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The Avengers! or why a Justice League film can't succeed!

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    King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Fun fact, the recent Marvel live action movies officially take place on Earth-199999. Stare into the eyes of madness, my friends.

    I don't understand what kind of point you think you're making here

    Basically, that trying to force everything into a strict continuity instead of just admitting it's all kind of fluid and ad hoc can result in a huge clusterfuck. Did you click the link I posted?

    God only knows what's still canon in the DC comics universe nowadays for instance, but one of the things they did right was just making the change and not trying to justify it with some in-universe event...

    DC has reset their continuity like four times. Twice in fact in the past five years .

    Each time with a huge event.

    none of this has anything to do with the marvel Multiverse which is a completely different thing from continutiy.
    So uh what the hell are you talking about?

    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
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    Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    i think the dude was making a shit joke

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I am honestly surprised that DC kept using the Crisis moniker for so long to describe their events.

    Since it basically has always been code to me for "GIANT. STUPID. CLUSTERFUCK."

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    WeaverWeaver Who are you? What do you want?Registered User regular
    Take a moment, to imagine-

    Heroes Reborn 2

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    TrippyJingTrippyJing Moses supposes his toeses are roses. But Moses supposes erroneously.Registered User regular
    For a minute, I was all who the hell is Chia?

    b1ehrMM.gif
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    PaperLuigi44PaperLuigi44 My amazement is at maximum capacity. Registered User regular
    GG I have been catching up on this thread and I dig this James Bond idea a lot.

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    King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Weaver wrote: »
    Take a moment, to imagine-

    Heroes Reborn 2

    I appreciate that Marvel realized there was no reason to ever do that again. Just update origins every so often and a dash of Mephistopheles

    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Speaking of dem comic books, I just read through Civil War, and while I definitely see the fairly big problems with it, the premise and some of the small touches were fantastic.

    I didn't think it was so bad either, when I first read it.

    But then you read comics before and after, and you realise how many of the characters in it are massively changed just to make the story work.

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    autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Bedigunz wrote: »
    Part of me hopes that
    Thor's hammer on Cap's shield and Thor's lightening supercharging Tony will be included on the deleted scenes

    Actually I'm somewhat praying for it
    But that was in the movie, why would it be in the deleted scenes ..?

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Bedigunz wrote: »
    Part of me hopes that
    Thor's hammer on Cap's shield and Thor's lightening supercharging Tony will be included on the deleted scenes

    Actually I'm somewhat praying for it
    But that was in the movie, why would it be in the deleted scenes ..?
    I think he means re-using those during the final fight

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    I like how on the Marvel Wiki, real-life people are marked as "Stan Lee (Earth-1218)"

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Yeah, that is pretty fun

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    QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    Before this thread closes, I want to say that I really liked this movie

    It was my first time in a theater since Thor

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    I really wanted to make a "first time" and "Thor" joke

    but then I remember by avatar is Thor and that would be super-creepy

    consider yourselves spared, SE++'ers

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    I have an admission to make, this isn't easy mind you...

    *sigh*

    I enjoyed the Punisher with Dolph Lundgren.

    So did I. It's the best Punisher movie IMO. Marvel needs to get that on dvd.



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    Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    so Thor is wandering around Mount Olympus the morning after an orgy

    he comes across this nymph, and he says to her, "hey, baby, i'm Thor"

    and the nymph says, "you're Thor?"

    "i'm tho thor i can hardly pith"

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    ho ho ho

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    WeaverWeaver Who are you? What do you want?Registered User regular
    Why is Thor hanging out with those Greek pussies?

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    CrackedLensCrackedLens Registered User regular
    Weaver wrote: »
    Why is Thor hanging out with those Greek pussies?

    I think you answered your own question

    XBoxLive Gamertag: ZombieKyle Secret Satan Wishlist
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    WeaverWeaver Who are you? What do you want?Registered User regular
    That's the joke.

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular

    I do not like this whole idea. If you felt you couldn't make a good movie within the current continuity you should make a reboot. Otherwise you should abide by the events established in continuity. One or two mistakes in continuity is fine but a wanton disregard for what happened before hurts my suspension of disbelief and makes me enjoy the whole thing.

    Agreed.

    You guys should, like, never read any mainstream superhero comics. Ever. Your heads would explode. I mean, is this the same guy who experienced this at some point? I don't fucking know! No one really does! (Take my advice, if anyone starts to say the word "crisis" around you, you punch them in the mouth immediately to preserve your own sanity)

    I'm fine with loose continuity if it makes for a better story. Especially when you're dealing with things like prequels and not direct sequels.

    The first Crisis did make sense. Loose continuity is fine, but DC and Marvel have done poorly keeping even that logical. They reached new levels in bad continuity with their One More day and post-Flashpoint continuities.
    TrippyJing wrote: »
    It's like nobody even read what I wrote. I am not complaining about a few fucking continuity errors. I am complaining that they hamstrung them selves in the dumbest possible way. They reverently held to certain elements of the old movies(What prevented any of the traditional ones from showing) when it hurt their story but completely ignored continuity when it would have improved the story.

    I am not saying they should have obeyed continuity even if it would make a worse story. I am saying trying to play it both ways hurt the movie. That it made it worse by both denying it good moments and good characters.

    I am fucking saying they should have ignored the whole thing and started fresh

    And I'm saying that doing it halfway and just carrying over the elements they want to keep is fine, and they've been doing it that way de facto in comics for like half a century.

    Comics tend to try and explain it away or explicitly retcon things though.

    Yeah, and it's not like that's just made things more muddled, or anything...

    Look, continuity is whatever the writers and editors of that particular story want it to be, and always has been, whatever pretentions to consistency they may try to make stabs at.

    That's not loose continuity, that's no continuity at all. That shit should have died in the Golden and Silver Ages.

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    Wandering IdiotWandering Idiot Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    i know i'm a little late here, but did this guy seriously just waltz into the superhero comics thread and tell us that if we really want our minds blown we should read some of those superhero comics?

    I was being facetious because people were whining about being unable to enjoy comicbook movies because of imperfect continuities. And I wanted to post Batman being turned into a Flatlander by a rainbow monster.

    It was my impression that DC didn't have a story justification for the new 52 thing, if I was wrong... I don't really care. Like, the amounts of not caring I have are massive.

    Wandering Idiot on
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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    the rainbow creature turns up briefly in grant morrison's batman

    it is never explained

    I thought it was shown in the bit where they're talking about how Batman used to do loads of acid in order to better understand insanity

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    The best Grant Morrison Batman story (well, they are pretty much all great, but this one stands out for me)

    is the Batman of Zur-En-Arrh

    Batman is so well prepared, he creates a back-up personality in his own consciousness which, should he snap due to the mind fuckery of whoever/the stress of being Batman/Catwoman not putting out again, will take over and defeat his enemies, leading to a restoration of regular Bruce Wayne's mind.

    That is so fucking cool!

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    Skull ManSkull Man RIP KUSU Registered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Skull Man wrote: »
    who was that sexy blonde chick in die another day

    she was slammin

    Rosamund Pike?

    yess

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    Skull ManSkull Man RIP KUSU Registered User regular
    seriously I really enjoyed this movie
    the aliens were kind of boring and samey but that was the whole point! kept the focus nice and tight on the heroes

    just a rolicking good time and they made me believe black widow can be cool, something iron man 2 had all but made impossible

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Skull Man wrote: »
    seriously I really enjoyed this movie
    the aliens were kind of boring and samey but that was the whole point! kept the focus nice and tight on the heroes

    just a rolicking good time and they made me believe black widow can be cool, something iron man 2 had all but made impossible

    She's cool on Earth's Mightiest Heroes and Brubaker's Captain America.
    A truly great character, I don't get how Favreau screwed that up so badly on Iron Man 2.

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    Skull ManSkull Man RIP KUSU Registered User regular
    don't you get it HD

    sexy super-spies should be just boring as hell and have zero personality

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    DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    cross title continuity is dumb, unless it is explicitly a cross-over
    i don't think anyone worth paying attention to real cares about reconciling every appearance of every character with the appearance of every other character.

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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    cross title continuity is dumb, unless it is explicitly a cross-over
    i don't think anyone worth paying attention to real cares about reconciling every appearance of every character with the appearance of every other character.

    You mean like Wolverine?

    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Although that one issue of Wolverine about him being on five different superteams at the same time is pretty good.

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    cross title continuity is dumb, unless it is explicitly a cross-over
    i don't think anyone worth paying attention to real cares about reconciling every appearance of every character with the appearance of every other character.

    It helps. I don't expect fans to care that much, but creators & editors? That should be a priority.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    cross title continuity is dumb, unless it is explicitly a cross-over
    i don't think anyone worth paying attention to real cares about reconciling every appearance of every character with the appearance of every other character.
    Cross-title continuity is cool

    but not if it is taken to the extreme where OKAY WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WOLVERINE CAN BE IN EVERY TEAM BOOK THIS WEEK CHART OUT HIS SCHEDULE

    but if, like, Iron Man died or something having him show up in Fantastic Four a month after his death would be dumb.

    Continuity is really cool and is one of my favorite things about comics and their shared universes, but the story should always come first within reason.

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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    cross title continuity is dumb, unless it is explicitly a cross-over
    i don't think anyone worth paying attention to real cares about reconciling every appearance of every character with the appearance of every other character.
    Cross-title continuity is cool

    but not if it is taken to the extreme where OKAY WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WOLVERINE CAN BE IN EVERY TEAM BOOK THIS WEEK CHART OUT HIS SCHEDULE

    but if, like, Iron Man died or something having him show up in Fantastic Four a month after his death would be dumb.

    Continuity is really cool and is one of my favorite things about comics and their shared universes, but the story should always come first within reason.

    Yeah with the additional caveat CD mentioned of them intentionally sticking to cross-title continuity to a ridiculous extreme for the sole reason of making fun of the matter.

    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
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    EtchwartsEtchwarts Eyes Up Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Speaking of dem comic books, I just read through Civil War, and while I definitely see the fairly big problems with it, the premise and some of the small touches were fantastic.

    I didn't think it was so bad either, when I first read it.

    But then you read comics before and after, and you realise how many of the characters in it are massively changed just to make the story work.

    Oh, yeah, like I said, HUGE problems.

    It also had an incredibly lackluster resolution.

    "Oh wait guys, superheroes cause property damage. Since when has this happened?"

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    Skull ManSkull Man RIP KUSU Registered User regular
    the only part of civil war I really liked was ben grimm being like fuck this bullshit I'm going to france

    and then there was just a bad guy to fight and he was so happy that he has tears in his eyes as he beat the guy senseless

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Solar wrote: »
    Speaking of dem comic books, I just read through Civil War, and while I definitely see the fairly big problems with it, the premise and some of the small touches were fantastic.

    I didn't think it was so bad either, when I first read it.

    But then you read comics before and after, and you realise how many of the characters in it are massively changed just to make the story work.

    Oh, yeah, like I said, HUGE problems.

    It also had an incredibly lackluster resolution.

    "Oh wait guys, superheroes cause property damage. Since when has this happened?"

    Marvel has done a good job occasionally dealing the fallout from that. IIRC in Kevin Smith's Daredevil Murdock was responsible for creating a law that was effectively super-hero insurance and they had Damage Control. When the Hulk exists it makes sense that insurance companies notice then react accordingly.

    Harry Dresden on
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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Skull Man wrote: »
    the only part of civil war I really liked was ben grimm being like fuck this bullshit I'm going to france

    and then there was just a bad guy to fight and he was so happy that he has tears in his eyes as he beat the guy senseless
    Yuuuuuuuup

    Ben Grimm is the most rational, awesome person in the Marvel Universe

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    EtchwartsEtchwarts Eyes Up Registered User regular
    I must have missed that with Ben Grimm. I just read the "core" issues.


    The bit with Sue leaving Reed was appropriately sad, though. That was one of those little touches I liked. They did a good job with some of those.

    And superhero insurance definitely sounds like a good idea. I'm just referring to Cap's motivations for giving up.


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    Skull ManSkull Man RIP KUSU Registered User regular
    my biggest beef with it was that it had this really hammy gravitas like the whole thing hasn't essentially happened a thousand times before

This discussion has been closed.