaways couldn't beat him. Nico almost did but her best spell could barely hold him off. It took Ricochet, Turbo, and Darkhawk to take him out of commision.
Also, that hardly counts as that was Ultron's head on a bunch of scrap metal. He was hardly at his prime.
Which is not to say that The Mandarin has no chance. Just that the Ultron that was in Runaways was really, really weak.
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How well does that work on an Asgardian?
Wow. And it's not with DD's usual fighting sticks either. It's just a tree branch. Talk about degrading.
Ultron, while being a major powerhouse, is in for a major battle with Mandarin. I'll give this one Mandarin simply based on his experience and very villians ways of dispatching foes (Such as teleporting chinese guards to the moon, letting them die on the surface, then teleporting them back to china for proper burials by their families. badass.)
He can deal with armored foes, and dragons...and now, a robot.
As for Loki vs Despero...hmm..if it gets close all out brawl battle (which I dont think it will come to) then Despero, but otherwise trickery and such...Loki.
The main difference between 'Mandarin vs Iron Man' or 'Mandarin vs Ultron' is that he has made his quest against Tony a personal one and it really clouds his judgment. He much prefers to draw out the fight and enjoy it, against anyone else (such as ultron) he really would not care and just dispatch them as quickly as possible so he could get back to being evil. (Armor Wars 2 era mandarin was the perfect version, one badass cold mo'fo)
Trying to mind control Loki would be like trying to drown Namor. It's his "thing", I can't imagine it working against him too well.
As for the Ultron/Mandarin thing....I don't know, Ultron just seems a lot more durable. Ultron might be able to take two, even three shots from Mandarin's matter disruptor ring before breaking, but I can't see Mandarin's green bathrobe being able to stop even one of Ultron's blasts.
Man, that link led me to another blog that covers the bit in Acts of Vengeance! where Magneto creams the Red Skull. Such a great crossover. Also, not reading much Daredevil at the time I had no clue Doom picked his car-keys out of the hero-swapping goldfish bowl all the villains passed around, but finding out that he sends Ultron out to waste Murdock makes me love Doom ten times as much. Doom does not half time for half-measures with this blind fool. Bring me the genocidal death-robot!
Uh, Ultron and Loki to win.
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Eventually Loki and Despero will have to actually fight, and when that happens I do not see any way for Loki to actually win. His blows won't hit hard enough to do anything to Despero, olol trickery doesn't work so well in a fight only in setting up the fight and I think Despero would be able to handle the vast magical powers just fine seeing as how he can handle the JLA mystics fine.
And Loki posessed Odin's body for a few months, so what would keep him from doing that to Despero?...I think this fight/debate is going to stay a lot cleaner if we leave that kind of crap out of it.
I don't know, I just have a hard time believing that Despero has more raw power than Thor, who Loki's held his own against before with magical shielding and whatnot.
Well, he's stronger than Superman who has beat Thor. So I'd say he is stronger than Thor.
He did take over Asgard, though, and only lost because he had become disillusioned with conquest and, upon seeing Thor had broken free of his prison, tried to reason with him instead of resisting.
Cause, if it disintegrates a unit as a whole, no matter where it hits, then why isn't this seen as a win button? I think disintegration rays go through sheilds. At least I'd think they would.
It's not as though leading an army is any small feat, least of all one that takes Asgard, and it's more than Despero has ever done.
Oh Jesus, Loki is definitely sticking something in that eye. A sprig of mistletoe, maybe? Norse Mythology= win.
Well then his publicity team should get on that. That's false advertising, that is.
He took over an entire planet through psychic oppression. One man took over an entire planet vs an army beating an army of about equal size or power. And leading an army, while not a small feat, is also something that many people have done and is really kinda easy to do when all the people you are leading want to fight the people you're fighting anyways and all you have to do is provide them the means of getting to the location where the people they want to destroy are.