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Tipping/Gratuity Culture
joshofalltrades
Class TraitorSmoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
Class TraitorSmoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
If you're not American this thread is going to be super confusing to you, but I invite you to participate anyway! Your perspective and experience will be super helpful.
Tipping is a sum of money, paid over and above the cost of a good or service, specifically intended to go to the employee(s) serving you. There is no rule about how much or how little one can tip their server(s). It can be given in cash (typically either stuffed into a jar on a countertop or left on a table as one is leaving a restaurant) or paid at the point of sale by adding the amount to the credit card receipt.
Lately the practice has become... different? Tipping has historically been done at a limited subset of services. Restaurants would remind you to tip your servers. Valet parking would be another place you might expect to tip someone, or if you have a lot of luggage and need hotel staff to help you up to your room, you would probably give them a gratuity for their assistance. Coffee shops also typically have some kind of cup to leave a tip in, usually with some kind of amusing saying hand-written on it; in this kind of scenario, the tip is a "pool" and you aren't giving money directly to your server, it's split at the end of a shift between all the floor staff.
But nowadays, at least here in the States, you get a tipping prompt at many, many more interactions. Recently I had my vehicle repaired and was prompted to tip my mechanic after swiping my card, as an example. Some retail shops will also prompt you to tip the salesperson.
On top of this, the usual expectation for a minimum tip was ~15% of the total on your receipt. When I was growing up, that was the guideline. 15% for average service, more than that if the service was good, less if it was bad in some exceptional way. I've heard now that this expectation has increased in at least some areas to 20-25%.
Let's just get my personal opinion out of the way here. Tipping culture is a relic of a bygone time when workers were exploited and the expense of hiring staff was pushed off onto consumers. Other countries manage to pay their service staff a decent wage without going out of business. In fact, in some places, an American tourist trying to tip their servers is seen as insulting.
But there are other reasons to want to get past tipping as a country. For one, it's a highly discriminatory practice; studies show that black servers are tipped less than their white counterparts. And that's to say nothing of the sexism at the root of it all; "attractive" women get higher tips than "unattractive" women, along with both groups receiving unwanted attention in different ways.
For another, the tipped subminimum wage is only $2.13 an hour, and has stayed there since 1991. Now, some states/businesses pay more than that, but if you're a server in Texas? You probably get that much or close to it.
Now, one thing I'm not saying here is "everybody stop tipping". Unless and until we move past this as a nation and start forcing businesses to pay a fair wage, tip your goddamn servers. But we need to talk about both the practice itself (and its roots in racism/sexism) and its creeping expansion into other service industries. Is it okay to put a tipping prompt at the point of sale for every service interaction? Where's the line? How much should we be expected to pay in these instances? And why shouldn't businesses, especially businesses that are making record profits, simply pay their staff a living wage in the first place? Is this just too ingrained in our culture to get past?
Tipping is a sum of money, paid over and above the cost of a good or service, specifically intended to go to the employee(s) serving you. There is no rule about how much or how little one can tip their server(s). It can be given in cash (typically either stuffed into a jar on a countertop or left on a table as one is leaving a restaurant) or paid at the point of sale by adding the amount to the credit card receipt.
Lately the practice has become... different? Tipping has historically been done at a limited subset of services. Restaurants would remind you to tip your servers. Valet parking would be another place you might expect to tip someone, or if you have a lot of luggage and need hotel staff to help you up to your room, you would probably give them a gratuity for their assistance. Coffee shops also typically have some kind of cup to leave a tip in, usually with some kind of amusing saying hand-written on it; in this kind of scenario, the tip is a "pool" and you aren't giving money directly to your server, it's split at the end of a shift between all the floor staff.
But nowadays, at least here in the States, you get a tipping prompt at many, many more interactions. Recently I had my vehicle repaired and was prompted to tip my mechanic after swiping my card, as an example. Some retail shops will also prompt you to tip the salesperson.
On top of this, the usual expectation for a minimum tip was ~15% of the total on your receipt. When I was growing up, that was the guideline. 15% for average service, more than that if the service was good, less if it was bad in some exceptional way. I've heard now that this expectation has increased in at least some areas to 20-25%.
Let's just get my personal opinion out of the way here. Tipping culture is a relic of a bygone time when workers were exploited and the expense of hiring staff was pushed off onto consumers. Other countries manage to pay their service staff a decent wage without going out of business. In fact, in some places, an American tourist trying to tip their servers is seen as insulting.
But there are other reasons to want to get past tipping as a country. For one, it's a highly discriminatory practice; studies show that black servers are tipped less than their white counterparts. And that's to say nothing of the sexism at the root of it all; "attractive" women get higher tips than "unattractive" women, along with both groups receiving unwanted attention in different ways.
For another, the tipped subminimum wage is only $2.13 an hour, and has stayed there since 1991. Now, some states/businesses pay more than that, but if you're a server in Texas? You probably get that much or close to it.
Now, one thing I'm not saying here is "everybody stop tipping". Unless and until we move past this as a nation and start forcing businesses to pay a fair wage, tip your goddamn servers. But we need to talk about both the practice itself (and its roots in racism/sexism) and its creeping expansion into other service industries. Is it okay to put a tipping prompt at the point of sale for every service interaction? Where's the line? How much should we be expected to pay in these instances? And why shouldn't businesses, especially businesses that are making record profits, simply pay their staff a living wage in the first place? Is this just too ingrained in our culture to get past?
ElJeffe on
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I have a bunch of bartender and waiter friends so I always give at least 20% tip unless they are super garbage at their job. And even then I still tip because I know the pay isn't there. But outside of servers and barbers/hairdressers I don't really feel the need to tip anybody unless I want to give them extra cash because they are legitimately great at their job. But most places that aren't built on paying their employees less are pretty tough on not tipping employees. As much as I like Publix they make it pretty obvious you shouldn't tip the baggers even if they're taking your groceries out which can be pretty terrible in Florida weather.
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My understanding of American barbarity is that service staff get paid less that minimum wage with the expectation to compensate in tips. The actual cost of the meal is still the cost of the meal. Any price adjustment would be equal to what you tip because, without tip, you're just starving someone to eat yourselves.
Anyways I'm in the UK as a kitchen porter: All the tips of a shift get split evenly while I make minimum wage and I get about like, £40 a month from it or £75 if I served on the more hectic shifts.
Tipping culture seems a perfectly fine human interaction until exposed to scorching hot capitalism trying to optimize "I would like to give the staff a tenner for being cool this evening,"
The problem is many restaurants and bars do a tip pool so everyone makes the same tips (terrible system) or the servers are expected to also tip out cooks, bussers, dishwashers etc sometimes
The entire system is really weird and backwards and lot of shady stuff happens to service industry folks in every position. Tipping needs to go, because it's a trick to make you work harder for the chance at more money
Also, it showing everyone is a symptom of it being a default option on square and other phone/tablet pay programs that I assume places are just taking adventage of when it happens. I will give any place that isn't a restaurant or similar service a hard side-eye if they solicit for those.
Tipping is an archaic practice used to justify not paying workers out of the company's pocket and instead turn it over to the whims and guilty consciences of customers. We need to kill the practice and implement stronger wage laws.
The kind of person that orders a luxury like pizza but then claim they can't afford a tip is just the worst kind of insufferable goose.
Sure. The problem is when the cooks and other workers are making a better wage, and then getting tips on top (tips that should go to the servers who get paid like shit per hour)
This isn't a tipping issue it's an America loves cyberpunk larp issue.
Like ultimately my whole take on tipping is just: Yeah, rich folk get better service so folk get better money. I'd be lying if I said that wasn't how I prioritized clients for my erotica stuff. It's fucking weird that America has made that basic fact of how economics works into life and death wages issues for service staff.
Problem is the power dynamics involved as well; having worked in many bars, I've seen rich men pressure young women into drinking with them, doing shots, etc with a big tip on the line. One girl was tipped 1000 dollars to sit by a guy and take shots with them all night. She went home throwing up but later said she didn't regret it because it paid her rent in one single night.
We once got a manager that got angry we weren't sharing tips with him like we did with the regular min wage cooks and... He was terrible for several reasons but that's the one I remember after all these years.
I mean at that point you're way past the pail of tipping culture in the UK and are just trying to hire a whore.
Which is basically just tipping in general: The service is already there, you pay for food and drink, you get food and drink. Tipping is theoretically an extra bribe.
And I'm a mercenary shite who'd jump for ten bucks but it's gross as a base eco system for the job.
No job is free of some rich loser walking in and waving green around to break contract and decency. Tipping culture lets 'em do it under socially acceptable terms.
The reasons are self-explanatory (a lot of our business practice was influenced by Japan unsurprisingly, and there is no separate minimum wage for the service or restaurant industry). I haven't had much exposure to it (I live abroad as an expatriate and seldom go home), but apparently it's gradually become acceptable solely in the venue of international hotels (particularly those catering towards American visitors). Given that Americans are sometimes hired in those capacities, I suppose that makes sense (they still have to be paid a legal wage, but wages are comparatively low in Taiwan, not in the least because living expenses, food, and utilities are all heavily subsidized by the state). I really, really don't want the practice to gain acceptance anywhere else (I should add, service charges at some restaurants have slowly become a thing in the last few decades, but I still would prefer those to having to tip).
Actually having to pass someone a tip--like at a car wash--is incredibly awkward and anxiety-inducing and I hate it.
It made things a lot easier.
This brings up another problem. How do you get people at actually stop tipping? Changing wage laws isn't going to remove the social pressure.
Yeah like was said a few posts above, conceptually tipping extra is fine; it's when it's used as an excuse to pay people like shit that it becomes a problem. Tips should be a generosity thing, not a way for businesses to pay their employees nothing and pass that onto the customer who can then decide to not tip at all should they feel like it
https://does.dc.gov/service/office-wage-hour-compliance-0
Including tips, bussers generally make less than servers. They get tipped out because they can't survive on minimum wage.
Paying a mandatory fee so the staff don't starve but technically it's optional: Dystopian.
It is my understanding that all servers must get the minimum wage after tips, if their tips do not bring them up to minimum wage they have to be paid more
The minimum wage being almost half the amount you have to make to afford a cheap 1 bedroom apartment in most of the US
To me it's less being grateful for a particular level of service and more just being grateful you are there at all and that you tried to do the work.
I do not really have an opinion about if it's actually a good system or not from an economic / social perspective. I can't imagine how anything would work without it, especially pizza, but I have barely been outside the country so there's a lot about life in foreign countries I can't imagine.
Its part of the first step.
You have to eliminate the tiered system for pay.
And then work on the system on the cultural side.
Otherwise you just fuck those on the tiered system because they will get fucked by it.
I mean at this point it's factored into both the industry and individual margins.
If you can click a magic wand where people get a 20% raise and you don't have to tip 20% then sure, actually changing practice has more friction.
1) services where going above should be rewarded and/or I know they aren’t making at least minimum wage, to say nothing about a livable wage (server, haircut, etc.)
2) jobs where someone is doing a job for me that would just suck to do myself (I’m getting ready to move so movers come to mind as well as food delivery)
It seems anymore everything is expecting a tip though. I order food for pickup, go in an get it myself, totaling 30 seconds of interaction with an employee and need to tip them for a service that didn’t actually happen?
My fiancé and I were reading yesterday that we are apparently supposed to tip our wedding planner. This is someone who runs their own business, and is providing a service that we are paying thousands for (well above a livable wage when you do the pay per hour breakdown). I’m supposed to tip 20% on top of that?
See I disagree with a 5% minimum. I've gotten service before where I'm actually being actively ignored or insulted, and the worst I've ever done is left a penny. If you leave no tip they could rationalize it as "he just forgot", but if there's a penny they know I remembered, and they sucked. I've only ever done this twice in my lifetime, and only after consulting (or attempting to consult) with management about the poor service and getting similar treatment.
But the thing is, I should never have to be put in this position! Even in those cases where I'm still being actively treated like crap, I still feel guilty about tipping this way, even though it's clearly their own fault for shitting on me. Just pay people a fair wage and if I have a super bad experience I can just resolve myself never to go back there. The current system where I have to reward somebody for doing a shite job and being a jerk to me or else feel like a bad person sucks.
My understanding is that plenty of wage theft happens with that though and good luck actually getting paid that minimum wage.
I started tipping restaurant staff more during COVID - they were literally putting their health, if not their life, on the line. It's increasingly common for POS machines to default to 20% and occasionally I see even more which just causes me change it to below 15% because of the pure exploitation of the whole thing.
Higher minimum wage is good but attacking the way folks can make bougie people pay them twice their rate isn't praxis.
Yes. Let's look at the rest of the US.
Here is the first problem. Great for Cali. Great for DC in 4 years. Great for Washington state.
But the US isn't a single state. The real answer is a flat minimum for all workers at a national level.
And then along with that a national shift through campaigns and possible banning of tipping to get rid of it.
Sadly it isn't a "just stop tipping they get minimum wage anyway" answer.
Like many things it a national collective action problem.
So it will probably limp along till a national shift occurs.